Cybermat47 Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, CountZero said: churchill is the worst posible choice, it would be better if they selected onother axis tank insted of it. Between the Churchill and some Axis tanks... ... I think the Churchill is a better choice 3
ShamrockOneFive Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) I personally love that we're getting a British tank! Look at it... what a brute! Edited March 19, 2022 by ShamrockOneFive 7
Alexmarine Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 7 hours ago, ACG_Pike said: They were never used in a vacuum. Infantry, anti-tank artillery, air support, etc.. Well, apart from infantry we can have all the rest already...
Asgar Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said: I personally love that we're getting a British tank! Look at it... what a brute! I like it too! Such a nice big target for my StuG xD i really want that TC2 announcement already. I need some Battle of the Bulge action. There are so many great planes in BoBP and BoN to cover the sky in that scenario! 1
ShamrockOneFive Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Asgar said: I like it too! Such a nice big target for my StuG xD i really want that TC2 announcement already. I need some Battle of the Bulge action. There are so many great planes in BoBP and BoN to cover the sky in that scenario! Hoping for a Tank Crew 2 as well! 1
danielprates Posted March 20, 2022 Posted March 20, 2022 11 hours ago, Cybermat47 said: Between the Churchill and some Axis tanks... ... I think the Churchill is a better choice Well, if competent battlefield performance, survivability and firepower is what you want, then yes by all means, but.... for picking up groceries in style, you can't beat the tankette.
13/JG5_Luck Posted March 20, 2022 Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/17/2022 at 2:55 PM, Jooyz said: Maybe because there was a german propaganda about the luftwaffe ? And I think that the devs are doing the right thing about using german and soviet sources. What I don't understand, what is bothering you about ingame luftwaffe aviation ? The planes are good as the allied one, there is still a problem with the damage models but this is fixing with updates. If there are some mistakes with german / english / soviet planes, there are dedicated topics with all of us giving the feedback. There was no propaganda at the interface between the Reichsluftfahrtminsterium and the industry. Plenty of original data are available, most of it was rescued, especially regarding the bred and butter planes like the Me 109. (Bureaucrazy was never destroyed in Germany) Due to the living war bird community all over the globe many construction plans are now digitalized and available in CAD, because they are used to produce spare parts for the flying In addition there are plenty of british sources available, which have been written down in the 50 tees , were people knew the facts. Nobody of you has a clue of the insights regarding German planes from allied pilots as e.g. Pierre Clostermann, or Eric Brown? Brown, a British Naval fighter and test pilot flew almost every war plane on both sides at the end of the war and after and he really knew and could compare. 1
[Tarczay]SandorGrof Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 5:54 AM, LukeFF said: Because they're modeling tanks that were at Operation Citadel. This is a disaster. +we have got airplanes from late war period. No reason to ignore late war tanks from the allied and Russian side. The land-lease Churchill had probably the worst gun and ammunition and mobility combo in WWII. This is NOT the late war Churchill and no late war ammo is excepted. So what we can get? 70 or 60 mm of penetration? Even late war British ammo for the 6 pounder was heavily obsolete! Even with point blank range 110+mm penetration is ridiculous against Tigers and Panthers. I disagree with this decision. This is wasted potential! We were waiting for something/anything balance out the German tanks. Anyone who buy this will regrets it bitterly! Its not acceptable even for free content. But sell it for money and pre-order is outrageous! 3 1
Asgar Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, [Tarczay]SandorGrof said: This is a disaster. +we have got airplanes from late war period. No reason to ignore late war tanks from the allied and Russian side. The land-lease Churchill had probably the worst gun and ammunition and mobility combo in WWII. This is NOT the late war Churchill and no late war ammo is excepted. So what we can get? 70 or 60 mm of penetration? Even late war British ammo for the 6 pounder was heavily obsolete! Even with point blank range 110+mm penetration is ridiculous against Tigers and Panthers. I disagree with this decision. This is wasted potential! We were waiting for something/anything balance out the German tanks. Anyone who buy this will regrets it bitterly! Its not acceptable even for free content. But sell it for money and pre-order is outrageous! nobody is forcing you to buy it. I bought it, because I enjoy playing the game and want to support it so it can keep growing. I also don't want just any radom tank, but one that makes sense in the scenario we're playing. I'm looking forward to the day they'll announce TC2 and I'm sure when that day comes we'll see a number of great Western allies tanks. 2
Pikestance Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 I am a bit baffled by the tank complaints. Isn't Tank Crew the Battle of Prokhorovka in July 1943? Why would they make tanks for the late war on the Western Front? Am I missing something here? I am not an expert on tanks. 3
13/JG5_Luck Posted March 28, 2022 Posted March 28, 2022 I tried the Ju 88 C6 and I'm still wondering about the developers. In the engine description they write the engines are good for 30 minutes at 1.25 ata at 2400 rpm. This is shown on the pressure gauge as well where the german description "Steigleistung" und "Startleistung" is shown correctly. In the game you can fly at 1.3 ata for 30 minutes without problems. The "yellow" notification in the tech chat starts at 1.3 ata, this is not correct and does not match the instruments. I really wonder if the developers have a clue what they are doing. In the Me 110 G2 on the gauges there are abbreviations for "Normalleistung", "Kampfleistung" und "Notleistung". But these signs are not printed correctly on the gauges. So I get more and more the impression they are doing something without having a deeper understanding of the engines or they care a s.... about the details.
