Game version 5.001 discussion: Battle of Normandy - RELEASED!

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

27 minutes ago, Art-J said:

You mean geeky locals, brethren of airplane "rivet counters", and I partially understand that point of view. Partially, because most of the remaining worldwide customer base either have never been to these areas to compare, or couldn't care less as long as major cities and correct airbases are included. Although there's always room for improvement, you guys need to really manage your expectations. Currently, this game engine is not quite capable of providing level of terrain and infrastructure detail close to MSFS but neither it's meant to.

You misunderstand me totally. It was another gentleman who was going on about roads not present and the likes.

I was realistic enough to know that I just wanted a ‘representation’ of the area it was striving to produce but if you refuse to include a map full of hedgerows and farmland then you’re not going to get a portrayal if your theatre subject are you.

I’m quite sure the current game engine can portray simple hedgerows in place of trees. That’s all I’m saying. That’s all that was ever needed.

 

30 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

I can't believe the fuss over some shrubs, end of the day, it's a flight sim, sure, the A456 coming out of some town in Surry might not be accurate, or the Butchers Arms in Dover might have the wrong type of roof, but lets not forget the amount of work that has gone into the map is astonishing. I'm sure in the future there will be fixes to address certain issues, but for now, take a plane up and just enjoy the work that's gone into the map.

Laughable … a few ‘shrubs’ 

Try portraying a Welsh map with no valleys.

what’s wrong with wanting the map to represent the locale it’s supposed to represent?

Edited September 8, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

32 minutes ago, Art-J said:

You mean geeky locals, brethren of airplane "rivet counters", and I partially understand that point of view. Partially, because most of the remaining worldwide customer base either have never been to these areas to compare, or couldn't care less as long as major cities and correct airbases are included. Although there's always room for improvement, you guys need to really manage your expectations. Currently, this game engine is not quite capable of providing level of terrain and infrastructure detail close to MSFS but neither it's meant to.

 

No this is not the primary point of contention - the game engine is able to provide the level of terrain and infrastructure detail that would at least provide some suspension of belief that we are actually flying over 1940's Britain; but the placement of towns/villages and their structural placement within them is wrong; and the wrong textures are in use or are missing.  And I'm not expexcting like-for-like placement but something akin to a general layout would be good to see.  I know this is not MFSF but it is a simulator that is meant to be modelling the southern UK.  This is not a limitation of the game engine.

 

Compare the map to say something like Birds of Prey that was on the XBOX 360 (!) you can see huge differences in map quality - BoP had the feel of flying over Britain with smaller villages, farm land, hedgerows all well rendered.  This current BoN map feels like a combination of Kuban and Rhineland to me; generic coastline and generic forests, just with a few more hills. 

 

It's not good.  I expect a map of a country to actually look like the country it's supposed to be based off. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by 76SQN-Minimayhemtemp

[BOO]

2 hours ago, Art-J said:

You mean geeky locals, brethren of airplane "rivet counters", and I partially understand that point of view. Partially, because most of the remaining worldwide customer base either have never been to these areas to compare, or couldn't care less as long as major cities and correct airbases are included. Although there's always room for improvement, you guys need to really manage your expectations. Currently, this game engine is not quite capable of providing level of terrain and infrastructure detail close to MSFS but neither it's meant to.

 

Have to agree that some expectations are a little high but for me as a uk based player the map doesnt quite capture that essence of that part of the world. I wouldnt pan the devs for it but it detracts a bit. For its age and all its own inaccuracies, the Bltiz channel map still "feels" like the best representation out of the regional maps of this and DCS to me in terns of the countryside.  Personally, I didnt expect a great deal more in terms of accuracy and unique layouts but I did kinda think there would be some attention paid to headgerows and bocage given the Tank Crew element of the game (i dont know how tanks interact with the scenery in TC so Im assuming the dynamics are worked out). 

 

In Rhineland, modders have worked their magic on towns. Perhpas they could work the same magic on the hedgerows. 

