Bf-G14 or some FW (A5/A8) against new Mustang B ?

[esk_pedja]

Your opinion (I do not have yet G6 Late from Steam):

Bf-G14 or some FW (A5/A8) against new Mustang B ?

 

Every opinion or experience would be much appreciated !

(Please comment speed difference between default B and D Mustang...)

 

Thanks to member dogfighters!

[Winkysmith]

I have found that the B model can outperform both of the German models. It’s stable in a sustained turn, as long as you don’t go too tight, and it’s also forgiving and responsive at low speeds if you handle it right. The armament (or lack thereof) is a major cause for concern for part of the community, but I find it extremely adequate. I would go so far as to say that each gun is almost equivalent in damage to a 15mm cannon. I have had enough ammunition to down at least 2 planes in each fight, and each aircraft that I have downed only required a short, well-aimed burst. Engine management is simple, with the radiator and oil cooler controls being automatic, and the manifold pressure being limited to 61 inches (within the bounds of combat power) unless you engage the boost. The lessened rearward visibility compared to the D has not bothered me at all, as I am used to flying British aircraft that have the “razorback” fuselage aft of the cockpit. Also, in my experience so far, it seems to be able to take quite a pasting before it becomes unflyable. Beware, though, because if you take damage to the tail section, especially if you lose the rudder, it will become rather unstable.
 

TL, DR: It’s a pleasant plane to fly, and even in it’s stock configuration it is an extremely capable aircraft with pleasant characteristics.

[BlitzPig_EL]

An AI 109K4 will out accelerate the B, and out climb it.  Have not flown against a G14 yet, but I will set something up soon.  The G6Late is an easy snack for the B. This is against "ACE" level AI BTW. 

To me the B is a smoother, lighter on the controls Mustang, that said, what I have said about the D in the past still holds true.

Fly it smooth and keep it fast and you can own  the sky.  The B just makes it a bit easier. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[sevenless]

Historically the contemporary opponents of the P51-B/C (intro 12/43) would have been the Fw-190 A6 and the Bf 109 G6 and G6 late (without MW50). In my limited tests the P-51 B/C eats both for breakfast. That seems pretty much spot on for me.

[Gingerwelsh]

Some L/L 400' IAspeeds to juggle with and compare: (without game cheats).

 

Rheinland Winter.               Autumn.

MP ............81.  

-7   420 mph.                      393 MPH  

 

-3   412 MPH.                      386 MPH

 

MP ...........67.

-7    390 MPH                      378 MPH

 

-3    385 MPH                      370 MPH

 

MP............61.

-7     381 MPH                      367 MPH

 

-3     375 MPH                     360 MPH

 

Note: In Winter the cooling flaps are fully closed. In Autumn, both are open. This will affect top speeds, apart from the air density difference.

 

I've flown P-51B at 61MP against G-14 (with pods) and 190 A8/6 (with racks) in Career and it will out turn both and keep pace.

The guns are better than I expected.

It is very stable.

..

Edited January 2, 2022 by Gingerwelsh

[[CPT]Crunch]

P-51B will make an average pilot very dangerous to you in nearly any German made ride.  It's a tough fight in tight, one on one practice fights I really notice the poor roll rate of the 109, the slow trim and elevator stuck in cement as compared, that thing is just too quick at everything to keep pace or shake it.  I feel good just remaining at stalemate, forget about swinging the fight to offensive in an up tight knife fight, unless he commits a grave error.  Fw, don't even think about slowing down, you'll get chewed up and mauled fast, avoid a knife fight like the plague. 

 

Best advise, bring a wingman or two, Hartman will have to remain on the eastern front. 

[ICDP]

It is worth remembering that the P51B we have in sim was not a late 1943, it's arguably not even an early 1944 version if you pick any of the "upgrades".  The additional fuel 85 gallon fuel tank started to appear mid way through P51B/C production and made it to operational around Feb/March 1944.  So in essence our P51B has so many options it is a mid 1944 version, or spring 1944 at best in it's stock configuration.

