To VR users in the Great Battles series (VR beta testing is about to commence in the Dover series)

[=420=Syphen]

31 minutes ago, drewm3i-VR said:

There is ALWAYS SOME microstuttering in vr in il2 when in combat online, especially after the last update. 

 

Nope. Not a problem on my rig. Butter. Smooth.

 

It's likely your CPU. 

[Eisenfaustus]

1 hour ago, messsucher said:

It is a matter of disliking arcade, simple as that.

Just that it isn‘t arcade. If it was then using a HOTAS instead an cockpit replica would be arcade as well…

 

why is it so important to you anyway? As far as I understood you can disable that feature for your own experience if you don’t like it - but why do you want to be able to take it away from others?

 

Why should anyone with beck issues coming from TrackIR to vr lose the ability to check six in MP? 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

3 hours ago, =420=Syphen said:

 

Nope. Not a problem on my rig. Butter. Smooth.

 

It's likely your CPU. 

I have a ryzen 5600x running with SMT, optimized via process lasso, and I'm sustaining 4.85ghz with the best ram money can buy. It's not the cpu.

[messsucher]

2 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Just that it isn‘t arcade. If it was then using a HOTAS instead an cockpit replica would be arcade as well…

 

why is it so important to you anyway? As far as I understood you can disable that feature for your own experience if you don’t like it - but why do you want to be able to take it away from others?

 

Why should anyone with beck issues coming from TrackIR to vr lose the ability to check six in MP? 

 

Where I have said I want to take it away from other people? Please show me that, for I said first time in my first message that make the feature, just put it under difficulty/realism settings. And this I have keep saying all the time.

 

Now, you tell what is this BIG ISSUE you not wanting the feature to be made as toggleable feature? Someone was talking something about ego, is this a matter of ego? Using arcade features makes you not a "serious simmer", so there is a need to say arcade features are not arcade features? Note I call stuff what it is, I don't put emotions in the words. Whatever emotions you get of the word "arcade" are yours, not mine.

 

I want a server what does not have arcade features enabled. Currently there is only one such server, that is TAW, where techochat, a very obvious and glaring arcade feature is disabled. When they did that first time there was a lot of complaints, but now nobody complain anymore of that "you can't min max engine settings to 1% accuracy on the fly" (pun intended).

 

These VR snapshots are obvious arcade feature, like every other accessibility/arcade/difficulty feature in the game. Those matter because real tactics (formation flying) are more valuable when you can't use arcade owl neck views in a split second. Also, pilot's mental capability to have a glue, situational awareness, depend on how he can observe his surroundings. Making arcade split second owl head peeks around you makes the game obviously too easy and unrealistic, pilots were never able to do that IRL. They had to make decisions should they try check their six just in case or should they keep focusing hard on other views. Split seconding your rear areas is just arcade, and take away the great feature of VR, that is that you actually have to move your head like they did IRL.

 

To who this is a matter of ego to put the arcade owl neck features where they belong, to the realism/difficulty setting? I can promise you most of the servers will keep those features enabled, like they do now with the technochat. But TAW, the Real Men's Server, might disable it for good :DDD 

[Eisenfaustus]

58 minutes ago, messsucher said:

Where I have said I want to take it away from other people?

[…]
Someone was talking something about ego, is this a matter of ego?

 

1 hour ago, messsucher said:

But TAW, the Real Men's Server, might disable it for good

Thanks for answering your own question. 
 

Let me ask you something in return:

Are you aware that…

… this thread is about upcoming CLOD VR not BoX?

… affordable VR headrests limit your field of view far more then any pilot glasses of the 1940s?

… ANY other method of viewing around DOES give you the ability to look back 180deg?

[Strewth]

[messsucher]

1 hour ago, Eisenfaustus said:

 

Thanks for answering your own question. 
 

Let me ask you something in return:

Are you aware that…

… this thread is about upcoming CLOD VR not BoX?

… affordable VR headrests limit your field of view far more then any pilot glasses of the 1940s?

… ANY other method of viewing around DOES give you the ability to look back 180deg?

 

It is very irrelevant for me do you think is it a matter of ego for me or not. So we can make a deal: we say it is a matter of ego and then implement the feature properly as an arcade toggleable feature, like automated rudder etc. has been implemented as an arcade accessibility feature for those with "gear issues" or just wanting to have it easy and simplified.

