Take off bug in new version

[saldy]

Airplanes rotate in place in all my missions. What happened? ?

 

Spoiler

 

[saldy]

This is a very serious error ? . This is from ohers campaigns Griffons and Fury. Take off script it often works badly.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by saldy

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I'm not able to run IL2 myself to test this (my PC is having some heating issues ), but it just strikes me as very odd that you are the only one who's reporting this issue. If this was a bug in IL2 introduced with the last update, then surely someone would have posted something in either the update thread, the Technical Issues and Bug Reports forum, or the threads for the Griffons and Fury campaigns (since you mention those specifically as suffering from the problem)?

 

This leads me to believe that there might be something wrong with your install. Do you use any mods, by any chance? Those are notorious for messing up the game in all kinds of strange ways if they're active when the game is updated. Anyhow, if you're on Steam, you can verify the integrity of the game files. If you use the standalone version of IL2, I'm afraid a complete re-installation is the only way to fix a corrupted install, if that's what causes it.

[saldy]

I have it confirmed by two players

 

[SYN_Vander]

20 minutes ago, saldy said:

I have it confirmed by two players

 

 

I've seen this as well and reported it in the beta test forum. It is now known by the devs.

 

21 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I'm not able to run IL2 myself to test this (my PC is having some heating issues ), but it just strikes me as very odd that you are the only one who's reporting this issue. If this was a bug in IL2 introduced with the last update, then surely someone would have posted something in either the update thread, the Technical Issues and Bug Reports forum, or the threads for the Griffons and Fury campaigns (since you mention those specifically as suffering from the problem)?

 

This leads me to believe that there might be something wrong with your install. Do you use any mods, by any chance? Those are notorious for messing up the game in all kinds of strange ways if they're active when the game is updated. Anyhow, if you're on Steam, you can verify the integrity of the game files. If you use the standalone version of IL2, I'm afraid a complete re-installation is the only way to fix a corrupted install, if that's what causes it.

 

More people have seen this: 

 

Example:

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by SYN_Vander

[AEthelraedUnraed]

36 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

I've seen this as well and reported it in the beta test forum. It is now known by the devs.

Yes, well, I don't have access there Anyway, if it's a confirmed bug and the Devs know about it, I'm sure there's a fix on its way.

 

Still odd there's not much more ruckus about this bug, which makes me believe it only happens in certain circumstances. You mention it might have something to do with the wind speed; in that case setting a lower wind speed might be a temporary workaround to get your missions working again @saldy.

[354thFG_Leifr]

We've been reporting behaviour like this for a while in PWCG. The AI is pretty hit and miss with its ability to take off... seems sort of important for a flight sim. The problem is greatly exacerbated during winter.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Leifr

[DD_Friar]

I reported a similar issue when using the EMG (planes in the second flight going too soon and crashing into the planes in front or not taking off at all) but it seems to have been fixed now.

[SYN_Vander]

10 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Yes, well, I don't have access there Anyway, if it's a confirmed bug and the Devs know about it, I'm sure there's a fix on its way.

 

Still odd there's not much more ruckus about this bug, which makes me believe it only happens in certain circumstances. You mention it might have something to do with the wind speed; in that case setting a lower wind speed might be a temporary workaround to get your missions working again @saldy.

 

It's a very weird bug. In the video you can see the wind speed =0 so that also is not a factor. But I was able to recreate it with a test mission where it happens every time. Very odd.

Edited August 17, 2022 by SYN_Vander

[352ndOscar]

I think the problem is that the sim is not properly programmed for proper take off procedures.  It just dumps all the mission aircraft onto the runway and executes the takeoff.  This is absolutely NOT how it should work.  Single-engined aircraft “may” takeoff side-by-side - but only 2 aircraft are allowed on the runway at a time.  The next element to take off is held at the end of the taxiway.  When the first element to takeoff is clear, the tower releases the next element to access the runway and the takeoff process is repeated.  Aircraft are not just “stacked” up on the runway.  The same procedure goes for multi-engined aircraft except that only 1 aircraft is permitted on the runway at a time and the next aircraft is held on the taxiway.  Only in very rare instances were aircraft ever stacked up on the runway like the sim currently does by default.  What the sim appears to tries to implement is what would later be called a Minimum Interval Take Off (MITO) procedure, which while had its roots in WW2, was not fully implemented until later, after the war, as a means of scrambling bombers off the airfield in the event of an incoming missile attack.  Note, that I’m not addressing aircraft assembly after takeoff.  That’s a completely different procedure and should implemented as such - either thru pilot training or in the case of this sim, as a separate piece of programming from the takeoff procedure.

