Pulled the trigger on the Varjo Aero ?

[dburne]

Finally Fed Ex purgatory is over!

Updated delivery status tomorrow 1/26 by 12:00 PM.

 

I will be testing IL-2. DCS, and MSFS 2020. Oh and Half Life Alyx as well along with Medal of Honor Above and Beyond. Probably not all in one day though lol.

Edited January 25, 2022 by dburne

[Picchio]

Still no word regarding compatibility with AMD GPUs?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Picchio said:

Still no word regarding compatibility with AMD GPUs?

 

I have not seen any news on that one sorry.

[Patricks]

1 hour ago, Picchio said:

Still no word regarding compatibility with AMD GPUs?

 

I would contact Varjo support directly and ask them!

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, Picchio said:

Still no word regarding compatibility with AMD GPUs?

 

Independently of that, the problem of AMD cards is with IL-2, specially in VR. For some unknown reasons they perform worse than it should be.

[Picchio]

Got my reply from Support: no official plans for now. I feel it must come at some point. If only the utter insanity plaguing the GPU market could end.

[dburne]

This is interesting - apparently DCS will be supporting the multi rendering capability of the Aero in next open beta update. Would love to see more do this as well.

https://varjo.com/vr-lab/varjo-support-in-dcs/

 

Of course with the Varjo headsets being priced high there will likely not be many in use, so may not be worth the effort for other developers to implement.

 

Edit: Odd getting page not found now - well it was there previously. In any event sounds like something that is coming.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

She is on Fed Ex truck out for delivery!!

Time to start cleaning out some previous VR files.

 

[Rustedgun]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

She is on Fed Ex truck out for delivery!!

Time to start cleaning out some previous VR files.

 

 

Don,  I am just behind you as I expect mine in a day or two. I would be interested to hear any things you do or run into as you setup as I believe I am on the same general journey as you (IL2, DCS, MSFS) and I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of stuff.  Thanks

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, Rustedgun said:

 

Don,  I am just behind you as I expect mine in a day or two. I would be interested to hear any things you do or run into as you setup as I believe I am on the same general journey as you (IL2, DCS, MSFS) and I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of stuff.  Thanks

 

Will be glad to.

In preperation I have uninstalled Vive Console, WMR, WMR for Steam VR, and Steam VR. Vive Console I used with Vive Pro 2, and WMR with Reverb G2.

When uninstalling Steam VR I used the following recommended method to clean it out good:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/2/1640917625015598552/

 

In addition I cleaned out any leftover files for the above in the appdata folders.

Hoping all this will give me a good fresh start with the Aero.

I am thinking positive, just got done killing some time whilst I wait by boxing up my other headsets and putting them away.

I hope to get to test with all three sims very soon.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

Fed Ex is teasing me, tracking now says by end of day when previously it said before noon. Nothing else I can do on this end, even boxed up the Vive Pro 2 and Reverb G2 and put them away. Thinking positive!

Flight controllers still mounted and hooked up, waiting to go on a moment's notice!

Edited January 26, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

Finally - It is here safe and sound !  Woohoo!!

 

[Charlo-VRde]

[SCG_motoadve]

35 minutes ago, dburne said:

Finally - It is here safe and sound !  Woohoo!!

 

Great, lucky you!

Let us know how does it compare to the Vive Pro 2, clarity, performance, and ghosting?

[dburne]

Holy cow!

I just ran a quick mission in the Spit Mk IV in IL-2 just for a quick spin. Left Steam VR at it's native 100% resolution for the Aero. Aero set on default of high which is 35 PPD.

Wow it was gorgeous! And even at that high resolution I was able to maintain between 60-70 fps. No motion compensation and it was surprisingly smooth.

Not much time for testing and tweaking this evening unfortunately, hope to get some more in tomorrow and start digging into the weeds with it.

 

My initial impression - blows my Vive Pro 2 out of the water. Talk about one more crisp, sharp , detailed image. Seeing some strangeness in menu screens though with image distorting some as head moves around, just in menus though. And in game if you look for it around say the last 5% of outer edges you will see a little - but really have to be looking for it.

 

But I caution again - this is a very early impression with only about 15 minutes spent in the sim, so give me some more time over  the next few days to come up with a good conclusion.

 

I need more time with it across a few games. I am thinking this thing is going to be on a whole new level for VR. As it darn well should for that cost.

Edited January 26, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

Just a heads up for DCS,

If using the Aero in it you will need to use the DCS provided Debug Tool to swap the top/bottom of each lens. Otherwise you are going to see some crazy stretching/moving of image mainly in menus but some in flight also. You can get it from the pinned thread in the VR section.

