IAR 80/81 (And Other Romanian Unit) Airfield Research for Stalingrad and Kuban

[LukeFF]

Hey all,

 

I'm starting to collect research on the airfields needed for the IAR 80/81 units for career mode. What I need is confirmation, correction, and completion of the data I've acquired so far. With that in mind:

 

Stalingrad:

 

Grupul 6 BoPi:

 

Tusov: 7 September 1942

Morozovskaya: 6 October 1942

Tatsinskaya: 23 December 1942

Rostov (off-map): 2 January 1943

 

Grupul 8 Vânătoare:

 

Tusov: 7 September 1942

Morozovskaya: 3 October 1942

Rostov (off-map): 21 December 1942

 

Kuban:

 

Grupul 3 Vânătoare:

 

Yevpatoria (Crimea): October 1942 - 30 April 1943

 

Grupul 4 Vânătoare:

 

Yevpatoria (Crimea): 30 April 1943 - 9 April 1944

 

As you can see, I need some clarification about where and when these units were located. 

 

Thanks!

Edited September 23, 2022 by LukeFF

[Jaws2002]

The 6th FG moved from Tusov to Morozovka on  October 6th 1942.

 

 

other interesting thing I found about the Stalingrad campaign... 

8th FG had a mix of IAR-80A's and 80B's at Tusov, and when  8th returned west, part of the aircraft were transferred to the 6th FG on December 9th. so 6th FG had iar 81's and 8th FG had 80A's and 80B's. until December 9th. From Dec. 9th, only 6th FG remained at Stalingrad and half the unit had IAR81's and the other half had a mix of IAR-80A's and IAR80B's.

 

https://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/g6vt.htm

quote:

"Because of the fact that the number of serviceable aircraft had declined drastically, the 6th Fighter Group was reorganized with material transferred from the 8th Fighter Group, which left on 9 December. The 61st Fighter Squadron received IAR-80A & Bs, while all the IAR-81s were amassed in the 62nd."

 

"On 20 December, the group enjoyed some considerable success. At 0830 8 IAR-80s took off on an escort mission for Romanian JRS-79Bs which were supposed to attack Bukovsky. At 0900 the formation was attacked by 5 Yaks. Two minutes later another four Yaks joined the dogfight. However, two Soviet fighters were shot down by slt. av. Baciu and by adj. av. Cocebas. At 0915 another 3 Yaks attacked and adj. av. Cocebas bagged his second victory that day. But they spotted two Il-4s, unescorted and slt. Baciu attacked, claiming one of them. However, it was not confirmed and it remained only a probable kill. Later that day, during another escort mission, 7 IAR-80Bs clashed with 7 Yak-1s, each side losing one aircraft."

Will look at the rest of the list.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

The 6th FG moved from Tusov to Morozovka on  October 6th 1942.

 

 

other interesting thing I found about the Stalingrad campaign... 

8th FG had a mix of IAR-80A's and 80B's at Tusov, and when  8th returned west, part of the aircraft were transferred to the 6th FG on December 9th. so 6th FG had iar 81's and 8th FG had 80A's and 80B's. until December 9th. From Dec. 9th, only 6th FG remained at Stalingrad and half the unit had IAR81's and the other half had a mix of IAR-80A's and IAR80B's.

 

https://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/g6vt.htm

quote:

"Because of the fact that the number of serviceable aircraft had declined drastically, the 6th Fighter Group was reorganized with material transferred from the 8th Fighter Group, which left on 9 December. The 61st Fighter Squadron received IAR-80A & Bs, while all the IAR-81s were amassed in the 62nd."

 

"On 20 December, the group enjoyed some considerable success. At 0830 8 IAR-80s took off on an escort mission for Romanian JRS-79Bs which were supposed to attack Bukovsky. At 0900 the formation was attacked by 5 Yaks. Two minutes later another four Yaks joined the dogfight. However, two Soviet fighters were shot down by slt. av. Baciu and by adj. av. Cocebas. At 0915 another 3 Yaks attacked and adj. av. Cocebas bagged his second victory that day. But they spotted two Il-4s, unescorted and slt. Baciu attacked, claiming one of them. However, it was not confirmed and it remained only a probable kill. Later that day, during another escort mission, 7 IAR-80Bs clashed with 7 Yak-1s, each side losing one aircraft."

 

Great, thank you for this!