Edited August 17, 2022 by 352ndOscar

[SYN_Vander]

33 minutes ago, 352ndOscar said:

I think the problem is that the sim is not properly programmed for proper take off procedures.  It just dumps all the mission aircraft onto the runway and executes the takeoff.  This is absolutely NOT how it should work.  Single-engined aircraft “may” takeoff side-by-side - but only 2 aircraft are allowed on the runway at a time.  The next element to take off is held at the end of the taxiway.  When the first element to takeoff is clear, the tower releases the next element to access the runway and the takeoff process is repeated.  Aircraft are not just “stacked” up on the runway.  The same procedure goes for multi-engined aircraft except that only 1 aircraft is permitted on the runway at a time and the next aircraft is held on the taxiway.  Only in very rare instances were aircraft ever stacked up on the runway like the sim currently does by default.  What the sim appears to tries to implement is what would later be called a Minimum Interval Take Off (MITO) procedure, which while had its roots in WW2, was not fully implemented until later, after the war, as a means of scrambling bombers off the airfield in the event of an incoming missile attack.  Note, that I’m not addressing aircraft assembly after takeoff.  That’s a completely different procedure and should implemented as such - either thru pilot training or in the case of this sim, as a separate piece of programming from the takeoff procedure.

 

Agreed. There is a lot to improve in this area.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, 352ndOscar said:

I think the problem is that the sim is not properly programmed for proper take off procedures.  It just dumps all the mission aircraft onto the runway and executes the takeoff.  This is absolutely NOT how it should work.  Single-engined aircraft “may” takeoff side-by-side - but only 2 aircraft are allowed on the runway at a time.  The next element to take off is held at the end of the taxiway.  When the first element to takeoff is clear, the tower releases the next element to access the runway and the takeoff process is repeated.  Aircraft are not just “stacked” up on the runway.  The same procedure goes for multi-engined aircraft except that only 1 aircraft is permitted on the runway at a time and the next aircraft is held on the taxiway.  Only in very rare instances were aircraft ever stacked up on the runway like the sim currently does by default.  What the sim appears to tries to implement is what would later be called a Minimum Interval Take Off (MITO) procedure, which while had its roots in WW2, was not fully implemented until later, after the war, as a means of scrambling bombers off the airfield in the event of an incoming missile attack.  Note, that I’m not addressing aircraft assembly after takeoff.  That’s a completely different procedure and should implemented as such - either thru pilot training or in the case of this sim, as a separate piece of programming from the takeoff procedure.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Was that the case for all belligerents?

 

In any case, this is a separate issue from rotating in place

[352ndOscar]

For US and UK, yes.  I’m not sure enough to commit for the others.

[IckyATLAS]

I have checked in my campaign and missions where I have multiple planes taking of from a runway and there is absolutely no change on the taxi or take-off behavior due to the last update.

This said I have much more space between the aircraft. In the video that I see above in this thread aircraft are much too densely packed. Each aircraft has a collision bubble around it for taxiing (which maybe different in flight) and when two aircraft are too near they start moving to avoid collision, and the first thing they do is to rotate and change course. 

This is even more true the larger the aircraft is. For bombers or alike you need to have enough space around. 

I cannot judge if in the previous version the collision avoidance distance was maybe shorter and it has become larger. It is a possibility but I cannot check that as I always give much space to the bombers or fighters in my missions.

Edited August 18, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[SYN_Vander]

35 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

I have checked in my campaign and missions where I have multiple planes taking of from a runway and there is absolutely no change on the taxi or take-off behavior due to the last update.

This said I have much more space between the aircraft. In the video that I see above in this thread aircraft are much too densely packed. Each aircraft has a collision bubble around it for taxiing (which maybe different in flight) and when two aircraft are too near they start moving to avoid collision, and the first thing they do is to rotate and change course. 

This is even more true the larger the aircraft is. For bombers or alike you need to have enough space around. 

I cannot judge if in the previous version the collision avoidance distance was maybe shorter and it has become larger. It is a possibility but I cannot check that as I always give much space to the bombers or fighters in my missions.

 

In that mission I added more separation between the AI aircraft, even more problems. Let's see what the devs will find...

 

[Habu]

There is a problem in the take off (which has been reported by Vander and me after some tests), but rotating plane can be another problem, i encountered it a long time ago, and reported.

 

It could be link to a taxi point which is closer.

 

The AI plane will go to the closer taxi point.

 

So if i take the last screen of Vander. Orange circle and line display taxipoint. The top circle should be upper, but i can't put it upper on that screen.

