Considering trying VR, but need advice

[lwalter]

I'm currently enjoying IL2 in 4K with head-tracking. I have a 3070 graphics card and everything is smooth and sharp with highest graphics settings.

I have read many threads about VR and how you feel inside the plane rather than watching yourself fly on a screen. So I'd like to try it out.

I'm thinking of getting an Oculus Quest 2.( I understand that the Reverb G2 is better, but it's also much more expensive.)

 

 

Here are my questions before I jump into the VR train:

- would my card be good enough for the Quest 2? and which which graphics settings / resolution ?

- would the gauges be readable? like for example the boost or RPM gauges of the spitfire? if it's not clear enough to read, can you lean to get your head closer to the gauge? does it work like a zoom?

 

FYI, I would also consider this VR headset for DCS and FS2020. I guess they're much more demanding. DCS run in 4K 60 fps with my card but FS2020 is barely reaching 40 fps average, but here my focus is IL2 BOS and I would already be happy if VR works well on this simulator.

 

[dburne]

What cpu and what speed is it running?
If decent I would highly suggest you to consider Reverb G2 instead.

Cockpits look great in it , plus it is native display port. Quest will run through USB. Quest will also require Facebook account if that matters.

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, lwalter said:

Here are my questions before I jump into the VR train:

- would my card be good enough for the Quest 2? and which which graphics settings / resolution ?

- would the gauges be readable? like for example the boost or RPM gauges of the spitfire? if it's not clear enough to read, can you lean to get your head closer to the gauge? does it work like a zoom?

 

 

Your card would be fine for any headset that I can think of.  I agree with @dburne that you should at least consider a HP Reverb G2 but acknowledge that the price is quite a bit more than the Quest. 

 

The dials are easily readable with a high quality VR headset.  I play without the HUD to force myself to use them.  I can usually read them without looking straight at them.  I can definitely read them if I do look at them.  I use a Reverb G2. 

 

My first VR headset was the original Oculus.  I could make out the most important dials with that one as well and the resolution was nowhere near what you can get today.

[Mtnbiker1998]

Consider a Reverb G1 (or any windows mixed reality headset for that matter, but do your research. Most of them range from ok to good) It still offers a higher than average resolution with a much lower price tag. there is 1 in stock on amazon for around $400, a bit cheaper than a G2

[BigGinger]

First, answers to your questions:

- Yes, your card is absolutely good enough for a Quest 2 (or a Reverb as others are suggesting).  I can’t forecast your exact settings, but you will definitely have to dial back a bit from having everything on max, though you won’t care when you feel like you’re in the cockpit.

- Yes, gauges are readable.  Depending on the size and location of the gauge, sometimes a low level zoom will make it easier to read.

 

If your only intended use for VR is flight sims, I’ll join the chorus of people recommending a Reverb over a Quest 2.  The Quest 2 is a fine headset, but it’s really intended as stand-alone hardware, with PC-connected use more of a bonus feature.  You have to worry about keeping the battery charged, as well as making sure the USB connection doesn’t come loose.  More importantly though, the Reverb has better resolution, and is well worth the higher price tag if you can afford it.

 

To be clear, if you DO want to play a bunch of other (stand-alone) VR games that are available on the Quest, and flight sims are just a part of what you want it for: the Quest 2 is a really nice piece of gear.  But for flight sim only use, the Reverb is simply better.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

You can find a reverb g2 on sale for around $450...a quest 2 NEEDS the elite strap and link cable to be effective for pcvr so the price difference is NIL and the reverb g2 performs better because it doesn't use data compression.

[lwalter]

Thank you all for your answers. It seems everybody suggest me to go rather for the Reverb G2. 

i hope my PC can handle it. I’ve read so many “nightmare” stories of people spending days or weeks to make it run properly. Hopefully it’s just the Internet amplifying the bad experiences. 
 

@dburne my CPU is i7-9700F 8X 3.0Ghz

 

I saw that you could get the Reverb G2 cheaper without the 2 controllers. 
Do I need these controllers for flight simulation?

what about all the existing controllers I have (stick, throttle, Mfds, etc…), will I have to rely on muscle and space memory only? 