 

So saying it is a late 1943 or very early 1944 plane is inaccurate in the context of this sim.  Broadly speaking, it's contempories would have been G6 late with MW50, G14 and Fw190A8.

Edited December 31, 2021 by ICDP

[AEthelraedUnraed]

41 minutes ago, ICDP said:

The additional fuel 85 gallon fuel tank started to appear mid way through P51B/C production and made it to operational around Feb/March 1944. 

But wouldn't a P-51 without the extra fuel tank be more or less equivalent to filling our current P-51 up to about 2/3rds? Or is the weight distribution different?

[357th_KW]

The only difference between our P-51B in game and an early P-51B in December 1943 is the additional fuel capacity which has no meaningful impact on performance if you aren’t carrying the extra fuel.  All those original P-51B’s were retrofitted with the fuselage tank within a couple months anyway.  A 100 octane P-51B with the -3 engine is very much a contemporary of a non-MW 109G.  While MW50 first appeared in Spring of 44, there were plenty of G6s without it, even towards the end of 1944 - the MW50 system couldn’t be retrofitted to older aircraft - it had to be built into them.  

[esk_pedja]

I am afraid that my topic is misunderstood (opposite) !

My question was:  which Luftwaffe fighter to fly against B default - approx. during 1944.

 

I only have a "passive" Mustang B , that could be set only as enemy fighter - till complete BoN is finished and released on Steam ( hopefully during my lifespan... ).

 

Thanks to your experience... but I'm not asking for your feeling in handling B (hopefully one day...) but how to oppose it ?

If somebody has flown Luftwaffe fighters against P-51B, that would be appreciated answer. 

 

[sevenless]

I always thought we have the B5 in game? If we have the additional fuel tank, then according to this site we don´t have the B5 but the B7 or C3 respectively. Now, which is it?

 

Modeller's Guide to Late P-51 Mustang Variants (ipmsstockholm.org)

 

Quote

The last 550 P-51B-5-NAs were fitted with the extra fuel tank extra tank behind the pilot's seat in the pursuit of still more range, becoming P-51B-7-NAs, and into P-51C-1-NTs, becoming P-51C-3-NT. In addition, some earlier P-51Bs and Cs were modified in the field to accommodate this tank.

 

[ICDP]

You are both missing the point.  If we are being historically accurate the P51B we have as it stands in game is a circa spring 1944 - late 1944 variant.  You can all try to swing it or "rationalise" however you want, the contempory aircraft for a P51B with the fuselage tank(retrofitted or not) is a Bf109G6, Bf109G6 with MW50, Fw190A8 or G14 (with MW50).  The fact there were still "standard" G6s or Fw190A6s during the same period means nothing.

 

In answer to sevenless's question, technically it was still a B5 brought up to B7 standards.  The only difference between the B5 and the B7 was the adition of the 85 gallon fueslage fuel tank. North American simply introduced the planned upgrade during the B5 production run.

Edited December 31, 2021 by ICDP

[sevenless]

1 minute ago, ICDP said:

In answer to senless's question, technically it was still a B5 brought up to B7 standards.  The only difference between the B5 and the B7 was the adition of the 85 gallon fueslage fuel tank. North American simply introduced the planned upgrade during the B5 production run.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. So it is a B7 then. Yes I agree with your points. We have a timeframe beginning from 04/44 to the end of war. So dependant when exactly you do the comparision the german contemporary plane will be a G6 or G6 late without MW 50 up to a 07/44 G14 or G6 late with MW 50. Same for Fw-190s. 04/44 as a date will be A6 and A7 and later dates (beginning 05/44) will be A8s. 

[ICDP]

Just now, sevenless said:

 

Thanks for clearing that up. So it is a B7 then. Yes I agree with your points. We have a timeframe beginning from 04/44 to the end of war. So dependant when exactly you do the comparision the german contemporary plane will be a G6 or G6 late without MW 50 up to a 07/44 G14 or G6 late with MW 50. Same for Fw-190s. 04/44 as a date will be A6 and A7 and later dates (beginning 05/44) will be A8s. 

