Selling my IL2

[CB77Don246]

I would like to sell my IL2 Battles can I if so how do I go about selling ?, I have all the battles including the Normandy latest issue.

[Avimimus]

I'm not sure it is possible. I think there is a policy against reselling keys. I'm not sure about transferring them to family members though. I suppose one would have to change the e-mail address associated with the account to the new 'owner' and they would then be able to change the password. But you'd have to do it with someone you trust and who trusts you. That is what I'll do if I have grandkids...

[Jade_Monkey]

I'm gonna guess that it's against terms of service.

[Raptorattacker]

1 hour ago, CB77Don246 said:

I would like to sell my IL2 Battles can I if so how do I go about selling ?, I have all the battles including the Normandy latest issue.

I would just swallow it and uninstall. Who the hell would 'buy' a used game???

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, Raptorattacker said:

I would just swallow it and uninstall. Who the hell would 'buy' a used game???

What's used in a download game? The new owner would simply download a Fresh copy of the game. There's no CD to get scratched. Many people buy discounted, used games. Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to sell his copy? 

 Whoever buys it will get a solid discount.

 

[Gambit21]

4 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

What's used in a download game? The new owner would simply download a Fresh copy of the game. There's no CD to get scratched. Many people buy discounted, used games. Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to sell his copy? 

 Whoever buys it will get a solid discount.

 

Nah, it’s used.

Have to account for wear and tear etc. and you don’t know if the previous owner revved it up too high and damaged it. 

[MisterSmith]

You can contact Tech Support to transfer to another users email but that's about it.

 

Smith

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to sell his copy?

I play IL2 maybe 4 or 5 hours a week, on average. That means there are 163 hours a week I don't play the game, which is 97%. With careful buying and reselling of keys, I could essentially share my one key with 33 others, without paying for it.

 

Or I buy the game, play it for a few hours, then sell it again when I tire of it, only to buy it back when I want to play again. Basically gets me the game for free.

 

Or buy the game on 85% Steam discount, then sell at 50% discount when it's back at full price. Makes me a decent amount of money. 

 

Easy way to stop this: make it very hard or illegal to resell, or put checks in place to make sure each resale request is legitimate. Not sure what they did for il2.

 

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems that by opening up your game to easy reselling, you're potentially opening up a couple of legal and security cans of worms.

Edited September 10, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Jaws2002]

42 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I play IL2 maybe 4 or 5 hours a week, on average. That means there are 163 hours a week I don't play the game, which is 97%. With careful buying and reselling of keys, I could essentially share my one key with 33 others, without paying for it.

 

Or I buy the game, play it for a few hours, then sell it again when I tire of it, only to buy it back when I want to play again. Basically gets me the game for free.

 

Or buy the game on 85% Steam discount, then sell at 50% discount when it's back at full price. Makes me a decent amount of money. 

 

Easy way to stop this: make it very hard or illegal to resell, or put checks in place to make sure each resale request is legitimate. Not sure what they did for il2.

 

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems that by opening up your game to easy reselling, you're potentially opening up a couple of legal and security cans of worms.

 

 

You paid the full price. Whatever they asked for it, at the time, you paid the full amount. They didn't charge you a tenth of the price for the game, just because you don't have the time to play more. You are entitled to play 24/7 if you want. That's what you paid for.

 It doesn't matter how much the next buyer plays, he still can only use the one copy you sold and you can no longer play. 

Their servers will still see the same one copy, regardless if it's you or someone else. 

 

 It's amazing how easy people are willing to give up their rights, even when nobody asked them to do it.

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Jaws2002

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Sounds like someone got shot down by a friendly AI aircraft today.

[firdimigdi]

6 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I play IL2 maybe 4 or 5 hours a week, on average. That means there are 163 hours a week I don't play the game, which is 97%. With careful buying and reselling of keys, I could essentially share my one key with 33 others, without paying for it.

 

Or I buy the game, play it for a few hours, then sell it again when I tire of it, only to buy it back when I want to play again. Basically gets me the game for free.

