Developer Diary, Part XXIII

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

Remember .. we still do not know what the final release will be like.. so all this weeping and gnashing of teeth is for naught at the moment.. How many times and in how many different ways can you (a general you) say.. "I think this is a bad idea for MP!"

 

I think they get that.. Let's just see what happens..

 

Bearcat I think you have to respect that these are new posters to the thread. Everyone has their turn to voice their opinion even though they're pretty much repeating a particular opinion. I understand what you are saying and I agree but you're going to repeat yourself just as many times when someone shares a similar view to others. 

[Bearcat]

I do respect that.. and I understand the need to "get it out" but I dunno...maybe I am just an anomaly.. but when I read a thread where 7 or 8 people have alrready said what I want to say I just pass... but that's me...  The last thing I want to do is restrict feedback or stifle dialog..

[JG13_opcode]

The last thing I want to do is restrict feedback or stifle dialog..

And yet here you are, deriding perfectly legitimate concerns as "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Rather condescending.

 

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement. You'll forgive us if we don't take it on faith that our concerns are being heard.

 

Nobody has come and said "Hey, we understand your concerns and we're thinking about it. Stay tuned." so it feels like everyone's comments are falling on deaf or willfully ignorant ears.

 

 

How many posts have Jason and Zak made in this thread but no mention of "Hey, we realize that forcing you to grind singleplayer missions so that you can use unlocks in multiplayer will be boring for some of you. We'll consider it"?

Edited July 8, 2013 by JG13Doggles

[AndyJWest]

 

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement.

 

 

Really? Compared to who?

[Feathered_IV]

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement.

What? I would have said no other flight sim developer even comes close to the level of involvement by this team and its RoF division.

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement. 

 

I have to disagree, they've been bloody fantastic. 

Edited July 8, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[Bearcat]

And yet here you are, deriding perfectly legitimate concerns as "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Rather condescending.

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement. You'll forgive us if we don't take it on faith that our concerns are being heard.

Nobody has come and said "Hey, we understand your concerns and we're thinking about it. Stay tuned." so it feels like everyone's comments are falling on deaf or willfully ignorant ears.

How many posts have Jason and Zak made in this thread but no mention of "Hey, we realize that forcing you to grind singleplayer missions so that you can use unlocks in multiplayer will be boring for some of you. We'll consider it"?

 

I won't comment much on the rest of your post .. but the highlighted part is just flat out wrong. THIS development team actually has a pretty good rep as it did not exist before this so there is nothing you can base that assumption on. As for the rest of your post .. I am not going to get into a personal debate with you and if you want to do that with me I suggest you take it to a PM because this thread is not the place for it.

[JG13_opcode]

Really? Compared to who?

Compared to just about any other reputable software developer? Look at the Arma 3 development that someone else mentioned in another thread.

[Mac_Messer]

Unlockables for offline play, I get the idea. Could be interesting.

 

Online, not at all.

 

First off, online wars evolved to a point where an unlockables system would defeat the purpose of a historical campaign altoghether.

We can implement just about anything in an online war. Which squad has what resources, which base has stron or weak or no defenses at all. But it is not run by an unlockables system but by a system that evaluates the situation on the front. No unlockables system is needed here. Sure the gunpods or droptanks could be unavailable at the moment you set for a mission, but not for the reason of them not being unlocked, but becase :

a) those were not available historically at all

or

b) there are not enough resources to fit one/fice/any planes from the flight.

 

Unlockables system just messes it up because it is contradictory to what old IL2 online wars have managed. By applying the unlcokables to online play you just throw it out like it never existed. But what the devs should understand is that the concepts that have been worked over ten years of IL2 online gaming deserve a place in BoS, moreover people just assume that it will be there.

 

And for the record, no, you can`t have an unlockables system contradict what squads do themselves right. It is obvious that the better, more succesful (but foremost - most experienced) pilots get the better hardware and are given a choice. Because they will probably use it better. Contrary to what some of here guys said, a Bf109G2 fitted with gunpods in IL2 was just as much danger in the right hands and not just a target for the escort fighters. Because it was a great fighter, with lots of power to spare.

