Developer Diary, Part XXIII

[Feathered_IV]

There will be no onscreen messages.

 

Phew!  Thanks!!!

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

The thing is that many hardcore simmers acctually dont touch multiplayer. And many dont want to waste time with multiplayer.

 

It works both ways. Some don't want to waste time on singleplayer and some don't want to waste time on multiplayer. I can tell you now most hardcore combat simmers are mainly multiplayer orientated.

Edited July 5, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[Rama]

The campaign gameplay and awards system sounds interesting, however I personaly dont like the following point:

 

With global stats on or off, you'll be using only the planes and mods that you've obtained by purchasing the game or have unlocked by playing the Historical campaign

 

The thing is that many hardcore simmers acctually dont touch single player campaigns. This would be forcing many of the multiplayer only people to fly singleplayer campaing only to get the mods and skins. And many dont want to waste time with single player.

+1

I also dislike this choice for the same reasons.

[=IRFC=Jorri]

 

The thing is that many hardcore simmers acctually dont touch single player campaigns. This would be forcing many of the multiplayer only people to fly singleplayer campaing only to get the mods and skins. And many dont want to waste time with single player.

 

 

This. Very concerned about it.

[Feuerfalke]

Yup. This has always been my concern. It sounds interesting to some people, but it's a complete immersion killer for me.

 

"Comrad, where's your bazooka?"

 

"Sorry. Life got in the way last month. All I have is a pocket knife."

 

 

In real life you don't start as a green cadet and get your hands on the most deadly and complex weapons, unless you carry them to the persons using them.

Weapons and ammo don't grow on trees and if something was available in a limited number, it was given to the persons most skilled with them.

 

So this is not as arcade as you think.

 

 

We have vast experience in creating exciting systems allowing players to not only to fly together, but feel themselves as a part of a huge and live world too. We know that it's what most of you want. However we're unable to achieve that now and we hope to get to it if game launches successfully.

 

What does that mean? There will be no AI in Multiplayer-Servers? Or a very limited number of players?

 

The thing is that many hardcore simmers acctually dont touch single player campaigns. This would be forcing many of the multiplayer only people to fly singleplayer campaing only to get the mods and skins. And many dont want to waste time with single player.

 

Well said. I hope this is just a matter of misunderstanding.

[actionjoe]

With global stats on or off, you'll be using only the planes and mods that you've obtained by purchasing the game or have unlocked by playing the Historical campaign (game SKUs and pricing will be described later)

 

Most likely if server has mode "Global statistics OFF" then server hosters will decide this question about unlock mods independently.

 

Isn"t it a bit contradictory?

 

 

Weapons and ammo don't grow on trees and if something was available in a limited number, it was given to the persons most skilled with them.

 

Yes, but the system as I understand it now, doesn't reward the most skilled, only the people who play singleplayer.

[kestrel79]

Guys before you get all worried "OMG Thiz iz nots a simzz!!!1!!", can we just sit back and trust the devs on this? These guys made freakin Rise of Flight! They aren't gonna turn this into an arcade shooter. No doubt there will be options to make it more friendly for beginners but relax there will be game options to make this a very hardcore sim like we all want.

 

That video was awesome. The sounds were great. +1 to the guy who wants to hear the high pitch whistle when the window firsts opens this sounds cool. Also hearing wind through bullet holes would be amazing.

[Zak]

Isn"t it a bit contradictory?

In which part? Please, explain and I'll help you out with this

Yes, but the system as I understand it now, doesn't reward the most skilled, only the people who play singleplayer.

It offers user to play single player mission, it doesn't say a user is not skilled.

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

Guys before you get all worried , can we just sit back and trust the devs on this? These guys made freakin Rise of Flight! They aren't gonna turn this into an arcade shooter. No doubt there will be options to make it more friendly for beginners but relax there will be game options to make this a very hardcore sim like we all want.

 

That video was awesome. The sounds were great. +1 to the guy who wants to hear the high pitch whistle when the window firsts opens this sounds cool. Also hearing wind through bullet holes would be amazing.

 

"OMG Thiz iz nots a simzz!!!1!!" Hahaha well yeah OK some of us are freaking out (especially me) but I think every individual should be able to express their worst fears as it's the only real way to express them. 

 

+1 also to the high pitch whistle! 

Edited July 5, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[Bussard_x]

Question:

Is it possible that a 3rd company, like Desastersoft, brings add on to the market with missions, campaigns and skins?

Edited July 5, 2013 by Benz

[von_Tom]

All great.

