Banding VR

[FTC_horsky]

Found in different posts on the forum, with no real fix, thought Id start a new thread on the topic and keep it here and see if we can solve it.
 

Since the latest patch, me and my squad mates experience noticeable banding across the scene. This topic has been brought up before, fix with mods (mods on) calibration tools and so on but no success and since multiplayer we cant use these fixes even if they work, calibration tools seems to be dependent on reshade.
 

We all fly in VR with 3080s and 3080tis. G2s mostly, quest2, index. We all experience the same banding issue, especially dawn, dusk, night, sea, dark large clouds. This all can be mitigated with higher gamma settings but sadly washes out the scene.

 

So what I understand is that its a limitation of the game engine not using dithering to mitigate banding, also could be done if incorporated from Nvidia in the control panel.
Is there really nothing that can be done? I dont remember having these issues before the latest patch. Mentioned before as a possible solution, raising Texture filtering to High Quality in NCP does nothing.

How is it for you guys flying VR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[firdimigdi]

Yup, there's banding a plenty (even on screen, not just VR, it's just more apparent in VR displays). The recent patch made it way more prominent at low gamma values, likely due to the changes in lighting it introduced, but it also made using low gamma values less necessary for me; in 4.701 I find 1.0 gamma in the G2 to be way less tiring than it used to be and it doesn't affect my spotting ability, previously I played with .7 or sometimes .6 gamma.

 

I've not been able to find a "cure" for this even by forcing relevant hidden settings via nvidia Profile Inspector or similar so I just ignore it.

[Oraham]

Yeah +1 guy's.

 

Was able to enjoy 8 v 8 spits & 109's running really well. (Index & 2080ti)

 

With the latest patch finding the same as you guy's. Banding and stuttering really bad.

?

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Banding with low gamma is there but no stutters or anything like that for me atleast

[FTC_horsky]

Guess we´ll have to live with it, gamma around 1.0-1.2 is ok, a tad washed out but better than the prominent banding.

 

[Oraham]

Performance better after the hot fix.

 

Now usable if you max the gamma right up!

 

(After some further testing this evening I take that back.....not much better at all ??)

 

Update

After reinstall performance restored....... Zero banding in the middle of the Rhine map! ?

Edited January 3, 2022 by Oraham
Progress

[shirazjohn]

Hi guys has anyone tried this https://vrtoolkit.retrolux.de/ it looks like reshade for vr which includes dithering to help with banding.

 

I personally don't notice the banding but maybe worth a try, is says il2 bos is included in the supported games.

[FTC_horsky]

34 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

Hi guys has anyone tried this https://vrtoolkit.retrolux.de/ it looks like reshade for vr which includes dithering to help with banding.

 

I personally don't notice the banding but maybe worth a try, is says il2 bos is included in the supported games.

Its for reshade, its not allowed in multiplayer ?‍♂️ will probably work in singleplayer.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Banding is terrible in vr. I noticed it before the patch as well though.

[dburne]

To me the banding does not seem to be near as noticeable as it used to be.

[FTC_horsky]

6 hours ago, dburne said:

To me the banding does not seem to be near as noticeable as it used to be.

The banding wasn't so distinct prior 4.701, I didn't notice as to be aware of it all the time when flying.
None in the squad sports a vp2, maybe the vp2 handles banding better then the other headsets, interesting to know.

 

[Talisman]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:29 AM, Oraham said:

Yeah +1 guy's.

 

Was able to enjoy 8 v 8 spits & 109's running really well. (Index & 2080ti)

 

With the latest patch finding the same as you guy's. Banding and stuttering really bad.

?

 

8 v 8 set up for me and no banding or stutters (1080ti and Pimax 5k+), so perhaps I am lucky.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Edited December 16, 2021 by ACG_Talisman

[FTC_horsky]

Dawn 07.30

Moscow
Overcast

[chiliwili69]

11 hours ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

Dawn 07.30

Moscow
Overcast

 

Yesterday I was playing for first time with the new clouds version and I didn´t notice this banding effect with my Index at 80Hz and using MSAAx2 with gamma 0.8. I don´t use any kind of mod or upscaling algorithm (I don´t need it).

