Back in the Sherman

[LachenKrieg]

Well after all the heated discussion, I was intrigued to download the latest patch and jump back in the Sherman, and I have to say I almost forgot how beautifully modeled these vehicles are. Tank Crew could probably use a sound update for the different vehicles, their guns, and explosions, but the models are very well done.

 

My first couple of runs in the QMB were in a PzIV shooting at a Sherman. I was unable to penetrate the front of the Sherman at 1000 m, but in general the DM seems to be working much better in SP game play than what it was a couple of months ago. The PzIV also did not explode with every hit, but still quite often. I would say between 80 to 90% of the time.

 

Next I reversed the scenario with me in a Sherman. No problems one-tapping the PzIV at 1000 m. Then I drove around to have the PzIV AI shoot at me. Again the DM seems to be much better than what it was, but there were still some questionable issues. Like taking a shot on the bow gunner's side, and killing the driver without killing the bow gunner. I don't know if that is possible, and I'm not saying it is, or isn't, just an observation. But I was also able to get the model to show expected damage as well with good variation. In other words, mechanical systems in the area of the shot could be knocked out or damaged, and crew could be killed or just injured. So definitely some improvement, but still a work in progress it seems.

 

Then I changed the PzIV out for an AI PzIII, while I drove around to let it shoot at me. Again, from the side and rear at <700 m, the DM seemed to be reasonable, producing a wide variety of damage/crew injuries. But I think the DM is still out a bit as the PIII was able to penetrate the Sherman's front pretty easily at 500 m or less.

 

All in all, greatly improved, but could still use updating/more complexity in the DM. The DM in terms of gun/armor performance is what makes the SIM real.

 

I haven't used Tank Crew for a while now, so was wondering if anyone can add to the following:

 

A couple times while I was driving the Sherman, I noticed the session did not end when the driver was kIA. On one occasion after taking several penetrating hits where the driver, commander, engine, and suspension were killed/knocked out (dark red), the bow gunner, loader, and main gunner stayed in the tank and kept fighting. After opening the bow gunners hatch, a repairable system even fixed itself. Normally if the driver, or the engine are killed/knocked out, all other crew members bail and the session ends. Has the game mechanic for this been changed?

 

Also, for the longest time, the community had asked that station settings not be changed as the single player changes from station to station. Although they did partially address this at one point (except for main gun zoom level), it seems that all settings reset again when the player switches between stations. Did the Dev's change this back again on purpose, or is this some type of bug?

 

Settings that change as the player switches between stations and the way the gun lock feature works were my two biggest complaints about the Tank Crew.

 

As a single player, you should be able to set each station the way you want (direction of gun, zoom level, binocular view... ect), and then switch between each station as need be. You should not have to readjust everything again once you return to a station you had previously set up. And the player should be able to use the command menu to order tanks in his platoon to prepare for battle, or lock the gun for transport.

 

All in all, it was a good session back. Looking forward to further trials.

[JG1_Wittmann]

One thing DM/FM  model that is wrong  in  in a german tank,   if your loader get's killed,  has happened to me twice recently, your reload time is then @ 45 seconds.   That seems way excessive.   I could see halving your rate of fire ,  possibly at the extreme,   or slowing it  slightly more if you were trying to fire off round after round.  What happens now is you go to 45 sec reload 

[LachenKrieg]

37 minutes ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

One thing DM/FM  model that is wrong  in  in a german tank,   if your loader get's killed,  has happened to me twice recently, your reload time is then @ 45 seconds.   That seems way excessive.   I could see halving your rate of fire ,  possibly at the extreme,   or slowing it  slightly more if you were trying to fire off round after round.  What happens now is you go to 45 sec reload 

Do you know if that happens in all German tanks?

 

And are we now back to readjusting all the setting for each station after we leave and go back again? That is a major letdown if we are.

[JG1_Wittmann]

Have not tried anything since update released.  I know this is like this in the Panther, and Tiger.  Have had loaders killed  in each in the last week,  @ 45 secs to reload a round.

I didn't see much mention o tank updates in that regard so I'm  only making the assumption it did not change.  While we are talking about updates, etc,   why is it that the only paint the german tanks are allowed are the factory tan,   when it is well know field painting was the norm for camo ?    The allied tanks all blend in much better in the trees because they are green.  We should have the option of several different shades of color/patterns to choose from.

 

And please,  let's not have all of the bs about how that's how they came out of the factory ( like Aircraft ) these tanks were field modified all of the time especially in regards to painting camo on them

[LachenKrieg]

46 minutes ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

Have not tried anything since update released.  I know this is like this in the Panther, and Tiger.  Have had loaders killed  in each in the last week,  @ 45 secs to reload a round.

I didn't see much mention o tank updates in that regard so I'm  only making the assumption it did not change.  While we are talking about updates, etc,   why is it that the only paint the german tanks are allowed are the factory tan,   when it is well know field painting was the norm for camo ?    The allied tanks all blend in much better in the trees because they are green.  We should have the option of several different shades of color/patterns to choose from.

 

And please,  let's not have all of the bs about how that's how they came out of the factory ( like Aircraft ) these tanks were field modified all of the time especially in regards to painting camo on them

Just noticed another update today with a couple new visuals for Tank Crew. They seem to be pretty occupied with getting the Normandy map done and out the door. I hope once Normandy is put to bed they can focus on Tank Crew a bit more again.

 

Its funny you mention camos, the KV1 and SU152 just got new paint schemes so maybe we will see an update for some of the other vehicles. 

