Flying Circus Future

[Dr1falcon500]

But no Zeppelins.

[Jackfraser24]

Despite my overzealous optimism I believe that Flying Circus Vol.V may never happen now. I rally want them to go somewhere else other than the Western Front, like Galicia, Northeastern Italy and Macedonia but people don't want to work with an outdated game plagued with limitations when they could be focusing on the new game. I believe that they will eventually go back to WWI combat flight simulation in time when developmental progress reaches full speed. If they do though they will likely start with the Western Front, but then go to other places once they have finished there. Hopefully they do a Galician map, a Venetian map and a Macedonian map eventually. 

[Jackfraser24]

Despite saying that I don't think that there will be another Flying Circus module I would really like to know whether there will be another one after Vol.IV or not. And I am sure that many others will want to know too. I don't think that work on Great Battles is due to stop until around 2026, and by then the Karelia and Bessarabia modules will be out so maybe there will be a Flying Circus Vol.V. Personally I would like to see one centering around Galicia, Italy or Macedonia, but that is just me. If you have any thoughts on this topic, please quote. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

I have thoughts..

 

We've already been told there's nothing planned yet.. over and over again.

You think this will have changed since last week ?

I suppose you could ask again next week.

 

The last few months have obviously been spent heavily on ww1 - why don't you enjoy all that work for a while ?

And you have heard of Korea right ?

[Jackfraser24]

18 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

I have thoughts..

 

We've already been told there's nothing planned yet.. over and over again.

You think this will have changed since last week ?

I suppose you could ask again next week.

 

The last few months have obviously been spent heavily on ww1 - why don't you enjoy all that work for a while ?

And you have heard of Korea right ?

Sorry. My enthusiasm got the best of me.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 11/24/2024 at 10:31 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

I have thoughts..

 

 

 

The last few months have obviously been spent heavily on ww1 - why don't you enjoy all that work for a while ?

And you have heard of Korea right ?

 

Hard to....already having buyer's remorse on vol 4. 

 

Edited November 25, 2024 by J5_Klugermann

[Enceladus828]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:31 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

We've already been told there's nothing planned yet.. over and over again.

Such a big shame that we'll probably never get the Channel Map, that was such a great map to fly over in RoF; the Felixstowe has to be one of my favourite planes. We obviously won't have London but it would get the Gotha raids and honestly that's epic. I wish we got a better explanation for why the Channel Map isn't being added other than there are no plans to. Ugra taking up other tasks, or would prefer to work in the new engine after FC4? Either of the two would be a much better PR response than what the devs have told us.

 

I feel bad for the VR guys who will never be able to go back to RoF to fly the Felixstowe 😟

[Zooropa_Fly]

I certainly agree that Felix was a truly magnificent beast, if not a little fragile..

 

 

 

And I do miss the 'Flying Pram' (S-16) - one could give better planes a fright in her.. for a couple of turns at least !

 

These things could be done as one off collector planes in the (distant) future just for the fun of it, but regards MP, they wouldn't work out of context since there's unfortunately no casual / good fun / have a laugh 'fast food' type of scene.

All that's left in the ww1 MP is the hard core, serious crowd.. and two servers that I think offer exactly the same experience.

 

That 'fast food' scene was maligned by many in RoF - but now it's gone (never existed in FC) - there's not enough players.. which is why I think there are no plans to do much else. Not to mention the fact that ww1 played second fiddle to ww2.. and now obviously Korea is the new baby.

 

We're probably lucky we've got as far as FC4.

Edited November 27, 2024 by Zooropa_Fly

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Ugra taking up other tasks, or would prefer to work in the new engine after FC4? Either of the two would be a much better PR response than what the devs have told us.

 

I feel that they've already done enough fingerpointing at Ugra not being interested. It would be rather rude for 1CGS to start telling us what they think that Ugra's exact reasons are, if they even know.

 

You could go ask Ugra...

[Jackfraser24]

On 11/26/2024 at 4:36 AM, J5_Klugermann said:

 

Hard to....already having buyer's remorse on vol 4. 