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 28, 2022 1CGS Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, 13/JG5_Luck said: In the Me 110 G2 on the gauges there are abbreviations for "Normalleistung", "Kampfleistung" und "Notleistung". But these signs are not printed correctly on the gauges. The markings on those gauges are taken directly from original sources, such as from here: https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/original-geraetebrett-me-110-g-4 and also here: https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/nachbau-geraetebrett-bf-110-g-4 The developers do care very much about the details, so if you have further sources, please let either them or myself and @Oyster_KAI know, so we can see about implementing them. Oyster is a champ when it comes to texture work, so if something can be changed and there are good sources behind it, changes can be made.
CountZero Posted March 28, 2022 Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, 13/JG5_Luck said: I tried the Ju 88 C6 and I'm still wondering about the developers. In the engine description they write the engines are good for 30 minutes at 1.25 ata at 2400 rpm. This is shown on the pressure gauge as well where the german description "Steigleistung" und "Startleistung" is shown correctly. In the game you can fly at 1.3 ata for 30 minutes without problems. The "yellow" notification in the tech chat starts at 1.3 ata, this is not correct and does not match the instruments. I really wonder if the developers have a clue what they are doing. In the Me 110 G2 on the gauges there are abbreviations for "Normalleistung", "Kampfleistung" und "Notleistung". But these signs are not printed correctly on the gauges. So I get more and more the impression they are doing something without having a deeper understanding of the engines or they care a s.... about the details. Tech chat warnings about power settings dont match exactly on any airplane in game, if you just use tech chat like most players you will usealy fly abow what manuals say. i ask about it here: answer was: I believe that you are wrong, because neither the real flight manual nor the game specifications indicate exactly when the combat mode ends. The specifications indicate the nominal parameters of the mode. For example, for F4: combat mode - 1.3 ata / 2500 RPM, but this does not mean that at 1.31 ata or at 2520 RPM - an emergency mode, as you think. But if you want the F4 engine to run for 30 minutes, just set 1.3 / 2500 (or 80% throttle), and you will not need any tech chat. So what tech chat show at max values is wrong, and you should not trust it if maxing it out. To me this is clearly working wrongly in game as they can pick and chose exactly at what point tech chat turns on or off, and set it at exact value their spec say combat or climb oe what ever power mod ends, not how its now, that they work abow thouse values we see in specs. Edited March 28, 2022 by CountZero
13/JG5_Luck Posted March 28, 2022 Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, LukeFF said: The markings on those gauges are taken directly from original sources, such as from here: https:// and also here: https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/nachbau-geraetebrett-bf-110-g-4 The developers do care very much about the details, so if you have further sources, please let either them or myself and @Oyster_KAI know, so we can see about implementing them. Oyster is a champ when it comes to texture work, so if something can be changed and there are good sources behind it, changes can be made. Thy for your quick answer but you didn't get my point. The gauges are beautifully drawn, no question about that but they don't fit to the technical data which you show for the aircraft. Me110 G2 has markings in red on the gauges for manifold pressure and tachometer, which show the 3 operating modes: "d" is the german abbreviation for "Dauerbetrieb", which means unlimited time. (its translated into Nennleistung in the German manual, which is fine.) "30'" means 30 minutes "Kampfleistung", which is the combat power for 30 minutes. "1-2" means "Notleistung" or "Startleistung" for 1-2 minutes. So far so good. Please find below the comparison regarding the 110 G2 as taken from the game: your technical data sheet your gauge markings your technical chat info Dauerleistung 1.15 ata 1.24 ata 1.15 ata (green max) 2300 rpm 2350 rpm 2350 rpm Kampfleistung 1.3 ata 1.32 ata 1.34 ata (yellow max) 2600 rpm 2500 rpm 2700 rpm Notleistung 1.42 ata 1.42 ata 1.42 ata (red at max power) 2800 rpm 2700 rpm 2850 rpm Your datas from the technical data sheet and in the technical chat info match more or less, only minor variances. But the gauge markings do not fit at all. If the gauge markings are correctly taken from your picture above your technical datas are not correct. You took the picture from a G4 model, which was a night fighter based on the G2 model. Both have been fitted with the DB 605 B-1, so this should be fine. But the G2 had Rüstsätze with the GM1 performance booster system, this might be an additional source for confusion. I guess you should double check where your technical data come from and if they fit to the G2 model. Sorry for being a pain in the neck.