 

All of this is moot for me. As with Rhineland I probably wont fly this map a lot. I like ground pounding and the mometary stutter one experiences when approaching towns and cities at low level is just too irratating to enjoy. I hope one day the devs find a way to prevent this but suspect its something to do with manner in which the town and city objects are created that was brought in for BOBP. Of course there could me a magic setting Im not aware of but its persisted over 2 vastly differng PCs and is currently prsent on a PC that otherwise doesnt break a sweat in IL2.     So it seems that I need to "encounter" a good few population areas within the flight before the st-stutters st-stop. Taking a costal flight at 250m form St Margarets, via Sandwich and around to Herne Bay, the stutters decrease from a noticable tickat first to almost nothing by Ramsgate, to nothing at all by Margate. Which suggest to me the game is cacheing. It would e great if some day those caches survived the game or mission being closed. As it stands, at least over England, the higher density of towns than on the BoBP map reduce the time in mission those stutters persist. 

 

Im pleased for the devs but, as a comsumer, its not buttering me parsnips right now.  EDIT - gripes aside- the more I play it, the more I like it. Positives for me are that towns and cites appear to shimmer less in the distance, the map feels much less "fuzzy felt" than Rhineland and, once my head is in the game it engrosses me enough to overlook the other stuff.  Still would like hedgrows and more farms and hamlets but its a map Ill enjoy I think. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by BOO
a little more posisitve after a few hours play

[unclepants]

13 hours ago, unclepants said:

Downloading now. Planning on getting up at 4 am to have a look. I've been hanging out for this release, I've kept my mouth shut because, well, whining and pestering is annoying and I'm too old and ugly to behave like a toddler. I'm actually really interested to see how my home town, and indeed, my house, has been represented. Yes, yes. I know the actual streets etc won't be directly matched but I'm planning to have a tank battle in 'my' street, defend my house from dastardly hun bombers and  checking out the pier before it burned down.

 

Good job getting this done, team. I know it wasn't easy. I'll be forgiving of any early glitches, this is a big update really - much more than just the map. After a lot of hours, I've been finding the career mode a little same-y so this should give my IL2 playing a whole new lease of life. As much as I enjoy DCS, I was hugely disappointed that my home town was completely missing on their Channel map, just a set of generic fields. And now IL2 looks so great, with the atmosphere/cloud/lighting updates last year, I'm expecting to be flying IL2 almost exclusively for a while ?  Yes, I know looks aren't everything but I work in design, so I'm a bit picky and if a sim doesn't look good I find it hard to suspend disbelief. 

OK, I opened it up, started a quick mission on the Normandy map. I wanted to see the UK, but the QM only starts in France so I jumped in a Tempest and flew across. Imagine my disappointment when my home town was there, but it was just flat textures on the ground, no pier, no railway station, no houses. Ah, never mind, the rest of the map will be better. So I flew to Dover and... the same thing! But I've seen screen grabs of dover, and it had the castle and buildings, something must be wrong. Was it my install? My machine? Then the penny dropped. Quick Missions doesn't place UK models (most of them anyway, the Chain Home radar was in place) to make it 'quicker' as all the Quick Missions were in France. OK, that's absolutely fine. I then started a career, took off from the UK and flew away from my group. There is was! In all it's glory - my home town. And, for the life of me, it was pretty darn close. If I squinted I could see where my house was. Hooray! It's looking great. The white cliffs are probably the best versions I've seen in any sim I've flown and I love that rivers make the sea around their mouths a browner colour, as it would be IRL. I'm not disappointed, great job.

