Fokker E III ?

[vangel]

Hello, I'm not really impressed with the upcoming Planes in FC II. More like dissappointed. Shouldn't the famous Fokker E.III Eindecker (or models I,II or IV) be in the game? Or the contemporary  Nieuport 11 or Airco DH.2?

[No.23_Gaylion]

Because it's spring 1918.

[Vig]

We will never have Taubes or E.1's because the audience is not sophisticated enough for that.  They want Wunderwaffen.

[No.23_Starling]

FC is porting birds from RoF and we had the Eindecker plus DH2 in the 1916 plane sets there. The issue however is that the 1916 planeset is somewhat ‘balanced’, when the DH2 should dominate its main opponent and even stand a chance vs the early Albis in a horizontal fight.

 

Id love to see vol 3 with ports of unit earlier birds so long as a we saw some FM tweaking. My dream would be the very early war birds. Oddly, RoF was missing one of the most important if awful Brit planes, the Be2

[JD007]

Would really like to see the Eindeckers too, perhaps they could be included in an early air war pack or at least as a collector's release.

 

[BTTWJetJaguar]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the Eindeckers and DH2s.  Early WW1 stuff is what really drew me to RoF and are the planes I had most fun in.

[BMA_West]

While you guys are at it why not also make our Belgian Frog side happy with some Morne-Saulnier parasol mono's pretty please ?

Some were in use with the British too;
And options do not always need that end war hyperbole ?

Edited November 7, 2021 by West

[No.23_Starling]

2 hours ago, West said:

While you guys are it why not also make our Belgian Frog side happy with some Morne-Saulnier parasol mono's pretty please ?

Some were in use with the British too;
And options do not always need that end war hyperbole ?

I think Wings Over Flanders Fields has all these birds if you need a Morane fix in single player

[Sandinourcoffee6]

My fav plane in ROF,no throttle version?

I hope we do get flying circus v3 and the early planes great fun

[Avimimus]

On 11/6/2021 at 4:41 PM, vangel said:

Hello, I'm not really impressed with the upcoming Planes in FC II. More like dissappointed. Shouldn't the famous Fokker E.III Eindecker (or models I,II or IV) be in the game? Or the contemporary  Nieuport 11 or Airco DH.2?

 

They might start showing up in FC3... or might appear if we get FC4. In many ways it'd make sense for FC3 to be 1917 centred (as that would create a more continuous planeset, with FC4 having 1916 aircraft - assuming it happens...) However, some of the Rise of Flight aircraft from that period are float-planes and the planned FC3 map doesn't include the channel... which makes it look like they'll have to go earlier.

 

The big problem with the E.III is that there is a shortage of Entente two-seater that are slow enough to make good targets (hopefully, a lower engine power version of the Sopwith Strutter will be added - or they'll add a new aircraft for that purpose). If they do 40 aircraft by FC4 there will be an opening for one more aircraft by the end (as RoF has ~38)... something like a Morane L would be good - as it could act as a slow two-seater for both sides.

 

So, hmm... around FC3 time it might be worth mentioning the need for a slower Strutter or a new slower two-seater?

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

I agree that WOFF is best if you're interested in the period when the E.III was dominant (early BE2s, Morane Ls, etc.). Also covered are variations such as the Bristol scout with angle-mounted Lewis gun, Nieuport 10 single seater, etc. ROF picks up after the Fokker Scourge had ended with the rise of the Nieuport 11 and Airco DH2. The FE2b two-seater is not a bad match up with the E.III if you're looking for a 2-seater in ROF. But it's correct that if you want to go back further, explore WOFF.

[OG_NickNack68]

I agree that WOFF is full of planes of all stripes and I've bought every update but can't seem to get into it with the old graphic and sound look and feel of it. After playing ROF and FC it's very underwhelming to me.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

5 minutes ago, OG_NickNack68 said:

I agree that WOFF is full of planes of all stripes and I've bought every update but can't seem to get into it with the old graphic and sound look and feel of it. After playing ROF and FC it's very underwhelming to me.

I thought the sounds in WOFF is better than in ROF and FC. Maybe it's the between heaven and earth up grade. Graphics aren't great no but the clouds look like a dark and dreary oil paintings to me which is kind of cool in it's own right. Kind of puts you in that war mood. 

[OG_NickNack68]

Whoa whoa Klugermann! I'm not messing with no refer addicts!

43 minutes ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

I thought the sounds in WOFF is better than in ROF and FC. Maybe it's the between heaven and earth up grade. Graphics aren't great no but the clouds look like a dark and dreary oil paintings to me which is kind of cool in it's own right. Kind of puts you in that war mood. 

I agree about the skies and maybe I didn't have the sound set right. I'll have to go back and give it a try again. I spent the money on it when the heaven and hell version came out and it didn't seem any better. Maybe I missed something and it's worth another look cause I really love those early war birds!

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, OG_NickNack68 said:

Whoa whoa Klugermann! I'm not messing with no refer addicts!

