Aircraft Mod Dates

September 22, 2021

@Semor76 brought to my attention the fact that Stukas can be armed with underwing cannon way too early. There are probably a lot of weapon/equipment mods that should be date limited. Opening this thread for input. If you know the mod and you know the correct dates, please post.

September 22, 2021

Then I´ll start ^^

Junkers Ju-87 D-5: Schlachtfliegerversion 2x20mm Cannons replacement for the MG-17 in the wings - Mai 1943 – September 1944

G-1 and G-2: Panzerknacker 2x3,7cm Flak 18 under the wings - Dezember 1943 – Juli 1944

Edited September 22, 2021 by Semor76

September 23, 2021

This seems like another thing were you could piggyback off of the research done for vanilla career pretty well. I can try moving some files over to my laptop (I've been slowly tweaking your airfield locations to be more similar to vanilla career for a little bit now) and see if I can easily find the associated dates in there.

September 24, 2021

17 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

This seems like another thing were you could piggyback off of the research done for vanilla career pretty well. I can try moving some files over to my laptop (I've been slowly tweaking your airfield locations to be more similar to vanilla career for a little bit now) and see if I can easily find the associated dates in there.

I know that the 1C career has that information, but no idea how to access it.

September 24, 2021

It might be in the same files that Luke directed us to extract for the airfield locations.

September 25, 2021

Where is the tool to extract the game files again? I don't mind pitching in to help get at this data in an automated way.

September 26, 2021

unGTP-IL2 is what it is called. Not the original link but one to hand is

Edited September 26, 2021 by Stonehouse

September 26, 2021

scg.gtp appears to be the key one. Once extracted, there is a folder luascripts/worldobjects/planes, with files for each plane. Those have [WeaponMode=] sections that appear to have the weapon modifications. Then inside scg/scripts are scripts for each of the career modes. 0tvds.cfg has each of the four current standard careers, showing which number is which career. For example, 13 = Battle of Moscow. For each career, there is a planes-to-missions config file, e.g. 13planes-to-missions.cfg is Moscow's mapping. This has a section for each mission type: intercept, free hunt, etc. Within each mission type is a section for each aircraft that can fly that mission:

	[plane="Ju 87 D-3"]
		config="LuaScripts\WorldObjects\Planes\Ju87D3.txt"
		[period]
			period="1941.01.01","1943.03.01"
			plane_eff=0.5
			fuel=983911,2.34
			modifications_required=0b001001
			modifications_denied=0b100000
			ammo_eff=4,1.0
		[end]
		[period]
			period="1943.03.02","1946.01.01"
			plane_eff=0.5
			fuel=983911,2.34
			modifications_required=0b101001
			modifications_denied=0b000000
			ammo_eff=9,1.0
		[end]
	[end]

So within Battle of Moscow, for the "Enemy Armor Column Attack", from the beginning until March 1 1943, there are 2 modifications required and one denied, while from March 2 1943 until the end there are 3 required and none denied.

From what I can tell they all seem to have 6 flags in those blocks, and 6 weapon mods numbered 0-5. Map the mods to bits and it looks like weapon mod 5 is denied until March 1 1943, then required after that. For the Ju-87 plane file:

[WeaponMode=5]
	WMname="ju87d3_bk37"
...

So in the Battle of Moscow, for Engage Enemy Armor Column, the Ju-87 can't have the bk37s until March 2, and from then on seem to be required for all such missions. The other two flags correspond to the armor and the default plane setup with the MG17s.

I can look into writing a tool to parse these and see if it holds up (do any planes have more or fewer than 6 weapon mods?), then process it to find the earliest date each mod is allowed.

September 26, 2021

8 hours ago, grcurmudgeon said:

.............. (do any planes have more or fewer than 6 weapon mods?),......................

They do.

eg's

I-16 has 5

Spit XIV has 8.

September 27, 2021

Thanks, I'll make sure that piece of the puzzle is flexible.

September 28, 2021

Been writing code to analyze this stuff. Merging the data to get a picture of required and denied mods for a given period. Two points of confusion around the bit masks:

The number of bits for required and denied is not the same. I would have though that of they mapped to plane mods they would be (see Moscow entries for La5 s8).

The number of bits does not match the number of plane mods. Again, looking at the La5 s8, it has seven mods (0 through 6 with zero the default). Some of the bitmasks are 8 bits after "0b", others are 6.

The conclusion that I am coming to is that the bit masks do not map 1:1 with plane mods. If that is so, then life becomes a bit more challenging.

I had the thought that perhaps leading zeroes were not represented, and that may still be the case. However, how do I explain a mask of 0b000000 if that is true?

This is an example from the Hurricane:

modifications_required=0b10000011
modifications_denied=0b001111100

You can see that denied has 1 more bit than required. The Hurricane has the default and 8 mods, for a total of 9 entries.

