Leak: Zen4 to have massive base clock and boost increase.

[Jaws2002]

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-16-core-zen4-ryzen-9-7950x-cpu-allegedly-boosts-up-to-5-7-ghz

 

The leak is saying that the 16 core Ryzen 7950x will have 4.5Ghz base clock (1.2GHz higher than last gen) and a boost clock of up to 5.7GHz (last version had 4.9GHz Boost)

  The article is predicting that all the Zen 4 chips will get massive boost in clock speeds.

 

Zen 4 is supposed to be unveiled on 29th this month and released on September 13th.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-announce-ryzen-7000-on-august-29th-launching-september-15th

Edited August 4, 2022 by Jaws2002

[BMA_FlyingShark]

Hopefully it'll use the AM4 socket.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[jollyjack]

Wonder if I could use such a Ryzen CPU as heater for a cup of tea then ... could be nice in these expensive energy times in the EU.

Edited August 4, 2022 by jollyjack

[Nadelbaum]

1 hour ago, FlyingShark said:

Hopefully it'll use the AM4 socket.

 

Have a nice day.

 

AM5 and DDR5 only, at least for the first models to be launched

[AngleOff66]

Well,

 

It will be interesting to see how these work.  Now if we could just get a techtuber like Hardware unboxed to test Sturmovik and the other game it would really help us know.

 

I would like to see the 7700 with 100mb cache rather than the 40 myself.

 

 

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, jollyjack said:

Wonder if I could use such a Ryzen CPU as heater for a cup of tea then ... could be nice in these expensive energy times in the EU.

 

If that doesn't wok, you could always get one of the upcoming Nvidia GPU's. Everyone is talking their top cards will suck over 600W of power under load, so that will heat up your tea....and room as well. 

 My stupid 3080Ti was sucking 450W, under load, before the undervolt. ?

[Dagwoodyt]

54 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

If that doesn't wok, you could always get one of the upcoming Nvidia GPU's. Everyone is talking their top cards will suck over 600W of power under load, so that will heat up your tea....and room as well. 

 My stupid 3080Ti was sucking 450W, under load, before the undervolt. ?

I guess the only environmentally responsible way to launch 600-850W gpu's is to make them so expensive and difficult to obtain that only a few can afford a system to fully utilize them?

[Jaws2002]

5 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I guess the only environmentally responsible way to launch 600-850W gpu's is to make them so expensive and difficult to obtain that only a few can afford a system to fully utilize them?

 

 This isn't about environmental BS politics. All that power generates a lot of heat. All that heat then ends up next to you in the room. The AC helps, but in months when i don't use AC it's too much. 

 I think these power requirements, at least on the Nvidia side, passed practical levels. Too much heat, too much noise, if the cards are air cooled.

[AngleOff66]

I do not know so I ask, does having GPU's with such high TPD shorten lifespans of the GPU?  Considering what they may be asking for $$ wise I hope not!

[Jaws2002]

6 minutes ago, AngleOff66 said:

I do not know so I ask, does having GPU's with such high TPD shorten lifespans of the GPU?  Considering what they may be asking for $$ wise I hope not!

 

I don't know. 

 I know there are longevity issues with the GDR6x memory, that Nvidia is using on their 3000 gen cards. The memory is running too hot and there were cards dying prematurely.

[dburne]

32 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

I don't know. 

 I know there are longevity issues with the GDR6x memory, that Nvidia is using on their 3000 gen cards. The memory is running too hot and there were cards dying prematurely.

 

I had an EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 die on me. It was one of the first batch.  Luckily the replacement I received so far as had no issues and I game with it quite a lot. In all my years of running GPU's and EVGA especially that was the first failure I have ever had.

Edited August 4, 2022 by dburne

[Dagwoodyt]

Seems like the wattage race is a con. Yes, heat is definitely an issue so it's necessary to undervolt to keep from frying the card and my room. I have a 2-plug 3080Ti and have to check at every startup that Afterburner has not reverted to default settings instead of using my undervolt. I think many of these cards have inadequate cooling solutions even placed in a tower case that has 6-8 case fans. Seems like the 3090Ti has a better cooling solution but uses more real estate, assuming it will even fit. The makers know that most users cannot get full use of what they are selling.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[Jaws2002]

Absolutely agree. Even if you have the cooling necessary for the card, all that heat creates an uncomfortable heat spot next to your desk. You have the AC blowing cold air one side and the computer blowing heat in your face, on the other side.

