Game crashes while starting 3d world

[migman]

I have had some issues for a while now with the game updates failing. Now for the first time it succeeded but when I start the mission the game crashes with the usual windows 7 notification. I am running windows 7 with a Nividia card gtx 1660. All my input devices are working correctly. I have no problem with other games such as DCS and ROF.  The only other thing to note was this updates installation phase was longer than usual.

 

Anybody able to help fix it ??

[AEthelraedUnraed]

9 hours ago, migman said:

I have had some issues for a while now with the game updates failing. Now for the first time it succeeded but when I start the mission the game crashes with the usual windows 7 notification. I am running windows 7 with a Nividia card gtx 1660. All my input devices are working correctly. I have no problem with other games such as DCS and ROF.  The only other thing to note was this updates installation phase was longer than usual.

 

Anybody able to help fix it ??

Windows 7 is End-Of-Life, and is in fact not safe anymore. Your system might become compromised by hackers or viruses simply by being connected to the internet. Read for instance https://www.techadvisor.com/news/windows/windows-7-2021-dangerous-3807335/. You really, really should upgrade.

 

Besides the safety problem of still using Windows 7, there's also a good chance that this is the cause of your game not updating and starting anymore. Although the "About" page still lists Windows 7 among the system requirements, I'd be surprised if the Developers actually still support it. Drivers may simply not work anymore with some of the newer functions of IL2, and new drivers won't generally be released for an EOL operating system.

 

Honestly, upgrade to Windows 10.

Edited October 21, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Pict]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Windows 7 is End-Of-Life, and is in fact not safe anymore....blah blah bla

 

It's not logical to assume this is caused by Win 7. Like many many people here, I too run Win 7 and I am not having this problem. So it is not automatically Win 7 at fault.

 

I stopped updating Win 7 years ago & I do not run any anti virus or any of the MS defender junk. I just run a thing called simplewall and I have zero problem with viruses or security, plus it has a super light footprint unlike most of the security software many people think is helping them And it's free and it's on github, so no nasties like adware or spyware in it as everyone can see what's in it.

 

Tip for anyone; never allow your PC to log onto the internet or lan automatically. Make sure your firewall is well sorted / configured and running first before manually connecting.

 

Point in case. Years ago during my involvement with the RAF they ran at least two version of Windows behind what was currently supported by MS. They were still runnig Win 3, (not 3.1) when Win 98 was warming up for launch. That is the whole force, all of their bases world wide, on any PC that ran Widows. The reason for doing this was for stability and wait for it...security.

 

They ran some other computer systems with other operating systems, but that's another story.

 

11 hours ago, migman said:

Anybody able to help fix it ??

 

There is a standard procedure to go through if an update fails...I can't rember just what that is off the top of the head, but it's likey to be in the FAQ section which is the second item at the top of the boards here

 

One thing I would not jump up and do is change my operating system just because one update of IL2 BOX failed..

 

These may be of interest to you...from the FAQ set up & settings page

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2074-game-setup-and-settings-faq/#faq13

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2074-game-setup-and-settings-faq/#faq5

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2074-game-setup-and-settings-faq/#faq20

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pict

[AEthelraedUnraed]

23 minutes ago, Pict said:

It's not logical to assume this is caused by Win 7. Like many many people here, I too run Win 7 and I am not having this problem. So it is not automatically Win 7 at fault.

It's also not logical to assume that modern software will keep working on an outdated system. It may well be that Win7 happens to work for you, but the OP has other hardware and drivers, and there's a very good possibility that one of those drivers simply doesn't work anymore with IL2. It might be something different, but it might also be not and frankly it isn't worth looking further on an outdated system.

 

26 minutes ago, Pict said:

I stopped updating Win 7 years ago & I do not run any anti virus or any of the MS defender junk. I just run a thing called simplewall and I have zero problem with viruses or security

Honestly, I hope for you that stays that way. My experience in IT however tells me that sooner or later you will get a virus. If you're running an outdated system, it's not a question of "if" but "when".*

 

* The exception to the rule are corporate systems run and maintained by people who exactly know what they're doing, such as the RAF network you mention. At the university where I work, there's a number of Win7 and even XP systems, and I'm fully satisfied that these are safe. However, if you're a private consumer, there's not a single good reason to remain on Windows 7, and that gets even worse if you're not very well versed into modern PC security.

