AAA mod

[Stonehouse]

12 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Vander has released a v84 of EMG and there are template changes, so I need to do an update. Will try to get to it over the weekend.

 

Update for EMG AAA attack range mod in first post. Resync'd with EMG v84

[LtBerkay]

Do Heavy AAA effects and Flak generator work in QMB and Career or do i have to create the missions myself?

[Stonehouse]

33 minutes ago, LtBerkay said:

Do Heavy AAA effects and Flak generator work in QMB and Career or do i have to create the missions myself?

Heavy AAA effects work with any mission regardless of source.

 

Flak generator will work as it replaces any flak38-39 that is in the mission, but it won't work as I intended unless you use a mission built with the flak generator concept in mind. IE with the mod enabled any flak 38-39 becomes a flak field generator but as the flak field is largely eye candy any defensive benefit from the gun will be mostly negated. So, if the mission balance relies on that flak 38-39 providing defensive fire for instance, you may find suddenly the mission won't be a challenge if the flak generator mod is enabled.

 

The intention for the flak generator was to combined generators with real AAA so you got both the eye candy and an effective defense of the ground location. 

 

For example, if you were creating a mission of a raid on a port you might put down 2 or 3 flak generators within perhaps 1000m of the harbour plus 2 or 3 heavy flak (say m1a1 or flak 37) plus some light flak in the immediate harbour area. This would result in an immersive flak barrage (that is largely harmless unless you are unlucky) mixed with dangerous explosions and bullet streams from the real flak.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

I've added the first part of the EMG More realistic AAA environment mod to the first post. It requires the use of the flak field generator mod and obviously EMG and for best results the AAA Heavy Flak effects mod and AAA mod should be used. It will work without the last two but will not look as good in my opinion and the stock AAA accuracy will make things suicidal for aircraft.

 

Example of what you see in terms of flak in the linked post below. Note that the flak barrage is mostly the flak field generator with some real flak bursts seeded in amongst it. From testing I have done the barrage doesn't appear to impact FPS significantly.

 

Currently only for the Normandy map selection. In terms of usage, simply select Normandy and then generate missions in the usual EMG method. Depending on your taste use harmless (low skill AAA), competent (normal skill AAA) or dangerous (high skill AAA) and this will give the results you get from the AAA mod as you would expect.

Note that unlike the stock EMG experience where flak is mainly encountered at the objective, you will encounter flak where you would logically expect flying near towns, airfields etc. This gives a much more accurate depiction of what flying over Normandy would have been like. This mod also includes the changes the EMG AAA Attack range mod gives. 

 

As noted in the Flak field generator mod notes, the flak bursts from the generators are mostly harmless unless you get very unlucky. They will sound and look like regular heavy flak bursts, however. 

 

I've started work on "The Channel" map template, but it will take quite a while to get it out to you simply due to the amount of work involved in trying to research the historical AAA defenses for places like airfields and removing existing AAA helpers and adding new ones by the hundreds.

 

Hope you get some enjoyment out of flying missions you build.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2024 by Stonehouse

[sammydee]

It seems to me that flak doesn't operate at night. Is this so?

I made a quick mission where I set an aircraft to fly at 4000 m over a battery of four 88mm. In daylight they fired ceaselessly when I was in range and I got aircraft shake from near misses in inside and outside view, could hear the flak shells exploding and in outside view was surrounded by flak bursts, same mission at night, nothing. 

Edited April 11, 2024 by sammydee

[RedeyeStorm]

Only when you get caught by search lights and then you die.

[sammydee]

3 minutes ago, RedeyeStorm said:

Only when you get caught by search lights and then you die.

I put four searchlights in with the guns and they worked every time but they seemed pretty ineffectual compared to the ones in ClOD and didn't once illuminate the aircraft.