 

It might happen in certain conditions of light/sun and clouds.

 

Please, put your usual game settings and also all the details of the QMB (Winter?, type of clouds, elevation, etc). So we can fully reproduce your views.

Edited December 17, 2021 by chiliwili69

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

13 hours ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

Dawn 07.30

Moscow
Overcast

 

 

 

I am seeing this issue as well with the Reverb G2. Very noticeable when dark clouds are present in the viewing area. Looks pretty bad

[von_Tom]

 

I have noticed banding when using overcast and the dusk setting in Vander's quick mission generator.  It looks like  a band of oddness where the base of various cloud layers overlap.  It moves as the aircraft moves.

 

I'm not in a position to post a screenshot sadly.

 

As it is the clouds make such a difference and the whole sim has taken an immersive leap to the good.

 

von Tom

 

 

 

 

[firdimigdi]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Yesterday I was playing for first time with the new clouds version and I didn´t notice this banding effect with my Index at 80Hz and using MSAAx2 with gamma 0.8. I don´t use any kind of mod or upscaling algorithm (I don´t need it).

 

It might happen in certain conditions of light/sun and clouds.

 

Please, put your usual game settings and also all the details of the QMB (Winter?, type of clouds, elevation, etc). So we can fully reproduce your views.

 

Banding has always been a thing even before the cloud update, hence the no-banding mod that was released. I can see it on screen, I used to notice it with the Rift S as well and now with the G2 it is still there with or without upscaling mods and regardless of the settings you use. It's very prominent in the gradient of the sky (or bodies of water) at dawn/dusk or with haze present.

 

In addition to the above the new clouds are raymarched and the artifacts they exhibit are much in line with that that sort of technology does - you can play with a similar example here: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/3sffzj - if you reduce the steps and disable the dithering you will see much the same result seen with the cloud banding in IL2.

 

[FTC_horsky]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:03 AM, chiliwili69 said:

 

Yesterday I was playing for first time with the new clouds version and I didn´t notice this banding effect with my Index at 80Hz and using MSAAx2 with gamma 0.8. I don´t use any kind of mod or upscaling algorithm (I don´t need it).

 

It might happen in certain conditions of light/sun and clouds.

 

Please, put your usual game settings and also all the details of the QMB (Winter?, type of clouds, elevation, etc). So we can fully reproduce your views.

I dont think it has anything to do with my game settings, because no matter what settings its always the same banding effect. Most pronounced dawn, dusk with heavy clouds. Also appears noticeably over dark sea and dark skies. MP & SP same same. Also tried the banding_fix mod in sp just to see, but to no avail didnt work.

As 335th_grFirdimigdi mentions, banding has always been there more or less, only now it is more pronounced with the new clouds and weather system.

We have a pilot in our squad sporting an Index coupled with a ryzen 5600x and a 3080, he experiences the same thing. I myself am sitting with a g2, 9900k and 3080ti. Rest of the squad g2s, g1s, ranging from intels 7th gen up to 9th gen with 3000 series cards and one with a quest2, ryzen 5600x and a 3080. 

 

All updates win10, nvidia graphics drivers, wmr, steam (non beta) up to date.

Nvidia settings / default 

Steam VR General / 100%
Per application IL2 / 60% 

FSR / Tried with stock openvr.api.dll and fsr's, same results. (Firstly I thought fsr/nis interfered, but it was not)
FSR / using FSR, didnt like NIS (same results with NIS)
          renderscale 1 (off)
          sharpen 0.9
          radius 0.7
          mipbias true 

IL2 Graphics settings.

