Which is the best Flightstick with extension? TM Warthog / VKB / Virpil

[Algy-Lacey]

Hello!

 

I am looking to upgrade my Thrustmaster T.16000m to a flight stick with an extension such as the Thrustmaster Warthog, VKB Gunfighter or Virpil Mongoos.

 

Do any of you have experience with 1 or more of these sticks? If so, please do share your views both positive, negative and comparative. Bear in mind that my list of pro's and con's is merely information I have garnered from reading forums like this one. YMMV.

 

 

Thrustmaster Warthog with 200mm extension

 

Pros:

Price. If bought second hand on Ebay then this stick is roughly half the price of the other contenders. I could get a used one in good condition for well under £250. There are ones on Ebay right now for £170.

The stick is made of metal and it has a good number of buttons including a 'pinky' switch and an 8 way hat.

 

Cons:

Some people have reported 'stiction' issues where the flightstick's movement isn't fluid.

Spring tension isn't customisable. Stick might be a tad big.

 

My Questions:

Does the stick have different springs for the Elevator and Roll axes?

What is the deadzone area like? Is it 'soft' and easy to innitiate movement, or 'clunky'?

What is the spring tension like? Soft / Medium / Hard... Is it linear or progressive?

 

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk III (with MCG Grip and 200mm extension)

 

Pros:

I hear that the motion is very smooth and precise and that with an extension you get unparalleled control over your aircraft.

The stick is customisable with replacement springs for each axis, you can choose a 'soft centre' or notchy center. And different cams for a linear spring tension (for space sims) or progressive spring tension.

There are tons of buttons, each of the mini thumb joysticks or hats have a push button funtion as well, there is a brake lever axis and a 2 stage trigger plus a folding trigger.

The palm rest is adjustable for people with small hands (like me).

Quality of construction is said to be very good.

 

Cons:

Price. If bought new, then a Gunfighter Mk III with MCG Pro grip and 200mm extension is about 475 euros / £395 plus UK Import Duty Tax.

 

My Questions:

If I buy from the European webstore, can it be sent to me in the UK even though I am outside of the European Union? (f*#@ing Brexit!)

 

 

Virpil VPC MongoosT-50CM2 (with 200mm extension)

 

Pros:

People say that the quality of construction is very good.

There are a lot of buttons, 2 stage trigger and flip-down trigger plus a brake lever.

The base is customisable with replacement cams.

 

Cons:

I read somewhere that the range of motion, when used with an extension, is too great and that also the spring tension isn't ideal for this.

It isn't customisable in terms of stronger springs or smaller palm rest.

Price. If bought new, then a VPC MongoosT-50CM2 grip on a VPC Mongoos Base plus a 200mm extension is 530 Euros / £440 plus UK Import Duty Tax

 

My Questions:

What is the spring tension like without an extension? Soft / Medium / Hard? And with an extension? Are there seperate springs for Roll and Pitch axes?

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read through all of my waffling. And I hope, if you are also interested in a stick with an extension, I hope that this thread is useful for you.

For me it is a choice between a Thrustmaster Warthog and a Gunfighter Mk III with MCG Pro grip. Cost of initial outlay vs more buttons and better control... hmmmm

 

I look forward to reading your experiences and I hope I will be able to make the choice.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

 

[dburne]

I run a VKB Gunfighter Pro/Ultimate Grip with 200mm extension and love it, very customizable. I can not however answer your question on the VKB re shipping.

To be fair really you would not go wrong with either VKB or Virpil's stick offering. TM not even in the same ballpark imho, I would only go VKB or Virpil if you can swing it and planning on sticking with flight sims.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Have a TM and Virpil original first gen T-50 base both set up with 3.25 inch extensions, little over 80mm.  Very comparable in control ability, can't imagine using either with a 200mm extension, way too much length for a gaming setup for me.  Plenty of finesse with that length of throw already, the grips are rather long on both to begin and should be factored in with the overall throw too.  Any longer and you'll need to mount them directly on the floor.  Most important thing is how fine and consistent the control is in the center zone, the extension generally will do that for you on a quality base. 