And so, the squads have their own chain of command, higher officers and whatnot. Let THEM decide which pilot chooses what and not the unlockables system, ok? I`m used to choose my loadout, because I am known to be a successful fighter pilot. As long as the situation on the front (both : dynamic and historical) allows it, I get what I want, because my flight benefits from me having the better hardware. And it is not just my choice - it is given to me by the squad, both the superiors and subalterns. The squads should be allowed to judge the situation on their own and choose what they want, not some unlockables system. It would be what it sounds like - a backstep to the whole online play people are used to. And before someone tries to imply I want to get all the newest hardware for myself - well in the old IL2 Luftwaffe had to provide escort for the Ju87 against IL2s fitted with 20mm. We did it with only 15mm fitted Bf109F2 or MGFF fitted Bf109E7. Because the 190F4 was not available at the time. So the historical thing is the most important as it often goes two ways - you either have better hardware or you have none. If my squad stationed at the base that had gunpods available for 3 aircraft then my squad should have them available at the moment. And my squad superiors will decide which pilots get them, not some unlockables system.  

[Heywooood]

Sir, it won't take long until you'll be offered an opportunity to try it out. I know it's best to evaluate something when you can actually touch it, so I perfectly understand a bit of scepticism you or any other experienced virtual pilot may have.

 

well - thats encouraging - can I be offered an early opportunity to try it out also?

either way - its good news...lol

 

Can the 1CGS crew give an example of the unlockable mod system....how is it envisioned that you will implement the aircraft upgrades?

If a new engine is needed due to fatigue or poor management - can the pilot spend awarded points for enemy planes downed or perfect landings?

Is proper technique in formation flying to be rewarded?

If an armament change becomes available for a squadron based on the historical date of its r/l availability can it be aquired through either redeeming of points acrued? or purchased? 

How will this affect MP?

Are the player accounts seperate - I would have an online login and an offline one - like in ROF? 'mods on' vs 'mods off' ?

To keep the online 'competition' fair? 

In short - is there anything more that you can tell us about this feature? or is it still in the air?

 

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Holy crap Doggles, get over yourself mate. There are seriously about 10 people who have expressed displeasure. And let's not forget that the entire thing hasn't even been explained. But the best part is that because YOU have said so the devs must reconsider the entire thing.

 

I for one think its a fun idea that will provide incentive for me to enjoy the full offering of the new title. So by your logic. I forbid any reconsideration of the idea. You see how silly that all sounds. How about you and all others quit with the sky is falling threads and just wait and see. I know that might be tough for yours it seems that without something to compIain about you would be comparing about that.

 

Everyone just fricken chill out. They know what they are doing and have demonstrated already that they value community input. THE ENTIRE community, not just the righteous few.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Hooves

[smink1701]

"This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement. You'll forgive us if we don't take it on faith that our concerns are being heard."

 

[Jaws2002]

 

 

Holy crap Doggles, get over yourself mate. There are seriously about 10 people who have expressed displeasure. And let's not forget that the entire thing hasn't even been explained. But the best part is that because YOU have said so the devs must reconsider the entire thing.

I for one think its a fun idea that will provide incentive for me to enjoy the full offering of the new title. So by your logic. I forbid any reconsideration of the idea. You see how silly that all sounds. How about you and all others quit with the sky is falling threads and just wait and see. I know that might be tough for yours it seems that without something to com,Ian about you would be comparing about that.

Everyone just fricken chill out. They know what they are doing and have demonstrated already that they value community input. THE ENTIRE community, not just the righteous few.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

This was posted in the latest news:

 

 

For many of them, pilots will not only get special badges and insignia, but also rewards like more points and other specific content. An example of this would be aircraft camouflage skins. Every regiment will have its specific camouflage - exactly the same they used to have in the war, but you'll be allowed to put on a different one when you earn it. Such individual skin won't be absolutely voluntary, you will not be able to draw Mickey Mouse and etc. but be sure that we'll pick the most original and eye-catching camo patterns of real pilot in the history of the Battle. And every time another pilot sees you on the multiplayer server they will know you by those hard challenges you've came thru to earn this or that camo.

