IL-2 with Open XR "proof of concept" works with Reverb and some other headsets probably

[javelina]

Just completed some initial test flights with OpenXR and had no issues.  Looked pretty good.  Toolkit was disabled.  Will try more tinkering tomorrow.  (Love having OpenXR and Toolkit with M$F$ and DCS, hoping for the same here).

[Thorne]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:49 PM, dburne said:

I use VR for flight simming several hours a day - each and every day for the most part. Never had a need nor a desire to run that necksafer program. And I have some severe neck and shoulder issues. It is realistic 1:1 tracking for me or nothing.

You should try it.

I also have neck problems - and not only has Necksafer allowed me to play pain free, it changes VR from an exercise that agitates my neck to one that strengthens it.

[[CPT]Crunch]

OpenXR latest release is stable, a visual treat, but the tool kit is still bugged and might have to be shut off for it to run successfully.

[Picchio]

11 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

OpenXR latest release is stable, a visual treat, but the tool kit is still bugged and might have to be shut off for it to run successfully.

 

Interesting! Any observations regarding performance? For me, it's become a must in DCS.

[firdimigdi]

4 minutes ago, Picchio said:

Interesting! Any observations regarding performance? For me, it's become a must in DCS.

 

Seems to be a bit better at recovering performance when the framerate dips.
You can also use it in conjunction with the FSR mod if you install it globally and set it up like so:

 

 

That way you can at least tweak sharpening and use upscaling if you want until perhaps OpenXR Toolkit can work with it one day. Also makes it easier to swap and compare with SteamVR (just right click on the IL2 icon and tell it to use SteamVR).

[Picchio]

Sounds lovely. I was just about to ask if FSR was still available despite the TK not working. Thanks!

[mbucchia]

On 4/6/2022 at 5:25 AM, pepper9881 said:

The point is  FFR or rather the fholger code of the author vrperfkit, as mbucchia confessed
he took the FFR code from vrperfkit.

I have no idea where you got this from and you seem to have misunderstood, I never said any such thing. The code in OpenXR Toolkit was entirely developed by CptLucky and myself, we took *5 lines of code from vrperfkit* corresponding to the calculations of the projection center.

Edited April 28, 2022 by mbucchia

[Picchio]

As expected, the improved clarity is quite amazing.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Picchio

[[CPT]Crunch]

I'm going to try it out on combat box tonight, the spotting is just freaking awesome.  I can make out the invasion bands on a C-47 at 4 Km's and see distinct individual black and white bands zooming in from far out.  Positive ID on most things at a klick and a half without zoom.  Very hard not to see a contact in  a clear sky within 2 Km's.  My setting config says the games running at 3668 x 3596 res, it can really be cranked and don't seem to mind, minor FPS loss.

 

The atmosphere just seems more realistic, the horizons especially, crisp, clean, and distinct.  The toolkit can't be that far off compatibility, managed to get into the menus as the game was firing up and navigate through them even changing some settings, but as soon as you hit the green button to enter the game the whole thing crashes.  Looks like a 3D3 directx call error in game.

[[CPT]Crunch]

It works online, but its unstable in multiplayer, lots of hard system crashes going on several minutes into the sorties.  But the clarity, unbelievable how far you can see, never had any issues in QMB. 

Attempted to fly a few sorties but ultimately reverted back to steam and the older FSR mod, its like going from an HD TV back to an old vacuum tube analogue, the shimmer and blur is awful. 

Might be good for single play, but it's not ready for prime time yet.

[firdimigdi]

6 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

hard system crashes

 

As in the game crashing or more than that? I've not noticed any instability so far.

 

The toolkit's problem seems to be related to eye rendering order. If we want it fixed maybe pipe in here:

 

https://github.com/mbucchia/OpenXR-Toolkit/issues/329

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[shirazjohn]

7 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Might be good for single play, but it's not ready for prime time yet.

I have been playing a single player career for the last few days to give open xr a try and I'm quite impressed.  As you say spotting and id-ing a definite improvement,  improved clarity and less shimmering.

 

My fps seems similar to steam vr but  I'm using a 1080ti so i could never get near 90fps anyways unless i turn graphics settings down low and then the game looks crap. I have tried using fsr with it as firdimigdi suggested but for me fsr seems to reintroduce shimmering back to the mix ( i found this when using it with steam vr also so gave up with fsr some months back).