 

I don't. But I do think that they are either charging way to much for the product or that they are making too little planes in this pack. I think that it would be a better business move for them to make the total of planes for both Vol.III and Vol.IV to ten planes than to lower the pricing. Reason why is that a) they wouldn't feel compelled to lower the pricing and b) this move would make Flying Circus more than just a copy and paste revamp of Rise of Flight. And you know what they say, ten is a nice round number! Though with this pricing I'd rather see them do 12 aircraft in each volume because a) Flying Circus Vol.I, III and IV have no dedicated bombers so having 12 aircraft would not only make each volume more appealing but having bomber aircraft in each pack would too; b) it would make each Flying Circus module look more deserving of pricing; and c) having aircraft types in Flying Circus that Rise of Flight does not for the Western Front map would again, make it more than just a revamp. 

 

 

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

I suspect they just wanted to finish this project and be done with it.

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, J5_Klugermann said:

I suspect they just wanted to finish this project and be done with it.

I think you are right, all jokes aside. But I think that they really need to have 12 aircraft in each volume to justify their prices. But that is just my opinion. 

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

I suspect they just wanted to finish this project and be done with it.

 

You hit it right outta da park baby!

[Enceladus828]

Are there any flight sims which cover the Eastern and Italian Fronts of WW1 except for RoF for the former? I'm not keen on Battlefield 1, too arcade. Aileron rolls in a Sikorsky S-22 and Caproni Ca.3, lol!

[Jackfraser24]

6 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

You hit it right outta da park baby!

They probably are done. I would have liked to have seen Galicia completed, as with Venetian Italy and Macedonia (forgive me for I have said this on more than one occasion). But who knows, maybe they will redo Flying Circus in the new series where they will cover the Western Front, Galicia, and whatever they decide to do next.

5 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Are there any flight sims which cover the Eastern and Italian Fronts of WW1 except for RoF for the former? I'm not keen on Battlefield 1, too arcade. Aileron rolls in a Sikorsky S-22 and Caproni Ca.3, lol!

Probably not any that are relatively new (last 10-15 years). There’s a mod for Red Baron or so I’ve seen when I researched for your question, but other than that, I don’t think the answer is yes. I was hoping Flying Circus would go to Venetian Italy but I don’t think that is going to happen now unfortunately. Pity, because from what this forum has indicated there is the demand for it.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Pity, because from what this forum has indicated there is the demand for it

 

Forums are not the best indicator of what's in demand. 

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Forums are not the best indicator of what's in demand. 

 

Yes, we are a terrible indicator of market forces - there have been multiple polls over the years where the Spanish Civil War came out as the most popular theatre of operations (or second most popular)... but we are an indicator of fanaticism.

[Russkly]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Forums are not the best indicator of what's in demand. 

 

Out of interest, Luke, what means does 1CGS' marketing dept. use to assess market segment/sub-segment attractiveness?

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

SCW scenarios are available in the old IL2, in case anybody doesn't know, albeit this is the wrong thread.

 

Say there's been twenty people on here clamouring for Galicia - 20 x $70 = $1400.

How much development do you think that gets ?

 

FC4 maybe a couple of planes short of a picnic - but in this day and age I think they're doing very well to keep the module prices as steady as they are.

 

 

[ST_Catchov]

Italy would be fully sick! If forums are not the best indicator than that is clearly what 1C should go for!

 

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Forums are not the best indicator of what's in demand. 

 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

4 hours ago, Russkly said:

 

Out of interest, Luke, what means does 1CGS' marketing dept. use to assess market segment/sub-segment attractiveness?

 

Marketing department?   They have one?

[Russkly]

2 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Marketing department?   They have one?

 

Don't know about you chaps, but I've been playing this game in all its iterations since the original IL2 Sturmovik (2000?), and I don't recall any formal user consultation about development direction; and that applies to Oleg, Jason and all the combat flight sim grandees that have graced this wonderful product with their efforts

 

Which is why I ask: how does 1CGS assess potential demand?

• What market research led to the decision to do Korea for the great new engine?
• How did they decide that the Snipe and SS.IV (which had negligible involvement in the war and are thus largely irrelevant for SP careers) were better collector planes than, say, the BE.2c or another early war German 2-seater?

I'm interested is all, because I've chucked hundreds of Pounds/Euros at the whole Il2 thing (willingly and appreciatively, I freely admit), but if the forums aren't where they're getting their customer feedback and demand estimations from, then where are they getting them from?

