BoN Map. Unable to get AI in flight to taxi/take off.

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

Making a Multiplayer co-op mission on the new map (3 Mossies out of Manston) but for the life of me, when testing on my own, cannot get my 2 other AI wingmen to taxi/take off. I've so far yet to see them move after engine start.

Am I missing something glaringly obvious or could it be a bug with the new map? My MCU logic I've gone through over & over; the airfield chart & taxi points seem ok etc.

Any help would be wonderful as I'm at a total loss. I make quite a few multiplayer co-ops & always test the flight solo & always seems to works. I've done nothing different so I've either forgotten something obvious or there's a temperamental bug with this map. All three planes are set up as 'Coperative start'

Thanks for looking.

 

HH

Practice_Mission_Mosquito_F.B.Mk.VI.rar

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

Being almost a day spent on this, deleting the flight, redoing logic, changing, redoing, re-changing taxi route template, changing parking locations, changing aircraft type, changing mission type from multi to single, changing cooperative starts ... basically no matter what I do, I just cannot get the 2 AI wingmen to follow. They start up ... & that's it, I'm thinking this 'has' to be a bug.

I've done nothing different to how I've done all my other missions beit single or coop but they just don't wanna move. Great way to spend an entire Sunday. ?

 

If anyone one 'is' kind enough to have a look, I group most of my logic together but the initial player flight is ungrouped.... the only thing grouped will be the 'airfield' icon (with the taxi route template) which can be found in the 'airfield' group at Manston.

 

My experience has taught me that usually it's a problem with the taxi nodes but I make double sure I hit the node (which in turn to set wingmen rolling).

I try to keep my taxi route template as simple as possible.

Edited September 11, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

Here's a test on the same map, nothing on it but the 3x Mosquito coop flight & the airfield chart. The player flight has been copied/pasted from a known working coop mission of mine. With the hours that go by, I just can't see the problem with it.

The only discrepancy I can see is if you look at the new map, even before you place something on it, & have a look at the Integrity Check, there's a whole list of failures from the off.

I'm beginning to wonder if that's the contributing factors.

ManstonTakeOffTest.rar

[Jaegermeister]

Just from a quick look at your mission, it looks like you activated the first waypoint 2 seconds after the takeoff command, and reactivated the formation command on take off. If you swap those triggers, it should work. 

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

I found several things which might have been the problem or a combination. There is definitely a problem with the Early D-Day Airfield Template Group. There should not be a Command: Land MCU which was causing the all the integrity errors stuck in the template. Additionally, there appears to be several bug reports from folks flying careers on the new map.

 

There are two separate Terrain Presets and GUI Map settings for Normandy. Each uses a different set of Airfields which are within the available Templates. This might have been one of your problems as you were using the Early D-Day Airfields along with the later summer airfields within the templates on the later normandy-summer Terrain Preset and GUI Map.

 

There are certain ways to name the flights within CoOPs so they show as a complete flight within the selecting screen. I redid the Mossies in this way.

 

Anyway, here is your corrected and working Mission. I listed what I removed and redid in the new mission briefing.

New Mosquito Mission.zip

 

I'm sure that they will need to correct the error in the within the Airfield Template in the next update.

Good Luck with your Mission Design,

Tip

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

10 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

I found several things which might have been the problem or a combination. There is definitely a problem with the Early D-Day Airfield Template Group. There should not be a Command: Land MCU which was causing the all the integrity errors stuck in the template. Additionally, there appears to be several bug reports from folks flying careers on the new map.

 

There are two separate Terrain Presets and GUI Map settings for Normandy. Each uses a different set of Airfields which are within the available Templates. This might have been one of your problems as you were using the Early D-Day Airfields along with the later summer airfields within the templates on the later normandy-summer Terrain Preset and GUI Map.

 

There are certain ways to name the flights within CoOPs so they show as a complete flight within the selecting screen. I redid the Mossies in this way.

 

Anyway, here is your corrected and working Mission. I listed what I removed and redid in the new mission briefing.

New Mosquito Mission.zip 955.58 kB · 0 downloads

 

I'm sure that they will need to correct the error in the within the Airfield Template in the next update.

Good Luck with your Mission Design,

Tip

Hi Tip. Currently at work but so much looking forward to getting back in front the ME and digesting your observations further.

Thank you so very much for your time and so efforts in helping with this.

Very appreciative indeed ?