 

 

[BigGinger]

The most important setting for the Reverb is the SteamVR supersampling rate.  For some reason the default is absurdly high; I have mine dialed back to close to the native resolution of the headset.  From there, playing with game settings a bit should get you to decent frame rates.  I’m on a 1080Ti and have no problem getting good performance, you should be able to run better settings than me with your rig.

You don’t need the VR controllers for flight sims.  Joystick/throttle buttons are your friend though, since keyboard commands are really tough to use in VR.  Fair warning: VR is a slippery slope that leads to buying more fancy HOTAS peripherals!

[Nikoz]

+1 for going for Reverb G2 bypassing Oculus...otherwise I think you'll end up having both ?

Edited September 7, 2021 by Nikoz

[dburne]

7 hours ago, lwalter said:

Thank you all for your answers. It seems everybody suggest me to go rather for the Reverb G2. 

i hope my PC can handle it. I’ve read so many “nightmare” stories of people spending days or weeks to make it run properly. Hopefully it’s just the Internet amplifying the bad experiences. 
 

@dburne my CPU is i7-9700F 8X 3.0Ghz

 

I saw that you could get the Reverb G2 cheaper without the 2 controllers. 
Do I need these controllers for flight simulation?

what about all the existing controllers I have (stick, throttle, Mfds, etc…), will I have to rely on muscle and space memory only? 

 

 

 

Your CPU is going to hold you back some for VR.

The i7-9700F whilst has a single core boost of 4.7 GHz it is multiplier locked, and the other cores are going to be running at 3 GHz. You can not manually go in and up the multiplier on those.  If you could replace that CPU with a K series processor and a decent cooler you would fair better for VR. Ideally you would like to have all cores running at 4.7 or better for VR.

Edited September 7, 2021 by dburne

[lwalter]

So, my graphics card is fine but CPU is not.

Since I'm not ready to change CPU (I just got it in April), I guess I may have to wait for VR.

 

Anyways, I was wondering if the Reverb G2 would work for me as I wear glasses. Do they have spacers like the Quest 2 for people wearing glasses?

Edited September 7, 2021 by lwalter

[kissTheSky]

Just in case. 
 

ive seen this on another forum. 
https://forums.iracing.com/discussion/7517/fs-hp-reverb-g2-vr-hmd-with-controllers-tennessee-usa#latest

[Charlo-VRde]

4 hours ago, lwalter said:

I was wondering if the Reverb G2 would work for me as I wear glasses. Do they have spacers like the Quest 2 for people wearing glasses?

 

There is enough room in the Reverb G2 to wear glasses, enough that there are many who do not wear glasses who have modded their G2's so that their eyes sit closer to the lenses for additional horizontal range and a slightly larger sweet spot.

 

Some of us have ordered prescription lens adapters to save us the hassle of putting on glasses in our headsets, and also to reduce the likelihood we'll scratch our VR headset's lenses with our glasses. I ordered mine from https://widmovr.com/product/hp-reverb-g2-prescription-lens-adapters/ , and there are other makers of lens adapters that others have also recommended in these forums.

[firdimigdi]

13 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

Just in case. 
 

ive seen this on another forum. 
https://forums.iracing.com/discussion/7517/fs-hp-reverb-g2-vr-hmd-with-controllers-tennessee-usa#latest

 

Sadly this requires an iRacing account to view. What's the gist of it?

[kissTheSky]

3 minutes ago, 335th_grFirdimigdi said:

 

Sadly this requires an iRacing account to view. What's the gist of it?

It’s a listing for used (2-3 weeks old iirc) G2 for sale $425+shipping. Wasn’t sure where you are with your decision so I just posted the link should you wish to take a look but didn’t know it didn’t even let you view it. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by kissTheSky

[chiliwili69]

On 9/7/2021 at 9:12 PM, lwalter said:

So, my graphics card is fine but CPU is not.

Since I'm not ready to change CPU (I just got it in April), I guess I may have to wait for VR

 

Well, your CPU could still be valid for VR.

 

Your CPU has the TurboBoost 2.0 intel tech which speed up one core up to 4.7Mhz depending on the load of the core and other CPU parameters (temp, amps, power).

You have to enable this in the BIOS.

 

The best way to know how your CPU would work in VR is to run the SYN_VANDER benchmark in monintor mode (test 1 with 1080p, but also test2 at 4K).