 

I do prefer the layout and buttons on a virpil CM2 grip though, the five way switches and so many of them are a boon, and long sessions I prefer the plastic over metal.  But that's just personal preference, nothing superior in function.  Pretty sure the ole virpil will outlive the TM by a long shot, but than your paying for that too.

 

 

[Algy-Lacey]

9 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Have a TM and Virpil original first gen T-50 base both set up with 3.25 inch extensions, little over 80mm.  Very comparable in control ability, can't imagine using either with a 200mm extension

 

Thanks for your reply [CPT]Crunch,

 

Are you saying that you have a VPC Mongoos grip on a TM base? Or do you have 2 sticks? 1 x TM Warthog on TM base and 1 x VPC Mongoos on Virpil base?

Are you saying that TM Warthog and Virpil Mongoos are very comparable in control ability?

 

Sorry if I'm being dumb.

 

It's weird that some poeple say that TM Warthog is very good and comparable with Virpil whilst others say that control ability of TM isn't as good. Differences of quality from different production batches?

[[CPT]Crunch]

The original CM-1 Virpil grip will fit and work on a TM warthog base, but only that specific first gen grip, but its been out of production for a while, however the Z axis won't be seen.  Currently have a Cougar grip on the TM base, for my daughters' usage, its a second set up for home LAN time.  Any TM released grip can be put on a Virpil and can be set up to work.  I do have a CM-1 and could have set it up on the TM, but haven't so far, virpil grips are just too long for my young ones smaller hands, even the cougars a bit on the large side for youth.

 

With extensions on, both are fairly close in control ability, the single best upgrade and improvement you can do for either of these, also the simplest, add an extension.  Don't think there's anything I can do with one set up that can't be done on the other as far as flying in a sim.  Very fine control in both setups.

[Voyager]

One thing to consider is which grip style you prefer. The TM grip is the only way to get the F-16 style grip, and I am given to understand it works with the Virpil bases. (Mine is still in shipping, so haven't had a chance to prove it for myself yet.) 

 

The Warthog uses a single spring for all tensioning. You cannot get different tension for pitch and roll. You can get stronger replacement springs though. Accessing and replacing the spring requires around 27 screws, of 5 different types. It is *not* convenient. I have also found it will loosen over time, which is why I know it is 27 screws... 

 

If you are using a 20cm extension, you will want a heavier spring. I think I got mine from someone who used to be advertising on the forums here, along with the extension. I did have to add some glue to the threads to keep the stick from coming loose. While the grip is metal, the gimbal and gimbal threads are plastic. 

 

I also got mine used for a discount, so for what I paid for it, I've actually been fairly happy with it. However, the screw loosening issue and an error, probably on my part, that got the base socket recessed (still works with the extension cable) got me to pull the trigger on getting a Virpil base on order. 

 

Also, if you go Virpil, do not use Fedex. Use DHL. My package sat in Charles de Gaulle for almost an entire month, and only crossed the ocean after Virpil called them to ask what the flap? I am not the only person this has happened too. Apparently something has gone extra sideways at Fedex's distribution center there. 

 

It's still making its way, slowly, across the US. It should get here one of these days, but that is why I can't give a comparison between the two. 

One thing to consider is which grip style you prefer. The TM grip is the only way to get the F-16 style grip, and I am given to understand it works with the Virpil bases. (Mine is still in shipping, so haven't had a chance to prove it for myself yet.) 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Voyager
Attack of the double-post...

[kissTheSky]

Another vote for the VKB. Just like dburne, I can’t comment on EU/UK shipping + customs, but quality and precision is perfect.

 

I keep writing this, so at risk of repeating myself, once again, it’s not cheap, but it’s worth every penny. 
 

Edited to add: I do too have the GF III and the Ultimate stick.

Edited April 23, 2022 by kissTheSky

[Dallas88B]

Since late 2021 I have the VKB Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate.
 