 

 

 

Please explain me what would be the benefit to force people to unlock skins. In both, IL-2 line of games and ROF, custom skins are a big part of what makes the games enjoyable for all players. If they make the skins unlockable, that means the whole skinning part of the game is dead.  

 War Thunder has this "feature" and it blows. You can buy everything you want to make you more deadly. I bought my way through five "levels" in ten seconds. I got myself a later war monster (FW-190D13), with upgraded engine, upgraded guns and ammo, fast reload and a lot of other crap. Now if I wanted to use a custom skin, available in game, for a1937 plane (He-112) I had to get 50 kills in it first!

    Now please tell me the logic here, because I don't see one.

 

The problems with 1C, as I see it, is that because some arcade "pay to win" type games they have are financially successful, they try to export all the "features" from those games to this new title. Some things are ok, but, in my opinion, not everything in those games is a money making feature and in many cases will have the opposing effect. Drive people away.

 I think the development team should oppose this idea in some cases and the skins is one area that shouldn't be killed off with a retarded unlockable system.

 

 

So, before you jump to tell everyone to chill out, please tell me if that idea makes sense for you

 

Edited July 9, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Bearcat]

Guys we need to really ratchet this down a few notches.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I guess the benefit of unlocking skins would be the satisfaction of doing so! I beleive you aren't going to get to buy your uber plane as all the planes come with the one purchase. Not like rof or WT. You are assuming to much by asserting that the turning of a battle will rely on your unlocks. I promise u that these aren't as big of a deal as you are thinking. A stock what ever is going to be as deadly as a modded whatever.

 

 

I suggest you Just wait and see. There is so much more tbat this sim is going to offer. Blowing your stack on this tiny aspect is a little premature.

[von_Tom]

Sooooo to summarise the update, starting with unlocks first:

 

1.  The new game will feature an unlock path linked to achieiving certain criteria in the single player campaign.

 

2.  The unlocks are historical rather than fantasy power ups.

 

3.  Full details of unlocks are not yet known but may include field modifications eg armour removal, droptanks and certain weapon sets.  The unlocks are likely to have historical strengths and weaknesses.

 

4.  The precise criteria to obtain an unlock is not yet known though a general outline has been given.  Higher difficulty settings can lead to greater reward for the same achievements.

 

5.  The unlocks cannot be bought.

 

6.  The aircraft list and weapons available has not yet been disclosed so it is not known if the unlocks are really important or not.

 

7.  Some are in favour because they see this as a "reward" path for those that enjoy single player and it is seen as a mechanism for the developers to keep interest in the game and to bring the rewards to allow expansions/add-ons.

 

8.  Some are against unlocks because:

 

a)  They are seen as "power-ups" i.e. non-historical performance boosters.

b)  If they buy the game they should have access to everything.

c)  It may restrict scenarios in online play.

d)  It may prevent squad-based play because of dissimilar unlocked planesets or weapons loadouts.

e)  They do not want to have the "grind" of earning the unlocks.

f)   This feature has no place in flight/combat simulators.

g)  Custom skins are important and without the facility to change skins at will (i.e. without unlocking them) a lot of enjoyment will be lost as will a skinning community.

 

8.  Dedicated server software will be available.

 

9.  Game servers will not be central and will be orgaised and operated by players.

 

10.  The FMB will allow players to make their own online missions.

 

11.  Servers can allow the players' stats to count towards their profile or not though there are restrictions on server settinsg for this to work.  In either scenario only plans bought or unlocks/skins gained via the SP campaign can be used.

 

12.  A video has been released that shows cockpit opening/closing with corresponding sound escalation and a LaGG peeling off with no discernable LOD issues.

 

 

Editorial:

 

I'm a cynic so take this as a cynical view and as the view of someone who likes the unlocks idea...