 

Lets do this deal, and lets end this discussion here, especially because of
 

Quote

 

Are you aware that…

… this thread is about upcoming CLOD VR not BoX?

 

 

Now stop it, or if you - or anyone else - want to keep discussing this, please do make a new proper thread for this.

[Algy-Lacey]

11 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Who exactly is going to be tasked with creating those complex missions where you are going to be facing all those enemy squadrons?

I really have no idea. I was merely saying that, due to the complexity and limitation of the game engine, in IL-2 GB's the dogfights are relatively small. In Blitz and Tobruk there is at least the possibility of huge air battles, which is a different kettle of fish.

[Jaegermeister]

6 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

… affordable VR headrests limit your field of view far more then any pilot glasses of the 1940s?

 

or not...

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

To Algy-Lacey: in all fairness, the Dover series is far less successful than the Great Battles series not because of VR but because of the simple fact that long ago, when the world was young and birds sang for the first time on earth, "Cliffs of Dover" was released at an incomplete stage, in addition of presenting serious bugs. That was in 2011 and the bulk of the bugs has been addressed since then... though there are still a few problems out there in the Dover series (no dynamic campaigns if not using the external app by TheOden, not a real quick mission builder like in Great Battles, etc.). Nevertheless, whatever the qualities one may find in the Great Battles game I (I, me, myself... personally) prefer by far the Dover series. Again, the comparison between the two sims is not the goal in this topic, but if the two games end up by being both VR-compatible (and if VR fits well in  the Dover game), I think VR users will find that both games complement each other very well. I play both games regularly, loving each one for what it is. For example, in the Dover series, I LOVE to fly the Tiger Moth, which provides a completely different experience of engine-management. In Great Battles, I purchased planes like the PO-2 or the Ju 52, only for the pleasure of flying them, and I preordered the C-47 even if I didn't purchase the Normandy module...

 

 

[messsucher]

I have bought all DLC planes in BoX, only flew the Fiat of them. This ain't going to change anytime soon.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 minutes ago, messsucher said:

only flew the Fiat of them

 

 

You mean the Macchi, don't you?

 

[messsucher]

1 minute ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

You mean the Macchi, don't you?

 

 

Yeah. But it was spectacular.

[FuriousMeow]

9 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

I have a ryzen 5600x running with SMT, optimized via process lasso, and I'm sustaining 4.85ghz with the best ram money can buy. It's not the cpu.

 

Have you tried NOT using process lasso?

[Lusekofte]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:18 PM, messsucher said:

They should only implement it with realism difficulty toggle. If you have tight neck, then that is a feature of your pilot. Pilots are different, and because of variety of reasons some pilots are better than other pilots. That sort of features try to make everyone on the same ground, taking away natural  reasons why some are better pilots than other. It is thus communism in virtual combat simulator. The feature is a subset of padlock, which was argued similarly to be "realistic" because else some have it harder. Someone have it harder, yes, that is life, there is nothing wrong in that, and arcade features should be able to be disabled or enabled.

 

 

Then we need to have servers for 10+ 20+

>60+

We are not real combat pilots. 

[messsucher]

26 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Then we need to have servers for 10+ 20+

>60+

We are not real combat pilots. 

 

No. You just have to accept you are old men in bad condition, go to league of your own, and stop gatekeeping the world for young guns.

[Dagwoodyt]

6 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

I really have no idea. I was merely saying that, due to the complexity and limitation of the game engine, in IL-2 GB's the dogfights are relatively small. In Blitz and Tobruk there is at least the possibility of huge air battles, which is a different kettle of fish.

Then you are simply repeating a fantasy. If there is no one who is going to volunteer the undoubtedly hundreds of hours needed to make those grand missions for you, you will either never see them or will need to invest the time yourself. Even then those missions might not be able to run on your hardware. This is just a fantasy that comes up routinely to pump up a sim that is in many respects still needing to play catch up.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[messsucher]

7 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Then you are simply repeating a fantasy. If there is no one who is going to volunteer the undoubtedly hundreds of hours needed to make those grand missions for you, you will either never see them or will need to invest the time yourself. Even then those missions might not be able to run on your hardware. This is just a fantasy that comes up routinely to pump up a sim that is many respects still needing to play catch up.