 

On the whole I'm really happy with it,  it runs rock solid no crashes, similar fps and improved visuals its keeper for now. So much so I've removed steam from startup programs at least I'll be saving some resources .

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, shirazjohn said:

I have tried using fsr with it as firdimigdi suggested but for me fsr seems to reintroduce shimmering back to the mix

 

Yeah upscaling would do that and I think that's a similar reason we see a difference between OpenVR and OpenXR (either that - as in OpenVR upscaling the image differently to fit the distortion profile - or OpenXR mode enforces different mip map biases). I've resorted to only using FSR's sharpening filter any more both because of that and the diminishing returns in performance due to upscaling an already high res image.

Edited April 30, 2022 by firdimigdi

[shirazjohn]

Just out of interest I decided to run Chillis benchmark to get a comparison between Open Xr and Steam vr and there is a slight fps gain when using Open Xr the only downside is no Necksaver so maybe have to take up yoga.?

 

[EMS_Kurtis_VR]

I have tested OpenXR in the last few days, both in single player (QMB & Missions) and in multiplayer (Combat Box for about 2 hours). I don't report any crash at all.
While keeping FPS at the same level as usual (Steam with fsr mod), it is now possible (for me) to increase the resolution level by about 20%, which gives a  better sharpness and clarity, with the same hardware (Reverb G2 + RTX 3080). While this does not seem to really increase the spotting, IDing is far much better (which is a big problem with VR).

I hope the OpenXR developers will be more interested with IL2 simulation (thanks to @firdimigdifor his request)
For my part, this is a significant advance in the use of VR with Il2 (the only regret being not being able to use VRNeck Safer anymore.)

 

[shirazjohn]

7 minutes ago, EMS2/4_Kurtis_N said:

(the only regret being not being able to use VRNeck Safer anymore.)

Yes i feel the same although if I'm honest it always felt like a cheat even as a slightly overweight 60 year old i don't believe any young pilots would be able to see directly behind them as you can with this mod.

[[CPT]Crunch]

7 hours ago, firdimigdi said:

 

As in the game crashing or more than that? I've not noticed any instability so far.

 

Both, had lockups with BSOD and game crashes, only happens while online, there was no consistency, code was different each time for the cause.  Never had an issue in single player.  Any way glad to hear its my system alone.  After one of the crashes upon reboot and re-entering the game I coordinated on comms with my squad mate, he gave me a map reference over a particular lake, I could see the area but the lakes were still too angled on the horizon to pick out that specific shaped lake, while watching that area just under two grids out I visually picked up his aircraft when he banked at an angle with maximum surface exposure in the orbit.  It's that clear, anyone on the box last night knows how it was under that overcast, not ideal lighting.  And than the system crashed again just before link up, two hard crashes, two game crashes, than reverted back to steamvr for game play purposes.

[firdimigdi]

On 4/6/2022 at 3:25 PM, pepper9881 said:

This is not about OpenComposite in my opinion. The point is  FFR or rather the fholger code of the author vrperfkit, as mbucchia confessed
he took the FFR code from vrperfkit.

 

I would like to point out that I was informed by mbucchia on github that this is not true. Perhaps you misconstrued something?

 

1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Both, had lockups with BSOD and game crashes, only happens while online

 

OK, that is likely down to general system instability - BSODs should never occur due to software that's operating at a high level and are usually a sign of either something happening on the hardware side (either high temperatures, unstable OC or a power supply that's out of whack) or a driver misbehaving. Might be worth investigating this a bit and spare you some frustration later on.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by firdimigdi

[pepper9881]

1 hour ago, firdimigdi said:

 

Я хотел бы отметить, что mbuchia сообщил мне на github, что это неправда . Возможно, вы что-то неправильно поняли?

 

proof from mbuccia ?

I literally looked at your code and credited it in my project

 

P.S.

Although, if read this carefully and pay attention to the word "like" in the meaning of "as if", then I'm wrong and my apologies to mr. mbucchia. English not native language for me

Edited April 30, 2022 by pepper9881

[mbucchia]

18 minutes ago, pepper9881 said:

proof from mbuccia ?