[tattywelshie]

11 minutes ago, unclepants said:

OK, I opened it up, started a quick mission on the Normandy map. I wanted to see the UK, but the QM only starts in France so I jumped in a Tempest and flew across. Imagine my disappointment when my home town was there, but it was just flat textures on the ground, no pier, no railway station, no houses. Ah, never mind, the rest of the map will be better. So I flew to Dover and... the same thing! But I've seen screen grabs of dover, and it had the castle and buildings, something must be wrong. Was it my install? My machine? Then the penny dropped. Quick Missions doesn't place UK models (most of them anyway, the Chain Home radar was in place) to make it 'quicker' as all the Quick Missions were in France. OK, that's absolutely fine. I then started a career, took off from the UK and flew away from my group. There is was! In all it's glory - my home town. And, for the life of me, it was pretty darn close. If I squinted I could see where my house was. Hooray! It's looking great. The white cliffs are probably the best versions I've seen in any sim I've flown and I love that rivers make the sea around their mouths a browner colour, as it would be IRL. I'm not disappointed, great job.

It's fab I think. Did a career mission last night in VR in the Typhoon and the feeling of fleeing across the channel back to Blighty with a 190 on my tail, seeing the white cliffs hove into view, with chain home there was an amazing feeling.

[Art-J]

@GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk OK, I understand your concerns a bit better. I still don't expect terrain texture rework, 'cause we're stretching this game engine beyond its limits and just like with Rheinland map, above certain size of the terrain the sim eats memory like candy and starts running noticeably worse. Hedges instead of some trees, however? Yeah, I think it sounds more plausible as far as maintaining overall performance is concerned. Wouldn't mind seeing such a switch being done a couple of updates into the future. 

 

@unclepants Thanks for the report. I'm still yet to fly there, but will keep that in mind once I go sightseeing. Does your observation apply to AQM as well? Would be pity, 'cause I don't do campaigns. Might need to learn how to use the dreaded mission editor to see all the map properly then.

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

13 minutes ago, unclepants said:

OK, I opened it up, started a quick mission on the Normandy map. I wanted to see the UK, but the QM only starts in France so I jumped in a Tempest and flew across. Imagine my disappointment when my home town was there, but it was just flat textures on the ground, no pier, no railway station, no houses. Ah, never mind, the rest of the map will be better. So I flew to Dover and... the same thing! But I've seen screen grabs of dover, and it had the castle and buildings, something must be wrong. Was it my install? My machine? Then the penny dropped. Quick Missions doesn't place UK models (most of them anyway, the Chain Home radar was in place) to make it 'quicker' as all the Quick Missions were in France. OK, that's absolutely fine. I then started a career, took off from the UK and flew away from my group. There is was! In all it's glory - my home town. And, for the life of me, it was pretty darn close. If I squinted I could see where my house was. Hooray! It's looking great. The white cliffs are probably the best versions I've seen in any sim I've flown and I love that rivers make the sea around their mouths a browner colour, as it would be IRL. I'm not disappointed, great job.

 

No this is not right - QM has plenty of starts in the UK; I was just there and flew out from Dunsford.

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, 76SQN-Minimayhemtemp said:

 

No this is not the primary point of contention - the game engine is able to provide the level of terrain and infrastructure detail that would at least provide some suspension of belief that we are actually flying over 1940's Britain; but the placement of towns/villages and their structural placement within them is wrong; and the wrong textures are in use or are missing.  And I'm not expexcting like-for-like placement but something akin to a general layout would be good to see.  I know this is not MFSF but it is a simulator that is meant to be modelling the southern UK.  This is not a limitation of the game engine.

 

Compare the map to say something like Birds of Prey that was on the XBOX 360 (!) you can see huge differences in map quality - BoP had the feel of flying over Britain with smaller villages, farm land, hedgerows all well rendered.  This current BoN map feels like a combination of Kuban and Rhineland to me; generic coastline and generic forests, just with a few more hills. 

 

It's not good.  I expect a map of a country to actually look like the country it's supposed to be based off. 

