Planes not defending with trigger waypoint

[Youtch]

I am very recently making my first missions with STE mission editor, and after overcoming the steep learning curve, i am starting having a blast.

 

I program the enemy planes with onDamaged Event to follow a trigger waypoint with medium priority bringing them home. The issue that i have is while they are going home they do not do any defensive actions and i can go on their six and shoot them like duck with no reaction, which is a little bit of an immersion braker.

 

Any idea what i might have got wrong?

 

Any advice on how to ensure that planes on their way to a waypoint remains defensive if attacked?

 

Thank you very much in advance,

Y.

[Gambit21]

Are they fighters or bombers? “Planes” isn’t very descriptive.

 

 

Waypoit prioritily “low” will allow fighters to engage properly. 
 

 

“Bug out” needs to be ‘high’ priority regardless, then yes you have to account for being followed. So you can use proximity logic to make them re-engage…if they’re fighters.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Gambit21

[Youtch]

Many thanks for your answer.

 

I was referring to fighters.

 

I need to read on proximity logic.

 

Will it work for defence only or it will make fighters attack anything in their range?

 

Will they keep engagement to death or they will go back to the waypoint whenever getting the opportunity to escape again.

 

Many thanks again,

Y.

 

[Jaegermeister]

It's interesting that you bring this up now. I am struggling with the enemy fighters not bugging out at all again. I can put "Attack Area" on low priority and trigger a bugout waypoint on high priority and the enemy fighters will stay on station and fight to the death, I can't get them to leave the area at all regardless of settings, and they follow 50 km back to base. I believe the recent AI changes may be preventing them from returning to base again.

 

I did a test mission to see how the "on damaged" logic might work, and it's a bit complicated.

 

Here is the test mission if you want to take a look, but the enemy fighter will not leave the area regardless of damage. I have damage report set to 10%. I have AI return to base option checked, Attack Area on low or medium, and RTB waypoint on high. Makes no difference, he won't leave even if I run away.

 

 

Edit... Deleted mission file due to error 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[Youtch]

The ondamage event is checked only when receiving damage the first time or it applies while receiving more damage?

 

What are the conditions triggering BugOut in your mission do they remain activated and are checked again or it gets overriden by newer instructions?

 

From the excellent bible manual:

 

counter trigger is triggered by an OnDamaged event message link
from the factory complex objects. Here are the counter trigger advanced properties:
• Counter: 1
• Reset After Operation: Cleared
The counter trigger fires once only, so that it ignores multiple OnDamaged event messages
from a single factory complex object or simultaneous OnDamaged event messages

 

OnDamaged—The percent life remaining in an object after damage has fallen
below the value specified in the object advanced properties "Damage Report"
field.
• OnDamaged—This event is generated in the following cases, depending on the
setting of the "Damage: (Threshold|Step)" field of the object advanced
properties:
• Damage: (Threshold)–The percent life remaining in the object damage has
fallen below the value specified in the object advanced properties "Damage
Report" field.
• Damage: (Step)–The percentage of life lost for the object exceeds the value
in the object advanced properties "Damage Report" field.
For example, if "Damage Report" is 20, then OnDamaged is sent every time
another 20% of an object's life is lost.

 

Damage Report
Specifies a percent damage level that determines when an OnDamaged event message
is produced by the object. You set up the OnDamaged event message in the
"On Events Table" section of the dialog.
The damage level is a percentage of the object's "Durability" value, which is set in the
Object Properties Dialog (pg. 217). Durability defines how much damage an object can
take before it is destroyed. Objects other than airfield, block, bridge, and building have
built-in durability values.
The percent damage specified in this field represents either a damage threshold or
step-by-step damage amounts. For details, see the "Damage: (Threshold|Step)" option
in this topic.

Damage: (Threshold|Step)
Determines whether the "Damage Report" field represents either a damage threshold
or step-by-step damage amounts.
Selecting the Damage check box gives you "Damage: (Threshold)". In this case, the
OnDamaged message is sent once the percentage of durability remaining falls below
the value in "Damage Report". For example, if "Damage Report" is 75, then
OnDamaged is sent when 75% of the durability is left. After the threshold is passed,
additional damage produces additional OnDamaged messages.
Clearing the Damage check box gives you Damage: (Step). In this case, the OnDamaged
message is sent every time the percentage of durability lost exceeds the value in
"Damage Report". For example, if "Damage Report" is 20, then OnDamage is sent every
time another 20% of the durability is lost.

12 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Waypoit prioritily “low” will allow fighters to engage properly. 

On Low or on Medium for figthers? I thought medium was enough, and it is what I have configured.

 

Priority:
The priority of reaching the waypoint compared to other goals for the object.
Low –Objects can alter course to attack nearby enemies.
Medium–The object can alter course to defend itself from attacks.
High–The object does not alter course.
Note: The "Low" priority applies only to fighters without bombs.

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, Youtch said:

The ondamage event is checked only when receiving damage the first time or it applies while receiving more damage?

 

What are the conditions triggering BugOut in your mission do they remain activated and are checked again or it gets overriden by newer instructions?

 

 

 

I deactivated the proximity trigger after it is fired by "on damaged" once.

I did not use a counter, because I deactivated the MCU instead.

The RTB/Bugout is triggered by the enemy AC being damaged.

The logic is set so that the EAC bugs out when damaged, activating a proximity trigger from the EAC to any Allied AC. When the player is within 1000 meters of the EAC, it will return to attack and activate a 1 minute timer linked back to the high priority waypoint and reactivating a new proximity trigger. This could be done multiple times.

 

Thanks for posting the guide comments, I had the Threshold/Step limit backwards, but it does not matter. The EAC still does not cease attacking and can only be stopped by killing it. The High priority waypoint being activated does not make  it leave the area.