[Stonehouse]

An AAA guns decision to fire or not fire is outside the mod somewhere and so far I've not seen anything that can be changed in that regard. So firing at night or extremely bad weather etc or stopping fire when friendlies are close to the target is out of my control. I believe you are both right though - AAA doesn't fire at night unless a searchlight picks up the target. In real life there would be more searchlights than 4 if the target was important enough to warrant a visit by an RAF night bombing raid. A German searchlight battalion consisted of a headquarters and three batteries, each battery with nine 150cm lights. So at least 27 lights. These were generally used at rear and static defense areas. A light AAA battalion (12-19 LAA guns) had a battery of 16 60cm lights attached to the unit. Rear area light batteries had sound locators, roughly 1 per light. I don't believe sound locators are included in the game.

 

Also been asked about searchlights once before - although for the opposite reason i.e. the person thought the lights were too good - but couldn't find anything to change the lights behaviour. So also outside my control.

[RedeyeStorm]

8 hours ago, sammydee said:

I put four searchlights in with the guns and they worked every time but they seemed pretty ineffectual compared to the ones in ClOD and didn't once illuminate the aircraft.

Odd. My experience in career missions are that they are very effective.

[Stonehouse]

On 4/12/2024 at 3:29 AM, sammydee said:

I put four searchlights in with the guns and they worked every time but they seemed pretty ineffectual compared to the ones in ClOD and didn't once illuminate the aircraft.

 

Just curious - the aircraft that failed to be picked up by the lights - were they bombers? were they escorted? If they were escorted did the lights seem to focus more on the escorting fighters? 

 

My reason for asking is that AAA will definitely prioritise escorting fighters over bombers. Possibly even simply fighters over bombers if both are within attack range. I wondered if searchlights seem to follow the same principal.

[Stonehouse]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:48 PM, Stonehouse said:

I've added the first part of the EMG More realistic AAA environment mod to the first post. It requires the use of the flak field generator mod and obviously EMG and for best results the AAA Heavy Flak effects mod and AAA mod should be used. It will work without the last two but will not look as good in my opinion and the stock AAA accuracy will make things suicidal for aircraft.

 

Example of what you see in terms of flak in the linked post below. Note that the flak barrage is mostly the flak field generator with some real flak bursts seeded in amongst it. From testing I have done the barrage doesn't appear to impact FPS significantly.

 

Currently only for the Normandy map selection. In terms of usage, simply select Normandy and then generate missions in the usual EMG method. Depending on your taste use harmless (low skill AAA), competent (normal skill AAA) or dangerous (high skill AAA) and this will give the results you get from the AAA mod as you would expect.

Note that unlike the stock EMG experience where flak is mainly encountered at the objective, you will encounter flak where you would logically expect flying near towns, airfields etc. This gives a much more accurate depiction of what flying over Normandy would have been like. This mod also includes the changes the EMG AAA Attack range mod gives. 

 

As noted in the Flak field generator mod notes, the flak bursts from the generators are mostly harmless unless you get very unlucky. They will sound and look like regular heavy flak bursts, however. 

 

I've started work on "The Channel" map template, but it will take quite a while to get it out to you simply due to the amount of work involved in trying to research the historical AAA defenses for places like airfields and removing existing AAA helpers and adding new ones by the hundreds.

 

Hope you get some enjoyment out of flying missions you build.

 

 

 

 

 

3 very quickly made example co-op dogfight missions using the EMG More realistic AAA environment mod and the flak generator mod. For these missions to work the host must have the flak generator mod enabled and I strongly suggest the AAA mod as well. People using the IL-2 enhanced mod pack should load the latest versions of my mods after the pack as the pack has not been updated since February. Missions are flying for the Allied side, and they cover the Battle of Caen, Operation Cobra and the Falaise Pocket scenarios. Unpack the contents of the zip file to IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\data\Multiplayer\Dogfight or wherever you normally place your dogfight missions. Load balancing may not be great as the missions were quickly created to illustrate what is possible and also was suited for my own situation. So you may need to tweak the missions if they overload your host or server.

 

Note that currently dedicated servers require a workaround to get the server to actually use mods itself. ie server-side mods.