I have to disagree & detract from much of what you're saying. (I seem to be getting berated for worrying about towns & roads being wrong)

Birds of Prey was awful in its representation & no better than the lazy DCS Channel map & War Thunder's efforts & I don't care about the 'infastructure' being wrong, because who's going to care that Ramsgate has a road missing when you're upside down, on a 109's tail etc. What I 'do' care about is the general 'feel' of the map environment we pay good money for. In my opinion, the only element missing from this map is the most importatant in any Southern England/Northern French map. There is no way in the world that you can point-blankly & 100% ignore a real life terrain made up solely of hedge-lined fields, small villages & the odd copse (small wood) here & there. Like it or not ... that is Southern England. It's not being pedantic or crying over a few shrubs, it's fact. I've bought this map three times over as I have 2 accounts on a LAN network & also bought it for my son. I know I didn't have to but I had faith in this map looking and feeling more like a Kuban, Velkie, Rhineland mash up but I'm sorely wrong.

Edited September 8, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[Rjel]

7 minutes ago, 76SQN-Minimayhemtemp said:

 

No this is not right - QM has plenty of starts in the UK; I was just there and flew out from Dunsford.

I was finally able to get to the icons so I started over England after zooming in and out of the map several times. Didn’t there used to be a control key in the camera tab to “grab” the map and slide it around the screen? If there is still I can’t remember what it’s called. 

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, Art-J said:

@GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk OK, I understand your concerns a bit better. I still don't expect terrain texture rework, 'cause we're stretching this game engine beyond its limits and just like with Rheinland map, above certain size of the terrain the sim eats memory like candy and starts running noticeably worse. Hedges instead of some trees, however? Yeah, I think it sounds more plausible as far as maintaining overall performance is concerned. Wouldn't mind seeing such a switch being done a couple of updates into the future. 

 

@unclepants Thanks for the report. I'm still yet to fly there, but will keep that in mind once I go sightseeing. Does your observation apply to AQM as well? Would be pity, 'cause I don't do campaigns. Might need to learn how to use the dreaded mission editor to see all the map properly then.

This is my only gripe but to my worst luck, for me, it's a show stopper. I've only ever been disappointed  on this thread, by the terrain being completely & utterly wrong in every respect. Not the towns or the infastructure etc.

Ditch at least 60% of the trees & introduce hedges & fields. Without it, it's a complete joke to label it and sell it as a Normany & Southern England map.

[tattywelshie]

3 minutes ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

This is my only gripe but to my worst luck, for me, it's a show stopper. I've only ever been disappointed  on this thread, by the terrain being completely & utterly wrong in every respect. Not the towns or the infastructure etc.

Ditch at least 60% of the trees & introduce hedges & fields. Without it, it's a complete joke to label it and sell it as a Normany & Southern England map.

Are there hedges on any of the maps? Just thinking there might be a reason they aren't present.

[Deicide]

Has ai been fixed yet? Will they engage ground targets and air targets properly now? Or do I need to still need to let ai run the sortie and me fly in the 2-4 position just so they actually drop their weapons or engage. Otherwise I could spam attack ground or air and nothing would happen. I've watched ai teammates just fly straight while doing nothing about an aircraft closing in and shooting at them. Same with ground attacking and ai never even dropping their load. Has loading times been addressed yet and slow UI? It's mind numbing the slowness of loading and UI clunkiness. I hope these have addressed. I did not see any mention the patch notes. 

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, tattywelshie said:

Are there hedges on any of the maps? Just thinking there might be a reason they aren't present.

Well if that's the case then you simply can't provide a map of your intended subject that has hedges completely dominate its countryside. It's that simple. Why is there no Pacific theatre? Because they say they wouldn't be able to do the sim justice as the knowledge is limited. No different here. If you can't do the theatre map justice because you can't create hedgerows & English farmland then don't do it.

But come on, Dover Castle's there, so how hard can it be to portray some simple form of networked hedgerows. This isn't Georgia etc. It's completely different in its look. To completely ignore it is either baffling, stubborn or both.

[SIA_ArcTander]

Got to say the map looks lovely, but as a Brit who lives in the area I have a fairly major nitpick….