I literally looked at your code and credited it in my project

You don't really understand the things you are talking about here... we took the projection center calculations from vrperfkit, which is 5 lines of code. But your message implies that we took the entirety of the FFR code... gross misrepresentation and discrediting our work...

[firdimigdi]

29 minutes ago, pepper9881 said:

proof from mbuccia ?

I literally looked at your code and credited it in my project

 

P.S.

Although, if read this carefully and pay attention to the word "like" in the meaning of "as if", then I'm wrong and my apologies to mr. mbucchia. English not native language for me

 

I think the issue is more the extent - he did not take the whole of the FFR code, only the part he mentions about the calculations and he does credit it. So yes I think it's most likely a slight language barrier we have here. (also, the word "confess" is kind of loaded in English but obviously it came from an automatic translator)

 

Anyhow just wanted to clear that up so there's no misconception that the OpenXR Toolkit team just up and ripped off fholger's work or something when this is clearly not the case.

[[CPT]Crunch]

All fixed with a clean latest driver install, rock stable online, now the only thing throwing me out are the spitfires.  But they aren't catching me so much by surprise with the ability to see.  Do miss the necksafer though.

[MisterSmith]

I hid two posts that will require a citation before I allow them.

 

Smith

 

*EDIT

 

It appears you guys cleared it up later in the thread. As the posts contained misinformation they will remain hidden to keep the thread clean.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Remember this little gem we were all using a while back?  Well now you can have your cake and eat it too.  This FSR mode is compatible if your using openXR's universal install method, couldn't get a stable NIS mode though.  You need the universal install method in order to keep the original openvr_api.dll which folgers mod will need to replace to work.

 

https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr/releases

 

We're talking 90 fps downtown Koln at rooftop level.  Still messing with sharpen and such trying to find the optimal, no matter what setting the horizons still look great compared to steamVR.  But it's a keeper.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by [CPT]Crunch

[firdimigdi]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:05 PM, firdimigdi said:

Yeah upscaling would do that and I think that's a similar reason we see a difference between OpenVR and OpenXR (either that - as in OpenVR upscaling the image differently to fit the distortion profile - or OpenXR mode enforces different mip map biases). I've resorted to only using FSR's sharpening filter any more both because of that and the diminishing returns in performance due to upscaling an already high res image.

 

OK, so I wanted to find what the difference in rendering is. I couldn't quite see how and what... until I messed with the WMR->SteamVR bridge app and set "Force DX11 mode" to On - then indeed the difference between SteamVR and OpenXR is pretty substantial. Disabling it makes both modes render pretty much the same as far as clarity goes.

 

 

So my question to the people who use a WMR headset (like a G2) and see a huge difference between the two - do you perhaps have Force DX11 mode set to On?

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by firdimigdi

[[CPT]Crunch]

Nope, not on, the only real difference I see is the horizons are beautiful compared, there really is no horizon in steam for me seemingly under any patch or settings I've tried, always a wide band of blur.  There's also slightly less blur and shimmer all around, and the contacts have slightly better (darker) shading and definition (crisp and sharp) at all distances, its easier to ID and track them, any little bit helps in a big way.  Can make out cities and terrain features at further distances especially because of the cleared up horizons. 

 

Colors are still just as poor as steam, but its less like playing in a dirty fish bowl, helps with definition on everything when they're not blurred.  Once the tool kit with brightness and color levels goes prime time and works, than XR will utterly blow steamVR into the dirt bin of history.  Frames are about the same, but steam up to now had the advantage the FSR downscaling worked giving an ability to balance and trade off.

 

On my system I'm good pulling 90 FPS when I can get the 'or_height =' and 'or_width =' in the neighborhood of 2900 x 2900 using either method, it don't care.  It doesn't mind how I balance it or load up as long as that's the working in game resolution.  Just have to find the right combination to get the peak clarity and sharpness balanced against shimmer and blur while maintaining that res. 

 

Those two values in the game startup file should be the base starting point for anyone who wants to maximize their visuals.  Each user should set res to the point where they can pull 90 Fps and than note their specific resolution values, that's your base point, than you can go crazy doing the trade offs trying to maintain that point. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by [CPT]Crunch

[Picchio]

@firdimigdi

Always kept mine set to Off as well.