 

Unlocks will allow peope to game the game.  There are many examples of people gaming flight sims with historical examples include taking as little fuel as possible, using drop tanks to allow as little on-board fuel to be used as possible, using rockets in air-to-air combat etc. I've done all of these things...  Really the online missions created by the developers should use fixed loadouts that are historically limited/correct but this would really antagonise some.

 

We don't know the full story yet for me it's as if there's a witch-hunt in progress, in part fueled by our past experiences with CloD. A lot of comments have strayed beyond the realms of the update and into a sideswipe at the developers that in my opinion just isn't justified.  I get the vibe from these forums that it's like a throw back to the good ol' IL2 days but with a vein of CloD running through it that is like the unpleasant feeling of great food with a nasty aftertaste.

 

Love and hugs to all

 

Hood

 

Edit:  I like custom skins but not at the expense of server download/lag problems.  I really can't see home made skins not being available.  It's just that if you unlock Trautloft's skin then you can use it and everyone will figure out that you've unlocked it.  It won't grant super powers or improve a person's individual skill set, it's just a skin.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Hood

[=LD=dhyran]

G'Day everyone

 

very impressive sound test video!

 

Looking forward to this one! Can't wait to fly it!

[FlatSpinMan]

That seemed a pretty thorough summary to me, Hood.

 

To all members, please feel free to post your thoughts but just go easy. Insulting the devs and other members achieves nothing good and will merely result in the offending parts being edited out.

[falstaff]

JG13Doggles said:

 

 

This development team has a reputation for bad community involvement. You'll forgive us if we don't take it on faith that our concerns are being heard.

 

 

Eh? You seem to be confusing this dev team with the Clod dev team. I can't think of any other explanation.

 

Your concerns have been heard. Many times now. We share some of them. So do the Mods in certain respects.

 

Even if the devs were to accept some of the anxiety, and agree with some points (who says that they don't? We are still not in a position to make wholesale judgements) then it would *still* takr a while to formulate a reponse and consider whether any changes are necessary. It can't be instant knee-jerk whatever happens.

 

The idea that this dev team has crap communications is ludicrous, simply ridiculous. Even moreso when you think what 4-or-5-string-strum has gone on before.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Sooooo to summarise the update, starting with unlocks first:

 

1.  The new game will feature an unlock path linked to achieiving certain criteria in the single player campaign.

 

2.  The unlocks are historical rather than fantasy power ups.

 

3.  Full details of unlocks are not yet known but may include field modifications eg armour removal, droptanks and certain weapon sets.  The unlocks are likely to have historical strengths and weaknesses.

 

4.  The precise criteria to obtain an unlock is not yet known though a general outline has been given.  Higher difficulty settings can lead to greater reward for the same achievements.

 

5.  The unlocks cannot be bought.

 

6.  The aircraft list and weapons available has not yet been disclosed so it is not known if the unlocks are really important or not.

 

7.  Some are in favour because they see this as a "reward" path for those that enjoy single player and it is seen as a mechanism for the developers to keep interest in the game and to bring the rewards to allow expansions/add-ons.

 

8.  Some are against unlocks because:

 

a)  They are seen as "power-ups" i.e. non-historical performance boosters.

b)  If they buy the game they should have access to everything.

c)  It may restrict scenarios in online play.

d)  It may prevent squad-based play because of dissimilar unlocked planesets or weapons loadouts.

e)  They do not want to have the "grind" of earning the unlocks.

f)   This feature has no place in flight/combat simulators.

g)  Custom skins are important and without the facility to change skins at will (i.e. without unlocking them) a lot of enjoyment will be lost as will a skinning community.

 

8.  Dedicated server software will be available.

 

9.  Game servers will not be central and will be orgaised and operated by players.

 

10.  The FMB will allow players to make their own online missions.

 

11.  Servers can allow the players' stats to count towards their profile or not though there are restrictions on server settinsg for this to work.  In either scenario only plans bought or unlocks/skins gained via the SP campaign can be used.

