Three things I don't like about the Mosquito.

[Gingerwelsh]

1. Start the Take-Off run and there is a strong pull to the right. It should veer to the left, as in all twins with clockwise rotating props.

 

2. Take-Off should be made at 3000 rpm. The in game props can only make about 2730, gradually rising to 3000 at about 120 mph.

 

3. The rate of roll, is much too high, (about 4 seconds), in fact faster than most single engine fighters and matches the FW 190, (The King of Rate of Roll), which is why it is such a good dog fighter in game, unlike RL, where it was rated as inferiour to all German and British, except the Spit MK V,  fighters in this respect.

 

3a. Mosquito rockets were used exclusevely against shipping.

In game, the AP rocket requires 40 hits to sink a large ship.

6 SAP rockets are required  to sink the same ship, completely the opposite to real life, where only AP was used, after it was found that 60 lb SAP rockets lacked the power to penetrate ships hulls.

 

 

.. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Gingerwelsh
Added some clarification.

[jollyjack]

Which FW190? Guess the Mosquito needs some fine tuning, but it's a welcome newbie and new type of plane.

As for the FW190, i like the A3 a lot. Nifty little devil ...

[CUJO_1970]

It was forbidden to even fly aerobatics. Funny to see it rolling with the FW-190. 

[blockheadgreen_]

As for point #2, I believe it used de Havilland propellers - many of which had a pitch range of only 20 degrees (as compared to the 35 deg. or greater of Rotols). These props often had poor performance at lower speeds in comparion to their Rotol counterparts and couldn't always achieve the selected RPM throughout the entire flight envelope. I had read that one Spit V squadron were very bemused to find their Rotol - equipped machines were being traded for DH - equipped ones as the performance was a step down in many respects. 

[Gingerwelsh]

11 hours ago, Lythronax said:

As for point #2, I believe it used de Havilland propellers - many of which had a pitch range of only 20 degrees (as compared to the 35 deg. or greater of Rotols). These props often had poor performance at lower speeds in comparion to their Rotol counterparts and couldn't always achieve the selected RPM throughout the entire flight envelope. I had read that one Spit V squadron were very bemused to find their Rotol - equipped machines were being traded for DH - equipped ones as the performance was a step down in many respects. 

 

Yes, de Havilland Hydromatic props.

 

Pre flight checks would include static run up test if required.

T/O throttle and 3000 rpm. (From the Mk VI 1944 manual).

 

Our Mossie can't manage this and would not be allowed to fly.

 

..

15 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

It was forbidden to even fly aerobatics. Funny to see it rolling with the FW-190. 

 

Spins are forbidden, but rolling is allowed providing positive g is maintained to prevent engine cut out.

 

..

16 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Which FW190? Guess the Mosquito needs some fine tuning, but it's a welcome newbie and new type of plane.

As for the FW190, i like the A3 a lot. Nifty little devil ...

 The A3 is spritely and rolls between 3 and 5 seconds depending on speed etc.

The Mossie rolls between 4 and 5 seconds, so the A3 has the edge, but the Mosquito should be nowhere near it.

 

..

[thrila]

 

19 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

It was forbidden to even fly aerobatics.

 

That isn't quite correct.  The Mosquito FB VI was not permitted to perform aerobatics at weights above 19,000 lb.  A mosquito could achieve this by dropping it's 500 lb bombs and burning off about 40% of it's fuel (assuming it was loaded with full fuel). I suspect most mosquitos encountered in-game take of with between 25 - 50 % fuel.

 

 

 

 

[Noisemaker]

Three things I don't like about the mosquito:

 

1:  As an intruder/bomber, she carries more gun armament than a dedicated fighter.

2. She's insanely hard to land.

3. She's better looking than my girlfriend, well, almost.  She's almost as difficult, see point 2.

[Vishnu]

Ground looping is a feature. 

[jollyjack]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:36 PM, Gingerwelsh said:

1. Start the Take-Off run and there is a strong pull to the right. It should veer to the left.

 

2. Take-Off should be made at 3000 rpm. The engines can only make about 2730, gradually rising to 3000 at about 120 mph.

 

3. The rate of roll, is much too high, in fact faster than most single engine fighters and matches the FW 190, (The King of Rate of Roll), which is why it is such a good dog fighter in game, unlike RL, where it was rated as inferiour to all German and British, except the Spit MK V,  fighters in this respect.