 

Preset / High
Shadows / Medium
Mirrors / Off
Distance Landscape detail / x4
Horizon draw distance / 70km
Landscape filter / Blurred
MSAAx4
SSAO / Off

HDR / Off
Sharpen / Off

Gamma / lowest 0.8 to maximum 1.2, depending situation (same banding effect, higher better, though washed out scene)

QMB 

Moscow / Autumn (can take any map, any season)
Time / morning 07.30 (early hours and late hours most pronounced) 
Wind / 2 m/s
Wind direction / Random
Turbulence / 1 m/s
Cloud cover / Overcast (can try with Cumulunimbus Congestus, broken as well)
Clouds level / 1500m 
Precipitation / 10
Haze density / 2

Dawn fog/dusk / Off
 

Edited December 21, 2021 by SvAF/F16_horsky

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

As @SvAF/F16_horsky said, it indeed appears a lot depending on the scene rather than on the settings. I see it as well when looking at early or late scenes.

[C6_lefuneste]

It's more easier to sese during night : https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62400-mod-vrem-vr-enhancer/?do=findComment&comment=1150018

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by C6_lefuneste

[coconut]

To me it looks like clouds are rendered using a 16-bit buffer, instead of 24-bit. I wonder if it has to be this way. The memory saving are quite negligible, but maybe it's needed for performance reasons?

[C6_lefuneste]

1 hour ago, coconut said:

To me it looks like clouds are rendered using a 16-bit buffer, instead of 24-bit. I wonder if it has to be this way. The memory saving are quite negligible, but maybe it's needed for performance reasons?

I'm not sure. For the moon "halo", the sampling of the texture is giving a non banded display, but very bright. Then additional process lower the brightness and introduce banding. Putting some dithering on it seems to solve the issue.

[FTC_horsky]

9 hours ago, C6_lefuneste said:

It's more easier to sese during night : https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62400-mod-vrem-vr-enhancer/?do=findComment&comment=1150018

 

This is perfect! But unfortunately not for the multiplayer crowd unless its from official channels.

[C6_lefuneste]

38 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

This is perfect! But unfortunately not for the multiplayer crowd unless its from official channels.

Maybe it should allow to do the same than for VR zoom.

I release it, it makes some noise on forum and finally Jason would make devs move...?

Edited December 18, 2021 by C6_lefuneste

[C6_lefuneste]

A "deband" patch for my mod is available here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62400-mod-vrem-vr-enhancer/?do=findComment&comment=1150454

It seems to work not too bad, but I did very few testing.

[FTC_horsky]

3 minutes ago, C6_lefuneste said:

A "deband" patch for my mod is available here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62400-mod-vrem-vr-enhancer/?do=findComment&comment=1150454

It seems to work not too bad, but I did very few testing.

Much obliged! ?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

That's not a solution, it does not work in MP. This graphical bug should get fixed by the Devs, not by a 3rd party mod.

[C6_lefuneste]

That's a proof than even someone like me can do it. So, they could also.

[FTC_horsky]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

That's not a solution, it does not work in MP. This graphical bug should get fixed by the Devs, not by a 3rd party mod.

I agree. Sincerely hope that the devs fix this for us in the multiplayer crowd. I'm thinking they just missed it or just didn't try it with certain settings and was overlooked.

[chiliwili69]

On 12/17/2021 at 1:24 PM, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

I dont think it has anything to do with my game settings, because no matter what settings its always the same banding effect. Most pronounced dawn, dusk with heavy clouds. Also appears noticeably over dark sea and dark skies. MP & SP same same. Also tried the banding_fix mod in sp just to see, but to no avail didnt work.

As 335th_grFirdimigdi mentions, banding has always been there more or less, only now it is more pronounced with the new clouds and weather system.

 

Yeah, I have been testing with your mission settings (the sun position is playing a role and the density) with 1080p, 4K and Index and I can clearly see it now.

 

I have been testing many other combinations of IL-2 settings and it doesn´t correct the problem. (as you said).