[firdimigdi]

26 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Nope, not on, the only real difference I see is the horizons are beautiful compared, there really is no horizon in steam for me seemingly under any patch or settings I've tried, always a wide band of blur. 

 

Interesting - with SteamVR do you see a difference between enabling that option and not?

 

  

5 minutes ago, Picchio said:

@firdimigdi

Always kept mine set to Off as well.

 

Same here.

 

There is a visual difference, there's no denying it, it was just hugely apparent when toggling that option.

 

Also for sure there's a difference in the way OpenXR and OpenVR calculate the final res, for example with OpenXR I get 2908 width at 85% while with OpenVR it goes to 2912.

 

In fact in all cases you don't even need to go further than the hangar in the main menu to see the difference. The barrels off to the right or the lathes are way more defined.

Edited May 2, 2022 by firdimigdi

[shirazjohn]

7 hours ago, firdimigdi said:

So my question to the people who use a WMR headset (like a G2) and see a huge difference between the two - do you perhaps have Force DX11 mode set to On?

 

 

I also have DX11 set to off (never tried it set to on).

I don't really see a huge difference  between open xr and open vr , but the image seems slightly more defined which does help with identifying targets also when flying over airfields, towns and villages the small buildings and vehicles seem to stand out more ( i  seem to notice more things around me).

 

I've viewed some recorded tracks over and over to compare and even though its not immediately obvious there is a difference. 

I'll stick with it for now but i do miss not having neck safer and worldscaling.

[firdimigdi]

9 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

I'll stick with it for now but i do miss not having neck safer and worldscaling.

 

Also as shown by your benchmark results, there is a tangible performance benefit as well for the lower limits of the framerate, probably the reason it seems to recover better when it dips.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by firdimigdi

[[CPT]Crunch]

We're getting closer, latest update the tools are now working proper within the hanger and menus, but it will crash the game as soon as you attempt to get in the fly with a plane.  Kind of neat to see the effects in the hanger and on the selected plane, loving the clarity and colors, goodbye to drab WWII monocolor.

[firdimigdi]

16 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

We're getting closer, latest update the tools are now working proper within the hanger and menus, but it will crash the game as soon as you attempt to get in the fly with a plane.  Kind of neat to see the effects in the hanger and on the selected plane, loving the clarity and colors, goodbye to drab WWII monocolor.

 

That's how it was on my end to start with (see the issue report in the openxr toolkit github).

 

However, I'm cautiously optimistic that the recent commits made to the toolkit's code which are specifically targeted to games using OpenComposite (and also completely disable foveated rendering for it in the process) which will likely be in the next toolkit release might address the underlying issue.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by firdimigdi

[SquashmanMikeEH]

So glad I found this thread - Only using OpenXR developer tools but what a difference!

Very noticeable improvement in fps, clarity and smoothness, and for the first time in VR I can identify aircraft at more than 1K without labels.

 

Had to disable the Toolkit because the game crashed on mission starting.

Great performance even with my lowly 2080Ti

 

I look forward to further developments

[dburne]

The developer is not even working on this software with IL-2 in mind, so anything you can get to work with it is a bonus.

I tried it with DCS and found at least for me currently with the Aero, I still prefer Steam VR. I will keep trying it again as he progresses more with it.

I have certainly used it with MSFS 2020 which has native Open XR support. It works wonders for it. But right now it gets the least amount of my time, I only have so much to spread around LOL.

 

[Customizer171]

15 hours ago, SquashmanMikeEH said:

So glad I found this thread - Only using OpenXR developer tools but what a difference!

Very noticeable improvement in fps, clarity and smoothness, and for the first time in VR I can identify aircraft at more than 1K without labels.

 

Had to disable the Toolkit because the game crashed on mission starting.

Great performance even with my lowly 2080Ti

 

I look forward to further developments

 

What kind of HMD do you have and what are your computer specs?

I use a Reverb G2 together with a Ryzen 5800 and a 3080.

The cockpit and wings of my plane looks amazing but far away objects is not particularly sharp and identifying a distant aircraft is impossible!

Was it hard to make it work?

I am NO computer geek and afraid to mess something up. It is playable as it is right now, but it would be great to get better clarity at distance!