 

3a. Mosquito rockets were used exclusevely against shipping.

The AP rocket requires 40 hits to sink a large ship.

6 SAP rockets are required  to sink the same ship, completely the opposite to real life, where only AP was used.

 

2 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

Three things I don't like about the mosquito:

 

1:  As an intruder/bomber, she carries more gun armament than a dedicated fighter.

2. She's insanely hard to land.

3. She's better looking than my girlfriend, well, almost.  She's almost as difficult, see point 2.

 

6 squeezes will fix all your problems:

 

[Weegie]

The Navigator

[[CPT]Crunch]

And lack of a Webley to deal with him.

[Bilbo_Baggins]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Gingerwelsh said:

1. Start the Take-Off run and there is a strong pull to the right. It should veer to the left.

 

2. Take-Off should be made at 3000 rpm. The engines can only make about 2730, gradually rising to 3000 at about 120 mph.

 

3. The rate of roll, is much too high, in fact faster than most single engine fighters and matches the FW 190, (The King of Rate of Roll), which is why it is such a good dog fighter in game, unlike RL, where it was rated as inferiour to all German and British, except the Spit MK V,  fighters in this respect.

 

3a. Mosquito rockets were used exclusevely against shipping.

The AP rocket requires 40 hits to sink a large ship.

6 SAP rockets are required  to sink the same ship, completely the opposite to real life, where only AP was used.

 

 

.. 

 

Was also very surprised by the rate of roll. Not to say it's wrong but I am interested in how the developers made the decision to model it that way. It's by far the fastest rolling twin engine machine in the game.

[CountZero]

6 hours ago, thrila said:

 

 

That isn't quite correct.  The Mosquito FB VI was not permitted to perform aerobatics at weights above 19,000 lb.  A mosquito could achieve this by dropping it's 500 lb bombs and burning off about 40% of it's fuel (assuming it was loaded with full fuel). I suspect most mosquitos encountered in-game take of with between 25 - 50 % fuel.

 

 

 

 

10% fuel is enough for ~15min flying on combat mode, so 20% is more then enought for MP sorties most ppl do

[Jade_Monkey]

On 6/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, Gingerwelsh said:

3a. Mosquito rockets were used exclusevely against shipping.

The AP rocket requires 40 hits to sink a large ship.

6 SAP rockets are required  to sink the same ship, completely the opposite to real life, where only AP was used.

I am reading the Mosquito book by Philip Birtles and it says the following:

 

"In late July (44), unguided rocket projectiles were used for the first time, launched from underwing rails; they were particularly effective against trains."

Edited June 19, 2022 by Jade_Monkey

[CountZero]

So yes whats the deal with this super roll rate mosquito have, seing posts about it i sniff around net and there is no mention that it was so good at rolling, its 4-5s at 300-400kmh in game. And full or 10% fuel makes no differance even though all tanks are in wings from what i can see.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I am reading the Mosquito book by Philip Birtles and it says the following:

 

"In late July (44), unguided rocket projectiles we're used for the first time, launched from underwing rails; they were particularly effective against trains."

 

That's an odd one, because all the attacks by FB VIs in the records I've seen were carried out with bombs and cannons. 

[Gingerwelsh]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

That's an odd one, because all the attacks by FB VIs in the records I've seen were carried out with bombs and cannons. 

 

The rockets were particularly effective against trains, but not on the Mosquito, which only fired them against ships.

 

Rockets were the tool of the Typhoon, which used them effectively against land targets, (as you probably well know).

 

..

8 hours ago, CountZero said:

So yes whats the deal with this super roll rate mosquito have, seing posts about it i sniff around net and there is no mention that it was so good at rolling, its 4-5s at 300-400kmh in game. And full or 10% fuel makes no differance even though all tanks are in wings from what i can see.

 

I did the same thing. Wing tanks should effect the roll rate, but it doesn't.

There is no feeling of inertia.

..

[busdriver]

12 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I am reading the Mosquito book by Philip Birtles and it says the following:

 

"In late July (44), unguided rocket projectiles were used for the first time, launched from underwing rails; they were particularly effective against trains."