[DFLion]

Following on from the above posts there are definitely problems with the Mission Builder using the new Normandy Map. I've attached 2 screen shots that I took trying to set up the pre-D Day airfields. In the first shot you can see that I have set it up correctly, in the second shot you can see the 'airfield error message' that I can't get rid of.

When I put six Spitfire IX's on the airfield (correctly) for take-off, the leader takes-off correctly, the other aircraft go around in circles ground looping. I am sure the 'Command Land MCU' placed permanently in the center of the airfield is the problem. When you download the 'Airfields template' there is no separation between the old and the new airfields - should that be a fix in the next update?

DFLion

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, DFLion said:

I am sure the 'Command Land MCU' placed permanently in the center of the airfield is the problem.

 

It has been reported, but I have not found any problems directly related to the extra Land commands. You can just delete them if they bother you.

 

2 hours ago, DFLion said:

When you download the 'Airfields template' there is no separation between the old and the new airfields - should that be a fix in the next update?

 

They are separated into 2 groups once the main airfields group is installed. If you are making an early map mission, you just delete the later airfields group in the mission tree and you are done. 

 

3 hours ago, DFLion said:

... should that be a fix in the next update?

 

The bug reports from careers I have seen amount to a couple of people who have encountered errors in the mission generator templates and those are being fixed. 

The ground looping AI is a separate issue and not specific to the Normandy map. It's most noticeable with Spitfires and Tempests but also apparently Ju52s and C47s I think.

 

 

[DFLion]

Thanks very much 'Jaegermeister' for your comprehensive reply, much appreciated. I'll get some JG2 Focke-Wulfs into the air and test the airfield deletion.

DFLion

[DFLion]

Jaegermeister,

I have now tested the mission doing the airfield deletion. I am still getting the 'integrity check fails screen' when saving, listing the airfields (annoying). I now have the early airfields, though there was another problem? After I placed my Focke-Wulf on the airfield, I then deleted the 'Command  land MCU' successfully. When I got back into the game there was my Focke-Wulf on the map, which I couldn't activate (sitting there with all its correct markings). I then had to create a second Focke-Wulf which I could fly! (see pic below). Obviously there are a few more issues with the mission builder?

DFLion

[Jaegermeister]

Did you have any issues after deleting the “land” MCU and then building your mission?

I know this issue has been reported, so it should be fixed in a future update. in the mean time, I would suggest going through the airfields group and deleting the “land” MCUs in the mission tree, and then re-saving that group over the old one in your Template directory. You might want to back that up somewhere else, because a new update will overwrite it. Then when it’s fixed, delete the altered group file.

 

On another related note, I want to experiment with the Spitfire MkIX takeoff to see what it’s doing now

[DFLion]

Thanks again 'Jaegermeister'. I didn't have any issues deleting the 'land' MCU in the mission tree, the only thing that happened after that was the duplication of the Focke-Wulf. I will go through the 'airfields group' and delete the 'land' MCU's as per your advice.

I would be interested to know how you go with the Spitfire IX experiment?

DFLion

[Jaegermeister]

17 hours ago, DFLion said:

I would be interested to know how you go with the Spitfire IX experiment?

 

The taxi errors with the Spitfire IX and presumably the Tempest and others are related to wind. With wind set to 0ms or 1ms, the AI will taxi and land without a major problem as demonstrated below.

 

Spoiler

 

With wind at ground level set to 2ms or faster, the AI consistently ground loops on landing. I am sure there are situations where this will also cause taxi problems also.

 

Spoiler

 

The solution is to set wind at ground level no higher than 1ms. I don't think this is going to be changed any time soon.

 

[DFLion]

Thanks again Jaegermeister, very interesting result. I didn’t suspect the wind was the culprit. Spitfire XIV’s have the same problem.

DFLion

By the way I deleted all the ‘land’ MCU’s and saved the changes - when trying to start the mission it wouldn’t start.

So will leave everything alone till officially fixed.

DFLion

[Jaegermeister]

15 hours ago, DFLion said:

Thanks again Jaegermeister, very interesting result. I didn’t suspect the wind was the culprit. Spitfire XIV’s have the same problem.

 

Yes, Spit XIV, Tempest, Mossie, Spit Vb, and some others with high torque engines or no fixed tailwheel. The AI can't adjust quick enough and the wind messes them up. 

 

15 hours ago, DFLion said:

By the way I deleted all the ‘land’ MCU’s and saved the changes - when trying to start the mission it wouldn’t start.

So will leave everything alone till officially fixed.