I had the TM Warthog since 2018 and was a fine stick (and still works well...I had no stiction experienced but it seems lots of folk do) but this GF MCE is a very noticeable improvement. I sold the Warthog on Ebay.
 

I don't use the Gunfighters twist (crosswinds) so I locked that out. Made of metal it has an excellent feel.

 

The stick is just so smooth in pitch and roll it makes flying vastly better...The GF has more buttons and axis than the Warthog which is excellent for DCS. It was expensive but I don't regret its purchase for a second ... I  fully expect to get many years out of it.

I went crazy and ordered the Virpil CM3 Throttle to replace the Warthog Throttle...excellent Throttle with great firmware configuration capabilities.

 

There is a good YT review (that helped me choose) by Jesse Calder here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMEetQkkTw. He has some other vids about mount systems too... (it demonstrates monstertech is more sturdy than VKB's)

 

dburne did a good writeup in these forums... he uses an extension...its a good read... https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/57669-vkb-gunfighter-mk-iii-pro-l-review/

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Dallas88B

[LukeFF]

9 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

Since late 2021 I have the VKB Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate.
 

I had the TM Warthog since 2018 and was a fine stick (and still works well...I had no stiction experienced but it seems lots of folk do) but this GF MCE is a very noticeable improvement. I sold the Warthog on Ebay.
 

I don't use the Gunfighters twist (crosswinds) so I locked that out. Made of metal it has an excellent feel.

 

The stick is just so smooth in pitch and roll it makes flying vastly better...The GF has more buttons and axis than the Warthog which is excellent for DCS. It was expensive but I don't regret its purchase for a second ... I  fully expect to get many years out of it.

I went crazy and ordered the Virpil CM3 Throttle to replace the Warthog Throttle...excellent Throttle with great firmware configuration capabilities.

 

There is a good YT review (that helped me choose) by Jesse Calder here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMEetQkkTw. He has some other vids about mount systems too... (it demonstrates monstertech is more sturdy than VKB's)

 

dburne did a good writeup in these forums... he uses an extension...its a good read... https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/57669-vkb-gunfighter-mk-iii-pro-l-review/

 

I'll second the MCG Ultimate as well. It's an excellent, solid grip. The only reason I swapped mine for the WWII grip is because I didn't need such a massive stick - with the coming feature of per-plane key mapping coming to IL2 I will be able to load whatever profile I need. 

[ciderworm]

Warthog base & grip with 100mm extension to a Virpil CM2  with the warthog grip and 200mm extension & then to a VKB Gunfighter +Ultimate with 200mm extension.

 

Honestly, my WH base was fine, it didn't suffer the stiction problem but not really adjustable & a definite "centering" feel. The grip I like but no brake axis.

 

I would consider the CM2 an upgrade. Loads of adjustment available & for me a smoother action. (A real pilot friend reckoned it reminded him of the BAE Hawk)

 

The Gunfighter has the benefit of the adjustable clutch but even with the heaviest springs doubled up it has a slightly lighter action than the CM2. (with 200mm extension) As stated above, the grip is solid.

 

I got the VKB from their European store delivered to the UK fine. You just need to keep in mind the extra charges (thanks Brexit)

 

Something to consider if you fly the Spitfires... The axis brake lever on the VKB makes landing ground loops a thing of the past!

 

 

[Algy-Lacey]

13 hours ago, Voyager said:

The Warthog uses a single spring for all tensioning. You cannot get different tension for pitch and roll. You can get stronger replacement springs though. Accessing and replacing the spring requires around 27 screws, of 5 different types. It is *not* convenient. I have also found it will loosen over time, which is why I know it is 27 screws... 

Thanks for this info! I prefer a stick with 2 springs. I find with sticks with 1 spring, that it is difficult to avoid putting in some elevator with rolling and some aileron with pitching.

 

6 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

I had the TM Warthog since 2018 and was a fine stick (and still works well...I had no stiction experienced but it seems lots of folk do) but this GF MCE is a very noticeable improvement. I sold the Warthog on Ebay.