 

Nope it's a B5

 

The wording in that link wrongly implies they were given the fuselage tank and renamed to a block 7.  They weren't, they stayed as B5s, they were just manufactured to the upcoming B7 standards.  I think that makes sense.

 

Yes on the rest, there are so many options in the BoX P51B that it spans from spring 1944 to late 1944 for options.  Now obvioulsy the D model was introduced in March 44, so the B/C was no longer in production but a lot of these modifications were retrofitted in the field.  I think it is great we have such a wide range of options for the B.

[357th_KW]

https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2018/01/FRE_000414.jpeg
 

B-5, converted with the fuselage tank (denoted by the white cross).

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, ICDP said:

 

Nope it's a B5

 

The wording in that link wrongly implies they were given the fuselage tank and renamed to a block 7.  They weren't, they stayed as B5s, they were just manufactured to the upcoming B7 standards.  I think that makes sense.

 

Ah I see. So it isn´t as easy to discriminate between B5 and B7 as it seems at first glance. Anyways be it B5 or B7, it is a damn fine model you guys produced for the game with all those modifications included.

[ICDP]

3 minutes ago, VBF-12_KW said:

https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2018/01/FRE_000414.jpeg
 

B-5, converted with the fuselage tank (denoted by the white cross).

 

The link to the direct image isn't working.  Though yes the white (or black) cross denotes the aircraft had the Fuselage tank.

[357th_KW]

2 minutes ago, ICDP said:

.

Yes on the rest, there are so many options in the BoX P51B that it spans from spring 1944 to late 1944 for options.  Now obvioulsy the D model was introduced in March 44, so the B/C was no longer in production but a lot of these modifications were retrofitted in the field.  I think it is great we have such a wide range of options for the B.

So why would you say you can’t represent a December ‘43 through Spring ‘44 P-51B?  If you’re just using a 100 octane, V-1650-3 setup with no other crazy mods, it’s going to be exactly the same.  Just load less fuel if you want to simulate an early aircraft with no fuselage tank.  To say that’s not representative would be like saying ours doesn’t adequately represent a late spring/summer B-15 model with the -7 engine, because the default skin still says B-5 on it.

[453=SGII_Wotan]

To fly against the P51 B in 1944, take the 109G14, The 190A8 is a flying house brick. You need to be able to kill the P51B in your first pass or take the 109.

I got a decent bounce on a p51b on combat box yesterday in a 190a8 and got easily reversed and killed, however my current skill level is...........shit

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

In any case the performance would be the same if you load it with the regular amount of fuel the original one had, other than a few Kg extra of the fuel tank installation and the piping. With the lower amount of fuel loaded the plane is representative of that of a late 1943 one. Just like the G-14 is representative of a G-6 Late when the MW 50 kits started being implemented in the field (even though it was made a few months later) regardless of the small differences in the cockpit like the water temperature gauge.

This isn't like for example in DCS where there are upgraded mid 2000s 4th gen fighters with newer sensors, avionics suits or uprated engines trying to pass as their original 1980s configuration to battle against other cold war fighters as some players suggest in cold war set missions/servers.


 

Edited December 31, 2021 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[ICDP]

I didn't say it wasn't representative, but that is not the same thing as saying the P51B we have in game is historically a late 1943 model.  So the point was that "historically speaking", the OP is fine to take anything from a G6 with MW50 right through to a K4 or Fw190D and even an Me262.  If you want to fly against A6s and standard G6s then have at it.

 

EDIT:  Just to be clear, I am answering the question based on what the OP asked and his criterea (no G6 Late).

Edited December 31, 2021 by ICDP

[Dr_Molem]

Every engagements i got against this new P-51B finished by a clear win from my FW 190A-8.

 

Somehow i find it less dangerous than a P-51D, can't explain why.

 

And i precise that i'm the one that get intercepted 90% of time.

 

Their only chance to get away when i'm starting reversal maneuvers is to dive away.

[ICDP]

6 minutes ago, Dr_Molem said:

Every engagements i got against this new P-51B finished by a clear win from my FW 190A-8.

