AAA mod

[Stonehouse]

Did a health check on this mod today - no issues but I did see an unrelated minor change in the game files I've cloned so made some small corrections. I've uploaded a new version with this change but so far I think that you can grab it whenever you have time rather than as anything urgent.

[Hook_Echo]

@StonehouseI tried this mod out last night in a QMB attack airfield mission as I figured it would have a lot of AAA. It's pretty great. I made two passes without any real resistance and thought the mod wasn't working. When I went back in for a third pass alone the air raid sirens were blaring and I got absolutely lit up. Good stuff. Thanks for the mod.

 

Is it possible to change the fire rate of the Flak? I'm doing a ground attack career and I'd like to set the number of enemy planes to low, but that also sets the AAA to low numbers. I was thinking if it's possible to increase the fire rate and dispersion we could have one gun that appeared to be many.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Hook_Echo
typo

[Stonehouse]

You'd have to choose what type of flak gun and then change the weapon definition as that's where rate of fire is defined. I don't believe rate of fire is influenced by crew quality from what I have seen in the various gunner bot definitions. Crew quality impacts recognising a target, how fast they engage, the aiming errors and quite importantly the error on their initial few rounds fired on a target. ROF is a constant of the weapon. Interestingly for larger calibre weapons like the German 88 where each shell fired had to be loaded I have read reference material that definitely stated that crack crews were able to get a higher ROF as they were quicker at reloading the gun than green crews. However, this is not covered by the AI definitions here. Generally speaking I have not changed weapon definitions with this mod other than some tweaks to a very limited number of weapons and their range.

 

Not sure changing the ROF is going to achieve what you want anyway as 1 gun = 1 target pretty much. So I don't think it would appear as if you had many guns. Probably you'd be better off having a normal number of AAA of larger calibre with novice crews and less light AAA and have any you do have be also novice crews. Novice crews because they are slower to engage and have larger errors. Less light AAA because they are really the main threat for low flying aircraft (as they were designed to be) as they are quicker to switch from target to target and have much higher rates of fire.

 

edit - sorry just reread your post and realised my response doesn't really help you. Short answer is yes you can change rate of fire by weapon type but that I don't think it will help you much. If you increase ROF to try to simulate a larger number of weapons I think all that will happen is the poor sod the super weapon targets will get zapped like it's a laser cannon and then the AAA will do the same to the next aircraft and so on. Don't think you'll get the effect of lots of guns spraying at lots of targets. If you feel inclined to try then you need to locate the text file for the weapon you want to mod in data\luascripts\worldobjects\vehicles\turrets (you need to use the unGTP tool on scripts.gtp to get this) and change the line that talks about bullet recharge time I believe. So a Bren gun set up for AAA for instance has 0.12 for this which I think equates to 500 rounds per min while a Flak 37/88 has a value of 3 for 20 rounds per min. Remember this change to ROF you propose will change every weapon of that type.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Hook_Echo]

I have set up a test mission for my doom flak. I pumped up the fire rate and it looks glorious. What do I need to do to decrease the accuracy/ increase the spread of the gun?

 

Can you shed some light on these values in the file? Is this the proximity for the explosive to detonate?
NeedFuse = true
minInputFuse = 1.3

 

 

The file text for reference:
 

Spoiler

Class_name = "CVehicleTurret"
object_name = "VehicleTurret"
// Çåíèòíàÿ ïóøêà Flak 37
//SoundScript="LuaScripts\Sound\Vehicles\CannonAA_Shot_Med.cfg"

[attach=0]
    position= 0.0, 0.0, 0
    object = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Bots/botAAAgunnerantiairflak88mm.txt"
[end]

PitchPoint = -0.625, 0.738, 0.0

AngleYawMin      = -180.0
AngleYawMax      = 180.0
AnglePitchMin    = -3.0
AnglePitchMax    = 82.0
AnglePitchDef    = 60
YawArgNum        = 221
PitchArgNum      = 241
YawArgMin        = 0.0
YawArgMax        = 1.0
PitchArgMin      = 0.0
PitchArgMax      = 1.0