 

There actually were in original IL-2 missions with massive bomber formations. For example in coop servers.

[Algy-Lacey]

22 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Then you are simply repeating a fantasy. If there is no one who is going to volunteer the undoubtedly hundreds of hours needed to make those grand missions for you, you will either never see them or will need to invest the time yourself. Even then those missions might not be able to run on your hardware. This is just a fantasy that comes up routinely to pump up a sim that is many respects still needing to play catch up.

Well, that pissed on my bonfire! Like I said, I really have no idea, so you're right that I am parroting others' views.

 

Some more hearsay... Just today I have been reliably informed by @343KKT_Kintaro that there is an external campaign generator by TheOden. Kintaro also informed me that he played an online mission with 80 AI German bombers over the City of London with online players in fighters, I'm don't think that IL-2 GB's could pull that off without massive slowdowns (time dilation).

 

Out of interest, Blitz and Tobruk users... please can you tell us of the best big battle you have flown in that sim? How many aircraft? Ground activity? Populated Airbases?

One last question... Is there an equivalent of IL-2 1946's Full Mission Builder? And is it user friendly like IL-2 1946's was? because IL-2 GB's takes a long time to learn, or so I hear

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

Edited February 10, 2022 by Algy-Lacey
mistake, not called "TheOden", but created by TheOden

[Dagwoodyt]

10 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

There actually were in original IL-2 missions with massive bomber formations. For example in coop servers.

Great, but the fact is that just because you can (potentially) see large numbers of aircraft doesn't mean there is any way to interact with them in a meaningful way, especially if the comms system and AI are of limited capability.

[messsucher]

2 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Great, but the fact is that just because you can (potentially) see large numbers of aircraft doesn't mean there is any way to interact with them in a meaningful way, especially if the comms system and AI are of limited capability.

 

Well, they were probs just scripted to fly straight somewhere. I never lived long enough to see what they are doing ? But I can tell it looks truly impressive when you see that the first time, even with original IL-2 tech.

[Ribbon]

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

or not...

 

I must disagree here, pilot glasses have way much larger FoV than most VR headsets.

VR headsets FoV can be compared to diving mask which limits the FoV quite a lot.

Pilot googles are more closer to the face, more shallow frame which significantly increase FoV!

 

Now compare this to those googles above

 

 

Just to give you a point i am using a lot diving mask which i can also complare to goggles i use for snowboard and mtb downhill/enduro (which can be closely compared to pilots googles) and difference is huge. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by =VARP=Ribbon

[Dagwoodyt]

59 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

Well, they were probs just scripted to fly straight somewhere. I never lived long enough to see what they are doing ? But I can tell it looks truly impressive when you see that the first time, even with original IL-2 tech.

I remember the OG Rowan BoB where there were multitudes of AI bombers that I think were controlled as a single AI. Sure looked impressive. tho  ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

57 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Out of interest, Blitz and Tobruk users... please can you tell us of the best big battle you have flown in that sim? How many aircraft? Ground activity? Populated Airbases?

 

 

In 2020 Italian players of the ITAF virtual squadron organised an online campaign, several games we played one game a week. I participated in a few of them. I remember the reenactment of one of the bombings of London, that one of the 7th of September, 1940. Large formations of He 111s and all of those bloody Spitfires (online players) attacking them... and attacking me (the miracle is I managed to survive while escorting the formation all along the round trip, my 109 was a colander, and I landed with one aileron missing). I cannot remember right now how many AI bombers and how many online players. For an accurate account of the aircraft (AI and player), please do not hesitate, go to this thread and contact Cipson, Barone or Airone... they organised this campaign.

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

One last question... Is there an equivalent of IL-2 1946's Full Mission Builder? And is it user friendly like IL-2 1946's was? because IL-2 GB's takes a long time to learn, or so I hear

 

 

I've never been a mission maker, not even at the time of the classic IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946, but so they say: the mission builders in IL2-1946 and IL2CoD have a better reputation as "user friendly". The mission builder in IL2GB is, apparently, a bit more complexe.

 

 

[JV69badatflyski]

2 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

 

Out of interest, Blitz and Tobruk users... please can you tell us of the best big battle you have flown in that sim?
a) How many aircraft?
b) Ground activity?
c) Populated Airbases?