 

12.  A video has been released that shows cockpit opening/closing with corresponding sound escalation and a LaGG peeling off with no discernable LOD issues.

 

 

Thats a great Sum up Hood.  I +'s you one.  That felt like a nice deep breath that everyone should take right about now.

 

as far as the Skin conversation goes.  I doubt it will kill the skinning community, after all, I believe its going to be very much like RoF in that Dept.  And skinners do it for love of the craft.  Im sure it will make it in.  And I promise one of the first ones will have a Mickey Mouse on it just to playfully spite the mods!

[BraveSirRobin]

 

8.  Some are against unlocks because:

 

b)  They are seen as "power-ups" i.e. non-historical performance boosters.

c)  If they buy the game they should have access to everything.

d)  It may restrict scenarios in online play.

e)  It may prevent squad-based play because of dissimilar unlocked planesets or weapons loadouts.

f)  They do not want to have the "grind" of earning the unlocks.

g)   This feature has no place in flight/combat simulators.

h)  Custom skins are important and without the facility to change skins at will (i.e. without unlocking them) a lot of enjoyment will be lost as will a skinning community.

 

 

a)  many online players have no interest in flying in SP campaigns

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I have no interest in flying offline either, luckily I have a good enough internet connection that I have no reason to, and dislike flying against AI.Each to their own though.

if the devs have made up their minds that unlocks are in, and I believe they have, then thats that, and no point mentioning it, if its seen as weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Just say everything is perfect and we love it all. The outside views of the planes do look very nice.Is that the same camera movement thats been used in RoF for a few years?

I assume everything,like the ground etc, is WiP so its difficult to comment on that.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JG52Uther

[707shap_Srbin]

Mates.

About unlocks and other stuff - stop your burning fire.

Devs did not revealed ALL info about this. Just wait two weeks next DevDia, please.

 

Trust me, all will be fine.

Edited July 9, 2013 by =KAG=Bersrk

[I/JG27_Rollo]

Sooooo to summarise the update, starting with unlocks first:

 

1.  The new game will feature an unlock path linked to achieiving certain criteria in the single player campaign.

[...]

It might not even be a linear path of updates.

As far as I remember interpreting the update we might have an unordered set of unlocks that we can freely choose from.

 

Which I would greatly prefer over a linear progression system.

 

Let's just assume for this post that the unlocks encompass not only the funny stuff like removable head armor plates, fancy skins etc. but also essential stuff like drop tanks, gun pods, some bombs and rockets.

And let's also assume that the first few unlocks can be achieved relatively easily and quickly. (I'm pretty certain that the devs will not have us "grind" for 70 hours to get a drop tank.)

 

So the sensible thing to do would be to choose the essential unlocks (e.g. drop tanks + gun pods) from the first few easily achievable points by flying a couple of missions and BAM - you're good to go for any MP situation.

 

(Of course that would not solve anything for people who won't touch SP with a 60ft pole...)

 

 

But until we get more information on this it's all just speculation anyway and since we're at least 8 months from release nothing should be set in stone yet. (Except maybe that we will be flying German and Soviet aircraft over the Stalingrad area...)

Edited July 9, 2013 by I/JG27_Rollo

[Jaws2002]

I guess the benefit of unlocking skins would be the satisfaction of doing so! I beleive you aren't going to get to buy your uber plane as all the planes come with the one purchase. Not like rof or WT. You are assuming to much by asserting that the turning of a battle will rely on your unlocks. I promise u that these aren't as big of a deal as you are thinking. A stock what ever is going to be as deadly as a modded whatever.

 

 

I suggest you Just wait and see. There is so much more tbat this sim is going to offer. Blowing your stack on this tiny aspect is a little premature.

What satisfaction? Do you find it fun to unlock skins based on someone's else ideas of witch skin deserves how many "head shots"?

Where do customs skins made by the talented skiners that made skins for Il-2 and ROF fit in this new idea? That's right, they don't belong anywhere. This whole segment of the game is to be killed off in order to make the provided skins appealing......like in War thunder.