 

I agree with @Gingerwelsh RPs were only used by Coastal Command Mosquito squadrons and only against shipping targets. RP trials on Mosquitos started ~28 Sep 1944. They were first used on Ops by 143 Sqn (a Coastal Command squadron) on 11 Jan 45 (correction make that 21 Nov 44). 235 Sqn and 248 Sqn (also both Coastal Command squadrons) flew their first Ops with RPs on 3 Feb 45 (according to Bird 26 Oct 44, but their ORBs don't reflect that) And RPs were never carried on a Mk XVIII (the Tsetse Mosquito). As @LukeFF mentioned, 2nd TAF Mosquito squadrons did NOT use RPs.

 

This is the first record of Mosquito Ops with RPs I can find.

 

 

Air Chief Marshal Sholto Douglas needed to increase the range of his Banff Mosquitoes, a matter which was raised at a conference held at headquarters and subsequently taken up with de Havilland, the manufacturers. He also made a request for an increase in the numbers of Mk XVIII Tsetse Mosquitoes for 248 Squadron, but was rebuffed by the Air Ministry because the rocket projectile installation was beginning to get underway, following the successful trials on 28 September [1944] and in mid-October [1944] of test flights at Hatfield with rocket rails installed under the wings, using HX918 against targets on Ashley Range in the New Forest. Sholto Douglas changed his mind and suggested the Air Ministry should immediately abandon the MkXVIII project and called for all his Mosquito squadrons to be quickly equipped with rockets. Marshal of the RAF Charles Portal, Chief of the Air Staff, agreed to these proposals. The three Mosquito squadrons therefore underwent intensive rocket projectile (R/P) training at a range near RAF Tain on the Moray Firth coast between Invergordon and Dornoch, an RAF launch anchored target markers off Macduff, while arrow markers were placed on the ground. Making their first operational sortie on 26 October [1944] with this new weapon, developed for its present purpose of attacking vessels by Group Captain John D’Arcy Baker-Carr, 235 and 248 Mosquitoes took off at midday, searching between the Naze and Hombersund.

 

Bird, Andrew. A Separate Little War: The Banff Coastal Command Strike Wing Versus the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe 1944-1945 . Grub Street Publishing. Kindle Edition.

 

The 235 Sqn ORB entry for 26 Oct 44...

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by busdriver

[Guster]

Comparing in-game handling with original footage I think it looks about right.

 

 

It's a bit silly the navigator disappears when he dies though. Other than that I have no complaints.

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Guster said:

Comparing in-game handling with original footage I think it looks about right.

 

 

It's a bit silly the navigator disappears when he dies though. Other than that I have no complaints.

How that fotage shows anything about its handling, also isnt that speed up fotage because of frames used on thouse ww2 cameras.

[Gingerwelsh]

You can't possibly tell anything about handling from a jerky hand held cine camera, on a low level bomb run.

 

Promo films from deHavilland are also suspect, as are wartime films made to inspire the population.

Conversions of format can alter speeds of frame rates, etc.

 

I prefere to use officially documented trials and anecdotes from high hour wartime pilots, such as George Stuart and "Dutch" Holland, to gain information about the Mossie in actual war condition.

 

..

[Guster]

I'm not claiming the video is evidence the Mossie is modelled right. I'm saying it looks about right to me, as in a subjective video game experience, and if there's an issue I'm sure it will be tested and adjusted by the dev team.

 

Personally I've been too busy bombing and shooting up stuff, not to mention being shot at a lot, to really notice any excessive roll rate.

[dannytherat]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:45 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

It was forbidden to even fly aerobatics. Funny to see it rolling with the FW-190. 

Where on earth does the idea that aerobatics were forbidden come from?

 

The following is from the Pilots' Notes:

 

Although aerobatics are "not recommended owing to the possibility of damaging  the special equipment" (ie. any radar, Gee boxes etc), the notes clearly state that aerobatics were permitted (if not necessarily encouraged)

[dannytherat]

I don't really expect this to fully convince anyone, but I reckon the half-roll we see the Mosquito execute here takes about two seconds, equating to about four seconds for a full roll.

https://youtu.be/JTsnMKzmdWs?t=367

 

I can't be 100% sure (and others may contradict me) but I feel like the speed of the footage looks right to me.

 

On the basis of this, I feel like the ingame rolling performance feels about right (which I'm a bit surprised by, as I thought the roll rate in game might be a touch high too).

Edited June 19, 2022 by dannytherat