 

Also on another note talking about distortion, Varjo has confirmed they have multiple reports on it and will hopefully  be addressing in future software updates. I personally so far have not found it bad, but still need more testing in various games.

Also one needs to take some time with all the headset adjustments to get the fit just right. Once there, it is really nice - and omg the sweet spot is so large. Way better than any of my previous headsets.

 

FOV - IL-2 reports mine as 88 degrees. However it "feels" larger to me, seems more close to my Vive Pro 2 than my Reverb G2. Probably due to the much larger sweet spot perhaps. Vertical FOV is definitely smaller, especially as the optimum positioning has the headset pretty low in the front. 

 

The provided earbuds plugged into the Aero sound jack - not much good imho. I will be using my own solution for audio/mic.

 

More to follow as I continue to experiment with various games.

Edited January 27, 2022 by dburne

[WIS-Redcoat]

What headset are you thinking about getting?  Seems like a lot of people like the HD25 but I really need a mic.  I was thinking about the Penrose.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

What headset are you thinking about getting?  Seems like a lot of people like the HD25 but I really need a mic.  I was thinking about the Penrose.

 

I have ordered Razer earbuds with Mic to try out. Currently using my Seinheiser headset but just too much bulk, hoping earbuds will work good for me.

[Patricks]

9 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I have ordered Razer earbuds with Mic to try out. Currently using my Seinheiser headset but just too much bulk, hoping earbuds will work good for me.

 

Cool, please let us know.. i'm in the same boat and need a good mic...

 

[Rustedgun]

The Base software for the Aero has a compatibility section with the ability to turn on/off  "OpenVR" and "OpenXR". I think OpenXR is newer but I am not clear on what sims use which one. So, if you are using multiple flight sims and possibly some other sims/games etc. do you just turn them both on and leave them on? Does the application figure out which to use? Does IL2 and DCS use one or both? I know for MSFS people suggest that you use OpenXR so do you have to turn on OpenXR on and leave OpenVR off?

I am a little confused on this matter obviously. Thanks for any input.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Rustedgun

[LukeFF]

My friend who pre-ordered the Aero just received his today, so I should know soon how he likes it. 

[dburne]

5 hours ago, Icer said:

 

Cool, please let us know.. i'm in the same boat and need a good mic...

 

 

Will do it should arrive sometime tomorrow afternoon/evening.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rustedgun said:

The Base software for the Aero has a compatibility section with the ability to turn on/off  "OpenVR" and "OpenXR". I think OpenXR is newer but I am not clear on what sims use which one. So, if you are using multiple flight sims and possibly some other sims/games etc. do you just turn them both on and leave them on? Does the application figure out which to use? Does IL2 and DCS use one or both? I know for MSFS people suggest that you use OpenXR so do you have to turn on OpenXR on and leave OpenVR off?

I am a little confused on this matter obviously. Thanks for any input.

 

AFAIK MSFS2020 is only one that can use OpenXR. You still would need Steam VR for the headset tracking.

Edited January 28, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

I just flew a combat mission in the Spit Mk IV in my PWCG Campaign in the Aero for the first time.

I actually flew it in full native resolution for the Aero (35PPD).

I think all I can say at this point is holy cow and wow.

Gotta have a cig after that one.

[Picchio]

16 minutes ago, dburne said:

I just flew a combat mission in the Spit Mk IV in my PWCG Campaign in the Aero for the first time.

I actually flew it in full native resolution for the Aero (35PPD).

I think all I can say at this point is holy cow and wow.

Gotta have a cig after that one.

 

What's the level of performance you are achieving (FPS and FT)?

And if you try pushing a G2 (I remember you saying you own one, if I'm not mistaken) to the same resolution you're running the Aero, how do they compare, visually?

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, Picchio said:

 

What's the level of performance you are achieving (FPS and FT)?

And if you try pushing a G2 (I remember you saying you own one, if I'm not mistaken) to the same resolution you're running the Aero, how do they compare, visually?

 

Never tried to push the G2 to Aero's level of resolution so I can not answer that. G2 along with WMR is completely cleaned out of my system now.

My fps stayed between 70 and 80 the whole mission. Do not know on frametimes. I can say the mission was quite flyable. I am sure I could easily lower the resolution some and it would still look fantastic. Based on what I am seeing I am very pleased. I came from Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2. This is on a whole new level imho. Colors are gorgeous.

 

Edit: Oh and the sweet spot is freakin huge.  For the first time in any VR headset I have owned, I could keep my head centered and move my eyes left and right and easily read the instruments I was seeing. I bet the sweet spot is 80-90% of the image.

Edited January 28, 2022 by dburne

[Picchio]

Appreciate your feedback. I hope that someone among you lucky owners will decide to take the time and make thorough comparisons.