 

The level up idea is great too. Any aircraft is deadly in the right hands and no field mods created a Tie fighter for either side. It's great to have something aimed at the single player element and which the multiplayer element can ignore if they want to - they have choice in the matter. The very best thing about this is that the unlocks can be obtained as a solo effort.

 

Speaking personally I'll be doing single player anyway but when i go into multiplayer I can't see myself removing head armour, using gun pods or using fuel tanks (as examples).

 

All round good.

 

Hood

 

 

 

 

ps. If I'm one of the experten I'll also use stock skins to hide that fact..

 

Hood

[actionjoe]

 

actionjoe, on 05 Jul 2013 - 15:07, said:

Isn"t it a bit contradictory?

In which part? Please, explain and I'll help you out with this

 

 

 

Ok, english isn't my language, so I will reformulate my question:

 

Will it be possible, in a global-off server, to any player to access any mods on any planes he owns(even if he didn't played singleplayer part of the game)?

That's how I understood Black6 answer.

Edited July 5, 2013 by actionjoe

[150GCT_Veltro]

Unlock system doesn't sound good at all for IL2.

 

Amazing bump mapping on the winter map, great work there.

[JtD]

Will I get more points if I kill an opponent who has a higher level? Is level difference damage reduction implemented? Do bomber and fighter pilots get individual skill trees? How much loot will the opponents drop when I kill them? Will there be set items that are more efficient if I have the entire set?

 

Really, for a flight simulation this is pretty bad...but one serious question: Will the achievements at least be based on staying alive? Or is it more important to kill 100 guys while dying 100 times than killing 20 while staying alive through the entire campaign?

 

On the plus side, I like the pictures and the video, and the fact that a rear gunner field mod for the Il-2 will be there.

[Uufflakke]

i just want to say:

i am also no fan of this "Battlefield/WorldofTanks etc" system -> 'Obtaining a new level grants you an ability to unlock new modifications or a plane, until you get them all. This entire development system is pretty much typical for most games these days, it's popular and simple.'

Even more, in a flightsim it makes no sense for me.........

 

I fully agree.

 

It feels a bit like a dog getting rewarded with a dog bone after doing his trick right.

 

Got nothing to do with a flight sim this game achievement approach.

 

My initial enthusiasm for BoS fades away. 

 

It is what it is...

[Bearcat]

Really does look and sounds great. Nice job, you seem to be making real progress. 

 

One thing that does concern me after reading the article is the mention of levelling and reference to how most modern games incorporate this system as if it's a good reason alone to include it into BOS. However BOS is a flight simulator isn't it and not a game? I'm not a fan of the idea of levelling to be gifted with something. The very nature of this design concept is to tap into the addictive competitive nature of people and is only used to increase the average Joes play time without making any real impact of the games quality.

 

I just want to fly with squad mates without having to feel obligated to unlock something I would like.

 

I had the same thoughts..

 

Thank you for the constat updates - they are a big boost to all of our hopes I think.

The campaign gameplay and awards system sounds interesting, however I personaly dont like the following point:

 

With global stats on or off, you'll be using only the planes and mods that you've obtained by purchasing the game or have unlocked by playing the Historical campaign

 

The thing is that many hardcore simmers acctually dont touch single player campaigns. This would be forcing many of the multiplayer only people to fly singleplayer campaing only to get the mods and skins. And many dont want to waste time with single player.

Speaking for myself - I have been flying RoF for years now. And I have done extremly little in the campaing (all due to the fact that I my connection wasnt good enough for proper multiplayer at the time). And for me it felt more of a waste of time than anything like a challenge. I have a great respect for the idea and the hard work with the campaigns in RoF and for BoS. However I find all the AI too stupid and repetative to offer any challenge. Dosent matter which sim / game... I simply get borred very quickly as the fight itself dosent offer a proper challenge - it never gets even close to the various situations you get into on a MP server.

And I dont want to be wasting many hours in campaign only to unlock some mods that I will need in multiplayer (online wars.....) I much preffer to unlock them in multiplayer.

Can you please consider an option to unlock these mods in multiplayer as well so that the people that will not be playing the campaing can also get the mods.

 

I am in this group.. I guess the hardcore thing goes both ways. I have flown a handfull of single player campaigns.. mainlyh because of time issues. Very often I fly for an hour or so in the morning before I go to work.. or in the evening with my squadmates in coops mostly.. My sim time is limited and even though I would not be adverse to being able to buy these mods and upgrades it seems as if it would be a penalty on thiose who don't have the time to do campaigns.

 

Makes it sound like Warthunder to me. Levelling up? Unlockables? Worrying times for a Sim with the IL2 pedigree

It does make it sound like it.. but I still am pretty confident that the only thing BoS will have in common with WT is that both deal with WWII aircraft.

