Best way to counter defensive split S

[Youtch]

I noticed that AI quite often tends to go defensive Split-S when chased.

 

What is the best way to counter this defensive move and remains on the offensive?

 

I usually go split S also following the plane i am chasing, but targetting while making the downloop is not easy (just get a very nice shooting opportunity when they flip over), and you loose a lot of altitude for not a big gain in speed, hence not a great move from a strategic perspective.

 

Thank you very much for your experts advice.

[Cpt_Siddy]

lol go vertical and find another customer. 

 

Aircombat is not air quake, if he burns his energy an alt, he is not a fighter, if there is other targets in more dangerous positions, go after them... else, give chase or stay on ACTUAL mission or RTB. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cpt_Siddy

[Gambit21]

What Siddy said.

Study ACM.

Then study BFM.

[PatrickAWlson]

To add to @Cpt_Siddy Only follow if everything is below you and you are in friendly territory.  For me, my SA is not nearly up to the task of making a quick decision so I initially let them go.  Then I assess.  Then, if it seems OK, I plan another attack with an altitude advantage.  If there are EA co-alt or above me then I let him go.  If I am over enemy territory I let him go.

 

In real life most pilots who split-S to escape would promptly go for home.  In our game the AI will try to reengage.  If you really want to kill him then you can use that period where he is trying to climb back into the fight to try to kill him.  Still, such an action is not risk free.  In real life, PWCG missions, and probably other in game missions, enemy flights are constantly moving.  Even if you think he is alone, he might not be in the next minute, so fixating on him is not a good idea.

[Youtch]

25 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

If you really want to kill him then you can use that period where he is trying to climb back into the fight to try to kill him. 

This is what i usually do when i do not come down. So you make horizontal turn before or chandelle?

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, Youtch said:

This is what i usually do when i do not come down. So you make horizontal turn before or chandelle?

Best practice is go vertical, use the opportunity to gain altitude/potential energy. (keeping SA in mind, where are his buddies, energy states etc) Then hawk the fight from there. This is when you’d pounce on the guy trying to climb back into the fight. However best move is probably worry about the guy who’s going to follow you if you do that…if he’s around.

 

Lots of variables but managing your altitude bank account is key.

[Noisemaker]

Too many variables to give a definitive answer.

If there are other enemies about, then extend and climb, then reassess.

If it's one on one, and no one is damaged, then maintain altitude or climb, and turn to follow.

If the opponent is damaged, and no other enemies are near, a descending turn to gain speed, but maintain an altitude advantage can be employed to acquire another favourable position.
If the opponent is badly damaged and there are no other enemies about, follow in the split-s in the chance of a kill shot and to assess if the damage/injuries will cause the opponent to auger in.

If you are damaged, egress.

 

[Gambit21]

11 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

 

If the opponent is badly damaged and there are no other enemies about, follow in the split-s in the chance of a kill shot and to assess if the damage/injuries will cause the opponent to auger in.

 

I’d say a badly damaged opponent is not the guy to spend your altitude on, as “no other enemies about” even if that’s a correct assessment (and it often isn’t)  is often a transient state of affairs. 
 

SP is one thing, in MP It’s ego that chases that guy, and ego that get’s you killed.

[Noisemaker]

3 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I’d say a badly damaged opponent is not the guy to spend your altitude on, as “no other enemies about” even if that’s a correct assessment (and it often isn’t)  is often a transient state of affairs. 
 

SP is one thing, in MP It’s ego that chases that guy, and ego that get’s you killed.

I was speaking strictly about SP against the AI.  I'd add the caveat that you should head immediately towards your own lines after confirming the kill using the speed you've gained, and either climb back up to re-engage or rtb depending on the situation/mission objective status. Obviously in the MP environment, disengagement and withdrawal is the preferred option.

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, Youtch said:

This is what i usually do when i do not come down. So you make horizontal turn before or chandelle?

 

Whatever I do I always want more altitude.  I am definitely not the best pilot out there, so this might really be a terrible idea.  My usual break contact maneuver is to do a climbing turn to reestablish SA.  I don't want to do a violent maneuver at this  point because that would bleed speed.  With a climbing turn, I'm not flying straight, I'm gaining altitude, I maintain some speed, and I'm reestablishing my understanding of the battle area in 360 degrees.  If the guy who split-S comes back up I should be above him, but he is just one part of the equation.  

Edited May 14, 2022 by PatrickAWlson

[Youtch]

Thank you all for your answers!