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

9 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Say there's been twenty people on here clamouring for Galicia - 20 x $70 = $1400.

How much development do you think that gets ?

 

 

Maybe that will get the missing right horizontal stabilizer strut back on the D7F or perhaps missing FFB on 1 Gotha Aileron.

[Enceladus828]

8 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Say there's been twenty people on here clamouring for Galicia - 20 x $70 = $1400.

How much development do you think that gets ?

You could have this plane set

Russia:

Ilya Muromets 

S-16 

Lebed 2-seater

Morane Parasol, Caudron G4 or Farman

Nieuport 11 and 17, SPAD 7, Sopwith Triplane, and Sopwith Strutter also included

 

Central Powers:

Hansa-Brandenburg C.I (early/late) 

Hansa-Brandenburg D.I Starstrutter 

Oeffag D.II/D.III 

Fokker A.III

Albatros C.III/C.I - LVG C.II or Aviatik C.I

 

In general a lot of the Nieuports, Sopwiths, and SPADs were used on other fronts like in Macedonia and Palestine, and also used by the Italians, Russians and Romanians so it would be fun to fly one of these aircraft over another place other than France and Belgium for a change. Though I'd prefer Italy and Galicia first before covering other places.

 

1 hour ago, Russkly said:

What market research led to the decision to do Korea for the great new engine?

Maybe because it has a good lineup of well known planes like the F-51, F4U, B-29, F-86 and MiG 15 though I wish the devs had capped off the IL-2 GBs series with Sicily as that would also have had a good planeset with Italian birds, Beaufighter, mid war P-40, Spitfire and P-38, and probably a flyable B-25. 

 

1 hour ago, Russkly said:

How did they decide that the Snipe and SS.IV (which had negligible involvement in the war and are thus largely irrelevant for SP careers) were better collector planes than, say, the BE.2c or another early war German 2-seater?

On the WW2 side of things, why did they chose the Spitfire Mk.XIVe and Ta-152 over the Pe-3 and Bf-110F-2 or the Mosquito Mk. IV? The latter 3 saw much more action than the former 2 did. I'm not slamming the door that those 2 should have been added, it's just that the Pe-3 and Bf-110F-2 can be used on many maps in this game and fill in some gaps, and the early Mosquito would be an interesting plane to fly. In my opinion the  Spitifire Mk. XIVe and Ta-152 would be more appropriate for a Battle of Berlin installment.

[Russkly]

17 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

You could have this plane set

Russia:

Ilya Muromets 

S-16 

Lebed 2-seater

Morane Parasol, Caudron G4 or Farman

Nieuport 11 and 17, SPAD 7, Sopwith Triplane, and Sopwith Strutter also included

 

Central Powers:

Hansa-Brandenburg C.I (early/late) 

Hansa-Brandenburg D.I Starstrutter 

Oeffag D.II/D.III 

Fokker A.III

Albatros C.III/C.I - LVG C.II or Aviatik C.I

 

In general a lot of the Nieuports, Sopwiths, and SPADs were used on other fronts like in Macedonia and Palestine, and also used by the Italians, Russians and Romanians so it would be fun to fly one of these aircraft over another place other than France and Belgium for a change. Though I'd prefer Italy and Galicia first before covering other places.

 

Maybe because it has a good lineup of well known planes like the F-51, F4U, B-29, F-86 and MiG 15 though I wish the devs had capped off the IL-2 GBs series with Sicily as that would also have had a good planeset with Italian birds, Beaufighter, mid war P-40, Spitfire and P-38, and probably a flyable B-25. 

 

On the WW2 side of things, why did they chose the Spitfire Mk.XIVe and Ta-152 over the Pe-3 and Bf-110F-2 or the Mosquito Mk. IV? The latter 3 saw much more action than the former 2 did. I'm not slamming the door that those 2 should have been added, it's just that the Pe-3 and Bf-110F-2 can be used on many maps in this game and fill in some gaps, and the early Mosquito would be an interesting plane to fly. In my opinion the  Spitifire Mk. XIVe and Ta-152 would be more appropriate for a Battle of Berlin installment.

 

Good points all.