For the la5 S8:

modifications_required=0b00000000
modifications_denied=0b1010000

It has one more required than denied.

If the bits do not correspond to "WeaponMode" entries, then what do they map to?

Edited September 28, 2021 by PatrickAWlson

September 28, 2021

I've got everything read in and am about to work on the processing. I'm not worried about the 0 positions, I'm worried about the 1s, and they seem to match up. The question is how do they store and write out their bitmasks in their tools? Are some of the leading 0s left around after editing where they removed a mod? I still suspect the 1s match up if read right-to-left, but I have not done the actual mapping across the data I've read in yet. I'd be more worried if there was a "1" farther left than the mods would indicate.

The other thing to watch out for are the Russian planes that have "WeaponMode=24" which is the female flight crew. I haven't figured out if that can just be ignored, since it does not appear in the bitmasks.

And a third fun bit is that the required/denied are per mission type. I'm not as concerned with required, it appears that denied is more important for knowing that a mod is not available until a certain time period. But does that time period vary per mission type, and if so does it matter or do we just want the earliest date it was available? At least the campaigns don't overlap, yet, but what does that mean, say, for Hispano availability on a Hurricane?

Yeah, need to pay some attention to mission types (first bit mask is mods required, second is mods denied), here we see overlapping ranges:

 '"Fw 190 A-8"': {'"1941.01.01","1944.06.12"': ['0b000101', '0b100000'],
                  '"1941.01.01","1945.01.10"': ['0b000000', '0b1100100'],
                  '"1941.01.01","1946.01.01"': ['0b000011', '0b100100'],
                  '"1944.01.01","1944.09.01"': ['0b001001', '0b100100'],
                  '"1944.01.01","1946.01.01"': ['0b100101', '0b1011010'],
                  '"1944.06.13","1944.09.01"': ['0b001001', '0b100100'],
                  '"1944.09.02","1944.10.01"': ['0b000101', '0b100000'],
                  '"1944.09.02","1944.12.31"': ['0b000101', '0b100000'],
                  '"1944.10.02","1946.01.01"': ['0b100101', '0b1011010'],
                  '"1945.01.01","1946.01.01"': ['0b000000', '0b001100'],
                  '"1945.01.11","1946.01.01"': ['0b1100001', '0b011010']},

Here we see most entries with 6 bits, but three "denied" that have 7. 7 would be:

[WeaponMode=6]
	WMname="fw190a8_RemMG131"

So those 3 entries are the only ones that deny the MG131. Which means the MG131 is allowed starting January 11, 1945, but only for some mission types, as some have an exclusion for January 1, 1944 through January 1, 1946. But I need to add something here so I know which campaign / mission types.

Edited September 28, 2021 by grcurmudgeon

September 28, 2021

I am only interested in not used in the period, so I am not worried about per mission. PWCG already has its own way of doing that.

I wrote code that, for each time period, merged all of the required across all mission types, effectively giving me all required across all mission types for a time period - which is what I want. I also merged the denied, being interested in not denied, which indicates available. I was working the final piece of mating the bitmaps with the mods.

Appreciate the help. Would never even have started this without it.

September 29, 2021

Got a complete run in. This is the Typhoon:

typhoonmkib
1941.01.01","1944.06.05"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: false
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1941.01.01","1944.06.27"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: false
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.06.06","1944.06.27"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: false
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.06.28","1944.09.01"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.09.01","1944.12.15"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.09.02","1944.12.15"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.09.02","1945.02.07"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1944.12.16","1945.02.07"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: true
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1945.02.08","1946.01.01"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: true
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: true
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true
1945.06.06","1944.06.27"
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: false
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: false
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: false
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: false
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true

September 29, 2021

Analysis Complete

This is what I am going with based on analysis of the mod data available in game. Any planes not in the list have all mods available immediately. For those in the list, true means available all the time. Where there is a dat e that is the mod introduction date. I am not convinced that these dates are as much historically accurate as they are "make them available in the GB campaign on this date".