 

31 minutes ago, Pict said:

Tip for anyone; never allow your PC to log onto the internet or lan automatically. Make sure your firewall is well sorted / configured and running first before manually connecting.

Or just use an updated system which has a pretty good and updated firewall running automatically....

[Pict]

55 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The exception to the rule are corporate systems run and maintained by people who exactly know what they're doing, such as the RAF network you mention.

 

If only you knew how wrong you are  I'm still not at liberty to explain why I find that so very funny, sorry.

 

We are never going to agree on this. These built in firewalls you mention are porus, not watertight at all and the worst thing they let though is the like of Windows update and all that goes with it. These operating system files are the ideal vehicle for any and anyone of a malisious nature. 

 

Anyhow lets leave it at that shall we? 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pict

[AEthelraedUnraed]

21 hours ago, Pict said:

If only you knew how wrong you are  I'm still not at liberty to explain why I find that so very funny, sorry.

Perhaps I was a bit too soon in assuming they're competent - I mean, we are talking about the RAF after all

 

21 hours ago, Pict said:

Anyhow lets leave it at that shall we? 

I know I'm likely not going to convince you, but for the sake of @migman and his digital safety, I'll once more re-iterate my point in the hope that I can convince at least him to migrate to Windows 10. As someone who works in IT, I'll state as clear as I can that, at least for general consumers, that no, it's not safe and no, it's not ok to remain on Windows 7.

 

Now, I will admit that there are valid reasons to remain on Win7 or even XP. Such as when a Win10 license of the research software you're running costs €40,000, or when you're using an outdated measuring device that only has drivers for a specific Windows version and a new measuring device costs €2,000,000 (excluding the €1500 heavily overpriced outdated Win10 system that you have to buy alongside it, or the €300 an hour rate for the uneducated ill-prepared IT guy they send along to install it, or my own rate as the IT guy who has to fix the things that their own IT guy messed up). Or for continuity on a critical system that you know works, such as how much of the US government and banking system still uses an outdated 50s-era programming language for much of their mainframe. Given that most consumers don't have scientific instruments at home, let alone run critical systems that could start off WW3 if they fail, I think it's not only irresponsible but actually dangerous to imply that it's safe to remain on Windows 7, especially without a running antivirus program. As stated, I work in the IT business, but if you won't take my word for it, then have a look at the following sites:

https://www.techadvisor.com/news/windows/windows-7-2021-dangerous-3807335/

https://www.ricksdailytips.com/is-windows-7-really-unsafe-to-use/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2020/jan/16/im-still-on-windows-7-what-should-i-do

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/08/08/stop-using-windows-7-fbi-says-how-to-get-windows-10-for-free/?sh=7dee44407805

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-7-end-of-life-security-risks-and-what-you-should-do-next/

 

All written by IT professionals.

 

22 hours ago, Pict said:

These built in firewalls you mention are porus, not watertight at all

The buit-in Windows firewall is pretty good at blocking malicious incoming connections. If there's some malicious application running on your PC that initiates an outgoing connection, then that connection is usually the least of your problems. If a malware application is able to elevate to admin rights - which on an outdated system, unfixed bugs will eventually make possible even if the user does everything right, then all your carefully built-up firewalls will be switched off in an instant.

 

This is the reason that with outdated systems, if you really have to run them, you should externally enforce your firewall by using a closed-off network. As one of our security measures, we use a whitelist for our Win7 and XP systems. That means that they're physically unable to communicate with any website/server/device other than a handful that are manually enabled. Any attempt to reach a non-whitelisted address is blocked by the network itself.

 

 

Now, the biggest security threat is usually located between the keyboard and chair. I suppose that *if* you only visit a select few known sites, use a good virus scanner and firewall, don't use e-mail, don't download and install any new applications, only use your own USB storage devices and never ones that may have been inserted into a different PC, don't do online banking and make regular back-ups of your critical data, your chances of getting hacked or running malware are low and the damage will be limited if it does go wrong. If you do do some of these things, then you really should upgrade to Windows 10. It's free.

 

If you're unsure of how to progress or still have some questions, this forum is full of people who are eager to help

[Pict]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Perhaps I was a bit too soon in assuming they're competent - I mean, we are talking about the RAF after all

 

While I won't go into specifics, you seem to have a reasonable grasp of what I found so amusing 

 

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Now, I will admit that there are valid reasons to remain on Win7

 

Valid reason enough would be the individuals interpretation & choice. Personal Computer (PC) should be a decent clue as how this should pan out, no?