I agree about the skies and maybe I didn't have the sound set right. I'll have to go back and give it a try again. I spent the money on it when the heaven and hell version came out and it didn't seem any better. Maybe I missed something and it's worth another look cause I really love those early war birds!

I actually have trouble getting WOFF to run, probably some setting I have wrong but I watch R.Talbots youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Sgb-R3hAMsigr6-Ik9cow/videos . 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

The early war settings tend to draw a small but loyal following, not enough though to entice developers to go back to the earliest days. Richthofen's Skies tried an early war multiplayer plane set, featuring the Morane N (Hotchkiss gun and deflectors), Fokker EIII (synchronized), Bleriot (free-look and shotgun/pistol), and Nieuport XI (overwing Lewis). It had a few takers but the game ultimately died. 

 

ROF does offer some good battles from the end of the Fokker period, and still has a pretty good flight model overall. There is some MP going still, but the numbers aren't large these days. I still play it on occasion, and the early war stuff is a lot of fun. I'm a big fan of the Nieuport XI and the FE2b.

 

WOFF, you have to get used to the flight model being derived from the old CFS3 engine. It has come a long, long way from the CFS3 days, and the newest version is an excellent single player campaign game. But it still has a kind of static feel compared to ROF and FC. What WOFF does best is bring the whole historical environment of the war to life. This is still the best option if you want to jump into the shoes the of an aviator in, say 1915. Flight model imperfect as it is, the game brings the war to life in a way that has not yet been matched by any simulator. I think the game is somewhat underappreciated because of the CFS3 flight model lineage, but what the developers did there in terms of dynamic campaign and historical detail really is an achievement.

Edited November 10, 2021 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[Guest deleted@219798]

I'd like to see early period planes, at least 1916, I doubt if we'll get much earlier than that. I'd rather see planes like the Siemens-Shuckert and Fokker DVIII, both of which were only made in small numbers and were in service for a short time as collectors planes. Better to have mainstream planes included in the FC regular sets.

[Monostripezebra]

I kinda feel you... I mean, while it on one hand makes absoulte sense, gameplay wise, to focus on 1918 and flesh that out rather then going through all the weird and wonderfull WW1 aircraft developments, the old and very early aircraft in RoF where super fun and something special. 

 

nothing was ever fun like flying some D.H.2s in RoF, but in the end its probably too niche.

[itsmecamille]

The Eindecker was definitely one of my favourite planes in ROF, so was the Nieup 11, and I wish I could fly them in VR in FC at some point. I'd certainly go for them as collector planes. Not sure we'll get them in FC3 - it seems there would still be plenty of popular 1917 planes to cover (at least if we get the Nieuport 17 one of my favourite planes will be cover, and the Alb DII would nice too)

[Guest deleted@219798]

Really love to see Roland 2 seater, Halberstadt, Albatros DII and DIII and Entente planes from the same period.

[=IRFC=Gascan]

Pretty sure they'll be porting most or all o the planes from RoF to FC eventually, so you can take a look there to see what may be coming down the pipe in FC3 or beyond. The early Nieuports (11 and French, British, and Russian variants of the 17), Sopwiths (Pup and Strutter, including 1- and 2-seat versions), and Albatross (D.II early and late, and D.III) are all standouts, plus some two-seaters (Roland C.II, FE2B, RE8). There's more early stuff, including the Fokker E.III, Halberstadt D.II, DH-2, but it would be nice to get a few more planes to really give a better selection like the BE2. The planned collector planes give me some hope that we may see more new planes, especially for the E.III to hunt.

[PatrickAWlson]

@gascan Beat me to it.  There are something like 39 planes in RoF and they are generally working backwards from 1918.  Some variants that were separate planes in RoF have been combined in FC (D7 and D7f, SPAD VII early and late).   I have no inside knowledge, but on the assumption that this continues, we might have FC3 and then FC4.

 

FC3:

N17

Pup

Hanriot HD1

RE8

Sopwith Strutter

Alb D3

Alb D2 Late (maybe early and late like we got with the SPAD VII)

Some surprises

 

FC4:

N11

Dh2

FE2

EIII

Halb D2

Roland CLII

Some surprises

[migmadmarine]

I'd long assumed Vol 4 would be dedicated to the Channel, since the Normandy map will be out which would hopefully help with the implementation of the channel map, but I think I like your interpretation better pat. The number of remaining aircraft is awkward to break up into sets of ten, but splitting it in half like that and adding more new ones (while it would mean waiting longer for some of the early aircraft) would make for a nice approach. 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

The other thing to keep in mind is that even if one assumes everything is ported, it may not be the same plane you remember. We have planes already ported over that behave very differently from what they were in ROF. The E.III you get in FC may not behave as it did in ROF. The SE5a and Spad VII 180 have been ugly surprises compared to what they were in ROF. Then there's the other end of the spectrum with planes that previously seemed balanced in ROF absorbing massive numbers of bullets in FC without much effect. Supposedly the same aircraft being represented, but wild differences between the games. Just have to temper the expectations, I guess. I'm really pulling for the E.III, Nieuport 11 and FE2b.