YawAngularSpeed    = 9.0
PitchAngularSpeed  = 9.0

FireArgumentNum  = 64100
AttackAnimationArgNum = 61

FireAnimationTime    = 0.4
AttackAnimationTime  = 0.4

MuzzleDisplacement = 4.4, 0, 0

AIStartAimErrModifier = 1.0        //Modifier for AI initial bracketing aim error (reduced twice with each shot)

AIAimDelayModifier = 1.0        //Modifier for AI delay before start to aim to a new target at 1000m range

AttackDistance   = 14500.0        //AI max aim distance versus ground point (test by 45¡ shot)
AttackDistanceTrgGnd = 2000.0        //AI max aim distance versus ground target
AttackDistanceTrgAir = 8000.0        //AI max aim distance versus air target (test by 45° shot - range for 10° elevation aim) or limited by max fuse distance

[bullet=1]
    BulletScript    = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_GER_88_HE.txt"
    TargetingScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_GER_88_HE.bin"
    ExplosionScript = ""
    BulletsCount = 50
    StartBulletSpeed = 820.0
    RealPhysicBullet = true
    PriorityArmorMin = 0.0
    PriorityArmorMax = 20.0
[end]

[bullet=2]
    BulletScript    = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_GER_88_CV.txt"
    TargetingScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Projectiles/SHELL_GER_88_CV.bin"
    ExplosionScript = ""
    BulletsCount = 50
    StartBulletSpeed = 800.0
    RealPhysicBullet = false
    PriorityArmorMin = 20.0
    PriorityArmorMax = 1000.0
[end]

VisibleTraceNum = 1

NumBulletsInQueue = 20
QueueRechargeTime   = 10.0
BulletRechargeTime  = 0.75

NeedFuse = true
minInputFuse = 1.3

 

The glorious destruction:

[Stonehouse]

Depends on whether you are using stock game files or the ones I provided with the mod. If the latter then you would need to determine which bot the gun is using. For the 88 it would be botAAAgunnerantiairflak88mm.txt. If you look in this file it tells you which definition is being used for the crew. For the 88 it's vehicleturretai88mmantiairflakmod.txt.

 

Relevant lines are below, mostly a 3 number series for each parameter representing high, medium and low skills. Obviously you are interested in the Air target related ones. MaxAirTargetDisp is essentially the base accuracy of the weapon and gives the max dispersion rating against an aerial target. Probably easier for you to juggle the skill numbers than this one.

 

NeedFuse - My assumption is that the shells are fused rather than impact triggered if true

MinInputFuse - Not sure assume it needs a certain time or distance for the shell to be armed and clear of the gun when fired so there is a low limit to the fusing setup? 

 

Don't think these really help you. Instead fiddle with crew values.

 

//Priority for Targeting
//                     HI MEDIUM LOW

AirTargetMaxError  =   90.0f, 360.0f, 1440.0f //100,400,1600
MaxAirTargetDisp   =   1.15f //was 0.75f

LandTargetMaxError =   5.0f, 15.0f, 20.0f //10,15,40
MaxLandTargetDisp  =   1.25f //was 1.25f

LowTargetAngle = 5.0
minFuseDisp = -0.125, -0.250, -0.500
maxFuseDisp = +0.125, +0.250, +0.500

targetingDistance = 15000.0f //5000

SearchErrorTime = 5.0f

// Max Error - max error distance in metres
// on distance 1000

//StartAimErr = 0.06, 0.12, 0.24    //Initial bracketing aim error (reduced twice with each shot)
StartAimErr = 0.09, 0.15, 0.30    //Initial bracketing aim error (reduced twice with each shot)
KvSide = 0.5    //Modifier for side bracketing

TargetRecognitionDelay = 6.0, 10.0, 20.0    //10,20,30 Delay before start to aim to a new target at 1000m range

Edited August 3, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Hook_Echo]

This is great fun. Thank you so much for helping me. I think I only have one more question. Do you know if target lead can be adjusted? They mostly fire at or behind my plane and I would like to move the cone of fire more in front of my plane so I'm flying through more smoke puffs.