 

I didn´t see it before because I only played for an hour with the new clouds and used more scattered and less dark scenes. But now, it is easier to see this effect since I can know where I should look at. In fact, it is almost impossible to not see it now.

 

Let´s see if the Dev Team can fix that.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by chiliwili69

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:44 PM, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

Dawn 07.30

Moscow
Overcast

I saw this exact same thing last night on Finnish at dawn.

[dawud]

Yeah noticed it too .. in VR it looks way worse.
And i feel, that it´s only vissible when the light is dimm/clouds are dark.
The Color-banding really messes with my immersion.
Could this be resolved, by adjusting some contrast-levels?

\edit
Wow, that last picture has some strong banding.

Edited December 21, 2021 by dawud

[FTC_horsky]

1 hour ago, dawud said:

Yeah noticed it too .. in VR it looks way worse.
And i feel, that it´s only vissible when the light is dimm/clouds are dark.
The Color-banding really messes with my immersion.
Could this be resolved, by adjusting some contrast-levels?

\edit
Wow, that last picture has some strong banding.

Yes, in VR its way worse than on those pictures, I agree.  Worst cases in some angles and light the whole cloud "dome" swirls and moves, like when watching a timelapse of Jupiters atmosphere.
They should be able to fix it quite easily, though no one knows if it is a priority or not ?‍♂️ C6_lefuneste made a debanding fix for VR Enhancer if singleplayer is your thing then give it a go.

Edited December 21, 2021 by SvAF/F16_horsky

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, dawud said:

adjusting some contrast-levels

Higher gamma for sure helps but does not hide it entirely. I am still undecided as to whether HDR keeps the brightness more uniform and thus helps as well. In theory you'd notice it more in high contrast situations.

 

The clouds specifically is a combination of the overall banding issue in the game in conjuction with the above-mentioned raymarched cloud shader. You can see the individual layers that make it up.

[dawud]

i´ll play with some HDR/Sharpness/Filter options until a fix will be on the Horizon
Clouds are on max.. not everything else tho´ due to VR beeing a real performancekiller.

Edited December 21, 2021 by dawud

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Guys, can you prove that your solution does not impact VR performance negatively?

 

Please trust me, without further words of my side, that this is the essential factor in getting it into a review and possibly worked on next year.

 

 

I currently don't have time to test this, but if we can get several samples as data points speaking for this it may become possible. Please uphold ceteris paribus when comparing active mod vs vanilla.

20 hours ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

They should be able to fix it quite easily, though no one knows if it is a priority or not ?‍♂️ 

Well, please let hard data / benchmarks speak.

 

Best regards

[firdimigdi]

43 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Guys, can you prove that your solution does not impact VR performance negatively?

 

It's all @C6_lefuneste's work, I've not tried it yet, but whenever I'm able to I'll benchmark it as well using a track in cloudy weather and post results here.

As he says in his VREM thread his main concern is if it might create again that dreaded halo around planes.
 

On 12/20/2021 at 5:24 PM, C6_lefuneste said:

The only risk could be to have a kind of 'halo' around a plane in front of cloud, as it was the case with older version of clouds. But I did not see it in my testings.

[FTC_horsky]

Thought id do a follow up with side by side comparisons. As we know this fix only works with mods on and suits the single-player crowd, an official fix from the devs would be much appreciated for the vr multiplayer crowd.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by SvAF/F16_horsky

[Picchio]

@C6_lefuneste I'm curious: is your Deband shader applied to the whole scene?

And is it configurable with the same parameters as the Deband shader we find in Reshade?

[C6_lefuneste]

2 hours ago, Picchio said:

@C6_lefuneste I'm curious: is your Deband shader applied to the whole scene?

And is it configurable with the same parameters as the Deband shader we find in Reshade?

No, only on cloud and on moon halo. I'd like to do it for sea, but it is more complex. I also need to check for sky. The idea is to not worsen the whole rendering because of the deband feature.

No configurable parameters are available or planned.

Edited January 13, 2022 by C6_lefuneste