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 28, 2022 1CGS Posted March 28, 2022 49 minutes ago, 13/JG5_Luck said: Thy for your quick answer but you didn't get my point. The gauges are beautifully drawn, no question about that but they don't fit to the technical data which you show for the aircraft. Me110 G2 has markings in red on the gauges for manifold pressure and tachometer, which show the 3 operating modes: "d" is the german abbreviation for "Dauerbetrieb", which means unlimited time. (its translated into Nennleistung in the German manual, which is fine.) "30'" means 30 minutes "Kampfleistung", which is the combat power for 30 minutes. "1-2" means "Notleistung" or "Startleistung" for 1-2 minutes. So far so good. Please find below the comparison regarding the 110 G2 as taken from the game: your technical data sheet your gauge markings your technical chat info Dauerleistung 1.15 ata 1.24 ata 1.15 ata (green max) 2300 rpm 2350 rpm 2350 rpm Kampfleistung 1.3 ata 1.32 ata 1.34 ata (yellow max) 2600 rpm 2500 rpm 2700 rpm Notleistung 1.42 ata 1.42 ata 1.42 ata (red at max power) 2800 rpm 2700 rpm 2850 rpm Your datas from the technical data sheet and in the technical chat info match more or less, only minor variances. But the gauge markings do not fit at all. If the gauge markings are correctly taken from your picture above your technical datas are not correct. You took the picture from a G4 model, which was a night fighter based on the G2 model. Both have been fitted with the DB 605 B-1, so this should be fine. But the G2 had Rüstsätze with the GM1 performance booster system, this might be an additional source for confusion. I guess you should double check where your technical data come from and if they fit to the G2 model. Sorry for being a pain in the neck. It looks to me like these gauge markings were perhaps one of those so-called off the shelf items that were designed to be used in a multitude of planes. At least, that seems to be the case with the Bf 110 C and E as well: https://waihobbies.wkhc.net/index.php/35-models/sky/world-war-2/96-messerchimdt-bf110-c-instrument-panel-1-4-scale http://thegreatcanadianmodelbuilderswebpage.blogspot.com/2013/04/messerschmitt-bf-109-e-bf-110-c.html http://www.maquetland.com/article-1043-allemagne-aviation-messerschmitt-me-bf-110-english-version- Believe me, I've looked up and down and all over the place trying to find other images of these placards, but the result is they either look all the same, or the images are so low-resolution that it's impossible to make out the positioning of the text. It also doesn't help that there are very few (if any) cockpit images of Bf 110s from museums, in particular the one at Hendon. So, at the moment, what we have is the best information available.
13/JG5_Luck Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 2 hours ago, LukeFF said: It looks to me like these gauge markings were perhaps one of those so-called off the shelf items that were designed to be used in a multitude of planes. At least, that seems to be the case with the Bf 110 C and E as well: https://waihobbies.wkhc.net/index.php/35-models/sky/world-war-2/96-messerchimdt-bf110-c-instrument-panel-1-4-scale http://thegreatcanadianmodelbuilderswebpage.blogspot.com/2013/04/messerschmitt-bf-109-e-bf-110-c.html http://www.maquetland.com/article-1043-allemagne-aviation-messerschmitt-me-bf-110-english-version- Believe me, I've looked up and down and all over the place trying to find other images of these placards, but the result is they either look all the same, or the images are so low-resolution that it's impossible to make out the positioning of the text. It also doesn't help that there are very few (if any) cockpit images of Bf 110s from museums, in particular the one at Hendon. So, at the moment, what we have is the best information available. The gauge markings have been individual, due to safety reasons and German bureaucracy the Luftwaffe would never allow other gauge markings as those for the specific aircraft. I would exclude your guess from above. The pictures from E and D models wouldn't help because they have other engines. They only show the limit data for these DB engines, not for the DB 605 B-2 which has been used in the model G2. If you are sure to have the right performance data, why don't you draw the ata and rpm limits to the right place on the gauge? You know how they need to look like, just put the text above the right places at the gauge.
1CGS LukeFF Posted March 29, 2022 1CGS Posted March 29, 2022 I poked around some more and found one more original reference, this time from a true Bf 110 G-2 cockpit diagram. The resolution is not the greatest, but from what I can tell the placard markings are where they are on the textures right now.
Oyster_KAI Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 About 9 months ago, when we corrected the placard markings of the Bf-110, the devs had already told me about how to change that markings on E2/G2, IIRC, this consensus was the result of the discussions among the beta personnel at that time. It's not that we don't make the markings "completely" conform to the engine performance of 110-G2. 1
13/JG5_Luck Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 Thx for your answers and effort. I've no doubt, that you did the texture as the developers told you. Though, I still don't get it. The markings on the gauge do not match the performance data as shown in the technical data and in the tech chat. (see my table). So it's not logical. If I operate the engines due to the gauges I would be in trouble. In my opinion there are two possibilities: If you have the pictures of the right gauges with clearly visible placard markings, the technical data of the engines would not be correct. If the technical data are correct, the placard markings don't fit. What did your comment mean "consensus between beta personnel?
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