 Nvidia had less efficient chips this generation and in order to beat AMD in benchmarks, they pushed the cards and memory to uncomfortable high power limits. 

 They knew that all the youtubers will just benchmark the cards in extremely powerful and very well cooled test systems. Everyone was talking about FPS and nobody thought to talk about the fact that these cards became powerful space heaters.

 Now they plan to push the power limits even higher, to keep up.

 

When I'll replace this card, the power efficiency is going to be a major concern for me. I don't intend to get graphics cards that suck more than 400W.

 

[Voyager]

Replaced my 1080 Ti with a 3080 Ti last year and could definitely tell the difference this summer when it was under load. 

 

From what I understand, the AMD CPUs and GPUs are expected to be significantly less power hungry for their performance than the Intel/nVidia counterparts this cycle. One of the big advantages of their chiplette packaging now. 

 

That said, I don't know if we should expect huge performance out of this CPU generation. Zen 4 does look like it's going to clock way higher than Zen 3, but it's sounding like the IPC gain is less than they were hoping. Given Il-2 seems to be mostly single thread performance and memory intensive, I'd expect all the DDR5 stuff to be pretty similar.

 

I would expect we'd see the most lift with Zen 4 VCache hits, especially since its expected to be a fully mature technology by then, and hopefully won't require the compromises the 1st gen stuff did. 

 

I'm also cautiously optimistic of RDNA3 for Il-2. I suspect Lovelace will still be faster just because Il-2 and RDNA2 don't play nice, but I'm hoping it will be fast enough that any Il-2 issues won't matter to the same degree they do now. 

[Jaws2002]

Zen 4 is due to be officially unveiled tomorrow and there's a new juicy leak...

The 16 core 7950X may boost up to 5.85GHz. 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-zen4-cpu-f-max-frequency-reportedly-goes-up-to-5-85-ghz

 

 

[dburne]

7 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Zen 4 is due to be officially unveiled tomorrow and there's a new juicy leak...

The 16 core 7950X may boost up to 5.85GHz. 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-zen4-cpu-f-max-frequency-reportedly-goes-up-to-5-85-ghz

 

 

 

Now we're talking...

 

[Jaws2002]

Live release of Zen 4.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

Being the new 7600X a little bit above the 12900K and for 299$!, it seems it would be the most worth option for IL-2 VR.

If I had to make a new build in september/october I would try with the 7600X and a X670 Mobo (not B650).

 

 

 

My current 5600X is currently performing well in the CPU demand of IL-2 VR (for and Index at 80Hz), so far really not need to upgrade CPU. But let´s see how it goes with Normandy.

[Jaws2002]

Yup. I'm in the same boat. I'll skip this generation.

AMD is steadily progressing in all areas, it seems. Higher IPC, much higher boost, better efficiency, higher multicore performance.

 For gaming the gains don't look that high as last time, but they are working on the 3D cache version of Zen4 and that one will most likely push the gaming performance quite a bit higher.

 All in all good job.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Jaws2002

[dburne]

I think I will wait till around early 2024 for a new mobo/cpu build. GPU I will upgrade it when released (4090). But then I will likely need to upgrade my 1000w PSU so who knows.

[Voyager]

There's good reason to believe we could see the Zen 4 VCache versions as soon as Q1 next year. It sounds like they use the same cache chips as their server parts, so it's easy to do, just more expensive. 

 

The thought I'm hearing is that AMD would likely use them if the 13900K beats them in single thread gaming performance. Basically, they'll steal the march on Intel and have Zen 4 out in bulk before Raptor Lake is out the door, then after Raptor Lake is out and showing parity with Zen 4, they release the VCache versions and stomp all over it. 

 

And because they're using chiplettes, they aren't locked into any of this. They can just shift parts wherever the market wants them. 