 

EMG missions.zip

Edited April 16, 2024 by Stonehouse

[sammydee]

Hello Stonehouse in reply to your question. The aircraft were unescorted Mosquitos. They were set to fly at 4000 m so I decided to try dropping them a 1000 m to 3000 m and after doing that I found the searchlights were picking them up, not every time but enough to make it interesting. I was using as AAA a selection I imported from file in the editor and as I always use your mods, and thank you for them, I was wondering should I be using the AAA from the Artillery section in the panel on the right side of the editor?

[Stonehouse]

10 hours ago, sammydee said:

fly at 4000 m

Ok so I think searchlights have a max range of 5000m in game. So, your Mossie's at 4000m would need to be within 3000m (if my math is right) to be within range. ie very close, within 20 secs of the light at 300 knots. I believe there is only one size light in game, and they are meant to represent 60cm dia lights. Interestingly I believe the scale of the 3d model in game is incorrect as I've mentioned before here https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/74938-aaa-mod/?do=findComment&comment=1293438. 

 

10 hours ago, sammydee said:

I was wondering should I be using the AAA from the Artillery section in the panel on the right side of the editor?

 

Likely they are the same thing as I assume the compositions/templates you can import were created using the ones under Artillery.

 

Edited April 15, 2024 by Stonehouse

[sammydee]

Thanks for your answers. 👍

[Stonehouse]

5.203 status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.203 for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• Recommend that the AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod is not used post 5.203 until I have had a chance to review and update as necessary. There were a lot of changes in the AQMB and career area of the game.

[Stonehouse]

2 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

5.203 status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.203
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.203 for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• Recommend that the AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod is not used post 5.203 until I have had a chance to review and update as necessary. There were a lot of changes in the AQMB and career area of the game.

 

AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod now updated to 5.203. 

 

Lots of the 5.203 changes were outside the scope of the mod so didn't require any changes for me. It did seem to go quicker than previously as a result and I've no time to thoroughly test the updated mod at this moment so hoping nothing broke. Another new folder added by 5.203 so now at 30 folders for AQMB and career configuration in game. I think the guys responsible for this part of the game must dream about the data while they sleep...................it'd be a big job to stay on top of it all.

Edited April 17, 2024 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

5.203b status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.203b for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• The AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod may be ok post 5.203b but I need to review and update if necessary.  May take a little while due to RL stuff

[Stonehouse]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:05 PM, Stonehouse said:

5.203b status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.203b
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.203b for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• The AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod may be ok post 5.203b but I need to review and update if necessary.  May take a little while due to RL stuff

 

After review of changes between versions I believe the AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod is fine as is post 5.203b

[Stonehouse]

5.204 status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.204 for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG to include the Ta152 which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• The AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod may be ok post 5.204 but I need to review and update if necessary.  Again R/L commitments are a factor as to when I will have time.

[Stonehouse]

Just saw that Vander has released v85 of EMG so this means I will have to update the EMG AAA attack range and EMG More realistic AAA environment mods as time permits. First one isn't too bad but the second is quite a bit of work if the template for Normandy has changed.

Edited June 20, 2024 by Stonehouse

[Stonehouse]

EMG AAA Attack range mod now updated for EMG v85, see first post for new version

[Stonehouse]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:59 AM, Stonehouse said:

5.204 status:

• Believe the AAA mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the AAA Heavy flak effects mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the Flak Generator mod is fine post 5.204
• Believe the EMG AAA attack range mod is fine post 5.204 for now although I expect Vander will release a new version of EMG to include the Ta152 which may change the status of the EMG AAA attack range mod
• Ditto the EMG More realistic AAA environment until the next EMG update
• The AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod may be ok post 5.204 but I need to review and update if necessary.  Again R/L commitments are a factor as to when I will have time.

 

ok after 5.204b where it was ok after 5.204, AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod and EMG more realistic AAA environment still need to be reviewed/updated.

[Stonehouse]

AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod has been reviewed and as best I can determine there were no changes required to make it ok for 5.204b. IE all good to use as it is.

