Mosquito observations

[Avimimus]

 

It has an interesting wiggle and very high roll rate (boosted ailerons?) as well as impressive rudder effectiveness.
 

It doesn't seem to have any interval release for the bombs. Furthermore the bomb trigger seems very very slow (Is this a bug?)

 

As a result I find I'm unable to deliver more than two bombs per run (unless I use 'drop all'). If I try to put more than two bombs along a target I always end up with at least one bomb still hanging off the racks. Overall, I'm finding it isn't quite as accurate as the P-38 in the bomber role.

 

The 57mm Molins gun is essentially useless. The sim doesn't model waterline hits leading to flooding or penetration deep into the hulls of ships. As a result, the 57mm AP round is less effective than a smaller gun with mixed belts. There is a similar issue with the 25lb AP RP-3 rockets being much less effective against ships than the 60lb SAP/HE RP-3 rockets (in reality the 25lb AP RP-3 was preferred for anti-shipping duties because of its capacity to produce hits below the waterline on small to medium vessels).

 

More minor observations:
- It has exceptional cockpit visibility (have you tried leaning forward and looking down?)
- The cockpit door/hatch (lower right) can get shot off
- I think the fire extinguisher might be modelled (As engine fires tend to go out on their own?)

 

*edit* Also the animations of the co-pilot are really excellent (he even breathes)!

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Avimimus

[Hoss]

Agree, bomb mechanics are not the best. 

[pilotpierre]

I have had not been able to sink a ship with neither rockets nor the Molins gun despite numerous hits around the waterline. Somewhat frustrating.

[Jeroen83]

Was anyone able to open the two windows directly aft of the windshield?

 

Night flying is a blast in VR.

 

I do think that the navigator position should be mannable, even though there are no functions. I don’t fly multiplayer but it must be awesome to have someone dedicated to navigating  on low level long range missions.

[Gingerwelsh]

22 minutes ago, pilotpierre said:

I have had not been able to sink a ship with neither rockets nor the Molins gun despite numerous hits around the waterline. Somewhat frustrating.

60 lb SAP rockets will sink ships, but not the Molins or 25 lb AP rockets ..

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

It doesn't seem to have any interval release for the bombs. Furthermore the bomb trigger seems very very slow (Is this a bug?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was no interval release.

 

It is manualy switched and therefore slow

 

...

[=621=Samikatz]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It doesn't seem to have any interval release for the bombs. Furthermore the bomb trigger seems very very slow (Is this a bug?)

 

The bombs are selected on the plastic-covered panel to the right of most of your instruments, below the gunsight. There's a switch for each individual bomb pylon. When the pilot hits the bomb release control it drops every bomb from every pylon set as armed and nothing else. What's being modelled in GB is the pilot having to lean down, disable the release for the armed bomb, then enable the release for the next bomb he has in "queue", which takes a moment

[Vastarien]

I miss radio navigation… I hope one day we’ll get it, along with a communications rework.

[Vishnu]

49 minutes ago, Jeroen83 said:

Was anyone able to open the two windows directly aft of the windshield?

 

Night flying is a blast in VR.

 

I do think that the navigator position should be mannable, even though there are no functions. I don’t fly multiplayer but it must be awesome to have someone dedicated to navigating  on low level long range missions.

Love in the air…

[CAFulcrum]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

More minor observations:
- It has exceptional cockpit visibility (have you tried leaning forward and looking down?)

The deflection shots you can make with it are incredible.

I'm surprised by how docile it flies, but it does bring back memories from warbirds.  Very 'rail'ish and stable.  Accelerates like crazy too!

Edited June 3, 2022 by CAFulcrum

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, =621=Samikatz said:

The bombs are selected on the plastic-covered panel to the right of most of your instruments, below the gunsight. There's a switch for each individual bomb pylon. When the pilot hits the bomb release control it drops every bomb from every pylon set as armed and nothing else. What's being modelled in GB is the pilot having to lean down, disable the release for the armed bomb, then enable the release for the next bomb he has in "queue", which takes a moment

 

Fascinating! Thanks for the explanation! The details are appreciated - they do sometimes take away from combat effectiveness though! I wonder if it'd have been possible to operate the panel with one hand while pressing the bomb release with the other? I also wonder - couldn't the co-pilot/navigator reach the panel? That is an extra set of hands.