 

Somehow i find it less dangerous than a P-51D, can't explain why.

 

And i precise that i'm the one that get intercepted 90% of time.

 

Their only chance to get away when i'm starting reversal maneuvers is to dive away.

 

AI or online?  Honestly my experience of the Fw190A8, G14, G6 against the P51B is that it will be pilot skill that matters.  If you start mixing it up in a P51B then you are giving a lot of your advantage away.  It can and will outturn an Fw190A or even Bf109G at slower speeds but it's not going to be a cakewalk.  Especially against a G6 (with or without MW50).

Edited December 31, 2021 by ICDP

[esk_pedja]

5 minutes ago, Dr_Molem said:

Every engagements i got against this new P-51B finished by a clear win from my FW 190A-8.

 

Somehow i find it less dangerous than a P-51D, can't explain why.

 

And i precise that i'm the one that get intercepted 90% of time.

 

Their only chance to get away when i'm starting reversal maneuvers is to dive away.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "reversal maneuvers"... ( turning in opposite direction... forcing them in head to haead exchange of fire ? )

[ICDP]

I would assume they mean forcing an overshoot with rapid changes of roll direction, like in a scissors?

[Dr_Molem]

5 minutes ago, ICDP said:

 

AI or online?  Honestly my experience of the Fw190A8, G14, G6 against the P51B is that it will be pilot skill that matters.  If you start mixing it up in a P51B then you are giving a lot of your advantage away.  It can and will outturn an Fw190A or even Bf109G at slower speeds but it's not going to be a cakewalk.  Especially against a G6 (with or without MW50).

 

3 minutes ago, esk_pedja said:

I'm not sure what do you mean by "reversal maneuvers"... ( turning in opposite direction... forcing them in head to haead exchange of fire ? )

 

Online ofc.

 

I force them to slow down by switching between horizontal and vertical scissors, usually after a good trapped split-s.

[esk_pedja]

4 minutes ago, ICDP said:

 

AI or online?  Honestly my experience of the Fw190A8, G14, G6 against the P51B is that it will be pilot skill that matters.  If you start mixing it up in a P51B then you are giving a lot of your advantage away.  It can and will outturn an Fw190A or even Bf109G at slower speeds but it's not going to be a cakewalk.  Especially against a G6 (with or without MW50).

You mean like "against a Spit" ? Behave as energy fighter - avoid any dancing with P-51B... and wait for your 5-10 seconds ? 

[ICDP]

27 minutes ago, esk_pedja said:

You mean like "against a Spit" ? Behave as energy fighter - avoid any dancing with P-51B... and wait for your 5-10 seconds ? 

 

Yes basically.  If you are in a P51B and you get slow against a Bf109G then you are giving away a lot of your advantage.  If you are in a standard P51B then your top speed at low-mid altidues is very similar to an Fw190A and they are very evenly matched (P51B about 20mph faster which is not enough to "own" the fight).  It is only at higher altitudes or later higher octane boost versions does the P51B start to gain a ral performance advantage against the 190A.

 

If you are low and slow in an Fw190A against a P51B then fight it like you would a Spitfire by contantly changing direction.  The P51B wil eventually outturn you so stay out of prolonged horizontal turn fights.  Use your better rollrate to keep changing direction.

Edited December 31, 2021 by ICDP

[oc2209]

At low level, I would rather be in a Fw-190 versus a P-51B. Not a 109.

 

I've been playing around with this a bit lately. I hate using the 109K versus the P-51B (Ace level AI, giving it 500L of fuel, 150 octane w/81 inch boost, regular canopy--in other words, giving it the cleanest dogfighting configuration). The G-14 is okay against the B. The G-6 Late w/MW-50 is the easiest because it can turn with the B better than the heavier 109s.

 

But overall, the Fw-190 is easier to use against the P-51B than even the G-6 Late. Again, at low altitudes. All other factors being equal, I can usually end the fight faster in a 190. I'd also rather use a 190 A-6 than an A-8.