 

Anyone who has Windows 7, has already had all of the information you are churning out and more relentlessly shoved at them by MS, therefore if someone is still running Window 7 it is because they want to and have long since made that choice. My computer, my choice is how that works, end of.

 

Anyhow IL2 BOX runs on Windows 7 so it's not the issue here at all.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, Pict said:

Valid reason enough would be the individuals interpretation & choice. Personal Computer (PC) should be a decent clue as how this should pan out, no?

True - it is a personal choice, like not getting vaccinated for covid. Both are personal choices that can have an impact on both yourself and others (hacked insecure systems are the major source of further hacking / malware attempts - criminals are generally not so stupid as to use a PC in their own home, for the very real threat the police tracks down the IP address used). But in both cases I wholeheartedly support an individual's right to decide for himself what to do.

 

4 hours ago, Pict said:

Anyhow IL2 BOX runs on Windows 7 so it's not the issue here at all.

This is where you're wrong. Given that IL2 runs on your system, Win7 itself is not the issue, no. But there's a ton of drivers involved with running any software. If IL2 stops working immediately after an update, and this same update does work for other people, then that tells me that the issue is likely related to hard- or software that cannot deal with some newly introduced functionality. In other words, a driver issue. And on Win7, it's unlikely that the drivers for much of the hardware support all of the more modern functions. So the fact that IL2 runs on *your* PC tells exactly zero about whether IL2 should run on another Win7 PC.

 

Bottom line is, if you're choosing to use an outdated system, you cannot expect any software to still run after an update. You can update your games and hope for the best, but really you should never ever expect things to keep working, just because they did in the past.

 

For the OP, he might try to do a full re-installation of IL2. If it's anything not system related, that'll fix it. If it still doesn't work after that, then upgrading to Win10 is the only solution. Which in my book is the only way to proceed, anyhow.

[Pict]

8 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I wholeheartedly support an individual's right to decide for himself what to do.

 

If that really was the case then all you had to do was back off and let it happen. But you didn't did you, you dived right in and went further and futher off topic.

 

I think the modern expression for what you are doing is "vitrue signalling" and in the same way that "political correctness" is anything but correct, I think that your signalling lacks any virtue.

 

8 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

For the OP, he might try to do a full re-installation of IL2. If it's anything not system related, that'll fix it. If it still doesn't work after that, then upgrading to Win10 is the only solution. Which in my book is the only way to proceed, anyhow.

 

That is just not true and can be proven to be not true.

 

The problem could very easily be hardware related where the downloaded IL2 update data is corrupted by either a probematic hard drive sector or and area of RAM that's not often accessed. These issues are not solved a full IL2 re-install, nor do they require changing the operating system.

 

An IT profesional worth his salt would understand this, but you are advising someone to make drastic changes to their PC without even making any effort to diagnose thier problem. In the medical world they call this quackery.

 

And as I've pointed out a few times already, I and many others use IL2 BOX on Windows 7 without any issues whatsoever at all.

 

==========================

 

You can virtue signal all you like, but to offer advice that is demonstrably not true is sheer malevolance in my book.

 

That's it from me, I asked you to leave it at that already, but it would appear that such a simple request is beyond your capability. So be it, I won't ask again as I have other things to do with my time, like have fun with some of the light hearted people around here.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

As a parting (I won't re-vistit this) bit of fun, I'll say that where I come from people who "virtue signal" would get sent packing with swift kick in the back wheels*. 

 

* Australian slang, best described, or in this case imagined in the following road sign picture of a Kangaroo & an Ostrich. The back wheels need to be imagined as they have been displaced by the Ostrich's foot.

 

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, Pict said:

If that really was the case then all you had to do was back off and let it happen. But you didn't did you, you dived right in and went further and futher off topic.

Same can be said of you, after I confirmed your right to make your own choices.

 

But this is not about Pict. This is about you, @migman. The reason you still use Windows 7 may be that you're simply ill-informed. It's your data on the line, and if you're doing any online banking, your money too. I cannot in good conscience let someone risk his whole fortune without making very sure he's aware of the potential consequences. Funny Pict mentions quacksalving, because you might see it as a sort of Hippocratic oath.