 

I'm not trying to dive once again into individual plane choices per se, more to understand how 1CGS makes their marketing strategy/tactics decisions based on @LukeFF's comment that "Forums are not the best indicator of what's in demand."

 

From a business perspective I'd be intrigued to know which market research tools they employ to decide what to develop, since I'm not aware of other means of user/potential user evaluation they've used besides reading posts in this forum.

 

By no means a criticism; purely intellectual curiosity.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Marketing department?   They have one?

 

Why do you think we don't have one? 1C is a large company with multiple software lines and is a regular attendee at trade shows (right now, yes, limited mostly to Russia). We don't make development decisions with a dartboard. 🙂

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Russkly said:

Which is why I ask: how does 1CGS assess potential demand?

• What market research led to the decision to do Korea for the great new engine?
• How did they decide that the Snipe and SS.IV (which had negligible involvement in the war and are thus largely irrelevant for SP careers) were better collector planes than, say, the BE.2c or another early war German 2-seater?

 

Fighters always sell best and have the bonus of being the easiest to model, especially in terms of 3D modeling. Been true ever since the first flight simulator. 

 

As for Korea, I can only point you to the dev brief videos we have posted recently (especially the first one with Albert / Loft) - and also the development of the Ar 234 and Me 262. You don't develop jet engine tech just for two WWII-era jets and then just shelve it indefinitely. 🙂

[Rodwonder]

Without the BE. 2c The Fokker E. III is kaput! 

[Trooper117]

6 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Marketing department?   They have one?

 

Motto of the Marketing Department... ''180!''

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Why do you think we don't have one? 1C is a large company with multiple software lines and is a regular attendee at trade shows (right now, yes, limited mostly to Russia). We don't make development decisions with a dartboard. 🙂

Question. Will they tell us whether or not there will be a Flying Circus Vol.V?

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:08 AM, Aapje said:

Ugra taking up other tasks,

Other tasks = Korea

17 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

because from what this forum has indicated there is the demand for it.

All 5 14 of you.
(I should have consulted the forum thread completely first, as part of my market research apparently). 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by JGr2/J5_Baeumer

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Question. Will they tell us whether or not there will be a Flying Circus Vol.V?

 

If there is one then you'll know when we announce it. 🙂

I'm not trying to be snarky with you guys, but what we have announced for Flying Circus is it for now, outside of potential revisions to flight models and stuff like that. The team is fully engaged on getting Korea and the remaining WWII GB content ready right now, and beyond that, Pacific has already been planned as the first title on the revised engine. That's the roadmap for now.

[Avimimus]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Fighters always sell best and have the bonus of being the easiest to model, especially in terms of 3D modeling. Been true ever since the first flight simulator. 

 

So, I hear what you are saying, and what you are saying is... B.E.12? 😄 😄 (I kid).

 

On a more serious note - I think there is also an attraction to whatever was 'most advanced'... which means 1918/1945 (if not 1919/1946) for many people. It is interesting to think that - if the war had ended a year earlier... aircraft like the Albatros D.III, Airco D.H.5, Spad VII, and Sopwith Pup would be the advanced fighters (with the S.E.5 being viewed as a postwar super-plane). If the war ended two years earlier the Fokker D.III and Fokker E.IV would be considered the hot-rods of the war! There is a certain arbitrariness to all of this.

 

9 hours ago, Russkly said:

• How did they decide that the Snipe and SS.IV (which had negligible involvement in the war and are thus largely irrelevant for SP careers) were better collector planes than, say, the BE.2c or another early war German 2-seater?

 

Honestly, we can't expect the developers to share market research... or the reasoning for their decisions. It is fascinating when they do share - but expecting any company to openly share trade secrets... is expecting something which goes beyond what is usually done.

 

What I will share, though, is that the SSW D.IV (or D.III) and the Sopwith Snipe were actually in development for Rise of Flight before it was called Rise of Flight... the other cancelled aircraft we know about were the:

- Airco D.H.9

- Rumpler C.IV

- Roland D.VI

 

Of course, the SSW D.IV and Sopwith Snipe were modelled by a third party... and the 3d models that were partly created for these five aircraft were probably rendered obsolete by the time Rise of Flight was released... but I thought it was interesting to mention in any case. Perhaps they are chosen partly because they are attractive aircraft.

