Flying Circus Future

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

What’s great these days, is that thanks to @Holtzauge’s calculations, we can have both relative and absolute accuracy, we just need a developer who sees a business opportunity and is willing to implement this data.

For that to happen it must get in right hands and right mindset.

[Jackfraser24]

Flying Circus Vol.V (Galicia) Plane List

 

Russians

• Nieuport 16
• Nieuport 21
• Nieuport 24
• Sikorsky Ilya Muromets
• Sikorsky S-16

Central Powers

• Albatros D.I
• Aviatik B.I
• Aviatik D.I
• Hansa Brandenburg C.I
• Hansa Brandenburg G.I

[Artfactial]

Pokes Flying Circus Vol IV
Do something.

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/18/2024 at 7:15 PM, Artfactial said:

Pokes Flying Circus Vol IV
Do something.

I bet it will be here by Wednesday.

[Artfactial]

That would be fantastic.:3

[Holtzauge]

This is why I'm curious to see how the FM's of the new releases will fit in with the old: Will they be more realistic and tuned to be correct in an absolute way? Or will they be made to fit in with the "old" FM's so that they fit in well in a relatively way to the already released planes? Because since some legacy in-game planes like the Albatros' are much better turners than you would expect, do you make a realistic DH2 FM or do you tune it to be the turner it should be in a relative way compared to the Albatros D.II? I guess we are about to find out very soon. 

 

 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

7 hours ago, Holtzauge said:

This is why I'm curious to see how the FM's of the new releases will fit in with the old: Will they be more realistic and tuned to be correct in an absolute way? Or will they be made to fit in with the "old" FM's so that they fit in well in a relatively way to the already released planes? Because since some legacy in-game planes like the Albatros' are much better turners than you would expect, do you make a realistic DH2 FM or do you tune it to be the turner it should be in a relative way compared to the Albatros D.II? I guess we are about to find out very soon. 

I'm curious about this as well.   They are certainly spending a lot of time on it. Which is encouraging.   But I'm under the impression that this will be the last adjustment for this series,  so I'm a bit nervous,  and hoping they get it right.  Tough job for sure.  

In the end, it's a game. Games need to be fun, but we all want fun and realistic.  Tough job..  

And of course,  whatever they do, some will be thrilled, and some will be unhappy.  Can't please everyone it seems.

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:56 AM, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

I'm curious about this as well.   They are certainly spending a lot of time on it. Which is encouraging.   But I'm under the impression that this will be the last adjustment for this series,  so I'm a bit nervous,  and hoping they get it right.  Tough job for sure.  

In the end, it's a game. Games need to be fun, but we all want fun and realistic.  Tough job..  

And of course,  whatever they do, some will be thrilled, and some will be unhappy.  Can't please everyone it seems.

True.

 

In the end the community has been incredibly supportive over the years and is a testament to this sim's longevity, in spite of what may be perceived as being difficult to please and overly critical of a niche product. Say what you will, we did stick with it.

 

The discourse has also changed from this (2010s):

• Community: "Something doesn't feel right, fix it now!"
• Devs: "What does? How do you know? Were you there?"

 

To this (2020s):

• Community: "This, this and this could be improved. Here's data to corroborate."
• Devs: "Interesting. Let's thoroughly analyse it and see what can be done."

 

The underlying issues are still essentially the same (the Albatros scouts turn too well), but we've moved past much of the guesswork. There are also other areas of the sim that have seen marked improvement already, the revised DM is the epitome of this. It will never be perfect, but after a dark time is now in a better place than it's ever been in RoF. Assetto Corsa doesn't need BeamNG.drive soft body physics to be enjoyable.

 

Don't quote me on that, I don't actually play racing sims.

 

Anyway, the bar is the final RoF update. It's pretty low. I'm sure they're aiming higher.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

For sure devs involved in fixing FC  get better compared to the past.Unfortunately FM revisions for the oldest FM's (Albatros series) need time which devs don't have.

Great that now we and devs have solid data what is wrong with oldest FMs, I hope someday they do find that time and do fix it. There is also money to make by making collectors planes which would fill the gaps and  WW1 planes are faster to bake compared to more complex WW2 planes. 

[Artfactial]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:19 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

I bet it will be here by Wednesday.

Sad rotary noises

[Jackfraser24]

7 hours ago, Artfactial said:

Sad rotary noises

I guess that they want the final product of Flying Circus to be sharpened and polished. My next prediction is that it will be here by Wednesday the 30th.

[Dr1falcon500]

15 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I guess that they want the final product of Flying Circus to be sharpened and polished. My next prediction is that it will be here by Wednesday the 30th.

Might arrive for Christmas.

[Jackfraser24]

59 minutes ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

Might arrive for Christmas.

That’s the hope!

[JG4_Moltke1871]

3 hours ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

Might arrive for Christmas.