 

Does anyone know if it is historically accurate to make more than one run as an intruder pilot? Or should I be just using 'drop all' if I have more than two bombs?

 

  

 

1 hour ago, pilotpierre said:

I have had not been able to sink a ship with neither rockets nor the Molins gun despite numerous hits around the waterline. Somewhat frustrating.

1 hour ago, Gingerwelsh said:

60 lb SAP rockets will sink ships, but not the Molins or 25 lb AP rockets ..

 

Yes, most merchants can be taken out with six 60lb SAP rockets, most small ships with two. Cannons in the >23mm range with mixed belts are very effective against small ships.

 

Anyone have thoughts on how the devs could fix this? Do you think it'd be possible to just add a hitbox at the waterline that (1) is armoured to represent realistic hull thickness and (2) causes amplified increased damage if penetrated?

 

Such a simple solution might be possible since all of the ships in the game have constant draught (i.e. the waterline is always the same, and doesn't change due to ballast changes) so adding a single hitbox to each ship might do it.

 

P.S. Of course it might be ideal to have flooding and fire damage modelled separately etc. But having a waterline hitbox on each ship sounds like a good interim solution.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Avimimus

[thrila]

I have a couple of observations/questions too.

 

1.  Can the flaps be lowered above 150 mph? The specification states this, however I'm pretty confident they could be lowered at 200 mph to about 50% flaps in real life.

2. Is it modelled with the inertia weights?  When I fully pull back on the stick it takes several seconds for it to achieve full deflection in game. I'm not saying this is wrong, it's just something I've noticed.

3. Are the 20mm synchronized? Maybe it's just an illusion, but when I'm strafing and swing the nose, the impacts on the ground seem to correspond to where the tracers land and nowhere else. I would expect a steady stream of impacts.  Or perhaps it's just a graphics anomaly.

[Oyster_KAI]

When you choose "open exhausts" modfication,
a stuttering low-frequency sound can be heard in the cockpit, squeezing your eardrums.
I did hear this sound in mosquito videos, this adds a lot of immersion and realism.
Very nice detail?

[SvAF/F16_Dark_P]

I find it also just to docile, it was known to veer hard off the runway on take off, i can hold it straight with no problem at all 

[LukeFF]

8 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_Dark_P said:

it was known to veer hard off the runway on take off

 

Where did you read that?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[SYN_Vander]

The following comes from the Pilot Notes for the Mosquito FB6.

40. Take-off
(i) Carry out items (95) to (105) in the Pilot's Check List.
(ii) Taxy forward a few yards to straighten the tailwheel.
(iii) Open the throttles slowly, checking any tendency to swing by coarse use of the rudder and by differential throttle movement. There is little tendency to swing if the engines are kept synchronised.
The travel of the throttle levers is very short for the power obtained.
Coarse use of the throttles will aggravate any tendency to swing.
(iv) When comfortably airborne, brake the wheels and raise the undercarriage, check that the undercarriage locks up; if it does not hold the selector lever up for five seconds.
(v) Safety speed at a weight of approximately 17,000 lb. flaps up or 15° down at +9 lb./sq. in. boost is 155 knots. At + 18 lb./sq. in. boost it is 170 knots. These speeds however, may vary considerably with individual aircraft.
(vi) Before raising the flaps, if used, trim the aircraft slightly tail heavy.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

notice how this differs from in game Mossie

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[busdriver]

55 minutes ago, thrila said:

1.  Can the flaps be lowered above 150 mph? The specification states this, however I'm pretty confident they could be lowered at 200 mph to about 50% flaps in real life.

 

Yes. I've read (looking for the pilot anecdote) that 175 mph 174 knots so 200 mph as you noted, was the upper limit for flaps 15-20 degrees.

 

 

 

With full flaps, the airspeed limit is 150 mph.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by busdriver

[SvAF/F16_Dark_P]

40 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Where did you read that?