 

P.S. As much as I want a couple of 1916 two-seaters (really needed for realistic campaigns)... I can also see the appeal of the Roland D.VI... it had handling closer to an Albatros, was easy to land, had performance as good as a Fokker D.VII, and is very very pretty... its main flaw was apparently it took several times the labour to build compared to the Fokker.

[Enceladus828]

18 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Question. Will they tell us whether or not there will be a Flying Circus Vol.V?

I would add, are we more likely to see the Battle of Britain in the new engine with a flyable Wellington and Do-17 and the Regia Aeronautica also included (there’d of course be the Spitfire, Hurricane, Bf-109 and the other Luftwaffe aircraft) than a WW1 installment in either the Korea or GBs engine? While it is fun to list off what we can get from a Channel, Italian or Eastern Front WW1 installment, if this is just a fantasy that there will be any WW1 content in the new engine — at least not for a long while — then it’s not worth our time. The devs read the forums, let alone Luke passes information to the devs, so they know that there is an interest for the Tarnopol/Galicia map and Italian Front map and aircraft.

[Jackfraser24]

34 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

If there is one then you'll know when we announce it. 🙂

I'm not trying to be snarky with you guys, but what we have announced for Flying Circus is it for now, outside of potential revisions to flight models and stuff like that. The team is fully engaged on getting Korea and the remaining WWII GB content ready right now, and beyond that, Pacific has already been planned as the first title on the revised engine. That's the roadmap for now.

No further questions about this. Thanks LukeFF.

Edited November 28, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Jackfraser24]

21 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

I would add, are we more likely to see the Battle of Britain in the new engine with a flyable Wellington and Do-17 and the Regia Aeronautica also included (there’d of course be the Spitfire, Hurricane, Bf-109 and the other Luftwaffe aircraft) than a WW1 installment in either the Korea or GBs engine? While it is fun to list off what we can get from a Channel, Italian or Eastern Front WW1 installment, if this is just a fantasy that there will be any WW1 content in the new engine — at least not for a long while — then it’s not worth our time. The devs read the forums, let alone Luke passes information to the devs, so they know that there is an interest for the Tarnopol/Galicia map and Italian Front map and aircraft.

I think that a Battle of Britain based module is due for another remake in the combat flight simulation genre. Reason why I think this is because the last time it was done was back in 2011 with the release of Cliffs of Dover. And even though I think that it is a good game and I respect the fact that people like it, I find that the graphics, 3D modelling and texturing made the game look outdated by the time of its release. So all the more reason (in my opinion) for them to make a modern representation of this battle in combat flight simulation. 

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

and is very very pretty.

 

I have to agree...

 

[ST_Catchov]

59 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

No further questions about this. Thanks LukeFF.

 

Hmm I see, a tactical withdrawal, a temporary retreat. Like a well-seasoned barrister coiled into strike mode, playful on the outside, but ready to attack like a woman scorned at the first sign of weakness. The pen is mightier than the sword, they say. WATCH OUT! DUCK! Verbal barrage incoming! You're a sly one Jack, I'll give you that.

 

Well, If I was you Jack I'd go on the attack right now see. What of Paris? Where did that come from? I don't recall it on a roadmap or anyone requesting it?  It was all about FM's or crates or maps. But BANG, there it is!

 

I conclude that roadmaps aren't worth the paper they're written on and cannot be trusted. Italy's not on any roadmap .... it's a sure bet to drop into FC without notice.

 

 

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I think that a Battle of Britain based module is due for another remake in the combat flight simulation genre. Reason why I think this is because the last time it was done was back in 2011 with the release of Cliffs of Dover. And even though I think that it is a good game and I respect the fact that people like it, I find that the graphics, 3D modelling and texturing made the game look outdated by the time of its release. So all the more reason (in my opinion) for them to make a modern representation of this battle in combat flight simulation. 

 

You are off topic, sir.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Why do you think we don't have one? 1C is a large company with multiple software lines and is a regular attendee at trade shows (right now, yes, limited mostly to Russia). We don't make development decisions with a dartboard. 🙂

Well, since you asked,  i guess because ive not really seen any marketing efforts😉.  

Edited November 28, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell