Pilots need to be able to not die when parachuting into water and be able to exit their aircraft after landing in BoN

January 4, 2022

Happy New Year to the devs and all and looking forward to another great year of flight simming.

I understand that the IL-2 Great Battles game engine is based on a WW1 game engine (Rise of Flight) and in WW1 aircraft things such as Drop Tanks, radios, oxygen masks, parachutes, but more importantly, retractable landing gear, flaps, hydraulics, etc, etc. weren't there or were very primitive, and therefore the addition of things like those mentioned above had to be postponed till a later date during development of BoS so that the basic features of a WW2 plane could be included; also in RoF, there were no parachutes and pilots couldn't exit their aircraft like in IL-2 1946, CFS3, and in Tank Crew.

TL;DR, I get it okay and I am sorry for overestimating the ability of the devs' to build add all the features of a WW2 aircraft which wasn't in or was very primitive in WW1 aircraft.

Now that current installment in development -- BoN-- takes us to another area with a considerable amount of water (the English Channel) and there will be lots of Cross channel flying during BoN, it is utmost important that the devs fix the 'parachute bug' where the pilot sinks like a stone and instantly dies when touching water and for pilots to exit their aircraft after landing... particularly after ditching into the English Channel so that they don't drown... or just make it so that if you're in that situation you don't die.

You could argue that if you're in any of those two situations that you can just end your mission and you survive at the end, but what if there's a new user who isn't aware of this bug or that you can't exit your aircraft on the ground like in TC and as a result their Pilot Career (which let's just say they've almost completed) is now over.

Jason, Devs, can we please fix the parachute bug during BoN development??

Thank you

Enceladus

January 4, 2022

Is it a bug? The majority of pilots who bailed over water did die.

January 5, 2022

25 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Is it a bug? The majority of pilots who bailed over water did die.

Many did have their lives saved by the floatation equipment kept in their cockpits, for example the Mosquito we are getting had space to store a life raft in case of ditching. As both the USAAF and RAF fighter pilot appear to be wearing inflatable life jackets in the cockpit I feel like it would be fair if our pilots at least had a chance of living

January 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Happy New Year to the devs and all and looking forward to another great year of flight simming.

I understand that the IL-2 Great Battles game engine is based on a WW1 game engine (Rise of Flight) and in WW1 aircraft things such as Drop Tanks, radios, oxygen masks, parachutes, but more importantly, retractable landing gear, flaps, hydraulics, etc, etc. weren't there or were very primitive, and therefore the addition of things like those mentioned above had to be postponed till a later date during development of BoS so that the basic features of a WW2 plane could be included; also in RoF, there were no parachutes and pilots couldn't exit their aircraft like in IL-2 1946, CFS3, and in Tank Crew.

TL;DR, I get it okay and I am sorry for overestimating the ability of the devs' to build add all the features of a WW2 aircraft which wasn't in or was very primitive in WW1 aircraft.

Now that current installment in development -- BoN-- takes us to another area with a considerable amount of water (the English Channel) and there will be lots of Cross channel flying during BoN, it is utmost important that the devs fix the 'parachute bug' where the pilot sinks like a stone and instantly dies when touching water and for pilots to exit their aircraft after landing... particularly after ditching into the English Channel so that they don't drown... or just make it so that if you're in that situation you don't die.

You could argue that if you're in any of those two situations that you can just end your mission and you survive at the end, but what if there's a new user who isn't aware of this bug or that you can't exit your aircraft on the ground like in TC and as a result their Pilot Career (which let's just say they've almost completed) is now over.

Jason, Devs, can we please fix the parachute bug during BoN development??

Thank you

Enceladus

I can't recall - have you brought this up before?

January 5, 2022

50 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Is it a bug? The majority of pilots who bailed over water did die.

I'm not sure if it's entirely true that the majority of aircrew who managed to successfully bail out of aircraft over water still died. (If there are statistics to prove this then I apologise)

Certainly the RAF and USAAF aircrew operating over the Channel and North Sea seem to have held the service provided by RAF's Air Sea Rescue Launches and their crews in high regard, not to mention all the other arrangements made to facilitate aircrew survival including liferaft dropping by war weary Defiants, P-47s and others, not to mention direct rescues being made by Supermarine Walruses etc.

As I have said before elsewhere, my great-uncle was a navigator on Mitchells and he and his crew were forced to ditch in the Channel in 1943 after getting shot up by Fw 190s. Once they were out of the aircraft and realised that the aircraft directly overhead them were friendly Spitfires, protecting them and reporting their position to HQ they were confident a high speed motor launch would come and rescue them soon. They were not disappointed, and ended up back ashore in England only about an hour or so after they had been shot down.