I have herd it many times, but dont remember where exactly, but i found those videos here where they talk about it

 

Regards

 

 

 

[busdriver]

10 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

The following comes from the Pilot Notes for the Mosquito FB6.

40. Take-off
(i) Carry out items (95) to (105) in the Pilot's Check List.
(ii) Taxy forward a few yards to straighten the tailwheel.
(iii) Open the throttles slowly, checking any tendency to swing by coarse use of the rudder and by differential throttle movement. There is little tendency to swing if the engines are kept synchronised.

 

And there are pilot anecdotes such as David Oglivy's 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Where did you read that?

 

The Mosquito was pretty well known as being easy to ground loop. The narratives in most ORBs mention airplanes that swung on takeoff or swung on landing. It's one of those things that jumped out at me the more I read.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301dce5274a1317000b69/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf

 

I think game do not simulate common problem with plane fitted with carburettor. When flying upside down they were prone to cut out due to the effect of gravity in the carb causing brief fuel starvation.

Edited June 3, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think game do not simulate common problem with plane fitted with carburettor. When flying upside down they were prone to cut out due to the effect of gravity in the carb causing brief fuel starvation.

This is simulated, the cutoff isn't instantaneous like in the early series Merlins as there were modifications to alleviate the problem, but it wasn't fully solved. In game after flying inverted (or pulling negative G in a dive) the engines first start to run rough then they cutoff and this depends on the fuel consumption (loss of fuel supply sooner at higher power settings).

At +18 boost 3000 RPM it happens after around 5 seconds or so of negative G, with +7 boost 2650 RPM it can tolerate 10-12 seconds.

Edited June 4, 2022 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Art-J]

7 hours ago, Avimimus said:

- It has exceptional cockpit visibility (have you tried leaning forward and looking down?)

 

This I have to comment on, 'cause it's quite relative ;). Coming from DCS Mossie I find cockpit visibility in GB one exceptional-ly ABYSMAL - especially on the ground. In DCS plane there are three camera positions to toggle between:

a) "cruise" one centered on pilot's seat and high enough to easily see over the nose and between port engine and left cockpit wall without any leaning necessary, even on the ground. Makes taxiing, takeoffs, ground target spotting and landings easier;

b) gunsight one, similar to GB, but more centered on gunsight glass, obviously used in combat;

c) navigator's one when switching to his position - useful for spotting ground and air targets on the right, again with more terrain visible between starboard engine and right pit wall without leaning.

 

I understand that Il-2 doesn't support such camera toggle for pilot's seat (not yet at least) and thus why they had to choose the default position the way they did, but it's bloody annoying not to be able to see if I'm lined up for takeoff properly, or If I flared for landing properly, or if I'm rolling out after landing with no obstacles in front (because the whole runway view is blocked unless I do some leaning shenanigans).

 

I know I can customize default cam position and make it higher, but I'll loose aiming capability. There is no good compromise possible here. However, since Il-2 supports nestle-to-gunsight command in turrets and gunners 'positions, I think it would be awesome if devs could make it work for Mossie's pilot as well.

[HBPencil]

In the video below warbird pilot Keith Skilling talks about flying the Mossie, and from about 2:40 he talks about how it handles on take-off. As you'll hear he follows the post-war RNZAF Mossie procedure of running the engines up to 0lb (30in) while holding it on the brakes, then release the brakes and she tracks ok after that.
 

You can see it in use in this vid from 1:55:

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by HBPencil

[Gingerwelsh]

@Avimimus

 

You could set the panel to drop the 2 wing bombs first, (top switches down), then the bay bombs singly, (no need to touch switches).

 

This gives 3 quick release presses and a better spread than, "all at once".

 

In real life SAP rockets couldn't penetrate ships hull and did little damage.

 

AP rockets had higher velocity, (correctly modelled) and fired at high angle would penetrate the hull, burn the inside, with the motor still running and then exit the other side under water with a large hole to let water in.

 

Our ships have a simple model, so this doesn't happen.

 

We need more ships!

 

P.S.