[LukeFF]

Just to add to what @ICDP wrote: almost always, when non-collector planes are added to the game, the base model chosen is what was in service at the start of the game's time frame. That's why our P-51B-5 is fitted with the fuselage fuel tank.

 

Furthermore, these are the equivalent C models:

 

B-5: C-1

B-7: C-3

B-15: C-5k

 

Like the B-5, some C-1s were upgraded to C-3 standards. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by LukeFF

[CUJO_1970]

8 hours ago, ICDP said:

If you are in a standard P51B then your top speed at low-mid altidues is very similar to an Fw190A and they are very evenly matched (P51B about 20mph faster which is not enough to "own" the fight).

 

I'm afraid not, at least on winter maps...the standard P51B with the -3 engine, even without 150 grade fuel does an absurd 406 mph on the deck on a winter map...it is a full on 35 mph faster than an A6.

The P-51B with the -7 engine, not even needing 150 grade fuel does 411 mph on the deck on winter map and is at least 40 mph faster than A6.

 

In fact, on winter map the standard P-51B without 150grade fuel with -3 and -7 engines are 31 mph and 36 mph faster respectively on the deck than a fully boosted FW190D-9.

 

Here is the current state of affairs, comparing -7 Mustang with regular fuel and fully boosted FW190D-9 on winter map:

 

 

 

 

[CUJO_1970]

10 hours ago, VBF-12_KW said:

While MW50 first appeared in Spring of 44, there were plenty of G6s without it, even towards the end of 1944 - the MW50 system couldn’t be retrofitted to older aircraft - it had to be built into them.  

 

All original G6 with MW50 were in fact retrofits of older G6/U2 with GM-1 injection already in use in 1943.

[ZachariasX]

The P51B is easily one of the best dogfighters in the game, in practise even better than the K4. 190s in any flavor are just victims if they don‘t hit you on the first pass. Fitted with the 81 inch mod, you can literally walk on them in the P51B while enjoying your time giving them a slow death.

 

Even with the DC engine, I find in practise the K4 being inferior. This because all heavier 109 tend to get mushy controls at slow speeds and it always takes a moment to get out of that. The P51B is very easy to control on the edge of the envelope.

 

I have used it a couple of times now online against the usual suspects and results are obvious. There is no German plane that can win any kind of scissor fight if you do it right (you can always end above them in the one circle fight and then they are dead) and they simply can‘t run. Much to the chagrin especially of the unicorn K4 drivers. 

 

The 81 inch mod makes it outrate anything but boosted Spits on the floor in a two circle fight. All you need to do is stay with any kind of opponent for about two turns, and then they are out of energy, even DC K4s. Pulling 81 inches, that doesn‘t happen to you if you do it right. And then kill them slowly, one burst at the time.

 

The only real downside is that in furballs, you cannot reliably kill them in one strike like in the Tempest, hence the issue of someone happens just to be at your 6 and shoot you is much longer present. In Tempests, you can mop the floor much faster.

 

The P51B is a monster versus fighters. Versus Bombers it is lacking punch.

 

For an easy win, take the Tempest.

For a fun win, take the P51B.

[ICDP]

4 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

I'm afraid not, at least on winter maps...the standard P51B with the -3 engine, even without 150 grade fuel does an absurd 406 mph on the deck on a winter map...it is a full on 35 mph faster than an A6.

The P-51B with the -7 engine, not even needing 150 grade fuel does 411 mph on the deck on winter map and is at least 40 mph faster than A6.

 

In fact, on winter map the standard P-51B without 150grade fuel with -3 and -7 engines are 31 mph and 36 mph faster respectively on the deck than a fully boosted FW190D-9.

 

Here is the current state of affairs, comparing -7 Mustang with regular fuel and fully boosted FW190D-9 on winter map:

 

 

 

 

 

Then there is a problem with the P51B getting those speeds in winter I would say.  Though that kind of backs up my point that deliberately giving up your speed to turn fight in a P51B throws away a large advantage.  What you are describing for the knife fights is fine margins and leaving a lot to chance that the other pilot is an idiot, who only knows how to pull the stick back into his gut.