D1)One last question... Is there an equivalent of IL-2 1946's Full Mission Builder?
D2) And is it user friendly like IL-2 1946's was? because IL-2 GB's takes a long time to learn, or so I hear

 

 

I run Cod on a 2009 I7-920 OC (the pc was actually bought for Cod  ), 12gig pc1666 OC, gtx1060 6G
Offline :

A) +/- 100 ia's in the same area gives no issue (approx 50 He-111+ 12 bf109 + 12Bf110 + rest = Spitfires
B) Yes + Flak, a lot of Flak, i like Flak
C) Yes, fuel trucks/other  driving stuff + static objects on several airfields + Flak (did i already said i like Flak?)
D1) Yes
D2)  if you still remember how to handle the editor in 46, you won't have issues with Cod's editor.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

LoL, the topic I started is exactly evolving as I expected... or maybe not...

 

Please guys, leave it as it is, come on, let's stay on topic.

 

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Don't steal the realism out of my game, or I'll throw all my toys about and storm off for another game....

 

We don't care.

[messsucher]

2 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Don't steal the realism out of my game, or I'll throw all my toys about and storm off for another game....

 

We don't care.

 

Did not expect you to care. I just told what happen next.

[Algy-Lacey]

49 minutes ago, JV69badatflyski said:

I run Cod on a 2009 I7-920 OC (the pc was actually bought for Cod  ), 12gig pc1666 OC, gtx1060 6G
Offline :

A) +/- 100 ia's in the same area gives no issue (approx 50 He-111+ 12 bf109 + 12Bf110 + rest = Spitfires
B) Yes + Flak, a lot of Flak, i like Flak
C) Yes, fuel trucks/other  driving stuff + static objects on several airfields + Flak (did i already said i like Flak?)
D1) Yes
D2)  if you still remember how to handle the editor in 46, you won't have issues with Cod's editor.

 

Sounds fantastic!

That you can enjoy missions with that number of aircraft on your low end PC system speaks volumes about CLoD's processor usage. It makes me hopeful for VR.

 

I like flak too, I have been browsing the Blitz & Tobruk Forum's screenshots thread and was amazed at the amount of flak and the huge formations of aircraft. A more populated map is something sorely missing in a lot of IL-2 GB's missions, and the custom designed missions with more activity can bring a good PC to it's knees, so I hear.

 

I found the IL-2 1946 FMB quite easy to learn and made a few missions for my own fun. If CLoD's is similar then I will once again enjoy that aspect of combat flight simming.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

 

3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

you are simply repeating a fantasy. If there is no one who is going to volunteer the undoubtedly hundreds of hours needed to make those grand missions for you, you will either never see them or will need to invest the time yourself

 

That's cool. I think I might be able to (in the future) understand Blitz & Tobruk's Full Mission Builder and I'm looking forward to designing some missions again

 

3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Even then those missions might not be able to run on your hardware. This is just a fantasy that comes up routinely to pump up a sim that is in many respects still needing to play catch up.

 

Well, so far, 2 Blitz & Tobruk users have reported that they can run missions with aircraft numbers way in excess of what IL-2 GB's is capable of, as well as heavy flak and a populated map. I love IL-2 GB's, but perhaps this is an area where IL-2 GB's needs to play catch up?

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

Edited February 10, 2022 by Algy-Lacey
Is there any way to stop from merging all replies into one damned lump?!

[JV69badatflyski]

Thi

47 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

Sounds fantastic!

That you can enjoy missions with that number of aircraft on your low end PC system speaks volumes about CLoD's processor usage. It makes me hopeful for VR.

 

I like flak too, I have been browsing the Blitz & Tobruk Forum's screenshots thread and was amazed at the amount of flak and the huge formations of aircraft. A more populated map is something sorely missing in a lot of IL-2 GB's missions, and the custom designed missions with more activity can bring a good PC to it's knees, so I hear.

 

I found the IL-2 1946 FMB quite easy to learn and made a few missions for my own fun. If CLoD's is similar then I will once again enjoy that aspect of combat flight simming.

 

 

 

 

Cod was shitty in 2011, on the same Hw, it was a nightmare, with just one plane(109 freeflight france mission) on the map it was a slideshow.
It's because TFS made changes that it became playable and it's getting better and better since then.