 

The timeline in the narrative for the 8th Fighter Group seems a bit strange to me - it says they left on 9 December on the 6th FG's page, but on this page it says they moved to Bakonskaya on the 8th of November and then to Rostov on the 21st of December. Is all of that correct?

[Jaws2002]

For the Kuban map. the 49th squadron, that was part of the 4t FG and later after reorganization 3rd FG, started patrols and combat from Yevpatoria, in Crimea on May 25th 1943  I think and was on the front with IAR-80C and later 81C, until April 9th, 1944, when they were pulled back to convert to BF-109's.

Arrival in Crimea:

 

The move to Saki happened sometime in October.

 

Departing Saki and returning to Romania to switch to BF109's:

 

 

33 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Great, thank you for this!

 

The timeline in the narrative for the 8th Fighter Group seems a bit strange to me - it says they left on 9 December on the 6th FG's page, but on this page it says they moved to Bakonskaya on the 8th of November and then to Rostov on the 21st of December. Is all of that correct?

 

Yes. I noticed that there are discrepancies. I'll look tomorrow for the 8th FG in this French book I have.... Probably I'll get completely different dates, once again.? 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

For the Kuban map. the 49th squadron, that was part of the 4t FG and later after reorganization 3rd FG, started patrols and combat from Yevpatoria, in Crimea on May 25th 1943  I think and was on the front with IAR-80C and later 81C, until April 9th, 1944, when they were pulled back to convert to BF-109's.

Arrival in Crimea:

 

Departing Saki and returning to Romania to switch to BF109's:

 

 

 

Yes. I noticed that there are discrepancies. I'll look tomorrow for the 8th FG in this French book I have.

 

Perfect, thank you again.

 

So, it looks like Grupul 6 and Grupul 4 are good to go at this point; it's just confirming the timeline for Grupul 8 and Grupul 3. I'm guessing Grupul 3 (aka, Esc. 43) remained in the Crimea until Grupul 4 replaced them?

 

Also, are all the unit names correct?

Edited September 20, 2022 by LukeFF

[Juri_JS]

Henry L. deZeng in his compilation of Luftwaffe airfields  has 45th Fighter Squadron at Kerch, beginning in November 1942. No idea how accurate this information is. It's possible that Kerch was just used as temporary forward airfield.

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Yes. I noticed that there are discrepancies. I'll look tomorrow for the 8th FG in this French book I have.... Probably I'll get completely different dates, once again.? 

 

I thought about this some more - what might have happened is that while the 60th Squadron moved to Bakonskaya on November 8, the remainder of the 8th FG remained elsewhere (Tusov?) until it was withdrawn from the front on December 9.

 

But, that's just a guess at this point. ?

[Alexmarine]

Don't mind me, just hoping that Luke gathering info for the career means that the IAR is getting closer and closer to release 

[Jaws2002]

About the 8th FG at Stalingrad.

 

The unit arrived at Stalingrad with three squadrons: Escadrila 41, escadrila 42 and escadrila 60. 

On the evening of October 1st 8th FG received an order to return from the front to have the engines replaced on their planes.  But looks like only Escadrila 42 and Escadrila 60 retreated to airfields behind the front for the engine overhaul. The overhaul was done in Crimea and after that they fought in different parts of the front, not at Stalingrad.

Escadrila 41 moved on  Morozovskaya airfield  and and kept fighting on the Stalingrad front. Six planes moved to Morozovskaya on 3rd October, followed by the rest of the planes on 6th of October. The 41st was on the Stalingrad front until 6th FG left.

 

Arrival at stalingrad:

 

Departure of 42nd FS and 60 FS to have engine changed, and 41FS going to Morozovskaya:

 

Order for 8th FG to return for engine replacement (last paragraph):

 

41st receives same order, but goes to Morozovskaya instead.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

About the 8th FG at Stalingrad.

 

The unit arrived at Stalingrad with three squadrons: Escadrila 41, escadrila 42 and escadrila 60. 

On the evening of October 1st 8th FG received an order to return from the front to have the engines replaced on their planes.  But looks like only Escadrila 42 and Escadrila 60 retreated to airfields behind the front for the engine overhaul. The overhaul was done in Crimea and after that they fought in different parts of the front, not at Stalingrad.