 

Yes, I'm being really excited by their logistics process. Historically, monolithic architectures take a long time to develop and change, and once you've laid in an order, that's what you're going to get, even if market conditions change. But, chiplette designs make tbd whole thing much more flexible. I've even heard rumors that the Zen 4 IO chip talks with Zen2/3 processor cores, so we could even end up seeing low cost/ultra-low power CPUs on the AM5 platform in the future.

 

I really hope Intel can get their version up and running soon. Really don't want another Sky Lake era. 

[Dallas88B]

It seems that about 86% of IL2 players use NVIDIA GPU's https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/76863-dd-305-video-card-survey/ but only about 25% use the 3000 series cards. In times past folk have had problems with the AMD GPU's in IL2. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/77929-best-gpu-for-il2/

 

I use Intel and NVIDIA but in considering upgrades, I am attracted to the new generation AMD CPU and GPU given the lower power use and (mostly because of) the lower heat output.

 

I am wondering if the challenges using AMD were driver issues at the time and this has all be resolved now.... If anyone has any experience with AMD in IL2 (or other flight SIM and games) these days could you share it please?

 

[Jaws2002]

There were no issues with AMD GPU's in this game. I switched to AMD CPU's when Zen2 came out and I'm now on Zen3 and didn't have any problems, in this game or any other.

There were some performance issues with AMD graphics cards. I don't know if they fixed them.

 

About the Zen4 3D Cache, Hot hardware was saying few days ago that it should be released around two months after the standard Zen 4.

If that's the case, they are probably just waiting for the intel to release their next chip and then tune the 3Dcache performance to beat it.

EDIT.

 

And some 7950X benchmark leaks are out already.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-and-asus-rog-crosshair-x670e-extreme-also-tested-in-geekbench

 

Looks like it has quite a performance advantage over the current AMD and Intel chips, but is just shy of the upcoming top intel CPU.

Based on this leak, Raptor Lake i9-13900K is overclocked and has only under 5% advantage over 7950x, so i think the 3d Cache version of Zen 4 will have the crown in this release.

It's good they are close. Competition is a good thing.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Jaws2002

[Boomerang]

I've always liked seeing the new hardware tech evolve over the years, especially when efficiently is taken into consideration.

If it works, is stable, does what you need it to and doesn't cost an arm and leg, (considering longer term as well), I'd choose efficiency and stability at the end of the day, especially on more matured hardware.

Nothing against anyone whom chooses otherwise, after all, it's an individuals choice, (relating to experience, time and cost).

 

[Voyager]

@Dallas88B RDNA2 has some sort of issue with Il-2. RDNA1 performs in line with the nVidia cards. 

 

I don't believe it has been entirely fixed yet, however recent tests do seem to imply it is getting better. That said, for GPUs, I'd recommend waiting until the Lovelace and RDNA3 tests come out. My suspicion is RDNA2's issue may be conflicts between IL-2 and the cache system, however both Lovelace and RDNA3 use cache systems. But they also both use newer cache systems so they make both work great, or neither may work well, or one may work great and the other not, and it could be either. 

 

We are also at the first of a very big wave of used mining GPUs hitting the market, so regardless of how the new GPUs perform, we should have an easy time finding used 30 series cards on the market. 

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

however recent tests do seem to imply it is getting better

I have not seen yet tests of the AMD GPUs that show it is getting better. Last one was done at 120hz in VR and this provides a deviated results.

But anyone with an AMG GPU can test that.

I would love the IL-2 issues with that AMD cards will be resolved. Then, there will be more options in the market.

Edited August 31, 2022 by chiliwili69

[Voyager]

15 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I have not seen yet tests of the AMD GPUs that show it is getting better. Last one was done at 120hz in VR and this provides a deviated results.

But anyone with an AMG GPU can test that.

I would love the IL-2 issues with that AMD cards will be resolved. Then, there will be more options in the market.

 

Oh. I may have misinterpreted the recent results. I had thought that last round had actually come in showing they had closed some of the gap? 

 

I'm still leaning towards picking up oneyself once the initial general benchmarks are out*. I'm happy with the 60fps I'm getting in Il-2 with the 3080 Ti, but DCS and MSFS just need more power. I figure most early adopters here will go with Lovelace, especially if it releases first. 