 

Or buy the game on 85% Steam discount, then sell at 50% discount when it's back at full price. Makes me a decent amount of money. 

 

Easy way to stop this: make it very hard or illegal to resell, or put checks in place to make sure each resale request is legitimate. Not sure what they did for il2.

 

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems that by opening up your game to easy reselling, you're potentially opening up a couple of legal and security cans of worms.

 

Or you could join a collective and shed the chains of ownership, comrade.

[Trooper117]

It's like buying a second hand car... it's not illegal, it simply changes owners.

Same for the game, any game... if the owner wants to get rid of it and sell it or give it to someone they should be able to do so, without getting grief from sycophantic game lovers.

[Eisenfaustus]

45 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

It's like buying a second hand car... it's not illegal, it simply changes owners.

Same for the game, any game... if the owner wants to get rid of it and sell it or give it to someone they should be able to do so, without getting grief from sycophantic game lovers.

Unless you agree during purchase that you are not allowed to sell. As is common with digital games - another reason why gaming industry prefers digital distribution to Discs. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

9 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

You paid the full price. Whatever they asked for it, at the time, you paid the full amount. They didn't charge you a tenth of the price for the game, just because you don't have the time to play more. You are entitled to play 24/7 if you want. That's what you paid for.

 It doesn't matter how much the next buyer plays, he still can only use the one copy you sold and you can no longer play. 

Their servers will still see the same one copy, regardless if it's you or someone else. 

 

 It's amazing how easy people are willing to give up their rights, even when nobody asked them to do it.

What rights am I giving up exactly? If we were still in the era of physical CD drives and offline games, you would be right and I should be allowed to sell those physical disks to someone else. But we're not.

 

What you bought is not the game itself, but rather the ability to access it. The EULA, which you agreed to when you bought the game says it so: "Operator grants access to the User". Since you are not the Operator (i.e. 1C-777 Limited), you are not in the position to grant this access to anyone else. That would not be selling your own property, that would be selling someone else's.

 

See it as buying a membership of some very exclusive club. You might be allowed to sell your membership card to someone else, but whomever enters is up to the proprietors. Doing so doesn't automatically transfer the membership itself. If you show up with a membership card but the doorman and proprietors don't know you, you're not going to be able to enter.

 

You *might* be able to sell the access to IL2 itself, but doing so requires you to discuss this with 1C who may or may not decide to allow and enable this, which is their right. As well as their ability: since they're the ones regulating access, they're the only ones even in a position to sell the game.

Edited September 10, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[simfan2015]

I would guess that if 1C, ED, EA... allow for selling their softwares second hand it's their best way to bankruptcy!? 

[Art-J]

Companies have different policies.

 

A quick look at EULA on the store website here doesn't seem to prohibit selling accounts, only warns against some issues that might pop up when doing so.

 

ED on the other hand, officially prohibits resales, so If anyone's willing to get rid of his DCS account, he will have to arrange it "underground".

[simfan2015]

I would like to have it the other way. 

I would have been happy with a family account (2 simultaneous players). Now I had to buy the il-2 and DCS licenses twice at full price ... For me and my son. Something like a Netflix family account ?

The only positive about it is that I gathered more DCS miles to use later on. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by simfan2015

[Zooropa_Fly]

11 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I play IL2 maybe 4 or 5 hours a week

 

Don't forget the 45 hours you spend in the ME ?

[Irishratticus72]

Dammit, I actually thought you were selling a real WW2 era aircraft! Be careful with your choice of topic headlines in future, that's how accidents happen.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Got zero problems with anyone who goes about it this way, with openly and genuine in the loop honesty with the producer.  Those are commendable qualities on this rock.  Could use more like you on the virtual battlefield, sorry to see you go.

[Lusekofte]

16 hours ago, MisterSmith said:

You can contact Tech Support to transfer to another users email but that's about it.

 

Smith

Thank you for info, I consider giftig my account. 

