Cloud/Sun effects after latest 4.703 update

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Well I managed to get rid of the banding but not the "jumping jaggedness" in the bottom layer of the clouds in a circle around the plane.

However, it's a no go for the solution. It requires ULTRA preset and EXTREME clouds which tanks my FPS and frame times. So even though it is not nice to look up flying under clouds and you see an image resembling oil-rings on water I have reverted the settings back to HIGH. This is unfortunately a very big immersion killer in VR and as stated by others it is not like this in other simulators (and I have them all but shall refrain from mentioning them). 

In every other aspect this is a marvelous simulator and all cudos to the dev team but this should in my humble opinion be addressed since the future lies with VR.

 

PC: Win 10 Home (21H2 Build 19044.1566), ASUS PRIME Z690-P D4, DDR4 32 GB RAM (3400 MHz), Intel Core i5-12600K (P core 5.0 / E core 3.8 / Ring 4.0), GIGABYTE RTX 3080 VISION OC 10G (rev2), Monitor Acer Predator 100Hz 3440x1440
VR: Reverb G2 (rev 2) WMR @ 90Hz and 2160x2160 resolution, Steam VR Beta, WMR for Steam Beta, No reprojection, Steam VR PD set @ 2448x2396 resolution (60%)
GC: Virpil T-50CM2 Stick, VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, MFG Crosswind Pedals
NV Driver 511.79

[FTC_horsky]

I also did as you mentioned @SvAF/F16_Goblin, upped to ultra preset, extreme clouds, also upped steam SS% to 100% from 70%, with and without FSR, well just all different combinations, frame-time tanks, banding still there, just a little more subtle, "oil-rings" as mentioned.

[firdimigdi]

4 hours ago, Goffik said:

 

Didn't do anything for me in VR. Anytime the cloud colour is relatively dark, regardless of ambient light levels, there is horrible banding.

 

Cinematic option has no effect in VR that I can tell. It'll only help with monitors since it removes the vignette effect from the camera.

 

The only "real" solution for banding with raymarched clouds that are currently in the game is dithering - even the Ultra preset /Extreme cloud combination doesn't remove it 100% on either VR or monitors, it just increases the steps of the raymarching.

I wrote about it when we first had the new clouds introduced here - you can also find a simple example of the technique in the post and you can play with the number of steps / enable/disable dithering; set it to display in full screen and you'll see the same effect as we have in IL2:
 

On line 72 of the sample comment out the line that reads #define DITHERING and press alt+enter or click on the compile button and the cloud will turn in to this, which is basically what we see in IL2 with more or less steps to the rendering layers:

 

Dithering techniques are by no means free-of-performance hits or magically fix everything without possibly introducing their own artifacts/annoyances.  I am fairly certain the developers have tried stuff out in regards to this, at some point like with other things they'll likely figure out some scheme that has the less performance impact while maintaining a level of visual parity for both VR and screen players.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[Skycat1969]

In my tests HDR turned on paired with High or Extreme cloud quality looks best for sunrise, sunset and night. Unfortunately HDR also turns night into a muddy gray. HDR also washes out details in daytime scenarios. I may have to experiment further for which option works best for typical career missions.

[FTC_horsky]

2 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Cinematic option has no effect in VR that I can tell. It'll only help with monitors since it removes the vignette effect from the camera.

 

The only "real" solution for banding with raymarched clouds that are currently in the game is dithering - even the Ultra preset /Extreme cloud combination doesn't remove it 100% on either VR or monitors, it just increases the steps of the raymarching.

I wrote about it when we first had the new clouds introduced here - you can also find a simple example of the technique in the post and you can play with the number of steps / enable/disable dithering; set it to display in full screen and you'll see the same effect as we have in IL2:
 

On line 72 of the sample comment out the line that reads #define DITHERING and press alt+enter or click on the compile button and the cloud will turn in to this, which is basically what we see in IL2 with more or less steps to the rendering layers:

 

Dithering techniques are by no means free-of-performance hits or magically fix everything without possibly introducing their own artifacts/annoyances.  I am fairly certain the developers have tried stuff out in regards to this, at some point like with other things they'll likely figure out some scheme that has the less performance impact while maintaining a level of visual parity for both VR and screen players.

 

 

Great info @Firdimigdi

 

Sometimes I leisure fly in IL2, then I turn mods on and use Lefunestes VR Enhancer mod to remove the banding. I experience somewhat lesser performance, but negligible. I haven't benchmarked it. But there is a small cost. In the same mod there are options that maybe also add to the overall performance. Maybe if possible and if devs have time we could have an option in graphics settings "Dithering on/off". ?
 

Edited March 20, 2022 by SvAF/F16_horsky

[nozedyve]

Yep, banding issues here too since the 4.703 update, unfortunately. Using a screen display, not VR.

I have tried the options posted by Firdimigdi, also have my graphics settings at Ultra / Extreme Clouds, and Cinematic disabled. I also tried with and without my ReShade profile, thinking that might have an impact. So far I have not been able to get rid of the cloud banding effects. I guess I will have to limit my flying to clear, sunny skies!

Its all a bit disappointing, more so because I had recently deleted my Ver. 4.702 backup, so I can't even revert to that for offline play!

Relevant specs are Ryzen 5 5600X, Asus Rog Strix B550_F Gaming WiFi, Asus TUF 3060Ti, Dell U2715H.

 

I hope the issue can soon be resolved via a hotfix. In the meantime I will continue to experiment.