 

I live in a town called West Byfleet. I can find it easily due to the confluence of the Basingstoke Canal and the River Wey navigation…

 

the whole town is missing (as is Woking, scene of the start of War of the worlds!). While this is a personal shame I understand due to performance not all towns and villages could go in…

 

what bugs me - is the complete lack of Brooklands in a wwii map… it’s where Hawker and Vickers were based - hell, that factory made 1 in 3 Hurricanes, and a lot of Wellingtons!

 

any chance we can at least get industry buildings there?

 

(Grid 0211.9)

 

The reason I am passionate about it is that it is now a museum (www.Brooklandsmuseum.com) and I used to volunteer there and look after this old bird… 

 

https://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/explore/heritage-and-collection/our-collection/hawker-hurricane-mkiia

[tattywelshie]

I do wonder guys, if any of the previous maps have ever been this closely scrutinised by a large proportion of users, due to the fact we actually live where the map is based? There were probably urban areas in Russia might have been overlooked, but no one realised. I do think, as said previously that this isn't MFS and there are bound to be areas that are missed, or not modelled 100% accurately, it's a combat flight sim, not a 'flight sim'. Yeah hedges could do with coming in, but to knit pick every single urban area is a little bit unfair on the devs.

[Vendigo]

4 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

 to knit pick every single urban area is a little bit unfair on the devs.

 

Not every single urban area but just including the most important ones would be nice. 

 

Spoiler

Have you seen what they did to Bastogne in BOBP? 

 

[Chief_Mouser]

15 minutes ago, SIA_ArcTander said:

Got to say the map looks lovely, but as a Brit who lives in the area I have a fairly major nitpick….

 

I live in a town called West Byfleet. I can find it easily due to the confluence of the Basingstoke Canal and the River Wey navigation…

 

the whole town is missing (as is Woking, scene of the start of War of the worlds!). While this is a personal shame I understand due to performance not all towns and villages could go in…

 

what bugs me - is the complete lack of Brooklands in a wwii map… it’s where Hawker and Vickers were based - hell, that factory made 1 in 3 Hurricanes, and a lot of Wellingtons!

 

any chance we can at least get industry buildings there?

 

(Grid 0211.9)

 

The reason I am passionate about it is that it is now a museum (www.Brooklandsmuseum.com) and I used to volunteer there and look after this old bird… 

 

https://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/explore/heritage-and-collection/our-collection/hawker-hurricane-mkiia

 

Unfortunately, the choice of built-up areas appears to have been done by someone who isn't in any way acquainted with the area. I got a few things adjusted slightly during testing but there was no way it could be overhauled entirely. It's a shame that they didn't ask.

Edited September 8, 2022 by 216th_Cat

[senseispcc]

12 hours ago, F19_Haddock said:

Le Mont Saint Michel is missing. How could you... ?

 

Awesome update otherwise! Congrats!

Outside the map logical like some should say! a great map. Remember the Typhoon has a very short range!

[15[Span.]/JG51Chajas]

GOOD WORK!!!!!

[dburne]

20 minutes ago, CrazyJow said:

Has ai been fixed yet? Will they engage ground targets and air targets properly now? Or do I need to still need to let ai run the sortie and me fly in the 2-4 position just so they actually drop their weapons or engage. Otherwise I could spam attack ground or air and nothing would happen. I've watched ai teammates just fly straight while doing nothing about an aircraft closing in and shooting at them. Same with ground attacking and ai never even dropping their load. Has loading times been addressed yet and slow UI? It's mind numbing the slowness of loading and UI clunkiness. I hope these have addressed. I did not see any mention the patch notes. 

 

From the patch notes:

Quote

There are many other fixes and improvements - for instance, the mission loading time has been reduced dramatically, several times less on some PC configurations!

 

[JG27_Steini]

2 minutes ago, Vendigo said:

 

Not every single urban area but just including the most important ones would be nice. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Have you seen what they did to Bastogne in BOBP? 

 

 

How much money more would spend for this work? How much longer would you have been waiting to complete?