I will readily admit that one example doesn't conclusively prove anything, other than maybe showing that saying something along the lines of "Well, they probably would have died anyway" could be considered a little unfair.

(That said, I wouldn't consider the current situation as a "bug" per se, more as something that I'd welcome being addressed) ?

January 5, 2022

Hi all Gents.

As I posted in another thread, what we would need is that the developers build the Rettungsboje:

https://historia.nationalgeographic.com.es/a/rettungsboje-boyas-salvadoras-alemanas-segunda-guerra-mundial_17038/amp

Saludos.

15(Span.)/JG51 Costa

January 5, 2022

I really don't see the use in being able to exit your aircraft after landing in a flight sim, it sounds to me like it might be a somewhat nice feature but in essence a total gimmick and completely pointless.

Plus I can imagine it would require a huge amount of work if this would entail control of the pilot after exiting the aircraft, exacerbated by the ability to switch to 3rd person where suddenly you throw movement animations into the mix.

But hey, I have an open mind so if I'm looking at this the wrong way feel free to enlighten me.

January 5, 2022

37 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

I really don't see the use in being able to exit your aircraft after landing in a flight sim, it sounds to me like it might be a somewhat nice feature but in essence a total gimmick and completely pointless.

It might save your a**, when you landed and an enemy has the opinion it would be a nice idea to destroy your aircraft, now that it is not moving anymore.

To the 'landing' on water or bailing out over water, I want to remember you guys, that so far your pilot also dies, if he goes down in a small river or lake. For going down over the sea, it might be an idea to 'roll a dice', if you get rescued, like it is now in career mode, when you go down behind enemy lines, but close to them.

January 5, 2022

1 hour ago, Soilworker said:

I really don't see the use in being able to exit your aircraft after landing in a flight sim, it sounds to me like it might be a somewhat nice feature but in essence a total gimmick and completely pointless.

Plus I can imagine it would require a huge amount of work if this would entail control of the pilot after exiting the aircraft, exacerbated by the ability to switch to 3rd person where suddenly you throw movement animations into the mix.

But hey, I have an open mind so if I'm looking at this the wrong way feel free to enlighten me.

I don't think op meant getting out of the plane and going for a stroll (which ofc is out of scope for a flight sim in any case)

What he would like to see it's a "bail out while on the ground" (exiting the plane then) with the pilot running some meters from the plane itself then thowing himself at the ground.

If you have TC you can already see that devs have implemented a "bail out of the tank" function for it (and which was already present in some forms for AI ground units). It would be nice if it's made available to planes too as to avoid getting pilot killed by a strafing enemy while sitting in a just landed plane (especially if under an emergency landing)

January 5, 2022

28 minutes ago, Alexmarine said:

I don't think op meant getting out of the plane and going for a stroll (which ofc is out of scope for a flight sim in any case)

What he would like to see it's a "bail out while on the ground" (exiting the plane then) with the pilot running some meters from the plane itself then thowing himself at the ground.

If you have TC you can already see that devs have implemented a "bail out of the tank" function for it (and which was already present in some forms for AI ground units). It would be nice if it's made available to planes too as to avoid getting pilot killed by a strafing enemy while sitting in a just landed plane (especially if under an emergency landing)

Thinking like a QA person here: I wonder what would happen if you bailed out of a tank in a waist deep stream?

January 5, 2022

Returning to the subject of parachuting over the water, it would be good to use a calculation such as +- km from shore, allied ship or Rettungsboje +- percent chance of being saved, as is done in some cooperatives (frontlines).

Saludos.

15(Span.)/JG51 Costa

January 5, 2022

24 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Thinking like a QA person here: I wonder what would happen if you bailed out of a tank in a waist deep stream?

I don't think there is any body of water in the entire sim that a tank can cross. Tanks immediately sink a few feet past the shoreline, like falling off a cliff. The crew shares the same fate as pilots that ditch in any body of water.

Similar problem exists with sinking a ship tied to the pier. It totally disappears.

All bodies of water in the sim are infinitely deep.

Edited January 5, 2022 by BlitzPig_EL

January 5, 2022

8 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

All bodies of water in the sim are infinitely deep.

All hail the fountains of wisdom!