 

The spitfire will go forward because they are close to the taxipoint in front of them.

 

P38 will turn around and go to the closer taxipoint, even if they are after the taxipoint.

 

I'm pretty sure that the problem which has Vander is a taxi point problem which is confirmed by the test you(ve done in extending the separation.

 

If you provide me the mission, i can check that point.

 

The solution is to move the entire group forward, and check the distance between the last plane in the line and the taxi point.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Habu

[SYN_Vander]

4 minutes ago, Habu said:

There is a problem in the take off (which has been reported by Vander and me after some tests), but rotating plane can be another problem, i encountered it a long time ago, and reported.

 

It could be link to a taxi point which is closer.

 

The AI plane will go to the closer taxi point.

 

So if i take the last screen of Vander. Orange circle and line display taxipoint. The top circle should be upper, but i can't put it upper on that screen.

 

The spitfire will go forward because they are close to the taxipoint in front of them.

 

P38 will turn around and go to the closer taxipoint, even if they are after the taxipoint.

 

I'm pretty sure that the problem which has Vander is a taxi point problem which is confirmed by the test you(ve done in extending the separation.

 

If you provide me the mission, i can check that point.

 

The solution is to move the entire group forward, and check the distance between the last plane in the line and the taxi point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The aircraft have takeoff command without taxi, so they should not be affected by any taxi-points. But this could be the bug that has to be fixed.

[Habu]

1 hour ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

The aircraft have takeoff command without taxi, so they should not be affected by any taxi-points. But this could be the bug that has to be fixed.

In that case, i agree that thy shouldn't have the problem i described.

 

I should have time that afternoon to run some tests.

[Taurus]

Does this happen on all runway textures? Only the new ones?? I have had the issue of sliding aircraft with full brakes on with other sims. (Texture friction values?)

Edited August 22, 2022 by Taurus

[Habu]

6 hours ago, SYN_Vander said:

6 hours ago, Habu said:

There is a problem in the take off (which has been reported by Vander and me after some tests), but rotating plane can be another problem, i encountered it a long time ago, and reported.

 

It could be link to a taxi point which is closer.

 

The AI plane will go to the closer taxi point.

 

So if i take the last screen of Vander. Orange circle and line display taxipoint. The top circle should be upper, but i can't put it upper on that screen.

 

The spitfire will go forward because they are close to the taxipoint in front of them.

 

P38 will turn around and go to the closer taxipoint, even if they are after the taxipoint.

 

I'm pretty sure that the problem which has Vander is a taxi point problem which is confirmed by the test you(ve done in extending the separation.

 

If you provide me the mission, i can check that point.

 

The solution is to move the entire group forward, and check the distance between the last plane in the line and the taxi point.

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

 

The aircraft have takeoff command without taxi, so they should not be affected by any taxi-points. But this could be the bug that has to be fixed.

I ran some tests (Multiplayer) and i can't reproduce in the last beta version (on lapino), not public.

 

Do you use the public version ?

 

May you check again that the checkbox without taxing is right checked.

 

@Taurus : We can't answer to all question as we are under NDA and some features are still WIP, but differents textures can have diferents issues.

The take off problem is on Lapino map too. So there is a problem or several problems.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

15 hours ago, Taurus said:

Does this happen on all runway textures? Only the new ones?? I have had the issue of sliding aircraft with full brakes on with other sims. (Texture friction values?)

At least on the current version of the game, textures don't affect the surface (friction, smoothness etc.)

[IckyATLAS]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:06 PM, Taurus said:

Does this happen on all runway textures? Only the new ones?? I have had the issue of sliding aircraft with full brakes on with other sims. (Texture friction values?)

In my missions where I tested it was on Kuban map and I have grass and concrete (Krasnodar) and did not have the issue. Maybe on other maps like BOBp where there are much more concrete runway airfields there may be an issue. One possibility may be related to the width of the concrete runway. On grass it is a field so width is not an issue.

Krasnodar runway has a large width. But on narrow concrete runways may be there is an issue.

Edited August 24, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[Mtnbiker1998]

I've also had this issue in the P-38 Lightning Strikes campaign. I suspect this is a game bug and not just mission issues? The planes seem to spawn and rotate before taking off in their newly chosen direction (Notice E_1 and E_2 starting their runs off the runway into one of the myriad beautiful scenery objects) 

 

 

[jollyjack]

Hell Hawks Campaign: I just had a nice mess up in mission 4, take of on autopilot. Flight scattered all over the runway ...

Now there's no way alas us mortals can fix this ourselves; bloody cpmbin file LoL.

Edited August 24, 2022 by jollyjack