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, tattywelshie said:

I do wonder guys, if any of the previous maps have ever been this closely scrutinised by a large proportion of users, due to the fact we actually live where the map is based? There were probably urban areas in Russia might have been overlooked, but no one realised. I do think, as said previously that this isn't MFS and there are bound to be areas that are missed, or not modelled 100% accurately, it's a combat flight sim, not a 'flight sim'. Yeah hedges could do with coming in, but to knit pick every single urban area is a little bit unfair on the devs.

Good point & I agree. I can't believe that infastructure, museums or roads are being dissected & moaned about when the whole 'feel' of the map is completely wrong & in my opinion, that is just down to the total lack of a hedgerow-infested patchwork quilt that makes up the UK & France.

Yes it's a combat flight sim not MSFS so why worry about the fact that your favourite museum ain't there or that one town is too close to another & that certain road shouldn't be there when the fundementals, the building blocks of the map is all wrong.

As of yet, Cliffs of Dover still have the best representation of that part of the world & sadly it's not an option toi fix this. At least 60% or more of the trees would need to go instantly & the entire map to be covered in hedges. That's not a fix, that's a complete rework,

Edited September 8, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[CountZero]

oh great like the game didnt already have to many pk kills...

 

26. Aircraft DM: the several years old ‘crew health cheat’ (they required four point-blank 7.62 bullets in the torso or two in the head to be killed) has been removed. Now their ability to sustain damage is much more close to reality.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

28 minutes ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

Well if that's the case then you simply can't provide a map of your intended subject that has hedges completely dominate its countryside. It's that simple. Why is there no Pacific theatre? Because they say they wouldn't be able to do the sim justice as the knowledge is limited. No different here. If you can't do the theatre map justice because you can't create hedgerows & English farmland then don't do it.

Honestly, every map will have compromises. Even MSFS2020 isn't perfect, and that game's budget is a multitude of IL2's (not to mention they've got the enormous resources and databases of Microsoft to support them). With standards as high as that we wouldn't even have a Normandy module at all since it would not be financially attainable.

 

28 minutes ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

But come on, Dover Castle's there, so how hard can it be to portray some simple form of networked hedgerows.

Those are... not even related. Dover castle is a single 3d model. You assign it to a 3d artist, and you can be quite sure he can do it with a certain quality and within a certain amount of time. To do create hedges that fit the landscape, you basically need to create and/or modify geometry on the fly, and that means creating a whole new system. That's a multi-disciplinary task with many pitfalls, all of which could move the development timeline several weeks into the future.

 

I get it that you're disappointed that the area doesn't look like what you're used to. But the game does show the *general* outline and landscape of southern England, and in my opinion that's all that can be expected from a combat flight simulator. If you discard the game just because the foliage is a bit, well, taller at places, you're missing out on what's going to be some hugely fun air combat.

Edited September 8, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[PA_Keko_]

Amazing map!!! Thank you for this new update!!!!! 

I had  tested with VR and  is wonderful 

 

Cheers!!!

 

[BOO]

5 minutes ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

Good point & I agree. I can't believe that infastructure, museums or roads are being dissected & moaned about when the whole 'feel' of the map is completely wrong & in my opinion, that is just down to the total lack of a hedgerow-infested patchwork quilt that makes up the UK & France.

Yes it's a combat flight sim not MSFS so why worry about the fact that your favourite museum ain't there or that one town is too close to another & that certain road shouldn't be there when the fundementals, the building blocks of the map is all wrong.

As of yet, Cliffs of Dover still have the best representation of that part of the world & sadly it's not an option toi fix this. At least 60% or more of the trees would need to go instantly & the entire map to be covered in hedges. That's not a fix, that's a complete rework,

Slighlty twisting things there - Brooklands was a bit more than a favorite museum at the time and quite an iconic featire on the landscape. Argrments for its inclusion are, I think, fair points well raised and its probably more doable than the hedges so why not?. Certainly more resonable that some other nick picks. 

 

BTW - I aint seen an oasthouse yet.....

[senseispcc]

This is a simulation, not reality, the millions of people how live and died during this period of the second world war are not there also !