Te next Russian Christmas is 2025 🥳

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I thought the war would be over by Christmas...

[Jackfraser24]

My best bet is that it will arrive on October 29th. A Tuesday is usually when they release new content (I think).

[Enceladus828]

16 hours ago, =IRFC=Gascan said:

I thought the war would be over by Christmas...

The war of the olden days was over by Christmas. Everyone realized that the centuries-old strategies and tactics of a major war were no longer suitable with the advancements in technology by 1914 and new strategies and tactics had to be come up with… fast.

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, Enceladus828 said:

The war of the olden days was over by Christmas. Everyone realized that the centuries-old strategies and tactics of a major war were no longer suitable with the advancements in technology by 1914 and new strategies and tactics had to be come up with… fast.

France was expected to fall within 7-8 weeks in WWI but the Belgians slowed the German invaders down which bought France enough time to prepare and bought France a new ally - Britain.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Artfactial]

Yeah, the expectation was the war to be over in two months max.
General Bernard's personal initiative at the moment of mobilization to halt most aircraft development and production and dismiss most of the engineers and factory workers in the industry (since there would be no new aircraft needed in this scenario) was a enormously shortsighted and self destructive move.

 

[PatrickAWlson]

7 hours ago, Artfactial said:

Yeah, the expectation was the war to be over in two months max.
General Bernard's personal initiative at the moment of mobilization to halt most aircraft development and production and dismiss most of the engineers and factory workers in the industry (since there would be no new aircraft needed in this scenario) was a enormously shortsighted and self destructive move.

 

 

Interesting.  Didn't know that happened.  I guess that helps to explain why British pilots were flying BE2s and DH2s into combat in April of 1917.  The Pup and Strutter were available but the better stuff didn't make it to the front until summer of 1917.  Once the pipeline opened up, the SE5as and Camels replaced everything else pretty quickly.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong about that.  Are you up on British procurement practices?

[Artfactial]

1 minute ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong about that.  Are you up on British procurement practices?

I know the Brits stifled their domestic production by only investing in a few state-owned development and construction projects, making them lag behind the most at the outbreak of war. 
I'm currently reading The Great War in the Air: Military Aviation from 1909 to 1921 by John H Horrow. It's quite detailed in the development and procurement of most major nations, if quite badly edited. Have only just arrived at the outbreak of war, so he hasn't covered yet how the Brits managed from what they stared with to the adoption of Sopwith's breakthroughs.:)

 

The book's on the Internet Archive if you're interested.:)
https://archive.org/details/greatwarinairmil0000morr/page/n5/mode/2up

[Jackfraser24]

Now that I think about it I think that a Galicia map is going to have to be made by third party developers. Would Ugra Media be up to the job with making the map and planes for it?

[Dr1falcon500]

5 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Now that I think about it I think that a Galicia map is going to have to be made by third party developers. Would Ugra Media be up to the job with making the map and planes for it?

You're very optimistic to think there'll be any new maps. I really can't see IC shelling out more roubles on FC.

[Jackfraser24]

4 minutes ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

You're very optimistic to think there'll be any new maps. I really can't see IC shelling out more roubles on FC.

I'll take this as a compliment about being optimistic.

 

I believe that there is a need for a Galicia map, I think because Flying Circus needs something more to offer to be as great as or better than it's indirect predecessor, Rise of Flight, and there needs to be something new brought to the WWI sector of the combat flight sim market. I know that there was not as much fighting in the air as there was on the Western Front, but I still think that Galicia would be worth doing, because it would offer players a completely different scenery and introduce them to new planes like the Nieuport 24, Sikorsky S-16 and the Ilya Muromets. I also think another reason to why Galicia should be covered is because I find that the memory of those who fought in the Imperial Russian Air Service in today's combat flight sim market is very underrepresented and under-commemorated. I understand if that is not a very good justification to do a Flying Circus Vol.V centering around Galicia, but all and all, I believe that a change of location and new planes would be enough to attract more than enough customers.

[Dr1falcon500]

6 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I'll take this as a compliment about being optimistic.

 

I believe that there is a need for a Galicia map, I think because Flying Circus needs something more to offer to be as great as or better than it's indirect predecessor, Rise of Flight, and there needs to be something new brought to the WWI sector of the combat flight sim market. I know that there was not as much fighting in the air as there was on the Western Front, but I still think that Galicia would be worth doing, because it would offer players a completely different scenery and introduce them to new planes like the Nieuport 24, Sikorsky S-16 and the Ilya Muromets. I also think another reason to why Galicia should be covered is because I find that the memory of those who fought in the Imperial Russian Air Service in today's combat flight sim market is very underrepresented and under-commemorated. I understand if that is not a very good justification to do a Flying Circus Vol.V centering around Galicia, but all and all, I believe that a change of location and new planes would be enough to attract more than enough customers.