Escadrila 41 moved on  Morozovskaya airfield  and and kept fighting on the Stalingrad front. Six planes moved to Morozovskaya on 3rd October, followed by the rest of the planes on 6th of October. The 41st was on the Stalingrad front until 6th FG left.

 

Arrival at stalingrad:

 

Departure of 42nd FS and 60 FS to have engine changed, and 41FS going to Morozovskaya:

 

Order for 8th FG to return for engine replacement (last paragraph):

 

41st receives same order, but goes to Morozovskaya instead.

 

Excellent! I was just about to say that I think Grupul 8 should be stationed at Morozovsk like Grupul 6, because Bergstrom mentions in BC/RS Volume 4 in a number of places how the Romanian GAL was based at that airfield and Tatsinskaya at this time. I'll update the tables accordingly.

 

EDIT: so, the last one I think I need confirmation on is Grupul 3: when exactly did they leave the Crimea? I imagine those dates overlapped somewhat with Grupul 4 taking over the responsibility of covering the Black Sea convoys.

Edited September 21, 2022 by LukeFF

[Jaws2002]

I didn't have too much time today. I'll look into it tomorrow. This book is pretty good, but it's such a loss it was not translated in English. I didn't take with me the Romanian version, when I moved to Canada and I only have the French version here. My French is bad and rusty, so it takes quite a while to figure it out.

 

  vthis is the book:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/books/iar-80-dan-antoniu-george-cico--110637

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

58 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

I didn't have too much time today. I'll look into it tomorrow. This book is pretty good, but it's such a loss it was not translated in English. I didn't take with me the Romanian version, when I moved to Canada and I only have the French version here. My French is bad and rusty, so it takes quite a while to figure it out.

 

  vthis is the book:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/books/iar-80-dan-antoniu-george-cico--110637

 

Cool! No problem. ?? I might have to pick it up that book anyways. Google Translate works great with photographs of book pages. It's how I was able to extract so much info from Jan Horn's book on KG 51 - take a photo, copy the text that the phone picked out, and then run it through a translator. It works stunningly good. 

[Jaws2002]

That's interesting. I didn't know you can do that. I thought you had to convert to .pdf to try to translate.

 

Thanks for the tip. 

 

Hope you can find a copy. It took me about three years to find one. They made so few that 3 weeks after releases they were all gone.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jaws2002

[Juri_JS]

Did one of you guys find any info on Esc. 43? "In the Skies of Europe" by Hans Werner Neulen mentions that it fought over the Kuban bridgehead, but doesn't say which base was used.

[LukeFF]

31 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Did one of you guys find any info on Esc. 43? "In the Skies of Europe" by Hans Werner Neulen mentions that it fought over the Kuban bridgehead, but doesn't say which base was used.

 

There's a paragraph in one of the last chapters of Black Cross/Red Star Volume 4 (on page 278) that says Esc. 43 was sent to Yevpatoria around February 1943. I have not seen anything else beyond that.

[Juri_JS]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

There's a paragraph in one of the last chapters of Black Cross/Red Star Volume 4 (on page 278) that says Esc. 43 was sent to Yevpatoria around February 1943. I have not seen anything else beyond that.

Yevpatoria would be too far away for operations over the Kuban bridgehead, probably a forward airfield on the Kerch peninsula was used.

 

EDIT

I just did a google search for IAR-80 and Kerch . Google books showed me a snippet from the Book "Balkan Battles" by Ronald L. Tarnstorm:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Juri_JS

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Yevpatoria would be too far away for operations over the Kuban bridgehead, probably a forward airfield on the Kerch peninsula was used.

 

EDIT

I just did a google search for IAR-80 and Kerch . Google books showed me a snippet from the Book "Balkan Battles" by Ronald L. Tarnstorm:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! Yes, I agree with your assessment. 

[LukeFF]

@Jaws2002: besides my questions above about the 3rd Fighter Group (when did they leave Crimea in the Spring of 1943), what happened to this Group in 1944? The last info I have on them is that they were equipped with IAR 80Bs and 81s at Ghimbav-Brasov in the winter of 1943/44, but after that the information drops off entirely.

 

 

[Jaws2002]

The 3rd FG was turned into a training unit in mid 1943, but it's former 43 squadron remained a fighter squadron. That one was moved, first to 7thFG and in 1944 was again moved to 1st FG and did home defense.