That's good to know. You're saying that even a TM Warthog without 'stiction' issues is inferior to a VKB GF MCE.

 

2 hours ago, ciderworm said:

The Gunfighter has the benefit of the adjustable clutch but even with the heaviest springs doubled up it has a slightly lighter action than the CM2. (with 200mm extension) As stated above, the grip is solid.

 

I got the VKB from their European store delivered to the UK fine. You just need to keep in mind the extra charges (thanks Brexit)

 

Something to consider if you fly the Spitfires... The axis brake lever on the VKB makes landing ground loops a thing of the past!

I do prefer a lighter feel to a flightstick. I wonder if I could fit a lighter spring for the elevator and a heavier one for the ailerons... just like a real Spitfire! Yes, I do fly Spitfires and I do struggle to avoid ground-loops.

 

One other flight control I have looked at is the Authentikit Spitfire Mk Ix control column. I'm not really considering it because I want a flightstick for multiple applications, such as Condor gliding sim, not just replicating the Spitfire. But it would be interesting to hear if someone has some experience with this, although it is not technically a stick with an extension but does have a long travel.

 

Many thanks for all your replies. I have now ruled out the TM Warthog because of popular opinion and only single spring.

So I will save my pennies and get a VKB GF with MCG grip. I think I will go for a 200mm extension over a 100mm extension as I want the stick to be as long as possible to replicate a real aircraft stick.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

[Lusekofte]

Warthog has a ŕeputation of being high end. This is why I oppose it.

It is a convenient stick for A 10 and F 16 in DCS

With a plastic bowl and a spring in it. Got a cool throttle. 

It is way behind any competitors now.

It's iron grip is nice though 

[dburne]

42 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Thanks for this info! I prefer a stick with 2 springs. I find with sticks with 1 spring, that it is difficult to avoid putting in some elevator with rolling and some aileron with pitching.

 

That's good to know. You're saying that even a TM Warthog without 'stiction' issues is inferior to a VKB GF MCE.

 

I do prefer a lighter feel to a flightstick. I wonder if I could fit a lighter spring for the elevator and a heavier one for the ailerons... just like a real Spitfire! Yes, I do fly Spitfires and I do struggle to avoid ground-loops.

 

 

 

Yes - in the Gunfighter Mk III the x and y axis are independent of each other and you can choose the springs you want on each. Can even adjust the clutch on each independently if desired. The gimbal is also set to be able to use one or two springs per axis, any combination of springs. With a 200mm extension I am using one #50 spring and one #30 spring per axis. The feel is still fairly light for me.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by dburne

[Algy-Lacey]

5 minutes ago, dburne said:

Yes - in the Gunfighter Mk III the x and y axis are independent of each other and you can choose the springs you want on each. Can even adjust the clutch on each independently if desired. The gimbal is also set to be able to use one or two springs per axis, any combination of springs. With a 200mm extension I am using one #50 spring and one #30 spring per axis. The feel is still fairly light for me.

Thanks for this. What do the clutches do? I get that you have a choice of cams for linear / progressive, Soft or Hard center, but the clutch?

 

I see in your photo that you don't have the big square metal baseplate on your Gunfighter... does the base of the stick attach to your desk mount? With screws?

That is something else that I have to factor in... getting a decent mount for it that can be removed when necessary. Seems pricey. I custom made a mount that is fixed to my simming chair and this works great for my T.16000m... I will probably do the same for the Gunfighter. I can post photos of my sim chair if anyone wants to see, it's a good setup for 'normal' sized flight sticks, and easy to make.

[Dallas88B]

48 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

You're saying that even a TM Warthog without 'stiction' issues is inferior to a VKB GF MCE.

 

Yes.

 

I liked the Warthog and used it 2018 to end 2021, but the VKB Gunfighter Modern Combat Edition is considerably better... smoother, more adjustable, more and better buttons and axis.... though I would hope that since it is more expensive and a much newer design. I am very pleased I bought it and hope to get ( even expect ) years of use from it.