Lucky us the horrors of war are not us to feel or to see. It is a simulation on a PC, a machine with it limits, be realistic! My PC could not recreate the details most ask for and still run smoothly. I m very happy of the quality of the terrain details and this include the sky and the sea, rivers, towns, how  lucky us,. all the civilian we could kill, but we are not murderess but players! The game is not perfect but nearly so in the limits of the technical possibilities of today machines. Yes it could be betters but how long more could you way for a very lot of details that should maybe slow the game down?!  It is the first version it shall be better see the progress of the pervious games with each update, planes, terrain, skies, flying characteristics are all more realistic with each update. I thank the team how produce this game for their efforts and miracles and all this without asking us to have better pc's with each version of the game! Plus this is not the type of game that everyone plays we are a small group of people how are never happy! But still play, after for some 40 year of air simulations, remember the first one!   STOP WINNIG because a street is not going in the right direction on the map! Have fun.

Edited September 8, 2022 by senseispcc
corrections

[Irishratticus72]

Gerald, it's, it's not that sort of Crusade.

[Jaegermeister]

1 hour ago, unclepants said:

I wanted to see the UK, but the QM only starts in France...

 

Just scroll up on the map by grabbing and dragging with your mouse.

 

1 hour ago, unclepants said:

Quick Missions doesn't place UK models (most of them anyway, the Chain Home radar was in place) to make it 'quicker' as all the Quick Missions were in France. 

 

In the QMB and AQMB, buildings are placed within the range set by your graphics settings. I believe it's 20 km, 50 km or infinite

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Honestly, every map will have compromises. Even MSFS2020 isn't perfect, and that game's budget is a multitude of IL2's (not to mention they've got the enormous resources and databases of Microsoft to support them). With standards as high as that we wouldn't even have a Normandy module at all since it would not be financially attainable.

 

Those are... not even related. Dover castle is a single 3d model. You assign it to a 3d artist, and you can be quite sure he can do it with a certain quality and within a certain amount of time. To do create hedges that fit the landscape, you basically need to create and/or modify geometry on the fly, and that means creating a whole new system. That's a multi-disciplinary task with many pitfalls, all of which could move the development timeline several weeks into the future.

 

I get it that you're disappointed that the area doesn't look like what you're used to. But the game does show the *general* outline and landscape of southern England, and in my opinion that's all that can be expected from a combat flight simulator. If you discard the game just because the foliage is a bit, well, taller at places, you're missing out on what's going to be some hugely fun air combat.

Poor excuse on the part of the devs there. Cliffs of Dover managed it really quite admirabley in 2011. We paid into a project that was a portrayal of 1940's Normandy & Southern England. Every 1940's combat aviation enthusiast would know what kind of terrain that entails so I'm quite sure the devs would have. The area doesn't look quite like what I'm used to? It's nothing like it, nor even close & is light years away from generalising the outline & landscape of Southern England.

Like I said. We've never had a Pacific campaign because the devs feel they wouln't be able to do it justice through lack of knowledge but what you're saying is that it would take so much time & effort to produce a plausible means of representing hedgerows so forget it altogether & still chuck it out there even though we can't do a good job in representing the map (all it needs is masses of hedgerows).

Yes the air combat's fun & that's what a combat flight simulator is all about. I'm not worrying in the slightest that the towns & infastructure is all wrong, I'm only hugely disappointed that they couldn't get the fundamentals right ... & just quite frankly ignored it. I love pulling the trigger as much as the next simmer but I have passion & respect for realism & effort ... & in my opinion, this map falls way short of such accolades.

1 hour ago, senseispcc said:

This is a simulation, not reality, the millions of people how live and died during this period of the second world war are not there also !