[Varibraun]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

My fps stayed between 70 and 80 the whole mission. Do not know on frametimes. I can say the mission was quite flyable. I am sure I could easily lower the resolution some and it would still look fantastic. Based on what I am seeing I am very pleased. I came from Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2. This is on a whole new level imho. Colors are gorgeous.

 

Don, I know that you really can't answer this, but I will ask anyway.  You guys are making me a lot more interested at this point than I thought I would be (because my plan has been to hold out for a 4080 late this year), so how do you think it would perform with a 2080TI (which appears to be one step above min spec)?  Thanks!

 

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Varibraun said:

 

Don, I know that you really can't answer this, but I will ask anyway.  You guys are making me a lot more interested at this point than I thought I would be (because my plan has been to hold out for a 4080 late this year), so how do you think it would perform with a 2080TI (which appears to be one step above min spec)?  Thanks!

 

 

Well obviously it would be some less, but 2080 Ti is no real slouch either. Best would be if someone that has a 2080 can advise.

[dburne]

I am finding performance in the Aero to be pretty comparable to the Reverb G2 at a much better resolution.

Lowered the image to 90% and running 80-85 fps. That is 3648x3128 per eye.

So I would suggest this - if one can run the Reverb G2 acceptably then I would say you will be able to do the same with the Aero.

Edited January 28, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

Had a low level bombing mission - heavy clouds and snow - fair amount of enemy ai activity. FPS 65-72. Had some stuttering but not too bad at least for me. Same 90% resolution.

[Dagwoodyt]

While I could come up with the funds to buy an Aero I doubt I would spend any more time in it than I do now using the Index. As a result I am not able to get excited about the increased resolution. Hopefully other options will surface eventually.

[dburne]

23 hours ago, Icer said:

 

Cool, please let us know.. i'm in the same boat and need a good mic...

 

 

Got the Razer earbuds with mic.  Hammerhead Duo.

Sound is really good ( plugged into my Creative sound port on MB.)

Mic I can not comment on. Razer Cord was not long enough, so I had to use an extension I had laying around here. The extension does not support Mic.

I have ordered one that does and it will be here sometime tomorrow.

 

[WIS-Redcoat]

5 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Well obviously it would be some less, but 2080 Ti is no real slouch either. Best would be if someone that has a 2080 can advise.

I find the aero performance to be as good but probably slightly better than the G2.  So I would answer that question by comparing people that use the G2 with a 2080.

 

 

[Donik]

3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

While I could come up with the funds to buy an Aero I doubt I would spend any more time in it than I do now using the Index. As a result I am not able to get excited about the increased resolution. Hopefully other options will surface eventually.

 

Eh I would say if you need to "come up" with the funds rather than just having them in your pocket, you're better off enjoying your current kit than buying new stuff. But that's just me.

 

To everyone who owns it so far:

Sounds like the resolution and clarity is solid, as well as the sweet spot covering a very large portion of the lens (my biggest gripe with the G2). How's the FOV? Is it like looking through binoculars? Without the magnification, obviously. Or do you have a wider, more natural viewing area?

 

I'll be watching this thread closely. Sounds like VR is getting much closer to checking things off my hardware snob list. ?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Donik

[Varibraun]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

So I would suggest this - if one can run the Reverb G2 acceptably then I would say you will be able to do the same with the Aero.

 

38 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

I find the aero performance to be as good but probably slightly better than the G2.  So I would answer that question by comparing people that use the G2 with a 2080.

 

Thank you both...that unfortunately means I could considering buying it now instead of waiting.  LOL, you guys are killing me...what I think I am hearing you both say, is at least for your circumstances, it was worth the cost for what you are now seeing outside the cockpit. 

 

I would have to buy lighthouses too, ack...decisions, decisions.  I will see what @LukeFF has to say and see if he starts torturing me too!  All tongue in cheek here, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to give feedback on what seems like the next step forward in VR for IL2.

[Charlo-VRde]

I’ve been carefully reading the Varjo Discord channel at https://discord.gg/Gf9afpgm

 

I’m still on the fence, may wait to see if some of the teething problems being discussed in the Discord are resolved…

[LukeFF]

38 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

I would have to buy lighthouses too, ack...decisions, decisions.  I will see what @LukeFF has to say and see if he starts torturing me too!  All tongue in cheek here, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to give feedback on what seems like the next step forward in VR for IL2.

 

LOL yes, I am still waiting on my order confirmation. From what my friend has said, based on how many Varjo is shipping per week, I should probably receive a shipment confirmation sometime in February.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Donik said:

 

Eh I would say if you need to "come up" with the funds rather than just having them in your pocket, you're better off enjoying your current kit than buying new stuff. But that's just me.