 

EMG more realistic AAA environment does require update, and this is WIP.

[Stonehouse]

The Flak Field Generator has undergone significant reworking and is now known as the Flak Field Generator for each Nation. Each nation now has the appropriate heavy AAA gun graphical model and crew and as such 4 new units are added to the game by this mod. These units are found under Artillery in the editor and the units are FlakGenGB, FlakGenGE, FlakGenRU and FlakGenUS. Respectively the 3d model is a QF37, a Flak38/39, a 52K and a M1A1. Additionally, the flak generators are now insensitive to the crew skill and are always low skill (or harmless in EMG terms). Due to the inclusion of graphical items the mod is now too large to host here and is located on mediafire.

 

The EMG more realistic AAA environment mod has been updated for EMG v85 and reworked to use the new Flak Field generator for each Nation. Additionally, there have been several adjustments and tweaks to AAA density and locations and a work around for an existing EMG issue to do with bombers and ground attack aircraft jettisoning their munitions and returning to base when the formation takes the first casualty. 

 

Many thanks to @kraut1 for their time and assistance in testing and the idea of creating new units so we no longer see a German AAA weapon at an Allied defense location. 

 

Also working on a "light" flak generator mod that will sit over the top of the AAA mod and hopefully if it works create larger flak fields in career and PWCG. Again thanks to Kraut1 for the thought.

[Stonehouse]

Added a new mod called Simulated Flak fields.

 

This mod will create more dense flak fields from heavy AAA guns without any special mission editing and as it doesn't add additional units to a mission you should not experience any significant FPS loss from using the mod.

 

It works by slight increases in rate of fire of the heavy AAA guns in game combined with a custom gunner bot to tweak accuracy so that you get a more immersive environment without any significant increase in risk. Generally, in stock missions you will only find 1 or 2 heavy AAA guns plus a few light AAA guns at any one location. In real life the smallest deployed heavy AAA unit was usually a battery and usually this consisted of 4 guns (plus 2 or so light guns for close in defense). This mod allows a single heavy AAA gun to give the impression of 4 guns, adding to the realism you experience flying the mission without actually changing the mission nor impacting FPS.

 

While it is generally aimed at improving career and PWCG missions, it will work for any stock mission either QMB generated, scripted campaign, career, or PWCG or EMG mission.

 

It does not require any other AAA mod to function however I do recommend the AQMB_QMB and career AAA attack range mod is used for QMB generated or career missions as otherwise often the stock activation range and attack range for the heavy guns is much too small to allow them to turn and aim and fire to any great extent before the target moves out of range or out of arc. In other words, if they spawn with targets too close, they can't turn fast enough to aim and fire.

 

Obviously, I do also suggest using the AAA mod and if you do you should enable the AAA mod first and then this new mod afterwards. You will see warnings that files 52kturret.txt, flak37turret.txt, flak38-39turret.txt, m1a1gun-aaturret.txt and qf37inturret.txt have already been changed by the AAA mod. This is fine and you can ignore these warnings and enable the Simulated Flak fields mod.

 

I think with the currently published mods the AAA side of things is very much improved and the mods provide a lot of flexibility for users and as previously stated I plan to add other EMG templates to the EMG more realistic AAA environment mod over time, so more theatres and time periods are covered. 

 

Many thanks to @kraut1 for their assistance with testing, suggestions and feedback. 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Stonehouse

[JG4_Moltke1871]

@Stonehouse

 

is it possible to use the simulated flak fields a stand alone? Does it work also for WW1?

 

I am interested in more flak density in WW1. Not so much in more accuracy because the difference of performance with early and late planes

[Stonehouse]

5 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

@Stonehouse

 

is it possible to use the simulated flak fields a stand alone? Does it work also for WW1?

 

I am interested in more flak density in WW1. Not so much in more accuracy because the difference of performance with early and late planes

I didn't include WW1 heavy AAA in the simulated flak fields mod but certainly can do so. Yes, absolutely it can be used by itself.

