P-51 B/C 3D model error.

[Ptolemy_Soter]

I've spotted two errors on our early Mustang model.

Pitot tube and IFF antenna (which are under left wing) are missing.

 

Here is a general photo of restored "Berlin Express"

 

I've no detailed photos for now but I'm looking for them.

[=FB=VikS]

Pito will be added a bit later (have been lost during production  ).

But not IFF antenna - as in case of airplane equipped with fuselage fuel tank (which we have) - there was no IFF equipment installed.

 

Thanks!

[--[---MAILMAN----]

The problem is that the P-51B-5-NA/P-51C-1-NT did not have the 85 gallon fuselage tank and should not have the tank in the game.  One, exactly one, P-51B-5-NA was taken from the North American assembly line and fitted with the 85 gallon fuselage tank.  When this tank was fitted and passed testing this P-51B-5-NA was re-designated P-51B-7-NA and its Dallas assembly line equivalent would be designated the P-51C-3-NT.  The remaining  550 P-51B-5-NA and however many P-51C-1-NT still on the assembly line were fitted with the 85 gallon fuselage tank and completed as P-51B-7-NA and P-51C-3-NT.

 

No doubt some that had reached the combat areas were later retrofitted with the fuselage tank.  I don't have any numbers on how many got retrofitted and re-designated as the B-7-NA/C-3-NT nor how many finished the war without the fuselage tank as the B-5-NA/C-1-NT.

 

If you want to be historically correct the P-51B-5-NA should not have the fuselage tank by default.  You can include it in the list of modifications like the Packard V-1650-7 and Malcolm Hood.   If you want it to be permanently installed and not one of the optional modifications you should change the designation from P-51B-5 to P-51B-7 or P-51C-3.

Edited June 18, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----
grammar/typo

[AndytotheD]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:45 PM, --[---MAILMAN---- said:

…

 

For those aircraft that were modified B-5 aircraft brought to B-7 standard, did NAA or the USAAF go out of their way to re-stamp the aircraft data plate to appropriately reflect that?

[=FB=VikS]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:45 AM, --[---MAILMAN---- said:

The problem is that the P-51B-5-NA/P-51C-1-NT did not have the 85 gallon fuselage tank and should not have the tank in the game. 

 

Thought so too, but it's not actually so, good reference about subject is P-51B Mustang book by Marshall/Ford (Osprey), here is en exception from it:

 

"Work continued to also install a production Firestone 85gal fuselage tank (per NA-104 production design) into 43-12304, for planned stability test flights to begin on September 9. The test series was planned to include flights with full fuselage tanks plus external long-range combat and ferry tanks to evaluate stability and control characteristics with full fuel loading. Additionally, Field Services was closely engaged to be able to draft the future release of Field Services Bulletin (FSB) 73-95, which would accompany all 85gal fuselage tank modifications for all P-51B-1, B-5, and C-1 Mustangs dispatched to the ETO prior to the tanks being installed during production."

 

and the page from NA service news:

 

 

PS: not sure if i have seen any frontline B-5 photos witout fuel tank installed - all of em have it, only very few of the first B-1`s, but majority of B-1 on photos - also have it installed.

 

On 6/20/2022 at 6:44 AM, AndytotheD said:

 

For those aircraft that were modified B-5 aircraft brought to B-7 standard, did NAA or the USAAF go out of their way to re-stamp the aircraft data plate to appropriately reflect that?

 

also from that book on subj:

 

"On or about November 20 NAA issued kits for combat tank pressurization for all P-51As, all P-51Bs through 43-6712, and all P-51Cs through 42-103378. All subsequent Mustangs departing Inglewood and Dallas had the pressurization modification installed as a production feature.
On the 23rd USAAF Air Service Command formally requested that NAA incorporate “quick change” designs in future fighter aircraft, beginning specifically in
the P-51F series, to reduce engine change labor and elapsed time significantly. The following day Brig Gen Branshaw directed that all Depots installing the 85gal fuselage kits also denote the existence of the kits by placing a white 6in. x 6in. cross beneath the data block on the left side of the fuselage.
The marking of such Mustangs was primarily to identify the so-modified P-51B/Cs as aircraft to be flown with care when fully fueled due to the aft movement of the CG limit. Some aircraft were identified by the designation P-51B-7 and C-7, but this practice was not consistent."