 

I was thinking just the same. The very reason why I have spent so little time with that title. Worrying is an understatement. Why stray away from the winning formula that makes the original IL2 so great?

+1

 

Your question is a perfectly reasonable one and I've seen this type of question come up many times before on other game forums regarding levels/unlocks and why can't we just unlock them all if they're free anyway? But the problem is that this will now directly contradict their business model. It's basically a business strategy that is designed to make the average player play longer, that's all. Regardless of the minority (enthusiasts) like it or not. I quite understand a levelling system for lets say a MMORPG or RTS for example but this doesn't seem fitting for a combat simulator if that's what it's to be.

 

However, putting some more thought into it I have the suspicious feeling you'll be able to buy the unlocks & planes anyway. I'm completely fine with this if this is to be the case. So long as the prices are reasonable and aren't compared to World of Tanks where to buy just one of the the best premium tanks will cost you the price of a brand new game (?

[BG09]

Extreemly good job guys! Go ahead this way only! Fantastic!

~S!

[6S.Manu]

Thanks for the update!

 

Sounds are very good in my opinion (as in RoF).

 

Can I ask if you plan to penalize the pilot for opening the cockpit in some situations (extreme cold and high altitude for example)?

I hope there will be no exploit like in the old IL2s, where flying with open cockpit a pilot could "listen" the approaching enemies.

 

About the unlocking system I agree that's a useless feature in a sim. It's a problem for many virtual squads.

Edited July 5, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Streiff]

As long a BOS doesnt have monthly sub fees im happy.I dont mind the unlock system

Considering you have to unlock planes/items that's pretty much a given.

 

Look at WoT or WoP and you'll know what i mean. If not the same, something similar.

 

And take it from someone who reads those forums, prepare yourself for sinking in a huge amount of cash into the game. The more money the faster you unlock things. Some mo*** spent 500-1000 euros over a couple of years.

 

 

Hope im wrong though.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Baron

[theOden]

It works both ways. Some don't want to waste time on singleplayer and some don't want to waste time on multiplayer. I can tell you now most hardcore combat simmers are mainly multiplayer orientated.

Nice, any specific data for this claim?

(dear mods, no worries I won't push this any further)

[Bearcat]

Of course I will be buying this regardless and I imagine having a lot of fun once I get used to the differences.. but I really think that to some extent you may be trying to reinvent the wheel.. IL2 has lasted for well over a decade and is still going strong because at it's core the system worked.. I hope that this reinvention of the wheel and the method that BoS seems to be headed for fosters the continued growth of the genre and carries within it the potential for longevity.

 

 

 

Game achievement shows how good you are as a player.

 

Yes but isn't that only going to be if you do campaigns? What about the people who just are not into campaigns? Will we be locked out of this kind of thing or will there be a similar kind of ranking/rating/upgrade path if all you do is multiplayer?

 

 

 

Every regiment will have its specific camouflage - exactly the same they used to have in the war, but you'll be allowed to put on a different one when you earn it. Such individual skin won't be absolutely voluntary, you will not be able to draw Mickey Mouse and etc. but be sure that we'll pick the most original and eye-catching camo patterns of real pilot in the history of the Battle.

Again.. how will this work for primarily online squads? In my squad everyone has thier own persoanl skin .. mine is the one in my sig.. How will this play into the whole process. IMO this is not a small matter as far as immersion and intersquad activities. Do you have an idea of how this will be addressed or is it still up in the air or is it a done deal and if you use a personal skin you will just have to suck it up...

 

 

 

If a server was created with global stats turned on then all the match results will affect your profile; if not - your stats won't be influenced by your combat performance. If the server is open for global statistics then the player will only be allowed to use the skins that they've unlocked playing the Historical campaign.

With global stats on or off, you'll be using only the planes and mods that you've obtained by purchasing the game or have unlocked by playing the Historical campaign (game SKUs and pricing will be described later)

 

This touches on my previous question but it is not clear... I sincerely hope that the option for personal skins is in this sim. IMO if this feature that has been available in flight sims for the past 15+ years is is no longer possible that would be a step backwards. Finally on the skin note.. One of the things that IL2 got right and as far as I know (it may have been in other sims but I first saw it in IL2) was one of the first to do it, was with the pilot skins.. being able to put your face on a plot skin.. Now I know that for many this and even the above mentioned items are small potatoes and minor things.. but they added to the immersion factor a great deal.. will this be possible in BoS as well?

[SYN_Mike77]

I want to be perefectly clear on one thing:  Is it true that you only get points to unlock goodies by flying the single player career?  Or conversely, you don't get points towards unlocking goodies when you fly online?

[Bearcat]

Considering you have to unlock planes/items that's pretty much a given.

 

Look at WoT or WoP and you'll know what i mean. If not the same, something similar.

 

And take it from someone who reads those forums, prepare yourself for sinking in a huge amount of cash into the game. The more money the faster you unlock things. Some mo*** spent 500-1000 euros over a couple of years.

 

 

Hope im wrong though.

 

I have every single seat  fighter in RoF with the exception of the Fokker EIII  .. I have no bombers.. and no floats.. I have all the weapons mods with the exception of the ones for the Albatross DII & DIII I have all the campaigns & maps and all the personalization mods.. and I have spent nowhere near that..... Not even close.. If you buy every plane that comes out because you just want it whether you fly it or not then you may spend more money.. but frankly 500-1000 Euros .. You are talking $600-$1200 ...    I don't see it...   I buy what I like to fly and buy what I'd like to try when a sale comes out.. Even at full price unless you are one of these people who wants it because it is there .. I just don't see dropping that kind of money.. and anyone who does on any game is not very smart. Considering that I spent about $180 on IL2 over the years not counting the gifts I got for people.. and so far I have spent under $200 on RoF and given all that I have I think it is a fair and balanced business model. Even if I added an extra $100 for Ss&Gs.. still at $300 it is a fair and reasonable business model. If you know someone who spent that kind of money on RoF or any game really.. you need to slap them.

[Rama]

In which part? Please, explain and I'll help you out with this

It seems contradictory since:

- the first quoted sentence says that whatever global stats status (ON or OFF), the player can only fly with unlocked mods (that were unlocked during solo career)

- BlackSix seems to say that if global stats are OFF, then the player could fly with unlocked mods if the server host decide it.... which contradict the first sentence.

So either there's a contradiction, or one of the statements is not clear.

 

The question is: will the solo campaign be the only way to unlock mods or planes?

 

If it's the case, then all the peoples like me who don't like to fly solo campaigns will be unable to unlock mods or planes... I don't mind paying for mods or planes, but I do mind being unable to play with.

[Zak]

Will it be possible, in a global-off server, to any player to access any mods on any planes he owns(even if he didn't played singleplayer part of the game)?

No.

 

Will I get more points if I kill an opponent who has a higher level? Is level difference damage reduction implemented? Do bomber and fighter pilots get individual skill trees? How much loot will the opponents drop when I kill them? Will there be set items that are more efficient if I have the entire set?

No. No. No. None. No.

Really, for a flight simulation this is pretty bad...but one serious question: Will the achievements at least be based on staying alive? Or is it more important to kill 100 guys while dying 100 times than killing 20 while staying alive through the entire campaign?

Sorry, no info about specific achievements as of yet.

 

I want to be perefectly clear on one thing:  Is it true that you only get points to unlock goodies by flying the single player career?  Or conversely, you don't get points towards unlocking goodies when you fly online?

Yes, the points that allow you to unlock more content are earned in historical campaign only.

 

If it's the case, then all the peoples like me who don't like to fly solo campaigns will be unable to unlock mods or planes... I don't mind paying for mods or planes, but I do mind being unable to play with.

You can buy them. The thing is I can't tell all details about business model the game will have. I just must admit that it's more affordable than RoF

[Pollux]

I'm not loving this system release. It looks a bit like War Thunder system.

 

But Jason had announced that it would not be an MMO: http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/topic/6-about-partnership-and-battle-stalingrad/?do=findComment&comment=15

 

IIn the Campaign mod it can be interesting but not for co-op between players or it will be penalized.

 

I'm afraid that the players of Dog is promoted and players like me who seeks realistic missions with navigation, a goal to achieve, to protect the crew and especially the ultimate goal of returning to life, is finally losing with this system?

 

 

Anyway, I'm very skeptical  

Edited July 5, 2013 by Pollux18

[Rama]

You can buy them. The thing is I can't tell all details about business model the game will have. I just must admit that it's more affordable than RoF

Fair enough, if I can buy them, I see no problems with others getting them with solo career achievements.

 

Thanks for the answer.

[SYN_Mike77]

OK, so you can buy them or earn them by flying the career mode?  That's better, makes it more of a RoF+ system.  Just don't let my wife know about this non purchase option OK?

Edited July 5, 2013 by SYN_Mike77

[JtD]

No. No. No. None. No.

 

Rgr.

[Zak]

OK, so you can buy them or earn them by flying the career mode?  That's better, makes it more of a RoF+ system.  Just don't let my wife know about this non purchase option OK?

No problem, sir

[LukeFF]

still its better than the pay2win ROF system.

 

And what is this pay to win system in ROF you speak of? 

[Shea]

  Just don't let my wife know about this non purchase option OK?

Lol is zak having an affair with her  JK

Edited July 5, 2013 by shea

[Feuerfalke]

Yes, but the system as I understand it now, doesn't reward the most skilled, only the people who play singleplayer.

 

The original question was not SP vs MP, but about the unlock system.

 

Nothing is set in stone, yet, and I still believe they won't force players to play singleplayer.

 

 

Besides that: A singleplayer-pilot must not neccessarily be unskilled.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Feuerfalke

[Bearcat]

And what is this pay to win system in ROF you speak of?

 

I was wondering that too I happen to like the RoF system. I think it is a great business model. Even paying full price for the planes I will fly the most is not a problem and makes it more feasable to buy planes I will only try when they go on sale.

[[DBS]TH0R]

say what you will, i don't like the feeling of my enemy having a pimped flight because he paid more than i did. That rendedered ROF a Offline only game for me.

Unless the server will have some (read complete) control over the addons and "pimped up" weapony, the same will happen here IMHO.

Edited July 5, 2013 by [DBS]TH0R

[Sokol1]

"Press trigger"

 

 

 

Sokol1

[Bearcat]

http://riseofflight.com/en/store/weaponmods

 

 

say what you will, i don't like the feeling of my enemy having a pimped flight because he paid more than i did. That rendedered ROF a Offline only game for me.

 

I think you maymay be misinterpreting the weapons mods.. Many of the other field mods are things like slip indicators and compasses etc.. You can't buy a supercharged engines. From what I saw most of the weapons mods are things like balloon guns and rockets. Even with some of the gun upgrades that are not balloon guns they do not give you an advantage that will overwrite pilot skill or maksmanship.

[DD_Arthur]

"Un-lockable rewards"?  Oh dear. Not impressed at all.  BoS team makes it first mistake in my opinion.  I want a flight sim I can fly with my buddies or on my own. I don't want a 'game'.  If I've payed for the sim I want the same as everyone else.  Just not interested in stats - global or otherwise frankly.

 

I would much prefer a RoF system than a rewards system.

[AX2]

Is 2014 - 21 century 

 

The multiplayer and internet will be the core of any flight sim and a modern game .

 

Unlocking modifications,weapons or planes sounds good.

 

I buyed all aircraft of RoF , and get some gifts, The possibility of unlock for free is nice.

This Encourage the multiplayer game.

 

I really like the multiplayers servers and especially multiplayer campaigns,

And very especially the multiplayer coops.

 

 

Nice video !!!

 

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mustang

[Streiff]

I have every single seat  fighter in RoF with the exception of the Fokker EIII  .. I have no bombers.. and no floats.. I have all the weapons mods with the exception of the ones for the Albatross DII & DIII I have all the campaigns & maps and all the personalization mods.. and I have spent nowhere near that..... Not even close.. If you buy every plane that comes out because you just want it whether you fly it or not then you may spend more money.. but frankly 500-1000 Euros .. You are talking $600-$1200 ...    I don't see it...   I buy what I like to fly and buy what I'd like to try when a sale comes out.. Even at full price unless you are one of these people who wants it because it is there .. I just don't see dropping that kind of money.. and anyone who does on any game is not very smart. Considering that I spent about $180 on IL2 over the years not counting the gifts I got for people.. and so far I have spent under $200 on RoF and given all that I have I think it is a fair and balanced business model. Even if I added an extra $100 for Ss&Gs.. still at $300 it is a fair and reasonable business model. If you know someone who spent that kind of money on RoF or any game really.. you need to slap them.

 

 

Never said anything about RoF    WoT and WoP uses a completely different approach than RoF.

 

Simply put, the system relies on peoples desire to advance up the ladder, taking it to the next step if you will. Using Premium Accounts (money) and credits (money) to get to where you want to go at the moment the fastest possible way (Bf109 G6 for ex.) And  trust me, it works, it works very well indeed. And so you know, if i could i would slap them senseless.  The thing is that the game is essentially free. Its only when you get higher up the ladder that will need Premium accounts etc. (1 month Premium costs 9.95 Euro btw. and will give you 30% more experience or something like that)

 

Look up Wargaming and their gross incomes etc. Your jaw will drop to the floor. RoF/IL2 Sturmoviks incomes is coffe money in comparison.

 

 

P.S. WoT global servers has in excess of 100 000 players at any given time so you can imagine why other gaming company want to get a piece of the action. 

 

 

Again, not saying im right.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Baron