Made a mission to see how many Mosquitos it would take to sink a cargo ship with AP rockets.

3 to get it to burn, 5 to sink it.

..

Edited June 4, 2022 by Gingerwelsh

[Zeev]

18 hours ago, Vastarien said:

I miss radio navigation… I hope one day we’ll get it, along with a communications rework.

Silly, we need DLSS, Graphics, skies, more 4K textures. 
Radio improvments? Nah just hit "i" ?

Edited June 4, 2022 by Zeev

[Noisemaker]

Just finished 4 hours of flight time with the Mossie in QMB on Bodenplatte (As career isn't quite ready), and I absolutely love it!  Flew train hunt, shipping interdiction and airfield attack (at dawn, spectacular!).

My observations:

 

The roll rate is really surprising!

 

She accelerates very quickly, but also loses speed very quickly while climbing or turning, but still maintains solid stick authority even at 150mph without flaps.

 

Landing is like landing a spitfire, with 2 engines...  She likes to float, and when you finally get wheels down, when you pull back on the stick to get the tail wheel solidly on the ground, she likes to take off again (well below indicated stall speed).  Unless you have that tail wheel solidly on the ground, forget about using the brakes, she'll nose over immediately.

 

Rudder authority at low speeds (Taxi) is negligible, brakes are required (I've got them on a button, and wish I had them on an axis).  That said, ground looping is much less of an issue on landing than with other British aircraft, as she tends to stay straight from touchdown to stop, with minimal rudder/differential braking input.

 

Armament, well, let's just say with the 2 500Lb bombs and 6 HE Rockets (Not to mention the Hispanos), I beat my personal record for ground kills in a mission in the airfield attack with 21 Facility, 1 spotlight, 2 AA, 5 transport, 1 parked HE111, and one poor 109K (air kill) I caught trying to take off.

Durability, well, let's just say, try not to get hit.  Any HE hit is likely to leave you missing control surfaces, or at least with significant impairment.  As well, your top speed will be severely affected.  She is definitely a one pass and haul ass bomber, unless you are relatively unopposed by AA.

Aside from the one AtoA kill of a 109 taking off, I haven't tried dogfighting, as the odds in QMB against 24 enemy fighters (on moderate opposition!) aren't my cup of tea.  Something to try next time in the QM.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

21 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

This is simulated, the cutoff isn't instantaneous like in the early series Merlins as there were modifications to alleviate the problem, but it wasn't fully solved. In game after flying inverted (or pulling negative G in a dive) the engines first start to run rough then they cutoff and this depends on the fuel consumption (loss of fuel supply sooner at higher power settings).

At +18 boost 3000 RPM it happens after around 5 seconds or so of negative G, with +7 boost 2650 RPM it can tolerate 10-12 seconds.

Yes but all planes quit the same.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

3 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Yes but all planes quit the same.

Depends on the plane, tried all of the British fighters and only the Mosquito and Hurricane have it. The 109E doesn't have it but the rest of the 109s do. So now it's a bit inconsistent, hopefully when we get the reworked fuel modelling each plane will be revisited for this. Other than carburettor design you also had fuel tank positions and their intake points that could end up ingesting air/vapors when inverted / pulling negative G.  For oil this also could lead to engine damage if suddenly lubrication supply stopped.

[Bilbo_Baggins]

The ailerons are a surprisingly powerful feature about this airframe. Having said that, never tried another game/flight model of it before. 

[Voyager]

My understanding was that all the Merlins ended up fitted with pressure carbs, so the carb was no longer a g-force driven component. It was only the float carbs that starved with negative g's. The Stromberg carbs were more like fuel injection systems. 

 

I expect the problem would be the oil systems didn't scavenging oil correctly inverted so you'd oil starve the engine, and you'd probably also have issues getting fuel from the tanks to the engines as well. 

[thrila]

On 6/3/2022 at 10:52 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301dce5274a1317000b69/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf

 

I think game do not simulate common problem with plane fitted with carburettor. When flying upside down they were prone to cut out due to the effect of gravity in the carb causing brief fuel starvation.