 

Post the mission and I'll see what I get. I made a test mission yesterday with an airfield template like I mentioned and had no issues. I still get the errors with the missing V1 blocks if I run an integrity check, but I only use that for finding things I don't know about. If I know it's there and it doesn't matter, no worries. I suspect you have something else wrong besides that.

[DFLion]

9 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Yes, Spit XIV, Tempest, Mossie, Spit Vb, and some others with high torque engines or no fixed tailwheel. The AI can't adjust quick enough and the wind messes them up. 

 

 

Post the mission and I'll see what I get. I made a test mission yesterday with an airfield template like I mentioned and had no issues. I still get the errors with the missing V1 blocks if I run an integrity check, but I only use that for finding things I don't know about. If I know it's there and it doesn't matter, no worries. I suspect you have something else wrong besides that.

I've just finished making a test mission using 12 Focke-Wulf A3's (6 parked, 6 on the strip) at Evreux I think. They take-off to intercept 12 Spitfire IX's which I am still placing in the mission. The Focke-Wulfs look good over the Normandy map, though occasionally run into each other during the formatting. I am still getting the 'airfields MCU' error and I am just  putting up with it. I will post this mission for you to test, when I finish it. The Spitfire XIV with its 'Griffin' engine is very 'high torque aircraft' which is difficult to taxi on the ground, though great to have in the sim.

Thanks,

DFLion 

[DFLion]

Jaegermeister, as requested, attached is my Normandy Test Mission 03. Everything seems to be working ok, though I did it quickly. The mission is based on a Pierre Clostermann's 341 Sqn IXC Spitfires providing top-cover for USAAF B26's bombing Le Havre, Jun 1943. JG2 Focke-Wulfs intercept them flying out of Triqueville. I couldn't put the Spitfire Squadron markings on the aircraft - it didn't work properly - (NL-B) etc. I will be interested in your comments, many thanks. The Focke_Wulfs did have a taxying crash in one 'random' incident - which stopped half the Staffle getting in the air!

DFLion 

DF_Normandy_Test03.zip

[Jaegermeister]

@DFLion, here are some general observations.

 

You only need to object link the flight leader with your Takeoff, Formation, Waypoint and Attack commands. This applies to all planes, vehicles, ships, etc. I don't think that creates problems, but it does waste time in the ME.

If you put more taxi waypoints, your AI wingmen will taxi more evenly. Each waypoint triggers the next AI plane in line to taxi when it is crossed by the leader. Use them to space out your flight behind you.

Your early waypoints are a little slow. I usually put a Spitfire IX at about 425 kph

You have not cancelled your Attack commands with anything. Once they engage, they will just keep fighting indefinitely.

You have triggered the Attack commands with more than 1 waypoint.

There is no need to trigger the next waypoint and the Attack command at the same time, since you need to end the attack command with something like a timer, or a counter, then a Force Complete, and then trigger the next waypoint.

No bombers = no escort

All the unneeded land commands are still there. I thought that was the original point of this discussion.

The Tactical codes will be working after the next update according to Sneaksie.

 

I didn't fly it, it still needs some work and I already see how it will go. I didn't get any error messages when I opened it.

Good luck with it, you should be fine if you address all those points and then add your bombers.

 

[DFLion]

Thanks again Jaegermeister for your good advice, the ME is a 'work in progress' for me, still learning all the time. I will complete the mission, hopefully next week, and post it with the B26's. Have a look at it again and let me know what you think.

Regards,

DFLion

[DN308]

On 10/2/2022 at 3:27 AM, DFLion said:

Thanks again Jaegermeister for your good advice, the ME is a 'work in progress' for me, still learning all the time. I will complete the mission, hopefully next week, and post it with the B26's. Have a look at it again and let me know what you think.

Regards,

DFLion

Hi, Didi you post your mission?

[DFLion]

Hi Jaegermeister,

Attached is my Normandy_Test04 mission for you to have a look at. I not sure if I ended the Spitfire IX dogfight correctly? - if you could have a look at that and advise. The big problem for the Spitfires is running out of fuel, I may have to change the parked Spitfires to takeoff from the airfield. I just have to add the mission text and the route after your advice. Other than those issues, the mission looks good. 12 x USAAF B26's bomb Le Havre with 6 x USAAF P51B's escorting them. JG2  6  x FW190A5's intercept the bombers and 12 x FW190A3's intercept the Spitfires.

Thanks for your help.

DFLion

DF_Normandy_Test04.zip