Lucky us the horrors of war are not us to feel or to see. It is a simulation on a PC, a machine with it limits, be realistic! My PC could not recreate the details most ask for and still run smoothly. I m very happy of the quality of the terrain details and this include the sky and the sea, rivers, towns, how  lucky us,. all the civilian we could kill, but we are not murderess but players! The game is not perfect but nearly so in the limits of the technical possibilities of today machines. Yes it could be betters but how long more could you way for a very lot of details that should maybe slow the game down?!  It is the first version it shall be better see the progress of the pervious games with each update, planes, terrain, skies, flying characteristics are all more realistic with each update. I thank the team how produce this game for their efforts and miracles and all this without asking us to have better pc's with each version of the game! Plus this is not the type of game that everyone plays we are a small group of people how are never happy! But still play, after for some 40 year of air simulations, remember the first one!   STOP WINNIG because a street is not going in the right direction on the map! Have fun.

Look up the term simulation. And once again I seem to be being breated for worrying about roads, museums, towns etc etc. I couldn't care less if a road was going the wrong way, what colour the Kings Arms roof is in Dover. I only wished for the fundamentals to be right & they're not. And they're not by a considerable margin.

It's a map I don't relate to, the map beneath me looks nothing like southern England but I shall stop whining to satiate your demands & will suitably chastise myself for expressing an opinion of disappointment & bafflement.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

I already posted it back in the day.
But it is true what concerns the Vegetation, we have not had change. Hopefully in the future this type of thing will be valued more, and more knowing that later you have the possibility of going with your vehicles through those areas
I understand that the devs have X problems to implement it, they will have reasons, but stop denying the undeniable, the map in terms of vegetation does not correspond to reality.

[ST_Catchov]

Guys, if there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean for the May queen. 
 

[FoxbatRU]

IMHO ?

 

[BOO]

3 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

Guys, if there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean for the May queen. 
 

Think thats the issue - there is no bush to bustle in- and the may queen? she got taken out by townie hare coursers as a result

[E69_Cananas]

3 hours ago, GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk said:

 an $80 map...

 

Well, as reminder, but I am sure you know it, this is not an 80$ map.

 

With the budget assigned to develop the map, this a huge leap forward compared with previous ones.

 

But, if you think you can do better, you are welcome. Hoping your tree mod to apply.

Edited September 8, 2022 by E69_Cananas

[Rjel]

1 minute ago, E69_Cananas said:

Well, as reminder, but I am sure you know it, this is not an 80$ map.

 

With the budget assigned to develop the map, this a huge leap forward compared with previous ones.

 

But, if you think you can do better, you are welcome.

To paraphrase - You can please some of the simmers all of the time. You can please all of the simmers some of the time. But you can't please all of the simmers all of the time.

 

For myself, I'll enjoy what is here. There is always room for improvement to be certain, but what I see so far offers many more hours of enjoyment. But then, I'm easy to please I guess.

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

51 minutes ago, E69_Cananas said:

Well, as reminder, but I am sure you know it, this is not an 80$ map.

 

With the budget assigned to develop the map, this a huge leap forward compared with previous ones.

 

But, if you think you can do better, you are welcome.

We will agree to differ here big time if you think map development has come forward with this. And no I couldn't because it's not my job I build military helicopters not make flightsim terrain. But I do have eyes that can read. I read of an impending map providing unrivalled detail of Normandy & Southern England.

 

[Jade_Monkey]

@GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk, you are spamming and crapping all over the release announcement. 

 

Maybe a walk and a cup of tea?

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

@GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk, you are spamming and crapping all over the release announcement. 

 

Maybe a walk and a cup of tea?

Sorry. Didn't mean to. Was very Passionate for this maps release & was expecting some kind've realism but yeah, good advice. Maybe you're right. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[Ribbon]

I would say map is generic il2 map with a bit improved cities layout and cliffs, nothing spectacular and outside towns sterile same as BoBp map.....i must say i expected more since it was 3years into development (double than previous maps).

Maybe to add some farms and villages, trees of different sizes and to adjust tree size vs. houses and buildings (buildings/towns look miniature comapred to the trees).

Maybe dcs Channel map spoiled me but i expected more from 3years development.