[Stonehouse]

1 hour ago, Stonehouse said:

I didn't include WW1 heavy AAA in the simulated flak fields mod but certainly can do so. Yes, absolutely it can be used by itself.

@JG4_Moltke1871

 

Give this a go and see how it is. It works but may need tweaking for WW1. Did a bit of quick research and it seems like a battery was also 4 guns in WW1 - I guess it isn't surprising that it hadn't changed at the start of WW2 - so I followed the same premise of increasing ROF so 1 gun simulates 4 guns. 

 

If your feedback says it's good for WW1 then I will release it formally in the first post.

Simulated flak fields for PWCG and Career-install after AAAmod.zip

[JG4_Moltke1871]

17 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

@JG4_Moltke1871

 

Give this a go and see how it is. It works but may need tweaking for WW1. Did a bit of quick research and it seems like a battery was also 4 guns in WW1 - I guess it isn't surprising that it hadn't changed at the start of WW2 - so I followed the same premise of increasing ROF so 1 gun simulates 4 guns. 

 

If your feedback says it's good for WW1 then I will release it formally in the first post.

Simulated flak fields for PWCG and Career-install after AAAmod.zip 15.75 kB · 3 downloads

Thanks mate, I will report as soon I find time to check, hopefully latest next weekend 😉

[JG4_Moltke1871]

On 9/8/2024 at 4:59 AM, Stonehouse said:

@JG4_Moltke1871

 

Give this a go and see how it is. It works but may need tweaking for WW1. Did a bit of quick research and it seems like a battery was also 4 guns in WW1 - I guess it isn't surprising that it hadn't changed at the start of WW2 - so I followed the same premise of increasing ROF so 1 gun simulates 4 guns. 

 

If your feedback says it's good for WW1 then I will release it formally in the first post.

Simulated flak fields for PWCG and Career-install after AAAmod.zip 15.75 kB · 3 downloads

Played a few missions in AQMB, it seems too much, the AAA trucks fire as hell… they shooting in salvos ( breaks because overheating ? 🤔 )

Very difficult to survive that, especially with slow and big planes.

 

[Stonehouse]

9 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Played a few missions in AQMB, it seems too much, the AAA trucks fire as hell… they shooting in salvos ( breaks because overheating ? 🤔 )

Very difficult to survive that, especially with slow and big planes.

 

OK - do you know which AAA trucks exactly so I can figure out the gun used? 

 

Plus sounds like 4 guns per 1 is too high. Will tweak and give you another version to try

[JG4_Moltke1871]

I spotted them on the British side of the frontline. Have the brits different? Also on German side the Flakfire is intense.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

But one more aspect is simply the guns firing unnatural quick and the visual of these machine Gun Cannons of course is an immersion killer. Can’t see it from higher altitudes but flying lower it disturbs to see it.

From this point of view, this approach to the solution is of course somewhat difficult.

[Stonehouse]

3 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

machine Gun Cannons of course is an immersion killer.

Ah......ok. It isn't quite as much an issue with WW2 but yeah that does make things harder. With the EMG version of this mod, I can ensure the guns are further from the players sight but not in AQMB or PWCG or career. I will tweak the mod some more in case there is a compromise position, but it sounds like it just doesn't fit WW1.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

45 minutes ago, Stonehouse said:

Ah......ok. It isn't quite as much an issue with WW2 but yeah that does make things harder. With the EMG version of this mod, I can ensure the guns are further from the players sight but not in AQMB or PWCG or career. I will tweak the mod some more in case there is a compromise position, but it sounds like it just doesn't fit WW1.

If you can reduce the rate of fire I would make a second test.

Then I can see it would be a good compromise with not too hard for slower planes and also not destroying the atmosphere with obviously too unrealistic behaving cannons.

 

Then we could see it works, if not it was a nice try then 😉

[Stonehouse]

Did a bit more research,

 

UK Thorny QF13 6cwt we have in game was pretty much a complete failure and was replaced quite quickly by the QF13 8cwt. I've seen one website state only 20 were in service at the end of WW1 and only 2 were serving on the Western Front. Any QF13 cwt 6's that survived the war were converted back to artillery pieces it seems.