 

Sorry but you are just blindly agreeing with anything.

[707shap_Srbin]

Where do customs skins made by the talented skiners that made skins for Il-2 and ROF fit in this new idea?

 

 

Do Your really talented skin. Sent to Devs. They will include it into official pack.

Thats easy, bro.

 

Peace!

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Will there be planes with fantasy skins flying over Stalingrad or will it just be historical?

[707shap_Srbin]

Official Skinpacks will contain (as far as I know) only historical skins, based on extremly deep research of skinmakers and historyans (NO bs green acids of CanonUK & Ko).

 

 

No personal (anime or other custom) or fantasy skins.

 

Anyway, it must be confirmed by devs.

Edited July 9, 2013 by =KAG=Bersrk

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Thanks Bersrk, I would only like to see historical skins in the great patriotic war.

[707shap_Srbin]

It would be as high as this level and even better:

I mean skins from Devs would be on the level of the top talented skinners.

 

P.S. Uther, dude, I remember You from AFW (=BY= war) times! Nice to see old damn scool Luftwaffe opponents here

Edited July 9, 2013 by =KAG=Bersrk

[csThor]

@ KAG_Bersrk

 

Sorry for latching on to the OT strand here but if you speak of "acid green" then I hope you're not going to use the colour palette for the Luftwaffe that I've seen in many many russian-made LW skins, either. My standard of quality here is what Cpt Farrel does.

[707shap_Srbin]

Cpt Farrel Use good colors, but (I may mistake - I saw only his old skins) he sometime misses the correct schemes.

 

Canon - I mean this man.

 

Mate - what palette of RLMdo You use?

 

Edit: Yep, saw Cpt Farrels skins for CloD - very nice. No Bf110 but Bf109s are good.

Edited July 9, 2013 by =KAG=Bersrk

[71st_AH_Hooves]

What satisfaction? Do you find it fun to unlock skins based on someone's else ideas of witch skin deserves how many "head shots"?

Where do customs skins made by the talented skiners that made skins for Il-2 and ROF fit in this new idea? That's right, they don't belong anywhere. This whole segment of the game is to be killed off in order to make the provided skins appealing......like in War thunder.

 

Sorry but you are just blindly agreeing with anything.

Hey man be sure to bring out your big umbrella, I heard those chunks of sky hurt when they hit you. 

 

I enjoy a challenge and enjoy rewards for accomplishing said challenge.  I look for a game to be entertaining, and allow myself to be temporarily taken to somewhere else for a little bit. Who are you to tell me what is fun and what is not?  And as far as BLINDLY agreeing, you dont even know all the info about what is REALLY going to go on, but you readily dash any plans that don't agree with your elite vision of what the game should encompass or deliver.  You literally don't have the info, talk about blind.   This is not going to be War Thunder by the way, and you know how I know?  I CAN READ.

 

Skins aren't going to be pouring out of the SP into MP,  and if its anything like RoF  there are Packs that others have created that you can download for free to use in your clan.   I know why don't we WAIT AND SEE. 

[csThor]

Don't have that template here anymore but it's something that evolved over time. Farrel uses a template that he also used for the german texture pack that came with 4.10 or 4.11 for 1946.

 

EDIT: I found a version but I think it's an early one. IIRC it evolved further during discussion within TD and with Cpt Farrels. RLM Color Chart.zip

Edited July 9, 2013 by csThor

[gavagai]

8.  Some are against unlocks because:

 

f)   This feature has no place in flight/combat simulators.

 

That is my gut reaction.  I like flight simulators because it is all about the aircraft, its systems, and learning to think through its operation in a facsimile of a real world combat situation.  I accept that what I do is also known as playing a video game; I won't throw a fit if someone wants to call it that.  However, that doesn't mean that it can't be its own distinct genre that is free of the gimmicks of other video games.  

 

If someone really wanted to improve the combat flight sim experience for Il-2, they would study Falcon 4 and create a 24:7 campaign system that can accommodate both single and multiplayer combat.