January 5, 2022

1 hour ago, Alexmarine said:

I don't think op meant getting out of the plane and going for a stroll (which ofc is out of scope for a flight sim in any case)

What he would like to see it's a "bail out while on the ground" (exiting the plane then) with the pilot running some meters from the plane itself then thowing himself at the ground.

If you have TC you can already see that devs have implemented a "bail out of the tank" function for it (and which was already present in some forms for AI ground units). It would be nice if it's made available to planes too as to avoid getting pilot killed by a strafing enemy while sitting in a just landed plane (especially if under an emergency landing)

Yes, I didn't read it as a GTA-like feature either. Could be a nice animation, and if my memory serves me right the original IL-2 game had it.

January 5, 2022

46 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

All bodies of water in the sim are infinitely deep.

That is not quite true (i think, taking a stance on possibly dodgy ground!) . I have seen a video on youtube where some tanks were able to wade across a stream, I think they were Ferdinand? (I will try and find it), may also have been an older version where issues has been fixed.

The other option would be what 46' did, when you parachuted onto water you reappeared sitting in your dingy (nicely waiting to be strafed by the plane that shot you down! )

EDIT I have just remembered that there is a tiny stretch on the Rhineland map in Veghel, down by the southern factory that you can cross. I had to block it off on one of my missions to stop players out flanking my AI.

here is a video i have found - they may be only Ai and not player tanks?...

Edited January 5, 2022 by DD_Friar

January 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

I don't think op meant getting out of the plane and going for a stroll (which ofc is out of scope for a flight sim in any case)

What he would like to see it's a "bail out while on the ground" (exiting the plane then) with the pilot running some meters from the plane itself then thowing himself at the ground.

If you have TC you can already see that devs have implemented a "bail out of the tank" function for it (and which was already present in some forms for AI ground units). It would be nice if it's made available to planes too as to avoid getting pilot killed by a strafing enemy while sitting in a just landed plane (especially if under an emergency landing)

Ah okay, that makes more sense to me. Yes I was thinking about other threads where people were wanting to get out of the plane and walk around after a mission.

In my defence the title does say "be able to exit their aircraft after landing", not crashing, crash-landing or ditching (context notwithstanding).

(No I don't have Tank Crew, tanks just don't do it for me.)

January 5, 2022

4 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

In my defence the title does say "be able to exit their aircraft after landing", not crashing, crash-landing or ditching (context notwithstanding).

Unfortunately the enemy do not care much if you made a perfect landing or just crashed half the plane through a field, the need to jump out and get some distance between your pilot and a shower of bullets is the same

January 5, 2022

2 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Costa said:

Returning to the subject of parachuting over the water, it would be good to use a calculation such as +- km from shore, allied ship or Rettungsboje +- percent chance of being saved, as is done in some cooperatives (frontlines).

Yeah in the Pilot Career and possibly in other SP content the devs could implement that if you parachute or crash land very close to shore, friendly ship, or a Rettungsboje then you have a 95% of being rescued and the further you are the chances decrease.

This could also be applied to if you parachute or crash land very close the frontline where you could easily walk into friendly territory and be returned to your unit then depending on if artillery guns, enemy airfield, or tanks were around, you have an X percent chance of walking back into friendly territory.

January 5, 2022

3 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

That is not quite true (i think, taking a stance on possibly dodgy ground!) . I have seen a video on youtube where some tanks were able to wade across a stream, I think they were Ferdinand? (I will try and find it), may also have been an older version where issues has been fixed.

The other option would be what 46' did, when you parachuted onto water you reappeared sitting in your dingy (nicely waiting to be strafed by the plane that shot you down! )

EDIT I have just remembered that there is a tiny stretch on the Rhineland map in Veghel, down by the southern factory that you can cross. I had to block it off on one of my missions to stop players out flanking my AI.

here is a video i have found - they may be only Ai and not player tanks?...

Learn something new every day. Thanks.

January 5, 2022

@BlitzPig_EL Sir, I have just re-read my post to you and I wanted to clarify that when I said "taking a stance on dodgy ground", I meant me, not your statement. I was thinking that I could be wrong at the time without finding the video.

Did not want to cause offence.

Salute

Friar

January 5, 2022

None taken sir! With the scope of the sim now, no one could possibly know every nuance of the maps, and how all the various vehicles interact with them. I'm always happy to learn new things, and keep an open mind.

S!

January 5, 2022

If the concern truly is a plane bearing down on you to strafe your craft into history, it'd be much faster to just end flight rather than wait for them to open canopy, undo straps, and get out of the aircraft. I'm sure they could jump out too, bypassing the wing step down, then of course they have sprained or broken ankles and are now lying helplessly next to their aircraft.