Edited November 18, 2021 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[PatrickAWlson]

17 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Filling in the surprises since mindless speculation is fun.  I like NFL mock drafts too.  They are about as useful.  Some of the planes like the LVG fill gaps not in their time period.  Notice that all of my "surprises" are two seaters.  

 

FC3:

N17

Hanriot HD1

Pup

RE8

Sopwith Strutter

Alb D3

Alb D2 Late (maybe early and late like we got with the SPAD VII)

Rumpler C.V  Because we need German two seaters

LVG CV - DFW works for this time frame.  Germans have no late war recon.

Salmson 2a2 - Again, filling in missing late war planes here.  Breguet was a bomber.

 

FC4:

N11

Dh2

FE2

EIII

Halb D2

Roland CLII

Albatros C.III Germans need an early war two seater.

BE2c Iconic British recon

Farman F.40 French need an early two seater.  Used well into 1917, much to the dismay of its crews .

Morane Saulnier L lots of these built.  Used as fighters and as recon

 

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

I would love to see all the planes from RoF return, or at least, as many as practical.

 

The N.11 is probably my hands-down favorite Entente scout for dogfighting in RoF, the incessant Lewis gun jams notwithstanding. Have some truly wonderful memories from many years of flying that little beauty.

 

The N.17 was another favorite, even though it was something of an ugly duckling in RoF. I still enjoyed it and did OK with it, though it wasn't on the same standard as the N.11. Always suspected it was probably better in IRL than in RoF; who knows, maybe if it comes to FC it will get a glow-up?

 

The rest of the 1915-1916 planes were great, too, but those were definitely some favorites, and I will be here ready to splash out the moment they are announced for FC!

[SeaW0lf]

2 hours ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

The N.17 was another favorite, even though it was something of an ugly duckling in RoF. I still enjoyed it and did OK with it, though it wasn't on the same standard as the N.11.

 

I flew the N11 extensively till 2015. It was my go to early plane. Then I'm flying the N17 a lot since 2017. We don't have blue vs reds anymore in ROF, so it is hard to compare, but my sense is that the N11 is more responsive, maneuverable, but the N17 has a better / tighter sustained turn and climbs better, have a better zoom climb. But they are both good rotaries for dogfights. In other words, if I had the chance I would chose the N17 all day, which is why nowadays I tend to fly the N17 over the N11 every time I have the chance (unless for crowd balance reasons). But she's harder to fly, I admit, but she delivers when asked right. 

 

I can’t say about high altitude flying because ROF is reduced to low level flying in multiplayer, but I think the N17 will do OK against the Albies and Halbs, perhaps even the D.VII Vanilla. If I recall correctly I flew with her a few times on Syndicate, which was a high altitude server, and I was choosing the N17 already to have fun. And Chill’s engines would pose a question mark on the N17 max speed, but that’s another ball of wax.

[migmadmarine]

Regarding Pat's Hypothetical lineup and statement of the Bregeut being a bomber, were they historically not used for photo recon/artillery spotting much?

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, migmadmarine said:

Regarding Pat's Hypothetical lineup and statement of the Bregeut being a bomber, were they historically not used for photo recon/artillery spotting much?

 

They were used extensively for recon and artillery correction. Also, in American bomber units, one plane would trail the main formation and photograph the results of the bombing. 

[ST_Catchov]

17 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Morane Saulnier L lots of these built.  Used as fighters and as recon

 

I've always loved the Parasol although I don't trust monoplanes. It ain't natural. But she's cute. The Morane Bullet's not bad either albeit another crazy monoplane type. Deflector plates anyone? But this is early war. We might have to wait years if it happens at all. 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

The BE2 would be a nice inclusion because of how much action it saw. And the Morane L would be an interesting early 2-seater.

 

Most of the sims I have played, RS and WOFF aside (and a nod to the original Red Baron if you selected the 1915 early campaign), basically start with the end of the Eindecker era. It's usually E.III vs DH2 and Nieuport, maybe FE2b to start. It would be interesting in a modern MP sim to take things back one more step to when the Eindecker was truly dominant, facing mainly Farmans, BE2s, and the Morane aircraft. Not the best time for allied pilots, but the dawn of aerial combat still and worth exploring.

Edited November 19, 2021 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[PatrickAWlson]

9 minutes ago, NO.20_Krispy_Duck said:

The BE2 would be a nice inclusion because of how much action it saw. And the Morane L would be an interesting early 2-seater.

 

Most of the sims I have played, RS and WOFF aside (and a nod to the original Red Baron if you selected the 1915 early campaign), basically start with the end of the Eindecker era. It's usually E.III vs DH2 and Nieuport, maybe FE2b to start. It would be interesting in a modern MP sim to take things back one more step to when the Eindecker was truly dominant, facing mainly Farmans, BE2s, and the Morane aircraft. Not the best time for allied pilots, but the dawn of aerial combat still and worth exploring.

 

Way back in the day I did the Western Front Patch for Red Baron.  We modeled the Farman, Morane L, and others.  Even had a Pfalz Eindecker.  In the end we had over 100 aircraft types in RB3D.  Those early Eindecker campaigns were fun.