 

To everyone who owns it so far:

Sounds like the resolution and clarity is solid, as well as the sweet spot covering a very large portion of the lens (my biggest gripe with the G2). How's the FOV? Is it like looking through binoculars? Without the magnification, obviously. Or do you have a wider, more natural viewing area?

 

I'll be watching this thread closely. Sounds like VR is getting much closer to checking things off my hardware snob list. ?

 

IL-2 reports the horizontal FOV as being 88 degrees on my setup. About the same as was reported for the Reverb G2.

I saw a You Tuber mention this once and I am going to say the same.

The horizontal FOV definitely has a wider "feeling". It really feels to me more like the Vive Pro 2 horizontal FOV than the Reverb G2 FOV.

Hard to say why except maybe due to the much larger sweet spot.

 

Now vertical FOV, yeah that is noticeably less. Maybe that helps to make the horizontal FOV seem larger. Does not bother me though cause the image just looks so dang good. I have never been much concerned with the vertical FOV anyway. Index has a great vertical FOV and I could have cared less in that aspect of the headset.

 

And yes, I would wholeheartedly agree with your first point.

[Rustedgun]

Got my Aero yesterday so I spend a good amount of time today setting it up and trying things out. I will give my first impressions and also state some install and setup items just in case anyone else runs into them.

- Am I glad I got this?... absolutely! It is a winner

- I started out by setting up IL2, then DCS and then MSFS

- Clarity, performance, sweet spot, colour, brightness, sound (with headphones) are all great. I will not yammer on about all this stuff because others have discussed this and I fully agree with them. Of course it is the overall clarity and sharpness that strikes you first and then all the rest just follows on.

- I also quickly realized that not only could I see things better and further but there was without a doubt an additional feel for depth of view and perspective.

- I think Don's discussion on FOV earlier in this thread was spot on so no need to elaborate

- I do not see much of what I think of as distortion but what I do see is a more spherical view of the world. It is like I am in the center of the view and the everything has a slight fish bowl effect as I pan around. It is slightly strange but I am getting use to it. I could see some downside to this but it also makes for some incredible panoramic views at 20,000 feet in the clouds.

- The install and setup was a bit miserable at times but 90% of this was setting up the Vive base stations and controllers (glad I never got an Index). What are the odds of 2 base stations both being on channel 5 when there are 16 channels to choose from? So after 20 minutes of sticking a paper clip into the back slot of the base stations I finally got one to change channels. The Controllers were also wacky at pairing and I finally had to take one of then out of the room to hide it from view so the other would pair.

- On the Varjo side of things when I got to the step where you plug the headset in to the computer I got an error message saying the headset could not communicate with the graphics card (3090). I tried 3 different Displayports multiple times and tried resetting in the software with no luck. I finally just rebooted the computer and it worked. I did have one more incident later in the day where it said the same thing but a restart fixed it (still... a little strange)

- When I first started using the headset something seemed just a bit off and I could not nail it down. I then saw that it was on "auto" IPD and the number in the greyed out field was 59. I know I am 63 so I turned off the auto IPD and the number magically jumped to 63. That solved the problem.

- I started with IL2 because it has a very good VR implementation. It did not let me down. Very good went to great. Nuff said.

- DCS required 2 things. The first, as mentioned above, was the need to use the Debug Tool that DCS provides to fix the eye views (thanks Don). Worked wonderfully. The second was that I turned down the in-game PD from 1.4 to 1.0. But don't think for a moment that I lost any detail or clarity - at 1.0 in-game and default "High" in Varjo the result is excellent.

- MSFS was my biggest pleasant surprise. Not only was the clarity and detail as good as others have described but my performance at "High" is much better than I had previously experienced with a Rift S. I love a world where you increase the resolution, clarity and detail AND you get much better performance. I have a test location that I use with various aircraft and in each test the performance and smoothness was quite noticeably better (and without stutters). I can finally say that I can just now enjoy MSFS as a flight sim and I do not need to endlessly tinker.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Rustedgun

[chiliwili69]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:10 PM, dburne said:

full native resolution for the Aero (35PPD).

 

Below is the settings of the Aero software, so I believe that when you said 35ppd you set the setting at Highest, right?

 

Then, could you tell me what are the pixel count that appear in the SS SteamVR slide bar when it is set to 100%?

 

On 1/28/2022 at 6:42 PM, dburne said:

Had a low level bombing mission - heavy clouds and snow - fair amount of enemy ai activity. FPS 65-72. Had some stuttering but not too bad at least for me. Same 90% resolution.

 

If you have a fair amount of enemy ai activity in low level, here the bottleneck could be CPU. So nothing specifically related to the Aero and number of pixel.

The fpsVR tool will tell you exactly what is limiting you (CPU or GPU)