[LukeFF]

45 seconds to reload the gun - when the loader has been killed, and now you have to maneuver around his corpse in an already-cramped vehicle interior - is probably about right. 

[ShampooX]

and if his guts, brains, tissue fragments, etc.,  are all over the shells, you have to clean them off or you will foul the chamber pretty quickly and maybe suffer a jam.

[Na-zdorovie]

indeed, 45 secs, after that just happened i would say is good, doubt i could do it

[No_Face]

This subject is a joke, isn't it?

[LachenKrieg]

34 minutes ago, No_Face said:

This subject is a joke, isn't it?

No I think @JG1_Wittmann has raised two really good points. I think if the intention is to help make Tank Crew the de factor WWII armor simulator, then issues like this, and or damage models should be reviewed for correctness.

 

Take the camo issue for example. It is a little unfair to have one team more visible then the other, especially for multi-player game play, and especially since real world tank crews would have applied the appropriate field modification.

 

Regarding the reload issue, unless the commander was also dead, he would likely step in for the gunner if it was a Pz/Sherman tank. In a T34, if the commander looses his loader, he is alone in an even more cramped turret.

[Robli]

When talking about Sherman, can someone share more information about it's gunsight? 

There is a table next to the gun about which dot to use for aiming at various distances, but are there cues to evaluate the distance, too? Does the size of the circle or length of the bars or small ticks on two of the bars also have some kind of specific meaning?

[Na-zdorovie]

really guys? cmon, to me 45 secs to reload when all that has just happened is ok, lets see even with training you and i would find that tough, nothing prepares you for that.

i dont know what happened with you two but lets try n be civil eh........christ i sound like a mod, lol, sorry wrong forum

[javelina]

2 hours ago, Na-zdorovie said:

really guys? cmon, to me 45 secs to reload when all that has just happened is ok, lets see even with training you and i would find that tough, nothing prepares you for that.

i dont know what happened with you two but lets try n be civil eh........christ i sound like a mod, lol, sorry wrong forum

I would agree.  also, especially the trauma involved, knowing your drinking buddy / crew mate was just taken out and you're having to deal with that too.... 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Robli said:

When talking about Sherman, can someone share more information about it's gunsight? 

There is a table next to the gun about which dot to use for aiming at various distances, but are there cues to evaluate the distance, too? Does the size of the circle or length of the bars or small ticks on two of the bars also have some kind of specific meaning?

 

There should be something in the Station Notes about that. 

[Lofte]

6 hours ago, Robli said:

When talking about Sherman, can someone share more information about it's gunsight? 

There is a table next to the gun about which dot to use for aiming at various distances, but are there cues to evaluate the distance, too? Does the size of the circle or length of the bars or small ticks on two of the bars also have some kind of specific meaning?

 

Here is reticle description with mils and mils formula (see pic)

You can figure out a distance using them.

 

Distance (in thousand yards or meters) =  Lenght or width (in yards or meters)/ mils

 

For example: Pz-IV has lenght ~5m => if you see that it has lenght in the gun sight = 10 mils => it is at distance: 5 m / 10 mils = 0,5 thousand meters (500 m or ~550 yards) .

 

Further reading: FM 17-12 ARMORED FORCE FIELD MANUAL. TANK GUNNERY. April 22, 1943

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lofte

[SYN_Haashashin]

Ok, One last chance, this will be last Sherman topic about the same thing, if you guys cant keep it civil, you already know what will happen to this topic and any other topic open after this one is closed.

 

Just a hint:

9. Willful duplication of topics and excessive branching of topics is prohibited (i.e. placement of similar meaning posts and content). Before starting a new topic in a section, please use the search function to find similar posts. This will help make sure the subject you are interested in is easy to find by others. Topics that needlessly duplicate other discussions may be closed without notice and subsequently removed.

 

 

[JG1_Wittmann]

I could see it taking 45 seconds to load the first round after the gunner was killed.  Ater that the time penalty should no longer be that severe.   So  if the german tanks have there  reload time increased by a factor of 4, or more,   does it now take   3-4 minutes to reload a 152 ?

 

As far as comments  that it seems about right after loader was killed,  those   are something else.   I don't believe anyone  here has been in a tank, WW2 era,  that has been penetrated by an ap round that killed the loader.   To me,  it doesn't sound about right at all.  The commander is going to be wanting that gun loaded to fire.  The person doing the loading is going to want that gun loaded so that maybe he gets to survive the engagement.  I can see an initial period,  then it should not be much slower than normal,  say half the rate of fire,  if that slow

 

 

[Na-zdorovie]

Lol really! No we haven't been in a tank in ww2 but I'm pretty sure itl take note than one load for me to get over my best friends guts and couldn't care less who's shouting.

Yes the time could de crease but not after one shot and not to the original setting, no matter what your 1 man down

[JG1_Wittmann]

3 hours ago, Na-zdorovie said:

Lol really! No we haven't been in a tank in ww2 but I'm pretty sure itl take note than one load for me to get over my best friends guts and couldn't care less who's shouting.

Yes the time could de crease but not after one shot and not to the original setting, no matter what your 1 man down

Well,    there are those,   apparently  a class you do not occupy,   that will do what is necessary,  whatever that is,  to survive.    I'm  not sure  who's post you are referring to,  but in my posts  I made, I never mentioned  that the reload time after the gunner is killed,  should be the same as having a live gunner.