 

Towards the bottom of the page linked below. 1600fps translates to about 487 m/s - very slow.........

 

https://militaria.british-classic-motorcycles.co.uk/index.php/13-pdr-qf-gun/

 

The QF13 8 and then 9 etc. had better muzzle velocities but even then, they were apparently used for area denial AAA barrages rather than aimed fire.  The QF13 8cwt and 9 cwt were apparently the most common British AAA. Quite a few were towed and set up on a base rather than mobile.

 

Interestingly the QF13 8 and 9 had a theoretical fire rate of 8 rpm but it seems in the field they fired 6 rpm to avoid barrel degradation.  Our game version of the QF13 6cwt has a fire rate of 25 rpm. I have so far not found any reference stating the ROF for a QF13 6cwt but even if you assume a lighter barrel equates to a higher ROF you would perhaps expect a theoretical 10-12 rpm at best. I would be more likely to guess that it was also 6 rpm for the QF13 6.

 

So as far as British HAAA goes - there were 4 guns per battery so if the rate of fire I have seen quoted is correct for 8 cwt and 9 cwt guns and holds for the 6 cwt then at best the mod should give 32 rounds per min. This works out to a reload rate of a round fired every 1.875 secs instead of the stock 2.4 (representing 25 rpm from a single gun which should actually be something like 7.5 secs per round and I have reported this to the dev team) 

 

I'll do some more reading and tweaking and see where it goes.

 

 

[Stonehouse]

@JG4_Moltke1871

 

New attempt, I think this is better but it's subjective of course and I'm more WW2 than WW1. Give it a go when you can.

 

So, the changes:

• QF13 6cwt as above 1 gun is 8 rpm or 1 round every 7.5 sec. 4 guns is 32 rpm. 4 guns is equivalent to a round fired every 1.875 secs. So, I have given this a go.
• 7.7cm L/27 - as best I can tell this was a converted artillery piece. The field gun was 8 rpm. However, all the rates of fire quoted that I have found for the AAA gun is 20-25 rpm. I have not found any real historical references so assume the 20-25 is right (stock game value is 25). If I assumed 20 rpm and a 4-gun section this would be 1 round fired every 0.75 sec.  Taking your immersion comment in account however I decided to play balance things a bit. So, if I assume the Kaiser only had 2 guns per battery (which is historically wrong I believe) this means 1 round every 1.5 secs. Therefore, the German HAAA still has a rate of fire advantage but not the historical near 3x faster.
• During my reading I found the quote below plus another that said something like 4000 shells were fired to bring 1 aircraft down. Note that this quote below is talking about near the end of the war, so AAA and the aiming systems had improved quite a bit since 1914. Accordingly, I have further reduced the accuracy of WW1 heavy AAA in this version. It may need to be further reduced even if you like the new rates of fire. Particularly when you consider that the muzzle velocity of the QF13 6 was 488m/s and the 7.7 L27 was 465m/s and it was about 10-12 secs for the max range flight time of the shell against an aircraft moving at something like 44 m/s (100mph). 

"One source says that for example, in the busy week ending 27 April 1918, a total of 10 enemy aircraft were shot down and another 5 damaged, of a total of 2039 engaged."

Simulated flak fields for PWCG and Career-install after AAAmod.zip

Edited September 15, 2024 by Stonehouse
typo

[JG4_Moltke1871]

19 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

@JG4_Moltke1871

 

New attempt, I think this is better but it's subjective of course and I'm more WW2 than WW1. Give it a go when you can.