Yeah it's worth doing with new appropriate planes, perhaps Morane N and L and early German 2 seater, planes that could also be used on the Western Front. I'd love to see that. The real question is does IC want to do it or anything else beyond Vol 4? The very strong message is that Vol 4 is the end of the line.

[Enceladus828]

33 minutes ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

You're very optimistic to think there'll be any new maps. I really can't see IC shelling out more roubles on FC.

I just want a message which declares that Ugra is taking up other tasks and won’t have time to add the Channel Map and planes. That would be a much better explanation for why no major work after FC4 is likely other than simply “We have no plans”.

 

17 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I believe that there is a need for a Galicia map, I think because Flying Circus needs something more to offer to be as great as or better than it's indirect predecessor, Rise of Flight, and there needs to be something new brought to the WWI sector of the combat flight sim market. I know that there was not as much fighting in the air as there was on the Western Front, but I still think that Galicia would be worth doing, because it would offer players a completely different scenery and introduce them to new planes like the Nieuport 24, Sikorsky S-16 and the Ilya Muromets

100% agree on this. Aerial warfare over other fronts was much less than the Western Front but were still significant. An Italian map would be more worth doing because that can cover the entire Front from 1915-18 from Venice to Gorizia whereas the Galicia/Tarnopol map would only represent a slice of the Eastern Front as a whole. What we really need is more early war two-seaters and a late war German two-seater.

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

Yeah it's worth doing with new appropriate planes, perhaps Morane N and L and early German 2 seater, planes that could also be used on the Western Front. I'd love to see that. The real question is does IC want to do it or anything else beyond Vol 4? The very strong message is that Vol 4 is the end of the line.

 

There is a clear message that there are no current plans. I'm not sure if I'd call that very strong. Also, given how they are doing Odessa and expanding Karelia to potentially have new aircraft as well, they are showing a strong willingness to partner with third parties.

 

+1 on your plane list!

[Jackfraser24]

6 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

There is a clear message that there are no current plans. I'm not sure if I'd call that very strong. Also, given how they are doing Odessa and expanding Karelia to potentially have new aircraft as well, they are showing a strong willingness to partner with third parties.

 

+1 on your plane list!

I was thinking this as well. The team at 1CGS have proved that they are willing to work together with other third party teams despite moving their own crew onto Korea. This is good news. I really want to see a Galicia map and a Northeastern Italian map for Flying Circus. No, the intensity of aerial warfare in those areas were probably nowhere as intense as it was on the Western Front but air to air combat was prevalent on those fronts. I think that Galicia should be done first because, assuming that they have covered the area before, the team at 1CGS would already be familiar with the region and have the resources available to lend to those wanting to do it. Then the Channel map for the same reason. Northeastern Italy should come later on because it is going to take longer to research and then build the map, planes and the mission for pilot career mode. But I don't think that this map would be too unfamiliar to build. They have experience with modeling mountainous terrain, which they could teach third party developers how to do. I think Italy would give Flying Circus something different to Rise of Flight and send a message to the combat flight sim community saying that Flying Circus is more than just a revamped Rise of Flight series.

Edited October 26, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Zooropa_Fly]

Accept that there's unlikely to be anything else.

And someone close this thread - it's getting painful.

[BMA_Hellbender]

5 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Accept that there's unlikely to be anything else.

And someone close this thread - it's getting painful.

 

Just to inject a final dose of adrenaline into the patient, I’m wondering how completely unrealistic it would be to have some additional variants of planes and engines we already have. Instances where Yugra Media only needs to proverbially copy/paste some assets and the devs themselves can tweak some numbers to come up with a new FM.

 

Say, the 200hp Albatros D.Va and Fokker D.VII, taken straight from the Halberstadt CL.II 200hp, and the 110hp Le Rhône Camel taken straight from the Nieuport 17. There’s probably one or two more you can think of.

Edited October 26, 2024 by =IRFC=Hellbent

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

 

Just to inject a final dose of adrenaline into the patient, I’m wondering how completely unrealistic it would be to have some additional variants of planes and engines we already have. Instances where Yugra Media only needs to proverbially copy/paste some assets and the devs themselves can tweak some numbers to come up with a new FM.

 

Say, the 200hp Albatros D.Va and Fokker D.VII, taken straight from the Halberstadt CL.II 200hp, and the 110hp Le Rhône Camel taken straight from the Nieuport 17. There’s probably one or two more you can think of.

It’s probably more realistic than an East front or Italy map, but still not likely.  I think they have one WW2 GB module left and then they are moving on

[JG4_Moltke1871]

18 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

 

Just to inject a final dose of adrenaline into the patient, I’m wondering how completely unrealistic it would be to have some additional variants of planes and engines we already have. Instances where Yugra Media only needs to proverbially copy/paste some assets and the devs themselves can tweak some numbers to come up with a new FM.