The 4th FS moved to Yevpatoria, first with 49th FS (13 aircraft), on April 30th. They were equipped with IAR-80C's.

On this page you can also find out what squadrons were part of what Group, at that time.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

The 3rd FG was turned into a training unit in mid 1943, but it's former 43 squadron remained a fighter squadron. That one was moved, first to 7thFG and in 1944 was again moved to 1st FG and did home defense.

 

 

Okay, thanks. ? So, for the rest of the war it was a training formation?

[Jaws2002]

8 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Okay, thanks. ? So, for the rest of the war it was a training formation?

Yes. 43rd squadron stayed active as fighter unit, but under other squadrons. Typical romanian mess, like with everything else. ?

[LukeFF]

56 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

The 4th FS moved to Yevpatoria, first with 49th FS (13 aircraft), on April 30th. They were equipped with IAR-80C's.

On this page you can also find out what squadrons were part of what Group, at that time.

 

Great, thanks!

40 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

Yes. 43rd squadron stayed active as fighter unit, but under other squadrons. Typical romanian mess, like with everything else. ?

 

? 

 

Okay, so for the 3rd FG unit history, is this an accurate description of its activity from spring 1943 onwards?
 

Spoiler

In the spring of 1943, the FARR underwent another large-scale reorganization of its forces. The majority of the Romanian-built airplanes were regrouped inside Romania and given defensive tasks. The 3rd Fighter Group, which was still equipped with the older IAR 80A, was converted into a pilot training formation.

 

By the winter of 1943/44, the 3rd Fighter Group was stationed at Ghimbav-Brasov and equipped with IAR 80Bs and 81As to defend against U.S. Army Air Force heavy bomber raids. It was intended to replace all the IAR 80/81 fighter groups with Bf 109 Gs made in Romania, but owing to US bombings of the factories these units were forced to continue flying IAR 80s and 81s. As a result of this, the 3rd Fighter Group remained a training formation for the remainder of the war.

 

EDIT: so, now I have 3rd FG on the Kuban map up to 30 April 1943 and the 4th FG from 30 April 1943 to the end of the game's Kuban campaign, which is October 1943. Hopefully that's all good.

Edited September 21, 2022 by LukeFF

[Jaws2002]

Here's some pretty good info about the armament on the IAR-80/81 on September 13th 1943.

The inventory looked like this:

1st Flotila: one group with 45 planes armed with 13.2mm guns (iar-80B) with half of them being Bopi (dive bombers)

                 one group of 50 older planes armed with rifle caliber MG's that were converted to the Mauser wing (IAR-80M No central bomb rack)

                  One group of 50 new IAR81C (Mauser)

 

3rd flotila: One Group of 50 IAR-80C (MG-FF)

                  One group of 50 IAR-81C  (Mauser)

                 One group of 35 IAR-81C (Mauser, late series, no central bomb rack)+15 IAR80A converted to IAR-80M (by changing the wing to the Mauser armed version, no central bomb rack).

 

 

So I guess you could add a few missions for the IAR-81C for Kuban.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

26 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

So I guess you could add a few missions for the IAR-81C for Kuban.

 

Good. ? So maybe allow that armament from the beginning of September 1943? 

[Jaws2002]

That's cool. I don't know when they were first used in Combat. I know they started converting older planes, to the Mauser wing, starting February, but I don't know when the New IAr-81C's were first used in Combat. Also, I don't know if they actually fought in Kuban. I see a lot of 80C's mentioned at Yevpatoria, but I have no idea if 81C's fought there before September.

So yes, that's perfectly fine. 

 

Thank you!

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

That's cool. I don't know when they were first used in Combat. I know they started converting older planes, to the Mauser wing, starting February, but I don't know when the New IAr-81C's were first used in Combat. Also, I don't know if they actually fought in Kuban. I see a lot of 80C's mentioned at Yevpatoria, but I have no idea if 81C's fought there before September.

So yes, that's perfectly fine. 

 

Thank you!

 

Sure thing! This has all been really good, helpful information. 

[migmadmarine]

Especially with the Romanian voice acting to be gathered, suppose there is any chance of Romanian 109 or Hs-129 squadrons appearing in career? Could it be worth gathering resources on their fields as well?

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

Especially with the Romanian voice acting to be gathered, suppose there is any chance of Romanian 109 or Hs-129 squadrons appearing in career? Could it be worth gathering resources on their fields as well?