If you have any better data on these or other mods, please note them in this thread.

bf109f4
default: true
bf109f4_MG15115x2: 1942.5.02
bf109f4_SC50x4: true
bf109f4_SC250x1: true
bf109f4_ArmouredWindScreen: true
bf109f4_RemoveHeadRest: true
bf109f4_MG15120x2: 1942.5.02

bf109g2
default: true
bf109g2_MG15120x2: true
bf109g2_SC50x4: true
bf109g2_SC250x1: true
bf109g2_GlassHeadRest: 1942.11.13
bf109g2_RemoveHeadRest: true

bf109g6
default: true
Bf109G6_MK108: 1944.08.01
Bf109G6_MG15120x2: true
Bf109G6_SC50x4: true
Bf109G6_SC250x1: true
Bf109G6_GlassHeadRest: true
Bf109G6_RemoveHeadRest: true
Bf109G6_PeilG6: true
Bf109G6_DropTank: true

bf109g6late
default: true
Bf109G6Late_MK108: true
Bf109G6Late_MG15120x2: 1944.09.02
Bf109G6Late_SD70x4: 1944.09.02
Bf109G6Late_SC250x1: 1944.09.02
Bf109G6Late_BR21x2: 1944.09.02
Bf109G6Late_MW50: true
Bf109G6Late_ErlaCanopy: true
bf109G6Late_DropTank: true

bf109k4
default: true
bf109k4_MG15120x2: true
bf109k4_SC250x1: true
bf109k4_SC500x1: true
bf109k4_DB605DC: 1944.12.16
bf109k4_DropTank: true

fw190a5
default: true
fw190a5_SC50x4: true
fw190a5_SC250x1: true
fw190a5_SC500x1: true
fw190a5_MGFF_90: 1943.05.26
fw190a5_MG15120x4: 1943.05.26
fw190a5_U17: 1943.05.26

fw190a6
default: true
fw190a6_Sturmjager: true
fw190a6_G3: 1944.10.02
fw190a6_G3R5: 1944.10.02
fw190a6_Bombs: 1944.09.02
fw190a6_BR21x2: true
fw190a6_RemMG151: true
fw190a6_SetMG17: true

fw190a8
default: true
fw190a8_MK108: true
fw190a8_ETC501: true
fw190a8_BR21x2: true
fw190a8_Armour: true
fw190a8_F8G8: 1944.01.01
fw190a8_RemMG131: true

fw190d9
default: true
fw190d9_SD70x4: true
fw190d9_SC250x1: true
fw190d9_SC500x1: true
fw190d9_BR21x2: true
fw190d9_R4Mx26: 1945.03.18
fw190d9_GyroGunsight: 1945.02.08
fw190d9_BubbleCanopy: true


hs129b2
default: true
Hs129B2_MG15120x2: 1943.07.02
Hs129B2_MG17x4: 1943.07.02
Hs129B2_MK101: true
Hs129B2_MK103: 1943.07.02
Hs129B2_PeilG6: 1943.01.02
Hs129B2_Mirror: true

hurricanemkii
default: true
HurricaneMkII_Browning303x4: true
HurricaneMkII_HispanoMKIIx4: 1943.01.02
HurricaneMkII_VickersS40x2: 1943.01.02
HurricaneMkII_Vickers_Armour: 1943.01.02
HurricaneMkII_UBx2_ShVAKx2: 1942.04.18
HurricaneMkII_14lb_Boost: 1943.01.02
HurricaneMkII_Mirror: true
HurricaneMkII_AirCleaner: true
HurricaneMkII_Jettison_Fuel_Tanks: true

il2m42
default: true
il2m42_VYa23x2: true
il2m42_Sh37x2: 1942.12.12
il2m42_FAB250x2: true
il2m42_RBS82_ROFS132x8: true
il2m42_ShKAS_trt: true

il2m43
default: true
il2m43_VYa23x2: true
il2m42_NS37x2: 1943.07.02
il2m43_FAB250x2: true
il2m43_RBS82_ROFS132x4: true
il2m43_PTAB2515: 1943.06.02

ju87d3
default: true
ju87d3_siren: true
ju87d3_sc1800: true
ju87d3_armour: true
ju87d3_wb81b: true
ju87d3_bk37: 1943.03.02

la5s8
default: true
la5s8_FAB50x2: true
la5s8_FAB100x2: true
la5s8_RPK10: true
la5s8_Windscreen: 1942.12.12
la5s8_AmmoScheme: true
la5s8_M82F: 1942.12.12

me262a
default: true
Me262A_Ez42: 1945.03.18
Me262A_R4M: 1945.03.18
Me262A_ArmoredHeadRest: true
Me262A_BackArmor: true
Me262A_RemoveFrontArmor: true
Me262A_RemoveInnerCannons: true
Me262A_BombLoad: true
Me262A_AutoValve: 1944.12.16

mig3s24
default: true
MiG3s24_ROS82x6: true
MiG3s24_FAB50_FAB100x2: true
MiG3s24_BKx2: true
MiG3s24_BSx2: 1941.10.02
MiG3s24_ShVAKx2: 1942.05.02

p47d28
default: true
P47D28_M250x6: true
P47D28_M250x4: true
P47D28_AddAmmo: true
P47D28_GroundAttack: true
P47D28_Gunsight: 1944.09.02
P47D28_MN28: 1944.09.02
P47D28_Mirror: true
P47D28_150gradeFuel: 1944.09.02