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Thanks for this. What do the clutches do? I get that you have a choice of cams for linear / progressive, Soft or Hard center, but the clutch?

 

I see in your photo that you don't have the big square metal baseplate on your Gunfighter... does the base of the stick attach to your desk mount? With screws?

That is something else that I have to factor in... getting a decent mount for it that can be removed when necessary. Seems pricey. I custom made a mount that is fixed to my simming chair and this works great for my T.16000m... I will probably do the same for the Gunfighter. I can post photos of my sim chair if anyone wants to see, it's a good setup for 'normal' sized flight sticks, and easy to make.

 

Correct - base of the Gunfighter screws directly to the mount plate. Or I should say the screws go up through the baseplate into the Gunfighter gimbal casing. So no VKB base plate required, you just remove it. I personally use Monster Tech Mounts. One long for my Gunfighter with extension, and one short for my Virpil CM3 Throttle. They are expensive mounts but so easy to attach and detach as needed. I love mine.

 

Regarding dry clutches - I really hardly use mine. I have them screwed down very slightly. They increase the friction of the stick as you move it through the axis, the tighter you tighten the more friction.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by dburne

[Youtch]

19 hours ago, dburne said:

I run a VKB Gunfighter Pro/Ultimate Grip with 200mm extension and love it, very customizable

Same answer. I could not be more pleased. It does it all. Quite expensive though.

[Drano]

I have the VKB Gunfighter/MCG-Pro w/ 200mm extension. Butter smooth and precise. Plenty of buttons and hats on the grip which are hyper-configurable in the software. The software can be quite the challenge at first but once you get the hang of it you'll be fine. 

 

Now if they'd only come out with a throttle. Quickly running out of patience there. It's only been four years! 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Drano said:

I have the VKB Gunfighter/MCG-Pro w/ 200mm extension. Butter smooth and precise. Plenty of buttons and hats on the grip which are hyper-configurable in the software. The software can be quite the challenge at first but once you get the hang of it you'll be fine. 

 

Now if they'd only come out with a throttle. Quickly running out of patience there. It's only been four years! 

 

I got tired of waiting and got a Virpil CM3 Throttle. Very happy with it.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Drano said:

Now if they'd only come out with a throttle. Quickly running out of patience there. It's only been four years! 

 

It's crazy how long it is taking for them to release their throttle. Any time one asks for an update from them the answer is always "it'll be done when it's done."

[Youtch]

Me also i m eager for the new throttle to come out, because i developped a liking to vkb software.

 

Once you get the logic behind it, it s very powerful. I multiplied by 3 the functions of each button on the stick and i never need to touch my keyboard, which is a must in VR.

[javelina]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:36 AM, dburne said:

 

Yes - in the Gunfighter Mk III the x and y axis are independent of each other and you can choose the springs you want on each. Can even adjust the clutch on each independently if desired. The gimbal is also set to be able to use one or two springs per axis, any combination of springs. With a 200mm extension I am using one #50 spring and one #30 spring per axis. The feel is still fairly light for me.

 

hey Don, where's your Collective for the "choppa"...  ?

[Sokol1]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:54 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

Thrustmaster Warthog with 200mm extension

 

My Questions:

Does the stick have different springs for the Elevator and Roll axes?

 

What is the spring tension like? Soft / Medium / Hard... Is it linear or progressive?

 

First, have in mind that VKB Gunfighter base and VirPil T50CM bases are designed for support extension. Both are in their 2nd or 3trd revision.

Thrustmaster base no, the extensions is aftermarket adaptation. The stiction problem was detected when released in ~2010 and never addressed by the manufacturer.

 

Thrusmaster Warthog "magnetic base" gimbal use a compression spring (plus some small compression auxiliary springs), the force is equal in any direction, even in diagonals.

The (Tm) gimbal internals is made in plastic, and is relatively common the "articulation sphere" broken if a twist force is applied. VKB, VIrPil gimbal is made in metal (steel, aluminum, with  bearings in pivots).