 

The one Romanian Bf 109 E group at Stalingrad (Grupul 7) is already in the game as an AI unit, so all it would need is a unit history.

 

Romanian Hs 129s were stationed well away from the maps we have in the game - mainly in the area of southeastern Ukraine beginning in August 1943.

Edited September 22, 2022 by LukeFF

[Juri_JS]

And please don't forget the Stukas of Grupul 3. They were based at Bagerovo from July to November 1943.

[LukeFF]

7 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

And please don't forget the Stukas of Grupul 3. They were based at Bagerovo from July to November 1943.

 

Okay, I'll see what can be done. I found a good link here about their operations, so maybe it can be added:

 

 

[migmadmarine]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The one Romanian Bf 109 E group at Stalingrad (Grupul 7) is already in the game as an AI unit, so all it would need is a unit history.

 

Romanian Hs 129s were stationed well away from the maps we have in the game - mainly in the area of southeastern Ukraine beginning in August 1943.

Guess we will need a generic Romanian E-7 skin for that too. 

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, migmadmarine said:

Guess we will need a generic Romanian E-7 skin for that too. 

 

Indeed. ?

 

On another note, when did the Romanian 5th Bomber Group fight at Stalingrad, and what airfields did they use? The only information I have is this:

 

Quote

In early 1942, another 15 airplanes were bought from Germany. These were newer models: He-111H6s, which could also launch torpedoes. All but one were assigned to the 78th Squadron, which served in the 5th Bomber Group in 1941. It was renamed 78th Marine Bomber Squadron and separated from the group. The other two squadrons, equipped with He-111H3s were sent on the front in September 1942, with the rest of the Romanian Combat Air Grouping and saw action over Stalingrad.

 

The losses were high and the remaining He-111s and Bf-109Es were united in an ad-hoc unit called the Mixed Group, under the command of the lt. cdor. Iosifescu, the commander of the 5th Bomber Group. But at the end of February, only He-111 was still available for action. The unit was sent back to Romania for rest and reorganization.

 

https://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/?article=755

[Sandmarken]

Hello! I am curently working on something for the IAR80 and having somewhat trouble finding all the facts. I know the 4th group had the IAR80C when they came to Kuban area around May 1943 and they used Kerch 2 as their airfield? Did this unit also use earlier versions like the A and B and also the IAR81? Was all planes the upgraded longer version?  

If anyone has any input it woud be greatly appreciated?

Edited March 18, 2024 by Sandmarken

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

Hello! I am curently working on something for the IAR80 and having somewhat trouble finding all the facts. I know the 4th group had the IAR80C when they came to Kuban area around May 1943 and they used Kerch 2 as their airfield? Did this unit also use earlier versions like the A and B and also the IAR81? Was all planes the upgraded longer version?  

If anyone has any input it woud be greatly appreciated?

 

Grupul 4 exclusively used IAR 80Cs, and they were all the later, larger airframes (serial numbers 241-290).

[Sandmarken]

10 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Grupul 4 exclusively used IAR 80Cs, and they were all the later, larger airframes (serial numbers 241-290).

Thank you!  This is very helpfull. ?

[Juri_JS]

Now that we have the IAR-80 in career mode, is there any chance to finally get Romanian skins for the Bf-109s of Grupul 7 in the Stalingrad chapter?

[LukeFF]

47 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Now that we have the IAR-80 in career mode, is there any chance to finally get Romanian skins for the Bf-109s of Grupul 7 in the Stalingrad chapter?

 

I'll ask and see if if can be done.

[Juri_JS]

1 minute ago, jollyjack said:

 

If they're not on Haluter's already i can make some you if you give me some details on what you're looking for.

At least i owe you something for all your great missions and campaigns ?

 

PS i just saw quite a few Bf109E7 ones on Haluter made by szelljr

and Hungarian ones Gyula Pozsgay BTW.

Thank you, but I already have some Romanian skins. What's needed is that the devs officially add some blank versions to the game. For the Odessa map we will also need such skins for other planes (Bf-109 G-6, Hs-129, Ju-87).

[Sandmarken]

Do not forget the 3rd bomber group and their stukas. They operated from Bagerovo or Kerch IV from july 1943 and until oktober/november i think. 😁

 

http://www.virtualarad.net/orizont_aviatic/august_2003/articol7/poza9.jpg