 

Say, the 200hp Albatros D.Va and Fokker D.VII, taken straight from the Halberstadt CL.II 200hp, and the 110hp Le Rhône Camel taken straight from the Nieuport 17. There’s probably one or two more you can think of.

 

In the game's internal description, some weaker engine variants of the Airco DH. 4 are mentioned. These could also make the game more variable
 

 

„Due to shortages of Rolls Royce engines the production airplanes were also fitted with BHP (230hp), RAF3A (200hp), the Siddeley Puma (230hp) and the 260hp Fiat, yet none of the alternative powered DH.4's could match the Rolls Royce powered machines“

[=IRFC=Gascan]

Galicia and Italy might be some interesting areas for future expansions, and I'll never say "no" to any WW1 development (I'd buy an Italian map before you could say "Caproni"). I just think there is so much more that can be done for the Western Front area that can integrate with what already exists and would really help with the main theater of aerial conflict. Not just new planes (early two-seaters and a late German recon bird), or re-engined planes (Fokker D.VII 200hp, Albatros 200hp, Camel with 110hp), but also some improved features. Improvements to the photo recon and artillery spotting missions in the campaign, especially if they can be implemented in MP, would really help. Some new mission editor features would be nice, like the ability to turn off ambient artillery on WW1 maps and retexture portions of the map to add more No Mans Land craters. There have been a few late-war MP campaigns where the front lines have moved beyond the area depicted on the current map, and the person building the mission had to build an artificial front line to match the historical position. Laying down new craters and removing ambient artillery from an area that no longer has an active battle would be useful. I'd also love the ability to lay down gas attacks, both as artillery and from fixed cylinders. It would be kinda like putting smoke for a burning town, but it would look different, and could really add tot he WW1 flavor of the game when you're flying over a major attack and can see all the artillery and gas.

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, =IRFC=Gascan said:

Galicia and Italy might be some interesting areas for future expansions, and I'll never say "no" to any WW1 development (I'd buy an Italian map before you could say "Caproni"). I just think there is so much more that can be done for the Western Front area that can integrate with what already exists and would really help with the main theater of aerial conflict. Not just new planes (early two-seaters and a late German recon bird), or re-engined planes (Fokker D.VII 200hp, Albatros 200hp, Camel with 110hp), but also some improved features. Improvements to the photo recon and artillery spotting missions in the campaign, especially if they can be implemented in MP, would really help. Some new mission editor features would be nice, like the ability to turn off ambient artillery on WW1 maps and retexture portions of the map to add more No Mans Land craters. There have been a few late-war MP campaigns where the front lines have moved beyond the area depicted on the current map, and the person building the mission had to build an artificial front line to match the historical position. Laying down new craters and removing ambient artillery from an area that no longer has an active battle would be useful. I'd also love the ability to lay down gas attacks, both as artillery and from fixed cylinders. It would be kinda like putting smoke for a burning town, but it would look different, and could really add tot he WW1 flavor of the game when you're flying over a major attack and can see all the artillery and gas.

You’re not seriously expecting any of this, are you?

[Dr1falcon500]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

You’re not seriously expecting any of this, are you?

No but IC could have an opportunity to make Flying Circus the best WW1 simulator if they chose do more beyond Vol 4. Indications are they will do nothing.

[BraveSirRobin]

20 minutes ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

No but IC could have an opportunity to make Flying Circus the best WW1 simulator if they chose do more beyond Vol 4. Indications are they will do nothing.

It’s the best right now.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I think you'd have to contextualise 'best'.

• FC has the highest graphics resolution, and probably the best FM's and DM's.
• WOFF has the best offline experience.
• RoF had the best participation, the best MP, and the most fun.

The third point is pertinent here.

Yesterday (Saturday) I checked the servers early afternoon and there was one (1) person flying ww1.

Even after RoF was 'over the hill' there'd be at least 30 flying at that time - and on more than one server.

 

I know more people play offline, but you'd expect the SP / MP ratio to remain fairly constant.

So I don't think it's unfeasible to assume that if MP numbers (and forum participation) are down - SP numbers probably are too.

Thus I'm not sure how anyone realistically thinks there's going to be any significant new content.

Talk of 'needs' and 'opportunities' are just personal desires.

At the end of the day, the company needs to make money.

 

And I believe that part of the strategy of bringing ww1 into the GB engine would be to sell more ww2 modules - worked with me.

 

I mentioned 'fun' which of course is subjective, and there's obviously players who are having fun in FC.

But regards MP, there's only one experience available.

There's no variety, and no easy way for new players to get into it.

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

29 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Yesterday (Saturday) I checked the servers early afternoon and there was one (1) person flying ww1.

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

That's evening, not early afternoon.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

That's evening, not early afternoon.

Where?