End flight is much faster. This is just some cosmetic gimmick because the old Il-2 series did it.

January 5, 2022

6 hours ago, Enceladus said:

if you parachute or crash land very close the frontline where you could easily walk into friendly territory

Hmmm... as long as the enemy, who might be sitting somewhere at the frontline, noticing an enemy aircraft going down, has nothing against your return to your side. If he had something against you walking back to your side, it might be quite a challenging mission to return.

6 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Yeah in the Pilot Career and possibly in other SP content the devs could implement that if you parachute or crash land very close to shore, friendly ship, or a Rettungsboje then you have a 95% of being rescued and the further you are the chances decrease.

One thing, I would like to mention is, you don't survive longer than a few minutes in cold water, like the channel. This should be taken into account.

January 5, 2022

To be quite honest, my opinion is that the likelihood of enemy aircraft strafing a downed aircraft is (or at least ought to be) a minor concern in sim. It's not a murder simulator, after all.

My interest is in seeing a change to allow aircrew to clamber out of a downed aircraft before it either burns or sinks, or to potentially survive parachuting into a body of water. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

10 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

One thing, I would like to mention is, you don't survive longer than a few minutes in cold water, like the channel. This should be taken into account.

That depends on an awful lot of factors, not least seasonal variation.

While going into the waters of the Channel in the winter would definitely be pretty bad news, in the summer the temperature of the Channel is survivable for pretty long periods, if not necessarily very comfortable.

If it wasn't possible to survive for at least a while in the Channel during the summer before dying of exposure then seaside holidays on the south coast of England would be a much grimmer proposition than is actually the case.

FWIW My dad used to voluntarily take a swim in the Channel every day from about June to October at one point. The latest he swam one year was early November, by which time it was, according to him, "beginning to get a bit chilly", but it was at least survivable for a while in any case, even for a skinny old(ish) chap like my dad. ?

January 5, 2022

1 hour ago, FuriousMeow said:

If the concern truly is a plane bearing down on you to strafe your craft into history, it'd be much faster to just end flight rather than wait for them to open canopy, undo straps, and get out of the aircraft. I'm sure they could jump out too, bypassing the wing step down, then of course they have sprained or broken ankles and are now lying helplessly next to their aircraft.

End flight is much faster. This is just some cosmetic gimmick because the old Il-2 series did it.

Yeah, that'd be all fine and dandy if the friggin Ecs key binding function actually worked. It's not so easy in VR when you have to fumble and find your keyboard first, than find the right key in the blind.

January 6, 2022

17 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Yeah, that'd be all fine and dandy if the friggin Ecs key binding function actually worked. It's not so easy in VR when you have to fumble and find your keyboard first, than find the right key in the blind.

The get out of plane animation isn't going to save you in that case either, you'll still be strafed. Maybe advocate for the keybinding to work rather than add loads of work for the same result of you getting strafed.

But, the esc key is the easiest key to find on the keyboard. Literally upper left all by itself.

January 6, 2022

If you built a pit/chair for VR there's no real room for a keyboard, where in the pit does one put something the size of a keyboard? And you need to stay in VR to see the menu and run the mouse, so it's always catch 22. I wish they'd just remove the damn key bind and be honest about it, it's fixing has been requested for years. Probably a fifteen minute fix.

January 6, 2022

17 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

Unfortunately the enemy do not care much if you made a perfect landing or just crashed half the plane through a field, the need to jump out and get some distance between your pilot and a shower of bullets is the same

Well again I was thinking about a normal landing, ie at home base, not a forced landing.

January 6, 2022

To be brief and try to avoid the bail discussion which while interesting is of less importance-

I agree with OP that it is needless and frustrating that any body of water will result in instant death no matter where, or what size.

There is already code support for a chance of being captured when parachuting behind the front lines, extending that courtesy to a chance of surviving when landing in a river doesn't seem too far-fetched, and I find it hard to understand the argument that it's somehow less realistic than instant death.

January 6, 2022

1 hour ago, Soilworker said:

Well again I was thinking about a normal landing, ie at home base, not a forced landing.

Again, doesn't make a difference unless you have set up a ludicrous amount of AA guns around the field (and even in that case a bloodthirsty player will find a way to kill you just before getting killed himself.