 

My experience of MP is all people gaming the game and utterly unrealistic low and slow turnfights in the weeds.  People stealing kills, shoulder shooting, rage quitting, moronic long chases all over the map to get a kill, barley any teamwork, the single track mindset that it's not a kill until they explode or a wing comes off.  Yes you can get a good server and a decent session with a squad but most MP servers fall into what I just described.  I've been there and done that in the old IL2.

[ICDP]

7 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

I'm afraid not, at least on winter maps...the standard P51B with the -3 engine, even without 150 grade fuel does an absurd 406 mph on the deck on a winter map...it is a full on 35 mph faster than an A6.

The P-51B with the -7 engine, not even needing 150 grade fuel does 411 mph on the deck on winter map and is at least 40 mph faster than A6.

 

In fact, on winter map the standard P-51B without 150grade fuel with -3 and -7 engines are 31 mph and 36 mph faster respectively on the deck than a fully boosted FW190D-9.

 

Here is the current state of affairs, comparing -7 Mustang with regular fuel and fully boosted FW190D-9 on winter map:

 

 

 

 

 

Can I ask what map, time and aircraft RPM, fuel mixture etc were used for your test.  The best speed I can get from a standard P51B is ~390mph in winter maps.  This is with auto lean, RPM 2600, radiators manual (tried various settings), boost enabled.  Only with 81" boost I can reach the speeds you claim you got for the standard P51B.

Edited January 1, 2022 by ICDP

[ZachariasX]

Wht is kind of odd is that the P51B/C in stock configuration (61' Hg) is faster "Auto Lean" than "Auto Rich", both on the -3 and the -7 engines. This is odd, as the "Auto Rich should be non-functional according the the PN, page 12:

 

I made a top speed comparison of IAS at 500 m, autumn:

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -3, 61', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 574 km/h

(Auto Rich: 572 km/h), should not be selectable.

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -7, 61', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 587 km/h

(Auto Rich: 580 km/h)

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -3, 81', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 614 km/h

(Auto Rich: 614 km/h)

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -7, 81', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 623 km/h

(Auto Rich: 623 km/h)

 

 

The competition:

 

P-51D, 340L, Auto rads:

Stock 67': 604 km/h

150 oct. 75': 619 km/h

 

Fw190D9, rads 0% *), 340L (rest standard)

Full boost: 600 km/h

*)You can well do that at low level/high ambient pressure.

 

Bf-109K4, 340L, Auto rads:

1.8 ata: 608 km/h

1.98 ata: 622 km/h

 

Tempest, 340L

+11 boost: 624 km/h (fastest of all)

 

Both the Tempest and the V1 chaser Mustang are on par with the unicorn 1.98 ata K4 in speed on the deck, while the D9 is considerably slower. What is special about the V1 chaser Mustang is that it can follow a 1.98 ata K4 in a zoom climb after a high speed dash. Unless the 109K4 disengages with an energy advantage, it cannot escape the Mustang.

 

In all, both boosted P51 along with the Tempest are almost equally fast as the 1.98 ata Bf-109K4 with IAS of 620+ km/h. The runner up are stacked around 600 km/h. It is clear that against Mustangs, you go nowhere with the 190, unless you made them deplete their timers.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by ZachariasX
words

[ICDP]

If you want to be taken seriously maybe drop the "unicorn K4" nonsense?  I'm not going to get into a debate on if it was or wasn't rare, but calling it unicorn speaks more about you than it does about the devs decision to include it.

[ZachariasX]

5 minutes ago, ICDP said:

If you want to be taken seriously maybe drop the "unicorn K4" nonsense?  I'm not going to get into a debate on if it was or wasn't rare, but calling it unicorn speaks more about you than it does about the devs decision to include it.

Please, relax. 1 out of three such references... But words get their meaning from being read, not written. So, for the record, since this is obviously in doubt: I like all aircraft in the game and I am happy that each one is in the game as it is and I want even more aircraft and I don't care how many of them were actually used, because I still like to use them in the game and I like them.