It is currently not in use. 

[[1Tac]DisCHQ]

6 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

What rights am I giving up exactly? If we were still in the era of physical CD drives and offline games, you would be right and I should be allowed to sell those physical disks to someone else. But we're not.

 

What you bought is not the game itself, but rather the ability to access it. The EULA, which you agreed to when you bought the game says it so: "Operator grants access to the User". Since you are not the Operator (i.e. 1C-777 Limited), you are not in the position to grant this access to anyone else. That would not be selling your own property, that would be selling someone else's.

 

See it as buying a membership of some very exclusive club. You might be allowed to sell your membership card to someone else, but whomever enters is up to the proprietors. Doing so doesn't automatically transfer the membership itself. If you show up with a membership card but the doorman and proprietors don't know you, you're not going to be able to enter.

 

You *might* be able to sell the access to IL2 itself, but doing so requires you to discuss this with 1C who may or may not decide to allow and enable this, which is their right. As well as their ability: since they're the ones regulating access, they're the only ones even in a position to sell the game.

 

This is not realy how it works (at least in the EU) on a legal bases, you do infact own your copy of IL-2 (or any software sold as a one time purchase). You have full ownership rights over said software license and may indeed resell it, regardless of whatever the EULA says (remember EULA's are subject to laws not the other way around).

[CB77Don246]

Well it looks like I have opened a can of worms here, thanks to all that posted a reply. 

 

You see I am a (very) old guy and live in the past I always thought when one purchased a item and then used it and then pass it on so it looks like I do not own a copy of the sim unlike WOFF that I play a lot for my WW1 drug I would have liked the WOFF WW2 install but the cost has put me off (only have state pension) so I thought I would sell my IL2 to cover the costs.

Ho well never mind I will push on and have to hang on to my IL2 and look forward to the second instalment of FC.

Thank you all.

[Jaws2002]

It's your game. Do with it as you please. Nobody has the right to tell you otherwise. 

They didn't pay for it. You did it's yours.

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, [1Tac]DisCHQ said:

This is not realy how it works (at least in the EU) on a legal bases, you do infact own your copy of IL-2 (or any software sold as a one time purchase). You have full ownership rights over said software license and may indeed resell it, regardless of whatever the EULA says (remember EULA's are subject to laws not the other way around).

Except that:

1) According to the EULA, USA and Russian legislation applies, not EU. To what extent EU customer protection still applies given that 1C has an office in Cyprus, I don't know. If you bought from Steam, it's a different question altogether and you should take it up with them.

2) It is not the software itself that is the problem here. Yes, according EU legislation, you can definitely legally resell the software itself, i.e. the game, assets, mission editor, etc., which in the case of IL2 should be enough for offline play. However, the EU court judgement you're referring to is in my eyes not entirely clear about whether that extends to the accounts and ongoing "subscriptions" necessary for online play. A French court has recently judged it does, but a German court earlier ruled it didn't (both were after the judgement referred to above). As far as I'm aware, there's no current EU-wide legislation or jurisprudence that unequivocally states that a user definitely has that right.

 

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

It's your game. Do with it as you please. Nobody has the right to tell you otherwise.

The law has the right to tell you otherwise, and whether that's the case is what we're discussing here. Your personal opinion about rights is your personal opinion.

 

But yes @CB77Don246, if you want to sell it, go ahead. There's a good chance IL2 customer support will allow it and guide you through it. Asking them doesn't hurt either way. If they don't allow or enable it and you're positive you're covered by EU (or French) law, you would still stand a chance in a lengthy and potentially costly court battle. If you're not covered by EU legislation, I wouldn't even bother to go to court.

 

Do mind whom you're selling to though. If it's someone you know, it's fine. If you're selling it on the internet to a person/company you don't know, be aware that those people who are involved with the buying and selling of online accounts and game licenses are usually operating on the fringes of the law, and just as often outside of those. There's a good chance you'll never see the money you were promised, or are otherwise scammed.