[SquashmanMikeEH]

6 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

 

What kind of HMD do you have and what are your computer specs?

I use a Reverb G2 together with a Ryzen 5800 and a 3080.

The cockpit and wings of my plane looks amazing but far away objects is not particularly sharp and identifying a distant aircraft is impossible!

Was it hard to make it work?

I am NO computer geek and afraid to mess something up. It is playable as it is right now, but it would be great to get better clarity at distance!

I'm using Reverb G2, Core i7 6700K  with 2080Ti - which is inferior to your setup - so you should get better results

 

All I did was download the file, OCXR_WMR_ACC from the first post.

Unzip the file and it comes JSGME ready inside the correct folder hierarchy, or you can load the files manually to /bin/game/

 

WARNING - /game/ folder already contains a file named openvr_api.dll - so MOVE or SAVE this file before dropping the new files in, then you can easily go back if you want.

To play, start OpenXR Tools for WMR - I've been using a customised render scale of 60%. 

 

If you have the OpenXR Toolkit - Open it and make sure you click the disable button at the top left, so that you get "Toolkit layer is NOT active" on the dashboard in red text.

Then just start IL2 GB - happy flying

 

PS - I find that clarity in the G2 is also very dependent on setting correct IPD - the slider on the G2 seems a very clumsy way to do this but you can check in the WMR Portal how accurate you have it - Click Headset Display in Settings and look at Calibration, which gives an accurate reading when you move the HMD slider.

 

[Customizer171]

22 hours ago, SquashmanMikeEH said:

I'm using Reverb G2, Core i7 6700K  with 2080Ti - which is inferior to your setup - so you should get better results

 

All I did was download the file, OCXR_WMR_ACC from the first post.

Unzip the file and it comes JSGME ready inside the correct folder hierarchy, or you can load the files manually to /bin/game/

 

WARNING - /game/ folder already contains a file named openvr_api.dll - so MOVE or SAVE this file before dropping the new files in, then you can easily go back if you want.

To play, start OpenXR Tools for WMR - I've been using a customised render scale of 60%. 

 

If you have the OpenXR Toolkit - Open it and make sure you click the disable button at the top left, so that you get "Toolkit layer is NOT active" on the dashboard in red text.

Then just start IL2 GB - happy flying

 

PS - I find that clarity in the G2 is also very dependent on setting correct IPD - the slider on the G2 seems a very clumsy way to do this but you can check in the WMR Portal how accurate you have it - Click Headset Display in Settings and look at Calibration, which gives an accurate reading when you move the HMD slider.

 

 

Thank you.

I will give it a try one day when I feel motivated and have lots of time!

Cant help feeling a bit overwelmed by all the technical stuff we need to learn to play sims like IL2 in VR.

Wish it was much easier ?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Customizer171 said:

 

Thank you.

I will give it a try one day when I feel motivated and have lots of time!

Cant help feeling a bit overwelmed by all the technical stuff we need to learn to play sims like IL2 in VR.

Wish it was much easier ?

 

One can always just run it in Steam VR with no Mods.

Pretty simple and really IL-2 has good VR performance anyway.

[Customizer171]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:57 PM, dburne said:

 

One can always just run it in Steam VR with no Mods.

Pretty simple and really IL-2 has good VR performance anyway.

 

Yes, I already play in Steam VR.

However, I find it very difficult to id other aircrafts and my horizon is more blurry than I wish, so I was hoping Open XR would make it look better.

My biggest problem is all the tweaking, it would be ok if it just had to be done once and then forget about it, but after every update, it feels like it´s necessary to adjust something. I actually have no interest in computers at all, but I had to learn some because I really wanted to play this game, and I love it!  

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, Customizer171 said:

 

Yes, I already play in Steam VR.

However, I find it very difficult to id other aircrafts and my horizon is more blurry than I wish, so I was hoping Open XR would make it look better.

My biggest problem is all the tweaking, it would be ok if it just had to be done once and then forget about it, but after every update, it feels like it´s necessary to adjust something. I actually have no interest in computers at all, but I had to learn some because I really wanted to play this game, and I love it!  

 

Ok certainly give it a go if you wish just be aware the Open XR Toolkit developer does not currently support it with IL-2. But if you can make it work and it is better for you go for it.