 

Lt.Col. James H. Howard airplane:

 

Spoiler

 

[--[---MAILMAN----]

Very interesting and informative, I had not seen that information before.  Thank you.

 

I also always wondered what that white cross was for in photos.

 

The main reason for my post was in these forums I have seen posted reasons used "such and such was a field modification or different production block" so therefore items should and were not  included that were later standard and retrofitted on an airplane.  Using that logic plenty of the original P-51B-5 did not have the tank initially and I thought it logical to have this 85 gallon tank as an option in the plane modification list just like V-1650-3 and V-1650-7 engines.  This could be predicated by the date the mission builder has chosen to build his mission.

 

Problem the 85 gallon poses specifically for the P-51B-5 (P-51D as well) in the game as I see it, even though you choose not to fill the 85 gallon tank when you first spawn and takeoff, invariably if you land and then repair, rearm, refuel  the game does not remember your original choice of not filling the fuselage tank and fills the 85 gallon tank (the gauges for the wings don't indicate when shut down so you don't know when to stop to prevent fuel to the 85 gallon tank) causing you to go waste time burning the fuel off so you can maneuver or end the flight and respawn which makes the refueling you just did a waste of time.

 

Since I can't cut and paste from the document or books I have typed out the passages below.  I am not trying to contradict anything you have said.

 

 

I have a copy of the Flight Manual Mustang P-51B and P-51C North American Aviation, INC.  Report No. NA-5740.  The nomenclature specifically states that the P-51B-5 has only two fuel tanks.  The diagrams of the fuel system do not have the 85 gallon fuselage tank.  This is what I based my original post on.

 

America's Hundred Thousand by Francis H. Dean

"Nov 11 '43 354thFG, 9th AF begins training at Colchester, England with P-51B aircraft after getting its first plan Nov. 11.

 

Dec 1 '43

P-51B of 354thFG are being "debugged".  They are not yet operating with the extra fuselage fuel tank or with external tanks."

 

Dec 1 '43

Twenty Four P-51B's of the 354thFG take their first fighter sweep over Belgium and France led by Lt. Col. Don Blakeslee of the 4thFG.  There is no enemy action and they do some ground strafing.

 

June '44

G Suits are issued to the 4th and 339th FG"

 

G Suits were issued to P-47 FG's at the same time

 

 

America's Hundred Thousand does not specify to which variant/block number of the P-51B that is being referenced.

 

 

Regarding a radio receiver for the P-51B & C aircraft.  (I have seen photos of P-51A (Cochran's plane) in Burma with the loop antenna on the top of the fuselage behind the cockpit).

 

Below is a quote directly out of Flight Manual Mustang P-51B and P-51C North American Aviation, INC.  Report No. NA-5740

 

"Report No. NA-5740 pages 97 & 98

Radio Set 438

On airplanes equipped with the SCR-522 radio command set, which is of the ultra-high-frequency type, a separate receiver must be used for the reception of beacon signals, weather broadcasts and airport communication.  This additional set is the Model 438 Detrola 6-tube receiver, designed to give good sensitivity and ample selectivity even though the normal high-voltage power supply has been eliminated.  All electrical power required is obtained directly from the airplane's 24-volt power system.  On airplanes equipped with the SCR-274-N radio command set, no additional receiver is required.  The hexagonal control knob is an on-off switch and also controls the volume.  The round knob is the frequency control; the frequency range is marked on the face of the receiver.  When the pilot desires to use the receiver he need only turn it on, as the output is fed into the regular radio output system.  The headphones are connected to the set through the DC495 connector jack."

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----
grammar & spelling

[Ptolemy_Soter]

@=FB=VikS is there any news about P-51 model correction ?

[=FB=VikS]

On 7/31/2022 at 2:01 PM, Ptolemy_Soter said:

@=FB=VikS is there any news about P-51 model correction ?

 

Yes - pito tube will be added a bit later (eta in the update after next one).