 

*Have some unexpected repairs costs pop up that make kick my hobbies budget in the soft and squishies...

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

 

Oh. I may have misinterpreted the recent results. I had thought that last round had actually come in showing they had closed some of the gap? 

 

I'm still leaning towards picking up oneyself once the initial general benchmarks are out*. I'm happy with the 60fps I'm getting in Il-2 with the 3080 Ti, but DCS and MSFS just need more power. I figure most early adopters here will go with Lovelace, especially if it releases first. 

 

*Have some unexpected repairs costs pop up that make kick my hobbies budget in the soft and squishies...

 

I think they did close that gap pretty good, he is talking about only in IL-2 Great Battles. And perhaps only as referenced in benchmark.

Edited September 1, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

On 9/1/2022 at 12:04 AM, Voyager said:

Oh. I may have misinterpreted the recent results. I had thought that last round had actually come in showing they had closed some of the gap?

 

I was referring to the lastest tests performed by @Dustybritches in this post. Those test were executed at 120Hz, which can not be used to compare performance in VR for IL-2.

However, I am still intringued by one of his previous test at 150%SS with Pimax%5K+ at 90Hz where he was getting 74fps Avg. Which is +15fps than previous tests.

 

So perhaps AMD GPUs could be good then for IL-2 VR.  We need more tests from more people with AMD GPUs.

 

 

[Jaws2002]

Zen 4 CPU's reviews are out. Big multithreading performance jump, moderate gaming performance uplift, big jump in power consumption and a big jump in boost clocks.

 New boost behavior with this generation. The CPU is allowed to boost as high as it wants until it reaches the temperature threshold. It's no longer throttled when it hits the power limit.

 

https://videocardz.com/138525/amd-ryzen-7000-zen4-raphael-desktop-cpu-review-roundup

 

Looks like Der Bauer already delidded the 7900x and did a direct die cooling, with good results.

Everyone is saying that the CPU's feel much snappier in general.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Jaws2002

[chiliwili69]

Thanks for the news!

Hey, it is amazing the performance increase in FS2020 at 1440p from 5600X to 7600X (both DDR4 and DDR5):

look here:

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-amd-ryzen-9-7900x-ryzen-5-7600x-review?page=2

 

Let´s see how this trasnlate to IL-2 VR...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

As I skipped two gpu generation next  buy would be probably 4090 with new atx 3.0 psu . This might also require new CPU , last bought i9 10900 and I need to see how it would perform. I might finally switch to AMD if current CPU would bottleneck. Depends of the VR performance with MSFS.

[firdimigdi]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:30 AM, chiliwili69 said:

it is amazing the performance increase in FS2020 at 1440p from 5600X to 7600X

 

Tbh, I'm even more impressed by the 5800X3D in those benchmarks considering its 105W TDP.

[Jaws2002]

Yep. that one is still a monster gamer. I'm curious what 3d Zen 4 versions we'll get.

[ZachariasX]

Will be nice switching my Intel 7900X to an AMD 7900X ?

 

..But no hurry there...

[chiliwili69]

On 9/30/2022 at 6:47 PM, Firdimigdi said:

Tbh, I'm even more impressed by the 5800X3D in those benchmarks considering its 105W TDP.

 

Yes indeed. It seems that FS2020 performance is heavily dependet on L3 cache size,  so going from 5800X with 32MB to 96MB (5800X3D) is a big upgrade. In IL-2 there is also an improvement but it is much more modest.

 

The key thing here is that the performance increase in FS2020 going from 5600X (32Mb L3 cache, 105W TDP) to 7600X (32MB L3 cache, 105W TDP) is also amazing. Here the improvement is due to frequency rise and IPC. Those two items are also key for IL-2, so let´s see what that new chip brings to IL-2.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Look like in  FS2020  ryzen 7 5800X3D outperform ryzen 9 7950x, you can build better gaming PC for thise game (VR) for less $ (previous  generation parts).

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[chiliwili69]

the passmark Single-thread index was somehow correlated with the performance in IL-2, according to these early tests (only 4 samples) it seems that the new 13th gen is well above the Zen4:

 

 

Any one with the new Zen4 able to test it?