 

You can follow the instructions here:

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

His cpu will work okay for vr in multiplayer, but may suffer some in single player with lots of ai units. Ideally OP would go for a ryzen or upcoming Alder Lake Intel chip for vr, but he will still be okay at 4.7ghz skylake.

Edited September 9, 2021 by drewm3i-VR

[dburne]

He will only have one core boosting to 4.7 GHz, IL-2 will jump around all cores.

[Voyager]

@lwalter You need controllers. Not for the game itself, but there are some settings that can only be accesses with the controllers.

 

Force Dx11 mode is one of them. If you don't need to set it, it's fine, but if you need to VR becomes unplayable.

 

VR, while very immersive, it still an immature product. Expect to need a lot of tweaking and potential hardware changes. 

 

Also measure your head and you inter pupil distance before you pick a headset. Head fit and eye alignment can make or break VR. For example, my head size and the distance between my eyes means I cannot use either Reverb headset for VR and have a good experience. I needed to go to a VP2. But, I didn't realize that when I got the Reverb G1, so spent about a year fighting it, badly. Don't repeat my mistake. 

 

On a tangent, most of the "I quit VR" do seem to be coming from Reverb users. That needs more analysis to understand if it's due to just the prevalence of the headset, or deeper issues with the headset and its design trade-offs.

[chiliwili69]

5 hours ago, dburne said:

He will only have one core boosting to 4.7 GHz, IL-2 will jump around all cores

 

Well, In the large set of tests of the SYN_VANDER benchmark there is one non-K CPU, an i5-10600, reported here:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/66924-syn_vander-benchmark-v6-to-measure-il-2-performance-in-monitor-vr/?do=findComment&comment=1029099

 

He was reaching a good fps comparable to other K processors.

 

 

The way Intel manage the freq of every core , not only one, is a function of core load, temps, amps and power. So it doesn´t mean that one core is at max freq and all others are at base freq. Every core freq is adjusted continuosly from base to max.

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by chiliwili69

[dburne]

Well alrighty then...

Lol.

No matter how you cut it, it is still a single core boost, not all cores.

Edited September 9, 2021 by dburne

[lwalter]

All,

Thanks a lot for all your insights!

 

I will try the benchmark above and check the results this weekend.

 

I feel a bit disappointed that my CPU is actually not so great. I was mostly focused on the graphics card and RAM when I bought my PC in March. I don't think I'm going to change CPU right now. It will have to wait.

What I don't understand is that in non VR, I don't seem to be limited by the CPU. Everything runs very smooth, especially on IL2. Just for my understanding, what makes the CPU more important in VR? Isn't it up to the graphics card to now render 2 scenes in parallel with high FPS?

 

[dburne]

31 minutes ago, lwalter said:

All,

Thanks a lot for all your insights!

 

I will try the benchmark above and check the results this weekend.

 

I feel a bit disappointed that my CPU is actually not so great. I was mostly focused on the graphics card and RAM when I bought my PC in March. I don't think I'm going to change CPU right now. It will have to wait.

What I don't understand is that in non VR, I don't seem to be limited by the CPU. Everything runs very smooth, especially on IL2. Just for my understanding, what makes the CPU more important in VR? Isn't it up to the graphics card to now render 2 scenes in parallel with high FPS?

 

 

Flight sims by their very nature are CPU limited. Always have been.

They need raw brute CPU horsepower along with a good GPU. Especially in VR with flight sims.

[chiliwili69]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:20 PM, lwalter said:

Isn't it up to the graphics card to now render 2 scenes in parallel with high FPS?

 

For a non-constrained GPU system (Assuming GPU is never botllenecked) the fps you achieve in monitor versus VR is about divived by two. So, if you have 130fps in monitor you will have 65 in VR. Just a ballpark number.

 

I don´t know the full explanation of that. It is just the facts.

 

In theory, the geometry (where every plane, smoke, bullet, etc is in the scene) should be calculated just once and performed by the CPU. It should be the same in monitor or VR. Then, what it is really seen by every eye (that geomtry, a set of triangles in the scene) should be done twice, and it is done by the CPU. So, this raw info is sent to the GPU to perform the rasterization (calculate the color of each pixel of each panel).