 

Sahaj (see topic in this forum section) sell extension and customized (soft, hard) springs for Tm "magnetic base".

 

https://youtu.be/hmT9YJTIru8

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Sokol1

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

VKB gunfighter with extension...love it!

[javelina]

for the stick, I've been using the TM grip with the VPC WarBRD.  Works great.  Saw no reason to replace the TM throttle.  It's rock solid and bullet proof.  (Using a K-51 collective when needed for the Whirly's).

[Algy-Lacey]

2 minutes ago, javelina said:

for the stick, I've been using the TM grip with the VPC WarBRD.  Works great.

 

Is it possible to use an extension with this combination? I thought that this was only possible with the VPC Mongoos?

[javelina]

some folks have used the VPC WarBRD with an extension.  (though I believe originally VPC does not recommend for this base).  I do not use an extension, because I fly "F-16" style, with my Joystick to the right of me.

[Lusekofte]

On 4/23/2022 at 1:36 PM, dburne said:

 

Yes - in the Gunfighter Mk III the x and y axis are independent of each other and you can choose the springs you want on each. Can even adjust the clutch on each independently if desired. The gimbal is also set to be able to use one or two springs per axis, any combination of springs. With a 200mm extension I am using one #50 spring and one #30 spring per axis. The feel is still fairly light for me.

 

I am in the prosess buying a new rig for VR use in my second house.

Do you got full forward movement with that extension?

I consider a lighter space effective setup with g2 goggles. 

[kissTheSky]

1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

I am in the prosess buying a new rig for VR use in my second house.

Do you got full forward movement with that extension?

I consider a lighter space effective setup with g2 goggles. 

Yeah, extension is not so bad that you’d have to stretch your shoulder for full motion. Provided that you’re an adult over 1.50m tall that is.  

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's crazy how long it is taking for them to release their throttle. Any time one asks for an update from them the answer is always "it'll be done when it's done."

Yeah, it just boggles the mind. The funny thing is, when they did the latest show and tell with black on black background photos, they were acting like all details have been cast in stone and all they needed was going into production, but their responses and posts as recent as several months ago comes across as they’re still changing things. VKB seems to be suffering from paralysis by analysis at this point. It’s similar to Toyota/Lexus when they were working in the LFA. They’d designed the whole thing and and then when they’re almost ready to go into prototyping, they decide the aluminum chassis might be too heavy and they decide to change the whole chassis into carbon fiber and start over adding another 5 year to the project which took a total of 10 years! Well, VKB has another 5.5 years to top that out!
 

Good thing my second hand GVL is going strong, and if I’m honest, once custom controls per plane comes in, I may have more than what I need in the GVL throttle, but knowing myself, I think I’ll end up getting the arc premium with electronic detents out of morbid curiosity if/once it is out. 

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

Yeah, it just boggles the mind. The funny thing is, when they did the latest show and tell with black on black background photos, they were acting like all details have been cast in stone and all they needed was going into production, but their responses and posts as recent as several months ago comes across as they’re still changing things. VKB seems to be suffering from paralysis by analysis at this point. It’s similar to Toyota/Lexus when they were working in the LFA. They’d designed the whole thing and and then when they’re almost ready to go into prototyping, they decide the aluminum chassis might be too heavy and they decide to change the whole chassis into carbon fiber and start over adding another 5 year to the project which took a total of 10 years! Well, VKB has another 5.5 years to top that out!
 

Good thing my second hand GVL is going strong, and if I’m honest, once custom controls per plane comes in, I may have more than what I need in the GVL throttle, but knowing myself, I think I’ll end up getting the arc premium with electronic detents out of morbid curiosity if/once it is out. 

 

Well said. ?I'm using one of the throttle units GVL made for the 2018 flight sim convention in Vegas, and it's great (other than missing a few commands I'd like, most particularly a flaps up/down switch). It even has the IL-2 logo on the front. Like you, though, I'll probably end up buying the VKB throttle, too. ? 