PS: it's not a low end pc, it's a "classic vintage" 

[Dagwoodyt]

Blitz still lacks a QMB, much less an AQMB and doesn’t have a career mode or native DCG. It has stock missions that you can modify and re-save and “campaigns” that are single missions plus text. If you can create a massive BoB out of the FMB I‘ll be happy to try out your masterpiece whenever it’s available  ?

[Blitzen]

I'm told that testers will be notified by about the 25th of this month.?

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

11 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

 

Have you tried NOT using process lasso?

Yes. And DCS runs butter smooth by the way. I never dip below 45 fps on the Channel Map online on Growling Sidewinder's server. I also updated the bios and chipset drivers for windows 11 recently and il2 ran amazing until the latest hotfix.

[Crocogator]

I now have no reason to not get clod!!

[FuriousMeow]

Oh, Windows 11. Always skip a version. The only thing that went against that was Win 98SE to WinXP. The rest since though, every other has been worse. WinXP good, Vista bad, Win 7 good, Win 8 bad, Win 10 good, Win 11 - TBD but aside from scheduling for big.LITTLE type CPUs (Alder Lake) there doesn't look like anything worthwhile going from 10 to 11. Windows 10 scheduling has been good since a 16xx release, no real need for something like process lasso unless still running a FX CPU or forcing Win10 to work with Alder Lake CPUs better.

 

I've also seen a lot of reports of performance loss with the latest AGESA 1.2.0.5. I'm still on a previous beta for my x570 mobo and 5800x. Waiting to see what AGESA 1.2.0.6 brings.

Edited February 11, 2022 by FuriousMeow
cuz

[343KKT_Kintaro]

6 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I'm told that testers will be notified by about the 25th of this month.?

 

 

Thank you Blitzen. As a reminder, last day to apply is February the 15th.

 

 

[Eisenfaustus]

Buzzsaw Said something about 250 applications already. So interest is definitely there. 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

34 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Buzzsaw Said something about 250 applications already. So interest is definitely there. 

I got the email from Buzzsaw so I'm officially a tester ?.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

15 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Well, that pissed on my bonfire! Like I said, I really have no idea, so you're right that I am parroting others' views.

 

Some more hearsay... Just today I have been reliably informed by @343KKT_Kintaro that there is an external campaign generator by TheOden. Kintaro also informed me that he played an online mission with 80 AI German bombers over the City of London with online players in fighters, I'm don't think that IL-2 GB's could pull that off without massive slowdowns (time dilation).

 

Out of interest, Blitz and Tobruk users... please can you tell us of the best big battle you have flown in that sim? How many aircraft? Ground activity? Populated Airbases?

One last question... Is there an equivalent of IL-2 1946's Full Mission Builder? And is it user friendly like IL-2 1946's was? because IL-2 GB's takes a long time to learn, or so I hear

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

Here is a video of one of the missions we flew in the ITAF BoB campaign. Karaya has some more videos from other missions on his channel.

The TWC server also has massive bomber formations from time to time. Haven‘t seen them in their newest scenario yet. Just the smaller 4 to 8 bomber flights harassing some target (not BoB, 1941 with Tobruk content).

And adding to the above, the FMB is very good in CloD. Easy enough to use (not as easy as DCS though), but still requires some time investment. It offers s lot of possibilities though. 
 

I am sure you can find some single missions with large bomber formations. 
This is what I found just by going on the ATAG download section and looking at the first entries:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=206

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=203

Edited February 11, 2022 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[Dagwoodyt]

5 hours ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

Here is a video of one of the missions we flew in the ITAF BoB campaign. Karaya has some more videos from other missions on his channel.

The TWC server also has massive bomber formations from time to time. Haven‘t seen them in their newest scenario yet. Just the smaller 4 to 8 bomber flights harassing some target (not BoB, 1941 with Tobruk content).

And adding to the above, the FMB is very good in CloD. Easy enough to use (not as easy as DCS though), but still requires some time investment. It offers s lot of possibilities though. 
 

I am sure you can find some single missions with large bomber formations. 
This is what I found just by going on the ATAG download section and looking at the first entries:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=206

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/Downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=203

I would gladly download and fly those missions if they are available on the 1cgs forum for Blitz (?).  I have no desire to sign up to ATAG.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Dagwoodyt