 

And I even more like the fact that you dress them that pretty. Thank you for that as well. I mean that.

[CountZero]

21 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Wht is kind of odd is that the P51B/C in stock configuration (61' Hg) is faster "Auto Lean" than "Auto Rich", both on the -3 and the -7 engines. This is odd, as the "Auto Rich should be non-functional according the the PN, page 12:

 

I made a top speed comparison of IAS at 500 m, autumn:

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -3, 61', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 574 km/h

(Auto Rich: 572 km/h), should not be selectable.

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -7, 61', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 587 km/h

(Auto Rich: 580 km/h)

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -3, 81', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 614 km/h

(Auto Rich: 614 km/h)

 

P-51B/C, 340L, -7, 81', Auto rads:

Auto Lean: 623 km/h

(Auto Rich: 623 km/h)

 

 

The competition:

 

P-51D, 340L, Auto rads:

Stock 67': 604 km/h

150 oct. 75': 619 km/h

 

Fw190D9, rads 0% *), 340L (rest standard)

Full boost: 600 km/h

*)You can well do that at low level/high ambient pressure.

 

Bf-109K4, 340L, Auto rads:

1.8 ata: 608 km/h

1.98 ata: 622 km/h

 

Tempest, 340L

+11 boost: 624 km/h (fastest of all)

 

Both the Tempest and the V1 chaser Mustang are on par with the unicorn 1.98 ata K4 in speed on the deck, while the D9 is considerably slower. What is special about the V1 chaser Mustang is that it can follow a 1.98 ata K4 in a zoom climb after a high speed dash. Unless the 109K4 disengages with an energy advantage, it cannot escape the Mustang.

 

In all, both boosted P51 along with the Tempest are almost equally fast as the 1.98 ata Bf-109K4 with IAS of 620+ km/h. The runner up are stacked around 600 km/h. It is clear that against Mustangs, you go nowhere with the 190, unless you made them deplete their timers.

 

 

Also -3 engine is faster by 50kmh in sup 1 then on auto sup abow 5km. If left in auto its so slow at 5-8km compared to -7 engine.

 

In P-51D you can do 655kmh on deck at 75" if you use 2750rpm 0% oil and 37% water radiators max mixture, no overheating and 5min timer, 51B -7 can do 671kmh with 81" 2850rpm 0% oil and 37% water rads, max mixtures. While if you max out unicorn 109K you can do 638kmh with 0% rad and best RPM for speed. On winter map in 51B 81" i did 702kmh on deck with best settings for speed. -7 engine p51s are fastest props in game on any alt when not using auto rads.

 

[Avimimus]

7 hours ago, ICDP said:

My experience of MP is all people gaming the game and utterly unrealistic low and slow turnfights in the weeds.  People stealing kills, shoulder shooting, rage quitting, moronic long chases all over the map to get a kill, barley any teamwork, the single track mindset that it's not a kill until they explode or a wing comes off.  Yes you can get a good server and a decent session with a squad but most MP servers fall into what I just described.  I've been there and done that in the old IL2.

 

Well:

 

"low and slow turnfights in the weeds" happened in the historical record (as did not flying an aircraft to its strengths)

 

"People stealing kills" happened in the historical record (multiple pilots firing on the same plane)

 

"moronic long chases all over the map to get a kill" A lone spitfire pilot follows a flight of Bf-109s and only manages to catch up while they are over their own airfield (account found in 'Black crosses off my wingtips')

 

"it's not a kill until they explode or a wing comes off" expending all of ones ammunition on a single airplane to make sure it goes down is common in the historical record.

 

All of this makes me think that multiplayer could be made more realistic by a system that awards kills for shooting near a plane on the grounds that 'you think you hit' in order to correctly simulate unintentional overclaiming

 

P.S. I personally do actually agree with you a bit - both humans and AI are much more aggressive than was typical in real life, where pilots would often RTB if outnumbered or separated or having momentarily disengaged) - also there is a lack of flight-level coordination i.e. we don't usually have flight leaders in multiplayer.