 

So, the changes:

• QF13 6cwt as above 1 gun is 8 rpm or 1 round every 7.5 sec. 4 guns is 32 rpm. 4 guns is equivalent to a round fired every 1.875 secs. So, I have given this a go.
• 7.7cm L/27 - as best I can tell this was a converted artillery piece. The field gun was 8 rpm. However, all the rates of fire quoted that I have found for the AAA gun is 20-25 rpm. I have not found any real historical references so assume the 20-25 is right (stock game value is 25). If I assumed 20 rpm and a 4-gun section this would be 1 round fired every 0.75 sec.  Taking your immersion comment in account however I decided to play balance things a bit. So, if I assume the Kaiser only had 2 guns per battery (which is historically wrong I believe) this means 1 round every 1.5 secs. Therefore, the German HAAA still has a rate of fire advantage but not the historical near 3x faster.
• During my reading I found the quote below plus another that said something like 4000 shells were fired to bring 1 aircraft down. Note that this quote below is talking about near the end of the war, so AAA and the aiming systems had improved quite a bit since 1914. Accordingly, I have further reduced the accuracy of WW1 heavy AAA in this version. It may need to be further reduced even if you like the new rates of fire. Particularly when you consider that the muzzle velocity of the QF13 6 was 488m/s and the 7.7 L27 was 465m/s and it was about 10-12 secs for the max range flight time of the shell against an aircraft moving at something like 44 m/s (100mph). 

"One source says that for example, in the busy week ending 27 April 1918, a total of 10 enemy aircraft were shot down and another 5 damaged, of a total of 2039 engaged."

Simulated flak fields for PWCG and Career-install after AAAmod.zip 15.76 kB · 5 downloads

I had time just started a quick mission with a Gotha, it seems I have more AAA than usual but it seems well balanced.

 I watch what the AAA is doing, it’s seems they firing a bit more fast as possible but not too fast to destroy the atmosphere. So far looks good, still have to see what the German side is doing 😉

[JG4_Moltke1871]

23 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

I had time just started a quick mission with a Gotha, it seems I have more AAA than usual but it seems well balanced.

 I watch what the AAA is doing, it’s seems they firing a bit more fast as possible but not too fast to destroy the atmosphere. So far looks good, still have to see what the German side is doing 😉

I made a careers test with a Breguet squad on a target “troop concentration”.

This target is well defended with eight Daimler trucks with 7,7 cm AAA’s.

 

 I make a level bombing with an attack altitude 2000 meters and I experienced a massive flak barrage, one of six planes down and minimum two were damaged including mine. At all it was a nice experience but I see one problem. The Breguet is maybe the most stable plane in Flying Circus, powerful and fast. I wouldn’t dare an attack like this with a vulnerable plane like FE2 and with this plane I can’t evade to much higher altitudes. 
The rate of fire I saw was about the same with British flak.

As a result of this test I would say it’s very difficult to balance that, what works good on one point maybe not works on another point with different conditions.

 I would give this mod one more try with slightly reduced rate of fire but maybe this is then the close to the common settings? 
Maybe another player have an opinion about that?

 

 

[Stonehouse]

1 hour ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

I would give this mod one more try with slightly reduced rate of fire but maybe this is then the close to the common settings? 
Maybe another player have an opinion about that?

 

Yes I don't think the difference between the times for German and British flak would be really noticeable. It's about 0.3 of a sec. 

 

Was it the volume of flak or the accuracy that was the issue?

 

Would I be better to again make it less accurate rather than reduce the rate of fire? 

 

Was the volume more immersive?

 

Remember that the stock rate of fire is 1 round every 2.4 secs and that currently the UK HAA is 1 round every 1.875 sec and the GE HAA is 1 per 1.5 secs. If I reduce the rate of fire much more, you won't really notice any difference from stock.

 

From a historical viewpoint it seems like I should probably try reducing accuracy again based on what I have read. In my quoted passage re 2018 flak during a busy week 10 a/c were shot down and 5 damaged out of 2039 engagements. So even if you lump the destroyed and damaged a/c together that's about 0.7% of the engagements resulted in an aircraft being shot down/damaged. 

 

<edit> I guess also if you flew the mission again with the mod off was your experience much different in terms of losses?

Edited September 17, 2024 by Stonehouse