 

[dburne]

Yeah no problem on this end with the forward movement with the extension on the Gunfighter Pro. It combined with the Ultimate Grip is a very nice combination. I will tell you I put a small deadzone at far ends of travel in x and y just to reduce the amount a little that I would need to move the stick.

I was really looking forward to VKB bringing that throttle out, but gave up on waiting and went with a Virpil CM3 around a year or so ago and am glad I did.

Plenty of axis and buttons for me, and I do not necessarily need a replica of any kind. I just like the buttons and axis, rotaries are kinda okish. Mini stick is awesome.

 

Virpil really kicked it into gear with their product offerings and now with the collective. I am now in process of learning the Apache in DCS and if I find I get through it and will stick with it like I do the Hornet, I will be getting a collective as well. Not that my CM3 throttle does not have enough already, just would be nice to simulate having a collective as well.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by dburne

[paul_leonard]

Might I suggest that you consider purchasing an identical VR setup at your second home to that in the primary house.  From experience it is a royal pain to have to adjust to different setup ups in two different homes when you are essentially blind in VR and everything is by muscle memory.

On 4/24/2022 at 3:41 PM, LuseKofte said:

I am in the prosess buying a new rig for VR use in my second house.

Do you got full forward movement with that extension?

I consider a lighter space effective setup with g2 goggles. 

Might I suggest that you consider purchasing an identical VR setup at your second home to that in the primary house.  From experience it is a royal pain to have to adjust to different setup ups in two different homes when you are essentially blind in VR and everything is by muscle memory.

Edited April 25, 2022 by paul_leonard

[Algy-Lacey]

I am considering the different options for the VKB Gunfighter Mk III. I could get a SCG (not premium) grip for about £100 less than a MCG pro (not ultimate), which for me is a big difference.

 

Comparing the 2 sticks...

The SCG grip has 3 hats/mini sticks and a button on the top, a thumb button and an index finger button,

The MCG pro has 4 hats/mini sticks, what looks like a switch and a button on the top, a thumb switch (or is it button?) and a switch for index finger, plus a metal folding trigger and a brake lever.

 

When reading the info on the VKB website it says that the SCG has 7 buttons (3 hats with centre push and 4 buttons) whereas they say that the MCG Pro has 24 buttons. My maths isn't great but that seems wrong to me? The main thing for me would be to lose the brake lever axis and the metal folding trigger (trigger 2), otherwise I may just opt for the SCG.

 

But then again, my Thrustmaster T.16000m has 15 buttons and a hat switch and a trigger and I use them all, so I would be losing some functions by going to the SCG. Tough decision!

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, paul_leonard said:

Might I suggest that you consider purchasing an identical VR setup at your second home to that in the primary house.  From experience it is a royal pain to have to adjust to different setup ups in two different homes when you are essentially blind in VR and everything is by muscle memory.

Might I suggest that you consider purchasing an identical VR setup at your second home to that in the primary house.  From experience it is a royal pain to have to adjust to different setup ups in two different homes when you are essentially blind in VR and everything is by muscle memory.

Impossible, I have a custommade stick not available anymore at home.

Take tooo much space too. I need a good as it get chopperstick from a suplier. However my grip is pretty standard 

[von_Tom]

 

 

You're over-thinking everything.

 

Get a Warthog and you will be left feeling you could have got something a bit better, so you will then upgrade again.  FWIW, the Warthog problems including stiction aren't a big deal when you have an extension.

 

Get a VKB or a Virpil setup (including throttle) and you'll not even be thinking about upgrading again, especially if you then also have decent pedals like Crosswinds or Virpil or whatever.  As for which is better, probably neither but you may wish to look at how the HOTAS is integrated, and who provides the throttle that you like.    Both are a huge upgrade over the T1600 and both are a qualitative upgrade over the Warthog.

 

Also factor in the cost of desk mounts.