p51d15
default: true
P51D15_M250x4: true
P51D15_AddAmmo: true
P51D15_M64x2: true
P51D15_M65x2: true
P51D15_Rockets: 1944.07.20
P51D15_Gunsight: 1944.07.20
P51D15_150gradeFuel: 1944.07.20
P51D15_MN28: 1944.07.20
P51D15_Mirror: true

spitfiremkixe
default: true
SpitfireMkIXe_500x1: true
SpitfireMkIXe_250x2: 1944.06.10
SpitfireMkIXe_RP3x2: 1944.06.10
SpitfireMkIXe_GyroGunsight: true
SpitfireMkIXe_Mirror: true
SpitfireMkIXe_Wingtips: true
SpitfireMkIXe_Merlin70: true
SpitfireMkIXe_150GradeFuel: 1944.05.05
SpitfireMkIXe_DropTank: true

tempestmkvs2
default: true
TempestMkVs2_500x2: 1945.05.03
TempestMkVs2_1000x2: 1945.05.03
TTempestMkVs2_11lb_Boost: 1944.06.10

typhoonmkib
default: true
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkI: true
TyphoonMkIb_DoubleRocketsMkI: 1944.09.01
TyphoonMkIb_RocketsMkIII: 1944.12.16
TyphoonMkIb_GunsightNoReflector: true
TyphoonMkIb_4BladesAirscrew: true
TyphoonMkIb_11lb_Boost: 1944.09.01
TyphoonMkIb_AdditionalArmor: true
TyphoonMkIb_DomeDustDeflector: 1944.06.28
TyphoonMkIb_UnderwingFuelTanks: true

September 30, 2021

I still think the 150 octane wasnt used before 1945 in our mainland europe theatre, but I foud a way to add and remove mods in your script so I wont complain ?

I am looking forward to the historical progression of the mods. Makes the progression in the career more engaging ??

Edited September 30, 2021 by Sandmarken

September 30, 2021

I think there definitely are some odd things in that timeline, perhaps it is Russian front centric and really tweaked to suit the campaign in question. For instance I believe but could be wrong that the MkII Hurricane got 12 .303s in the IIB in the latter part of 1940/early 1941. The MkIIC with 4 Hispano's was early/mid 1941. The MkIID with twin 40mm S cannons was late 1941/early 1942. Tropical dust filters were around for the Middle East by 1941 I think. I suspect the Russians got stuff that wasn't the latest so experienced a lag between introduction to the RAF and actually getting the tech in Russia. I guess that if you wanted to be really accurate you would almost need a tech timeline per map/theatre. eg RAF gyro gun sights were first prototyped in early 1943. So if you eventually plan a "Rhubarb" era campaign on the Normandy map leading up to D-Day this would become relevant as early Spitfire IXs (think they were refitted MkVc's) would not have had the sight. Merlin 70 didn't arrive until sometime in spring 1944. Ditto the Typhoon which didn't get a 4 blade prop until early 1944. ie the tech timeline for these aircraft suit the campaign they are for.

Guessing the Luftwaffe also was a bit like that and the latest new stuff went where it was needed most first and other places made do until field refits could be done or aircraft losses replaced with new. Not sure about the USAAF side of things.

September 30, 2021

The dates are definitely centered on the maps and not necessarily actual dates. I already had correct info on the Hurricanes in RAF use so I used that. For all intent RAF Hurricanes will use 4x20mm for any dates we are likely to see. I am using 1C's info for the VVS.

Appreciate the info on the gyro sites and Merlin 70 and others. I will incorporate that.

The 1C dates are good for the LW, probably because LW activity spans across maps from 1941-1945. Modelling the FW variants was a b****. The Hurricane was the biggest oddity because of dual use by VVS and RAF. I did not see similar issues with the Spitfire Mk V.

October 1, 2021

going off of this thread

It seems like perhaps we should have gyros for the P-51D sooner? Even if its giving us a K-14 to represent a british gunsight.

I'm not sure from where I got this idea but I was always under the impression that all D models usually had gyros.

January 15, 2022

On 9/30/2021 at 9:41 AM, Stonehouse said:

I think there definitely are some odd things in that timeline, perhaps it is Russian front centric and really tweaked to suit the campaign in question. For instance I believe but could be wrong that the MkII Hurricane got 12 .303s in the IIB in the latter part of 1940/early 1941. The MkIIC with 4 Hispano's was early/mid 1941. The MkIID with twin 40mm S cannons was late 1941/early 1942.

Note that Luke is doing some adjustments to the official career data based on updated information, and is looking for more. Might be worth another pass, not sure exactly when the official game data will get updated. But in the very first post he specifically calls out the 4x Hispano MkIIC Hurricane for Stalingrad.

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