 

Lastly, if it wasn't supposed to be discussed, then it should have never been posted.  All of the people telling others to be quiet because we don't know what the final product will be are missing the point of  a discussion forum.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

That is my gut reaction. I like flight simulators because it is all about the aircraft, its systems, and learning to think through its operation in a facsimile of a real world combat situation. I accept that what I do is also known as playing a video game; I won't throw a fit if someone wants to call it that. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be its own distinct genre that is free of the gimmicks of other video games.

 

If someone really wanted to improve the combat flight sim experience for Il-2, they would study Falcon 4 and create a 24:7 campaign system that can accommodate both single and multiplayer combat.

 

Lastly, if it wasn't supposed to be discussed, then it should have never been posted. All of the people telling others to be quiet because we don't know what the final product will be are missing the point of a discussion forum.

Discussing is one thing, blatently bashing the ideas without full information or full concept of the information, is another. And then to rehash the same argument over and over is insanity by definition.

 

 

There are things I would like done differently in BOS. For instance clickable pits. But I also understand and trust the team that gave me 1000 + hours of entertainment in their previous title, that thier decisions are for the best of the project. Its comforting to have faith. I'd just die if on top of my life I had to worry about a video game.

 

I do agree with you about falcon 4. Its campaign gen is awesome. But if that campaign encompassed the changing of equipment such as going from the lantirn to lightning pod where the deployed uhigh action units got to field them first. Wouldnt you want that accuratley portrayed? I would.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Hooves

[csThor]

That is my gut reaction.  I like flight simulators because it is all about the aircraft, its systems, and learning to think through its operation in a facsimile of a real world combat situation.  I accept that what I do is also known as playing a video game; I won't throw a fit if someone wants to call it that.  However, that doesn't mean that it can't be its own distinct genre that is free of the gimmicks of other video games. 

 

Quite honestly as a tool to enhance the offline campaign aspect it's perfectly okay - simply because it speaks of an interest in offline matters and gameplay that simply hasn't really been there for the past decade in the sims I played. However, and here I agree with the skeptics, it is simply a tool within the offline campaign and should not be transported into other aspects.

 

What I don't agree with, however, is the last sentence I quoted. This "puristic" approach has been all the rage for the past decade and it has had an IMO negative effect on sims as a whole. The result is a pauperization of gameplay especially in the offline segment as too much emphasis was placed on producing a gazilion of different aircraft types (and subtypes) while the players were left with campaigns that had the whiff of having been an afterthought. To me a well-designed offline campaign is still the most important showcase for what a sim can do and how much thought the designers put into the whole affair as an entertainment software.

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

Lastly, if it wasn't supposed to be discussed, then it should have never been posted.  All of the people telling others to be quiet because we don't know what the final product will be are missing the point of  a discussion forum.

 

I agree this needs to be discussed but what's annoying is the angry posters who are making a lot of assumptions which is boycotting the topic and completely blowing it out of proportion without any evidence. But what's even more annoying is people actaully keep replying to them! I'm with you on this one gavagai.

 

I share a genuine concern for the unlocking system but I haven't received enough info, neither has anyone else. 

 

So spend more time replying to others who actually have something sensible to say and ignore others with outrageous claims. Otherwise this thread may as well be closed.

Edited July 9, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[gavagai]

That's why I said that the Falcon 4 campaign system should be studied.  Have you ever tried a Falcon 4 campaign?  You can invite your friends to fly coop in the same campaign that you've been flying singleplayer.  I've never seen anything else that comes close.

[Laser]

That's why I said that the Falcon 4 campaign system should be studied.  Have you ever tried a Falcon 4 campaign?  You can invite your friends to fly coop in the same campaign that you've been flying singleplayer.  I've never seen anything else that comes close.

 

(hi gav)

 

Actually ... did anyone think why the devs want to use a SP feature also for MP? It could very well mean something along these lines, tighter integration of SP campaign with MP campaigns/coops.