 

I went from a Warthog to a Warthog grip on Virpil CM2 base with a 7.5cm extension and it is fantastic. I also have the CM2 throttle which for me is an upgrade over the Warthog as it is "nicer".

 

@LuseKofte Virpil are doing collective bases and grips now.

 

von Tom

[Algy-Lacey]

54 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

You're over-thinking everything.

 

Get a Warthog and you will be left feeling you could have got something a bit better, so you will then upgrade again.  FWIW, the Warthog problems including stiction aren't a big deal when you have an extension.

 

Get a VKB or a Virpil setup (including throttle) and you'll not even be thinking about upgrading again, especially if you then also have decent pedals like Crosswinds or Virpil or whatever.  As for which is better, probably neither but you may wish to look at how the HOTAS is integrated, and who provides the throttle that you like.    Both are a huge upgrade over the T1600 and both are a qualitative upgrade over the Warthog.

 

Also factor in the cost of desk mounts.

 

Yeah, you're right there. That's just how I am.

 

I have Saitek / Logitech Pro Flight rudder pedals and to be honest I felt I had more control when using the twist function of the T.16000m. That will be my next upgrade after a flightstick, probably Crosswinds. But I can't afford both right now so have to choose. For throttle I have the Saitek / Logitech Pro Flight throttle quadrant and I am very happy with it, it is reminiscent of the controls in a Spitfire, with 3 axes for Throttle / Prop / Trim. I like having the trim on a big lever, I can get trimmed for level flight very easily. It also has 3 rocker switches which I have as 6 buttons for other engine / propellor functions. The only additional thing I would like is detents for max continuous throttle and 2850 rpm.

 

Thanks to you all for helping me choose the right flightstick. I have now ruled out the SCG grip and will go with the VKB Gunfighter Mk III with MCG Pro grip and 200mm extension. I hope that this thread will be useful to others too.

 

Happy Landings!

Alfy-Lacey

[=LD=Nephrill]

I used the latest VKB Gunfighter pro with 20 mm ext. for half a year and it is a great stick. But.. the Virpil VPC Constellation ALPHA + VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base + 20 mm ext. is so much better IMO. I love it!

Edited April 26, 2022 by =LD=Nephrill

[Lusekofte]

I actually have Virpil Collective.

Due to space efficiency it is great.

I would not recommend throttle version. It is made in a way I cannot get to function properly in DCS.

It is sufficient having one without

I probably buy Virpil stick used here in Norway 

[dburne]

5 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I actually have Virpil Collective.

Due to space efficiency it is great.

I would not recommend throttle version. It is made in a way I cannot get to function properly in DCS.

It is sufficient having one without

I probably buy Virpil stick used here in Norway 

 

Virpil Cm3 Throttle? I would highly recommend it and it works very well for me in all my flight sims. I just do all my button assignments in game. Been using mine about a year or so now.

[SCG_Tzigy]

My 2 cents.  I have 3 complete sets of TM Warthogs with 10 cm extensions. I have two set up between my main and secondary rigs. One is a spare. I think I have been continuously using them ever since they came out, I believe in 2010 or so.  Prior to that used CH  and TM Cougar. I had to replace couple of worn switches in the last 12 years. 1 new throttle was sent to me under warranty.  I have been super happy with this setup. Got the Virpil T50 base and tried it about 2 years ago. Went back to TM. I do want to try the VKB and I have the GF MKIII w MCG grip sitting in a box next to my desk.  My flying time is quite limited/difficult to come by... so every time I think about swapping the sticks and trying the VKB MCG I just rather end up flying.. I will definitely try the VKB MCG since everyone seems to absolutely love it.  I am little concerned after looking at their tech support website as it seems that a lot of people are having problems with spiking and dirty electronic boards...  Last thing I want to do is to swap the sticks and then end up tweaking or troubleshooting for hours. 

 

Anyway my point of this post is that even though TM Warthog has some flaws/limitations, it has served me extremely well throughout all these years. In addition, it really became a different stick after adding the 10 cm
extensions, now the forces and degree of deflections seem just right.