Edited March 20, 2022 by nozedyve
typo

[FTC_horsky]

Forgot to show these, pulling high Gs also makes banding effect very apparent.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by SvAF/F16_horsky

[JG700_Benek]

For the banding part Nvidia users can try this tool:

 

https://github.com/ledoge/novideo_srgb/releases

 

there is an option to enable dithering in many modes so maybe one of them will help you guys

 

Also this tool is goodsend if you have wide gamut monitor and want to have correct colors in SRGB. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by JG700_Benek

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

7 hours ago, nozedyve said:

Yep, banding issues here too since the 4.703 update, unfortunately. Using a screen display, not VR.

I have tried the options posted by Firdimigdi, also have my graphics settings at Ultra / Extreme Clouds, and Cinematic disabled. I also tried with and without my ReShade profile, thinking that might have an impact. So far I have not been able to get rid of the cloud banding effects. I guess I will have to limit my flying to clear, sunny skies!

Its all a bit disappointing, more so because I had recently deleted my Ver. 4.702 backup, so I can't even revert to that for offline play!

Relevant specs are Ryzen 5 5600X, Asus Rog Strix B550_F Gaming WiFi, Asus TUF 3060Ti, Dell U2715H.

 

I hope the issue can soon be resolved via a hotfix. In the meantime I will continue to experiment.

I finaly get rid of banding in 2d , use ultra present and clouds to high not extreme,  and rest nvidia settings to defaults.  

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

13 hours ago, JG700_Benek said:

For the banding part Nvidia users can try this tool:

 

https://github.com/ledoge/novideo_srgb/releases

 

there is an option to enable dithering in many modes so maybe one of them will help you guys

 

Also this tool is goodsend if you have wide gamut monitor and want to have correct colors in SRGB. 

 

 

Unfortunately this works only on monitors, not in VR

[nozedyve]

11 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I finaly get rid of banding in 2d , use ultra present and clouds to high not extreme,  and rest nvidia settings to defaults.  

Thank you for the suggestions. I tried your settings, still had some banding when flying in dark grey clouds. Actually, very similar to the High Gs banding effect reported by SvAF/F16_horsky above. Maybe there is some correlation between the two - dark grey being the colour most affected in both instances?

[AtomicP]

On 3/20/2022 at 1:35 AM, KevPBur said:

I had terrible banded circles too. Resolved by unsetting the cinematic option in camera settings.

I wondered what caused that vignetting. Thanks!

[IckyATLAS]

I always had the Cinematic option On in camera settings. I tried it Off and see no difference at all. But honestly I have no idea what this cinematic setting stands for.

If anybody can help and explain I would be very happy.

[firdimigdi]

43 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

I always had the Cinematic option On in camera settings. I tried it Off and see no difference at all. But honestly I have no idea what this cinematic setting stands for.

If anybody can help and explain I would be very happy.

 

The most apparent thing is that it adds a vignette effect (darkens the corners of your screen), no idea if it does anything else - it's supposed to only do it in external cameras but it unfortunately also did it in cockpit cameras.

[kendo]

From the official manual:

 

"Enabling the Cinematic camera effect option simulates the effect of a non-stabilized camera. That is, the
camera will move horizontally and vertically, thus simulating it being attached to an aircraft that is being buffeted
around. Keep this checkbox cleared if you want your external camera view to remain stable.

 

This option also adds a motion blur effect as you move your point of view around while inside the cockpit."

 

Nothing about a vignette effect. I use cinematic camera and have never noticed a vignette effect. Been looking back at some old screen shots - ? - If there is anything there it must be vanishingly subtle. I seem to remember a vignette effect option in Reshade - maybe people are thinking of that?

 

edit: screen below shows the motion blur effect

Edited March 22, 2022 by kendo

[firdimigdi]

51 minutes ago, kendo said:

Nothing about a vignette effect. I use cinematic camera and have never noticed a vignette effect. Been looking back at some old screen shots - ? - If there is anything there it must be vanishingly subtle. I seem to remember a vignette effect option in Reshade - maybe people are thinking of that?

 

Look at the screenshot you posted - the corners are darker. Easily noticed on the top that's the sky.

In case it's not apparent then here's a comparison:

 

Cinematic on - observe the top corners

 

Cinematic off

 

It is subtle, but it's there and in certain lighting situations can cause what appears like banding due to the radial gradient that it applies, hence the complaints some people had of "concentric dark circles".

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[Jason_Williams]

We’ve already solved and tested a fix for the banding in Beta with various presets. This thread is now obsolete.

 

Jason

[MajorMagee]

So will the fix be implemented in 4.703c, or 4.704?

Edited March 23, 2022 by MajorMagee

[FTC_horsky]

Thank you!

[Ribbon]

12 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

We’ve already solved and tested a fix for the banding in Beta with various presets. This thread is now obsolete.

 

Jason

Any news on fixing overdone sun glare?

In VR 40% of flying time is now in washed white picture blinded by the sun glare, some squad members were also complaining havin a same problem on 2D monitors.

 

[nozedyve]

Excellent news. Thank you

[Jason_Williams]

We've addressed what we could in this latest Hotfix. Sun glare was reduced by a 1/3rd or so. The sun is a real enemy in real life for pilots. I've spoken to a few of them and they don't think our sun glare is out of control. VR rendering and Monitor rendering still work the same way, just because of your more limited FOV and narrow screens in VR it comes across differently to some, but there is no change in the math or how it works.

 

Anytime the sun comes into  your vision in real life it has an affects your vision. Our sun technology has like 5 moving parts to it. It's not just a bright orb in the sky. It's a quite complex model.

 

The stars and planets have been reduced as much as we can without causing artifacts and strange blinking. 

 

I'll close this thread because we have addressed the three main complaints here. 

 

Jason