I personally got PK while on my own airfield (even before I actually took off) and PK other players as they sat in their cockpits on their own airfields. Jumping out of the plane would still be faster and getting away from harm than waiting for ending the sortie (especially when servers have a 10/15s delay before you are actually out

Edited January 6, 2022 by Alexmarine

January 6, 2022

33 minutes ago, Alexmarine said:

Again, doesn't make a difference unless you have set up a ludicrous amount of AA guns around the field (and even in that case a bloodthirsty player will find a way to kill you just before getting killed himself.

I personally got PK while on my own airfield (even before I actually took off) and PK other players as they sat in their cockpits on their own airfields. Jumping out of the plane would still be faster and getting away from harm than waiting for ending the sortie (especially when servers have a 10/15s delay before you are actually out

Oh see now you're thinking like an MP, I only play SP and am thinking in a more realistic/historic sense, as in after your sortie you return to base and get out of your plane.

Stupid, unrealistic BS like what you're describing (ie: players camping around an airfield just to bump up their kill count and such) is a major reason why MP doesn't interest me (for any game).

I know the AI still leaves a lot to be desired but I definitely prefer to a few prats sitting at their PCs, ruining it for everyone to sate their egos in lieu of authentic war pilot behaviour.

(No offence meant to MPs [well, except the aforementioned prats], I get why it's fun for you and I enjoy watching it on YouTube occasionally but it's not for me.)

January 6, 2022

2 hours ago, Soilworker said:

Oh see now you're thinking like an MP, I only play SP and am thinking in a more realistic/historic sense, as in after your sortie you return to base and get out of your plane.

Stupid, unrealistic BS like what you're describing (ie: players camping around an airfield just to bump up their kill count and such) is a major reason why MP doesn't interest me (for any game).

I know the AI still leaves a lot to be desired but I definitely prefer to a few prats sitting at their PCs, ruining it for everyone to sate their egos in lieu of authentic war pilot behaviour.

(No offence meant to MPs [well, except the aforementioned prats], I get why it's fun for you and I enjoy watching it on YouTube occasionally but it's not for me.)

To be fair: I dropped playing MP long ago and only for playing ground strike missions, unfortunately the AI in game sometimes tends to come strafe you in any case... (Also: you are discounting the possibility of player driven tanks raiding airfields, not just planes; I personally did one such raid in a T-34 wrecking havoc on a forward field back then)

To add to the talk though: air attacks on airfields are anything but unrealistic, only the fear of massive AA defences usually was able to deter more of them, but of course we can't force people to play the game with a loaded gun pointed at their head, can't we?

January 6, 2022

18 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

If the concern truly is a plane bearing down on you to strafe your craft into history, it'd be much faster to just end flight rather than wait for them to open canopy, undo straps, and get out of the aircraft. I'm sure they could jump out too, bypassing the wing step down, then of course they have sprained or broken ankles and are now lying helplessly next to their aircraft.

End flight is much faster. This is just some cosmetic gimmick because the old Il-2 series did it.

I'd argue that when you 'bail out' of your tank when it is immobilized, the crew don't jump from the tank -- a height that would hurt their ankles -- onto the ground before running away (like in IL-2 1946). Instead they spawn a short distance away from the tank and then walk away. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSNb3rTym90

CFS3 had a similar feature where whenever you ended the mission after you landed the pilot would walk away from the plane.

Hopefully this feature from TC can be implemented for aircraft in the game as well ?

January 8, 2022

On 1/6/2022 at 11:49 AM, Enceladus said:

I'd argue that when you 'bail out' of your tank when it is immobilized, the crew don't jump from the tank -- a height that would hurt their ankles -- onto the ground before running away (like in IL-2 1946). Instead they spawn a short distance away from the tank and then walk away. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSNb3rTym90

CFS3 had a similar feature where whenever you ended the mission after you landed the pilot would walk away from the plane.

Hopefully this feature from TC can be implemented for aircraft in the game as well ?

Way slower than the end flight option. So if you're concerned about being strafed, you've already been strafed in that scenario.

January 8, 2022

Next step, hit "end flight" as soon as an ennemy is behind you ?

January 15, 2022

On 1/7/2022 at 8:24 PM, FuriousMeow said:

Way slower than the end flight option. So if you're concerned about being strafed, you've already been strafed in that scenario.

Well if it's much quicker to end your mission then the devs wouldn't have gone through all of the trouble to implement the ability for tank crewmen to bail out of their tank when it is on fire/immobilized, but since they did then there's a good chance that they'll also implement this for pilots/air crew after they have landed and need to exit their aircraft... and not just if it's being strafed but if it's also on fire.

Pilots need to be able to not die when parachuting into water and be able to exit their aircraft after landing in BoN

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