 

I will do some more tests, and if I can't get a better result I will report it as a bug. This issue is messing up a mission I am working on, which is why I was testing it anyway.

 

Here is the updated mission file so you can look at the logic, or test it if you want to. 

 

AI_Defend_Test.zip

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[Youtch]

55 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

activating a proximity trigger from the EAC to any Allied AC

 

Is the proximity trigger getting desactivated after being triggered? You need to desactivate it or it shoot once only.

 

Sorry i cannot run your mission, not in front of my computer, plus i am no expert.

 

Your problem is the opposite of mine, mine being plane fleeing like sitting duck and yours being enraged fighter to death.

 

[Jaegermeister]

57 minutes ago, Youtch said:

Is the proximity trigger getting desactivated after being triggered? You need to desactivate it or it shoot once only.

 

It is deactivated after triggering the Attack Area command, yes. Then a timer activates the RTB waypoint again so the EAC will continue on his way to escape after defending himself for 30 seconds, 1 minute, etc.

 

If you do not deactivate the Proximity trigger (or use a counter) it will fire again when the objects get out of range and then in range again. That could work, or you could use a second proximity trigger (set to further instead of closer) to deactivate the Attack Area MCU, trigger the waypoint, and reactivate the second proximity trigger. That would make a circular trigger that could trigger the waypoint at say... 4000 meters distance and then trigger the Attack Area at 1000 meters, as many times as it occurred. I actually like that idea better.

 

You will find there are many ways to skin the same cat in the ME.

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

 

I will do some more tests, and if I can't get a better result I will report it as a bug. This issue is messing up a mission I am working on, which is why I was testing it anyway.

 

 

 

Cool...let me know.

If the "waypoint/High Priority" logic is broken then a number of my campaign missions are broken.

 

[Youtch]

14 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

That would make a circular trigger that could trigger the waypoint at say... 4000 meters distance and then trigger the Attack Area at 1000 meters, as many times as it occurred

Just to make sure i understand, you are talking about setting up 2 proximity trigger? One to engage into combat if any is within 1000m and one to trigger the waypoint when the enemy is beyond 4000m?

 

So proximity triggers would be always activated on the way back to home. Isn t this part CPU intensive for missions with 20 planes? Or it is just the complex trigger that needs to be avoided?

 

Did i understand correctly?

 

That sounds indeed like an interesting idea.

[Jaegermeister]

@Youtch, You understood correctly. I usually have many Checkzones and Proximity or other types of triggers active. Hundreds. Is it CPU intensive? I don't really know. The alternative is to just not do things. I use Complex Triggers fairly often, I just wait to activate them until the Player is near them, and then deactivate them once they are used. 

 

@Gambit21, I did a separate test of the waypoint priorities and if both AC are triggered to deactivate the low priority Attack area, Command Force Complete, and then activate the High Priority RTB waypoint at the same time, they will disengage so the AI is not completely broken, it is just very stubborn. You have to get at least 9km away from an EAC for it to disengage from an Attack Air Command with a High Priority RTB Waypoint triggered.

 

What's broken is the damage report. Set on either "Step" or "Threshold" it takes 100% damage to generate a damage report. At that point it does no good, it might as well be "On Killed". I will definitely report that bug, but don't count on it being fixed right away. 

  

Here are the test missions if you want to try it or take a look at the revised logic.

 

AI_RTB_Test.zip

 

AI_Defend_Test_V2.zip

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[SYN_Vander]

24 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

@Youtch, You understood correctly. I usually have many Checkzones and Proximity or other types of triggers active. Hundreds. Is it CPU intensive? I don't really know. The alternative is to just not do things. I use Complex Triggers fairly often, I just wait to activate them until the Player is near them, and then deactivate them once they are used. 

 

 

 

I do remember I once used Complex Triggers for all AAA sites that needed to spawn when an enemy was near. I ran into the problem that if I activated them all at mission start there was a weird bug where AI would not follow waypoints anymore etc. Only if I delayed the activation of the Complex Triggers considerably would it work again.

So there is definitely an impact when you use/activate many Complex Triggers at the same time.

I have since replaced them with CheckArea's since they also work for online players.

[IckyATLAS]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:13 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

Cool...let me know.

If the "waypoint/High Priority" logic is broken then a number of my campaign missions are broken.

 

Same here.

 

 

On 6/27/2022 at 6:10 PM, Jaegermeister said:

will do some more tests, and if I can't get a better result I will report it as a bug.

Any results about the tests ? ?

Edited July 25, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[Jaegermeister]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:50 PM, IckyATLAS said:

Any results about the tests ? ?

 

Yes, but it is not totally predictable. If both of the flights are assigned an attack area and it is deactivated, they continue to fight. With the RTB option checked, some flights will return to base and some flights will stay and fight. Fighter flights will follow retreating enemy flights for about 9 kilometers outside of their attack area zone and then will either return to the attack area and circle or actually follow the high priority RTB waypoint. I have seen both results randomly. It's almost like the Attack Area MCU will not deactivate even with a Command Complete before activating the RTB waypoint, and the AI can't decide which one to follow.

 

The Damage Report is definitely not functioning and I have reported it.

 

The AI behavior regarding waypoint deactivation and ending an attack command seems to be a work in progress lately but I don't have any information on what's happening there. Recently I have seen AI flights following a medium priority waypoint that was at the end of a chain of deactivated waypoints instead of a high priority Attack Area MCU. I have started deactivating waypoints that I am done with after initiating attack commands to avoid weird behavior. I'm just going to wait and see what gets worked out, and keep my eye on it.