 

The fact that Windows 7 is dangerous to keep using is not just something that I say. It's what pretty much every IT expert on the planet says. Relying on those very few people who tell otherwise is very unwise. It's funny Pict mentions quacksalving for a second reason too, because a good analogy to remaining on Windows 7 would be visiting a fortune teller to help with cancer treatment, which some people also tend to do. The fortune teller will tell you that everything's OK and you'll be fine, and for a while this may seem true, but eventually all the cancer treatment you missed out on will have its concequences.

 

2 hours ago, Pict said:

That is just not true and can be proven to be not true.

 

The problem could very easily be hardware related where the downloaded IL2 update data is corrupted by either a probematic hard drive sector or and area of RAM that's not often accessed. These issues are not solved a full IL2 re-install, nor do they require changing the operating system.

If you were to have faulty RAM, I would expect other symptoms. Regular Blue Screens Of Death for one, and definitely not IL2 as the only application that crashes, and definitely not IL2 that crashes each and every time you try to run it, and definitely not at the exact same time on mission start. If it were a faulty harddisk I'd also not expect IL2 to fail as the only application (it would be extremely unlikely that it would fail exactly during the update process, so the sector will likely have been bad for a while, in which case a sector rarely fails on its own), and IL2 has built-in checksum validation that will detect it if there's any change to the data files (mainly to disable tampering with the game files, but it'll work fine for corrupted files) which will make IL2 throw an error rather than crash "with the usual Windows 7 notification". Also, a good installer or even Windows should detect it if the write operation fails and even if the data is not successfully written (checksums). Fun fact: Windows 10 has a background task that will automatically attempt to detect and fix faulty data when your system is idle.

 

The things that lead me to my diagnosis are:

- IL2 worked perfectly before the update.

- IL2 doesn't work after the update.

- You don't mention any other actions you've done besides updating IL2.

- You don't mention other apparent issues with your PC.

 

That means that, in my book, there's a 95% chance it's one of the following things:

- The update has gone wrong and IL2 has become corrupted. Fixed by re-installing IL2.

- IL2 has, since the update, become uncompatible with your combination of hardware and software (i.e. drivers. What Pict doesn't understand, is that this differs from system to system, and that the fact that Win7 works with some people says nothing about whether it works with every Win7 system).

 

And again, this comes from someone who fixes PC problems (both hardware and software) for a living (and without trying to sound all too self-flattering, I'm pretty damn good at it and usually the go-to person for when my colleagues can't solve something). Pict may have a different opinion, but again, there's the qualsalver thing that he brought up.

 

In my experience, the major reason that people stick with Windows 7 is that they're satisfied with it, and unsure (or perhaps even afraid) of what Win10 will change. If you're one of those people, there's no need to worry. Win10 is pretty close to Win7 in the way things work (luckily, they abandoned the UI disaster that was Windows 8), and with a few easy fixes the difference is really minimal. If you can work with Win7, you can work with Win10 without any major problems. Another possible reason might be a fear of losing data or applications that stop working. If you upgrade, it's possible to keep your data. Applications are a slightly bigger problem, but most Win7 applications will run fine on Win10, and the very few that don't will usually have a Win10 version available. Another reason might be a fear that ageing hardware won't run Win10 well. In fact, Win10 is slightly faster than Win7, so if Win7 runs, Win10 will work even better. If for some hardware reason it isn't possible to run Win10, the upgrade program will detect that before actually installing Win7 so it definitely won't screw up your computer. Yet another possible reason to remain on Win7, and the easiest to refute, is the cost of having to buy another license. In fact, if you already own a Win7 license, upgrading to Win10 is free (for the exact reason that Microsoft recognises how important it is). One more reason is the all-hated Updates that Windows 10 does, and an outdated Win7 system no longer. If you don't want Windows to periodically bother you with new Features™ then there's a Windows version that only installs security updates and nothing else. Finally, there's the upgrade process itself. It should be pretty easy and smooth, but yes, you will have to run it yourself. Perhaps there's some family member who can do it, and otherwise I want to re-iterate that there's a forum full of people who can help you .

 

And finally, since ostriches are apparently all the rage, I'd like to close off with one as well:

[migman]

I still have the problem even after a complete re-install. Maybe (and I'm hoping the devs might be able to answer this one) Il2 no longer plays nice with 7 or directx 9 anymore so if I want to play I will have to upgrade to 10 ........yeech