I'm not sure how you expect the engine to cut out in-game, are you expecting it to lose power similar to an early spitfire / hurricane?

 

I read through the report you posted and it states the mosquito was fitted with an 'RAE Anti g Carburettor' and concludes although not definitively, that the port carburettor was not maintained correctly.

 

Near the end of the report it states states, 'The Merlin's reputation for cutting under negative g conditions had endured since the beginning of the Second World War. Curiously, the fact that a successful carburettor modification had been developed (and incorporated on the subject aircraft) to remedy the problem had largely been forgotten.'

[SvAF/F16_Dark_P]

Just tried the 57mm i dont know anything about damage, but it feel puny? like i fireing a airgun

 

It is a cannon it shold shake the airplane

 

 

EDIT: I just want to say that i don just come here to Bash on the Mossie i love the edition in IL2 and the devs have done a amzing job, i know it must be hard to do everything just 100% perfect ?

 

Regards.

Edited June 5, 2022 by SvAF/F16_Dark_P

[jollyjack]

Mosquito, and what a fat one .... It's a great addictive plane add-on. But i still have 2 stupid questions.

 

1) Aiming visor: why is it in a off-centered position for the pilot's location? He's the shootist ain't he?

    Only if you use aiming assist it's less of a wild guess where to aim for any turkey.

Added: saw a pic from Saldy's Campaign where the visor view seems normal; huh?:

 

 

2) Great, that window wiper. Does it work, and how?

Edited June 6, 2022 by jollyjack

[354thFG_Leifr]

I've managed to have a flight or three in the Mosquito now, and boy is it a joy to fly! Almost certainly worth the wait, the Arado can be thrown in the bin now. ?

My only criticism is the navigator position; it doesn't function as an AI with positional call outs but it also cannot be taken over by a second player for multiplayer purposes, he is the most useless addition to any aircraft in this simulator so far. It is unfortunate for how much time we will be spending together in the future, and how close we are sitting. I would rather he was simply removed outright if neither of these functionalities are made available.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Leifr

[Avimimus]

I agree with Leifr - it'd be good if navigators called out potential threats (or helped identify potential ground targets). The same goes for wingmen, gunners, tank crew etc. They could all be better at it. It'd really give multicrew aircraft an advantage.

 

By the way, another observation:

 

When looking over my shoulder I can't help but to think about how easy it'd be to make out with the co-pilot/navigator, as it seems to happen accidentally (or at least naturally). Something about the love-seat with a step-back layout. Anyone else noticed this?

[RyanR]

The JU-88C-6 also has a creepy extra guy. Fun to do a Creepy Skirmish with the Mossie and a bunch of C6's in the QMB.

 

-Ryan

[WWDarkdiz]

5 hours ago, jollyjack said:

2) Great, that window wiper. Does it work, and how?

LAlt W.  You have to finesse turning it off though, somewhere on the downstroke about half-way down the windscreen.  If not the blade will end up somewhere in the pilot's line of sight.

The question I have though, is in the specs it says with 150 grade fuel the supercharger must be manually switched at 3500' (feet).  Does that seem AWFULLY low? Perhaps 3500 meters is what they mean, but just didn't convert to feet?  The Merlin in the Spit 14 is manually switched at 14,500', and even the Hurri at 13K. Other Spits are at least 9500', very similar engine. 3500m is about 11,500' which would make more sense.

[Skycat1969]

7 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Aiming visor: why is it in a off-centered position for the pilot's location? He's the shootist ain't he?

    Only if you use aiming assist it's less of a wild guess where to aim for any turkey.

Added: saw a pic from Nadelbaum's Campaign where the visor view seems normal; huh?:

 

The gunsight seems like it is in an odd position but it's no problem to use in VR while in the pilot's seat. One of my favorite things about VR is that the real life placement and operation of gages, gunsights, canopy framing etc. makes a lot more sense than it does in compressed flat screen mode. The screenshot you provided seems to be an exaggerated lean to the right or maybe using the default position a little right of the seat for 2D players, which actually feels really weird in VR.

 

 

[jollyjack]

Is this a bug? Mosquito Autostart or Ai start fires rockets once ...