[Stonehouse]

Hmmm not sure. Probably not allowing correct lead is the main source of error in the AAA aiming algorithm followed by incorrect fusing (ie misjudging altitude). Mind you I've never seen the algorithm for AAA only the one AI aircraft gunners so it's all guesswork.

 

Initial shot errors are the StartAimErr numbers. Perhaps you might have to lower these to make the initial shots less wild but actually change the weapon dispersion (MaxAirTargetDisp) and skill based numbers to be higher to reduce the chance of first shot kills. This might lead to more visually satisfying target lead but I'm not sure. You're going to have to do a lot of play testing probably. The stock guns are very accurate so you can use those numbers as a base reference. I might have misunderstood you but aren't you mostly after eye candy? Lots of flak bursts but not much accuracy? If they start getting lead sort of right you are likely to get more kills from AAA taking place just because it's an area effect weapon once you are talking fused ammo. ie you are more likely to fly into a burst just ahead of you.

 

Have you tried giving your super fast firing 88 more than one target yet to see what happens? Still think it will get fixated on one target until it kills it.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

Did a quick health check after the last patch and as far as I can see there are no issues.

[Stonehouse]

Just a heads up that there was a small change in the stock files in the last patch. It only affects a few of the crew served weapons and seems to be with animations so don't believe the current version will cause any major problems for anyone. Anyway I will release a new version pretty soon. Just doing some testing before doing so to ensure no easily avoidable bugs are dumped on you. Also I discovered that vehicles with dedicated AAA turrets (as opposed to flexible MGs) weren't being covered by the mod. Interestingly the bot file is a hybrid air gunner/flak gun definition and takes things from both. Will include this as well.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

Apologies for the very limited testing this time around. I've builders and plumbers etc in working on my house all next week and I'm really not sure how much time I will get on the pc. Anyway I figured it was better to get it uploaded since I've tried about 15 or 20 AQMB missions testing both this mod and AI Gunnery checking different scenarios very quickly as a spectator without errors. Changes were mainly that a new parameter NumberOfAnimations was added to some larger crew served weapons and now the mod covers vehicles with dedicated AAA turret logic. 

[Stonehouse]

Checked the files and have done a quick test post 5.001 and do not believe there are any issues to fix for this mod.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

Just an FYI - looking at my own mod list I realised that I use my own AAAmod and the old BlindAAA. BlindAAA was acting as a catch all dispersion mod for anything the AAAmod didn't cover. As it wasn't mine, I hadn't paid much attention to it but now I realise it is out of sync with both the AAAmod settings and also the 5.001 stock files. So, I have decided to merge the two into an updated AAA mod that covers all AAA. Should be out soon.

 

<edit> - New version in first post of thread.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Stonehouse
new version

[Hook_Echo]

Thanks @Stonehousefor all your mods. I really appreciate it. Basically everything I want improved, you have a mod for.

[Stonehouse]

Looking for feedback post 5.001 considering the updated DM and reduction in pilot hit points. How do people find the experience using this mod now? Too hard? Too easy or ok/no change?

 

Thanks

[DN308]

I'll download it and install. Will let you know about

[Hook_Echo]

I've seen quite a few planes, bombers and fighters, shot down by triple A since the update. I haven't seen one with a dead pilot yet. So Anecdotally I'd say it's good still. Mostly they get chewed up and try to limp home... unsuccessfully.

 

Obviously not something you can do, but man are they stupid. Bursts everywhere and they fly straight and level, even when they're running away.

[Stonehouse]

If there was an issue it would likely be with light AAA. Thanks for the feedback, Hook Echo. Hopefully a few more people give some as well, so I have a cross section of opinion.

[Hook_Echo]

Stone, have you done any of the beachhead patrols in QMB? The ones where you defend or attack the mulberry harbors after D-Day. If you haven't yet I suggest you try it out. The amount of light triple A is crazy. When a German goes over those boats it's a sight to see. That will probably give you a good idea how your mod is working.

 

Of course there's the laser focus where all the guns focus one target. I've noticed that the guns, MGs or explosive, never ever over lead their targets. They always shoot behind and then catch up over time. I realize after messing with modding the mod there's nothing to be done. It's one of my frustrations with the AAA. When you are flying you don't really see any explosions as it's always behind you. I play co-op a lot and it is usually warning each other that the other pilot is being targeted. Part of that is the lack of sound. You don't hear an explosion until it is practically inside your plane.

[Youtch]

Were the explosions heard in real life from the cockpit with the engine noise?

 

I was under the impression you cannot hear anything except what is just behind you.

[Hook_Echo]

12 minutes ago, Youtch said:

Were the explosions heard in real life from the cockpit with the engine noise?

 

I was under the impression you cannot hear anything except what is just behind you.

 

I'll try to find some info on this. Even if you can't hear it something is missing. I have sim shaker installed and you do not feel it. I've been around explosives and you feel it. The shockwave would go through the plane.

 

I found this interesting regarding lead, bomber related in this case. You want to lead the target, so even if it's

a miss there's still metal in the air they have to fly through. And then the bombers have to roll through where more shells are going off.

 

“Flak was the worst thing in the world,” Bowers says. “We faced it on every flight. Once it started, all you could see was this black stuff. Of course, that black stuff has been expanded. What gets you are the ones that have a red dot in the middle. That’s where the explosion takes place. You can see the red and then it just turns to gunpowder. It was scary because you knew the flak was there and you knew you had to fly through it. And the Germans knew we were going to fly through it, too. They knew we weren’t going to change air speed, and they knew we weren’t going to change altitude. So they would get their shells up there at the right height and the right time, and you just had to fly through it. There was no way we could turn back. We never took evasive action. Once we started the bomb run and the pilot turned the plane over to the bombardier, he was flying the plane. And in the history of the Eighth Air Force, no one ever turned back from a mission because of enemy fire. As far as I was concerned, flak was worse than fighters.”

[Youtch]

2 hours ago, Hook_Echo said:

I have sim shaker installed and you do not feel it.

Andre was saying that there is no event sent for flak for simshaker to interpret. There is even an online request to add this functionality to IL2.

[Stonehouse]

7 hours ago, Hook_Echo said:

Stone, have you done any of the beachhead patrols in QMB? The ones where you defend or attack the mulberry harbors after D-Day. If you haven't yet I suggest you try it out. The amount of light triple A is crazy. When a German goes over those boats it's a sight to see. That will probably give you a good idea how your mod is working.

 

Of course there's the laser focus where all the guns focus one target. I've noticed that the guns, MGs or explosive, never ever over lead their targets. They always shoot behind and then catch up over time. I realize after messing with modding the mod there's nothing to be done. It's one of my frustrations with the AAA. When you are flying you don't really see any explosions as it's always behind you. I play co-op a lot and it is usually warning each other that the other pilot is being targeted. Part of that is the lack of sound. You don't hear an explosion until it is practically inside your plane.

 

Interesting, I hadn't tried one yet. Thanks for the suggestion. Watching the German attack, I think I possibly do need to slightly reduce accuracy or increase max dispersion/error for light AAA, but I will keep on investigating for now while further feedback comes in. I realise AAA at such places was murderous in real life, but the point of this mod was to try to balance realism with playability considering the way the AI pilots fly.

 

I did notice that it does lead the target as from the pilot's viewpoint you can see it curve back towards you, but the amount of lead is very close to correct even for the first bursts. So, it is a rare shot that ends up in front to give you warning that you are being shot at if you don't see the tracer coming up. Otherwise, it is the usual issue where the AI often does singleton attacks, and every gun will cone that target as you say. Nothing I can do about that, may be able to do something about the lead situation but it will take some experimenting. 

[Stonehouse]

Done some more testing using a beach patrol from AQMB as a test bed. Converted it to a single mission and checked the Allied AAA skill on LSTs and DDs etc at the beach head providing AA defenses. Very scary.......they were all normal. My initial tests assumed they were high as all attacking FW190s both those set up for ground attack and those doing escort were destroyed solely by AAA without the defenders taking any damage. Repeated this several times and the FWs doing the bombing all got destroyed short of the drop point. I modified the AAA skills to low in the ME and ran it again. It took a bit longer, but the results were the same. Basically, even when the AAA in this mission was low skill, I could keep the Allied fighters parked out at sea and the AAA took care of the mission by itself. With the density of light and heavy AAA at the beach head I can accept total losses for the attackers particularly considering the AI method of attack. I just can't accept that none of the defenders took any real damage with even low skill AAA. So.............doing some adjustments let's say. 

[Stonehouse]

Ok I've done a lot of test runs using the beachhead patrol mission with AAA at the different levels of skill. On low skill AAA the losses due to AAA for the attacker average at around 50% and go upwards from there with increases in AAA skill. I feel this is reasonable from the point of view of a compromise between realism and playability for such a heavily defended target. These changes may have made low density AAA ineffectual, and I am looking for feedback in this regard from the people using the mod so I can do more tweaks if needed. Updated version in first post. Hope you find it enjoyable. Well, you know what I mean..................

Edited September 30, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

Post 5.002 updates. New ships added, corrections for a small number of omissions in last update. Only had time for a quick test again using Allied Beachhead patrol and all seems ok with the new version. 

[Airborne506]

This mod is no joke - I was a bit disappointed with the stock flak activity so I gave this a swing. Flak is definitely to be feared again. It's great with the new DVD too!

[DN308]

Your mod is a beast. 
Any FLAK spot is to avoid seriously.

No way an attack on a Flak protected target ends well for the attacker.

 

I’ve flown various missions so far and none was easy. Not a single one without FLAK damage.

 

We need to think again how to approach a target.

 

Very well done!

[vonGraf]

Yes, well done mod and exemplarily maintained. Many thanks; for the other mods too.

In singleplayer (+ PWCG) I have to line up my flight behind me in a row and doing a 'wild' zig-zag course to cross over the enemies frontline because of the Flak. Flying in a straight line became deadly. At times I forget it..

And I think the losses in general due to the Flak on other AI flights are balanced and not too much though.

[Peachy9]

A great Mod, thank you. One question I have is whether it is possible to set an altitude below which heavy flak will not fire? 
I have been playing Jabo over England missions in PWCG and because of the density of SE England I am being taken out on every mission by heavy flak at 100 metres altitude and 400kph.it’s less of a problem over Normandy as the allies I assume because things are more dispersed.

 

I can understand light flak which was a real danger but long range predicted flak just simply couldn’t track small, low level and fast targets.

not sure if there are parameters I can tweak myself?

Thanks again for a great Mod.

[Stonehouse]

32 minutes ago, Peachy9 said:

A great Mod, thank you. One question I have is whether it is possible to set an altitude below which heavy flak will not fire? 
I have been playing Jabo over England missions in PWCG and because of the density of SE England I am being taken out on every mission by heavy flak at 100 metres altitude and 400kph.it’s less of a problem over Normandy as the allies I assume because things are more dispersed.

 

I can understand light flak which was a real danger but long range predicted flak just simply couldn’t track small, low level and fast targets.

not sure if there are parameters I can tweak myself?

Thanks again for a great Mod.

Not that I'm aware of. There is not "altitude" parameter per se only range. Only max range at that, that I have seen. Certainly, is not part of the AI definitions and I've not seen anything on weapon definitions. Closest is probably a minimum input fuse value for larger caliber weapons but I believe that is set to the historically accurate value. All I can think of is that you must have been picked up as a target from sufficiently far away for the guns to be pointing your way and tracking you rather than having to try to turn and track you at close range. Anyway, I don't think there is a setting to stop large AAA firing below a certain range or altitude.

 

Do you happen to know which British/US gun took you out? I can try to do some investigation to see if there is anything possible if I know which weapon it was.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Peachy9]

Will have a look at the file and get back to you

thanks

[Peachy9]

Stonehouse

 

Looks like a 3.7inch AA - there are US 90mm on the map but not spawned near where i was  - so from what i can tell it was 3.7inch British

 

Thanks for looking at this - I think you are right in that I was at tree top height but there was high ground off to my left (the south downs) and the guns probably shot down on me... obviously a big no no for heavy AA in a populated area!! 

[Stonehouse]

Ok no promises but will see if I can find anything. Unfortunately, I don't think the AI cares much about such things as collateral damage. Just whether they got you or not. 

[Stonehouse]

17 hours ago, Peachy9 said:

Stonehouse

 

Looks like a 3.7inch AA - there are US 90mm on the map but not spawned near where i was  - so from what i can tell it was 3.7inch British

 

Thanks for looking at this - I think you are right in that I was at tree top height but there was high ground off to my left (the south downs) and the guns probably shot down on me... obviously a big no no for heavy AA in a populated area!! 

 

@Peachy9

Checked the weapon, turret and bot definitions for the 3.7 inch and as I thought there is nothing like a min range or altitude that I can see. It can depress to 5 degrees below horizontal so could shoot down on you at a sufficient range. The yaw and pitch angular speed is a value of 9.0 - presumably degrees per sec. This is likely the biggest limiting factor for engaging low, close and fast targets. The closest to a min range is the minimum fuse setting. This is 1.3 secs and so with a muzzle velocity of 814 m/s for the HE round (this is historically correct as far as I can see) you get an effective min range of approx 1058m. This is regardless of your height. They can attack air targets out to 12000m if they detect them. I don't know if the game shares info from radar or other AAA about a target location or each AAA must individually detect targets. Checking around for the range it is a bit hard to tell exactly which model of 3.7 we have. Early versions seem to have an effective range of less than 12000m, but later ones had more. Mostly this seems to have been due to improvements in shell fusing for airburst HE ammo leading to longer effective range.  They can shoot 10-20 rounds per minute so pretty high rof for a large caliber gun. Very like the German 88.

 

So, in your case I can only assume they picked you up at more than the minimum range according to the fuse setting and managed to target you and get an air burst close enough to damage you. I think it is all working pretty much as it does in real life and so your only defense would have been to be a less predictable target until you were within their minimum fusing range...........which unfortunately is where light AAA is waiting if the defenses are set up properly.

 

If you can demonstrate you were at less than 1058 m to the 3.7 that got you at the time it fired, I believe this would be a game bug and should be reported as I have not changed anything that defines the 3.7. For this gun my changes only affect the AI bots for the crew and their accuracy.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Peachy9]

Thanks Stonehouse

makes sense. I think for my Jabo 1942 missions I will have to put AA to low density in PWCG and work out a very circuitous route to target.

maybe there’s a reason they didn’t fly very far inland in the main!!!

 

[Stonehouse]

No apparent issues or changes needed post 5.003

[Stonehouse]

FYI that there will be updates to this mod and it's WIP at present. Hope to get it to you before Christmas. I don't think current version will give you any errors but there are things not covered by the mod so your experience with AAA will be a mix of stock and mod. I also saw a parameter I'd like to experiment with for light AAA if I have time.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Stonehouse

[RedeyeStorm]

Sounds good @Stonehouse. Looking forward to your changes.

[FodderMonkey]

7 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

FYI that there will be updates to this mod and it's WIP at present. Hope to get it to you before Christmas. I don't think current version will give you any errors but there are things not covered by the mod so your experience with AAA will be a mix of stock and mod. I also saw a parameter I'd like to experiment with for light AAA if I have time.

Played several missions with the mod this morning and had no issues.  Thanks!

[Stonehouse]

New version on first post. Added new vehicles and realigned some turret defs to game files. Mostly on the naval side. I've had a try at a new method of controlling inaccuracy/accuracy using an AI setting rather than mucking about with weapon dispersion values. I generally don't like to alter weapon definitions if I can help it, so I am hoping this new method works for everyone.

 

Honestly due to the time of year I haven't had time to do much testing or else I'd incur the wrath of kith and kin. I plan to leave this version in play for about a week while people try it out and provide feedback and then amend it as seems necessary.

 

Remember in regard to your feedback my aim has always been to have AAA be a credible threat without appearing to have guided bullets and shells but definitely more than eye candy. So, if you do fly straight and level through a flak zone you should expect to get hit but hopefully with my tweaks it won't be insta-death especially on the initial bracketing shots. If you maneuver, then generally in a fighter at least you should be a difficult target for AAA and most likely be ok.........most likely being the key words....you can still get unlucky.

 

Hope it works well for everyone. 

 

Happy Christmas to those who celebrate it. I'm off to help cook Christmas eve dinner ?