flicker reduction game and propeller?

[hal_900]

TLDR: accessibility options to reduce flicker, anyone?

 

Has anything been done to reduce flicker in subsequent updates since last year?

 

The 4.5 update introduced significant flicker into the game for me and still appears as such. Running with and without any AA seems to make little difference overall to the visual quality of the game.

 

One of the things I have noticed is that propeller flicker seems to have increased and will cause me visual problems in single engine aircraft. If there is no propeller on screen it is easier for me to play the game and it is easier for me to play the game on flying circus as the planes are slower and the flicker of the propeller is slower.

 

Realistically would you be able to see the propeller unless the engine was at slow speed? Videos of planes flying seem to only show the propeller due to the camera shutterspeed. If you see a plane flying in real life you do not see the propeller in the same way as great battles.

 

The propellers in CLOD seem to me more realistic and do not cause flicker.

 

These issues persist on two separate machines each with Nvidia graphics and I have tried everything driverwise. There was no issue before the 4.5 upgrade last year, I believe this was the update that made 'spotting' LOD changes, I believe this made objects flicker to make them more visible, you can see this if you fly past / through clouds in any game mode there is a significant 'shimmer' flicker surrounding the plane.

Edited September 3, 2021 by hal_900

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Try having settings like HDR and SSAO off. HDR makes the game look overly bright and SSAO brings very little to the table except a performance loss. 

[hal_900]

They are already disabled, again none of this was an issue before the 4.5 upgrade last year. I posted screenshots that show the AA does not appear to work at any setting, there is considerable flicker all the time.

 

Even with all additional graphics settings disabled it still occurs, even with defaults it still occurs. I have reinstalled the game etc

 

This also occurrs on a different machine running the game. Something significant happened at 4.5 to cause this

[von_Tom]

 

No flicker here.

 

On Wednesday I saw the Duxford Lysander and Harvard pass over in close formation and I could see the prop blur.

 

Can't help without knowing system specs etc.

 

von Tom

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Also, what do you mean with prop flicker? Can you post a short video?

[hal_900]

Perphaps I should reprase it, realistically none of this was an issue before the 4.5 update last year. Can a developer confirm what changes were made that cause flicker? This would be perceptible to most people but it is a trigger for migraines for me. This affects two sytems on all and any driver.

 

I would just like to know what it is / was that was done. I totally understand that this just might be me, I cant look at strobe lights for example as they also affect me. Thats the closest thing I can say its like. It was night and day on the update, I had 200+ hours in the game before but after I can only play for a few minutes and I have to stop (its 100% not my screens on either hardware) I know there have been several updates since but the game is still not really playable for me. Its the Steam version if it matters.

 

Can I purchase an older version for offline play only directly from the studio / developers?

 

i7 6700k, GTX1060, 12GB ram W10 20H2 home (may be 2004 would have to double check) / Ryzen 3600, GTX1660S 16gb ram W10 20H2 pro

 

I can dig out some more screenshots but this is the sort of blur / flicker that seems to have been introduced is attached.

 

You can see blur around objects when going over / near clouds, obvoiusly this is a small example but when moving about you can see a 'shimmer' of black blur around edges against sky / cloud.

 

The text in the game also seems to have been changed, jagged flickering edges are present, you can see this more clearly when you zoom in. Font smoothing / aliasing changes throughout?

 

I can try to upload a video but its difficult due to file size limits. The propeller flikers is all I can say and you can see it on video.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by hal_900

[AEthelraedUnraed]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you can't play IL2 with your current configuration for medical reasons.

 

11 hours ago, hal_900 said:

Perphaps I should reprase it, realistically none of this was an issue before the 4.5 update last year. Can a developer confirm what changes were made that cause flicker? This would be perceptible to most people but it is a trigger for migraines for me. This affects two sytems on all and any driver.

The relative update changelogs are here:

What you seem to be talking about is the flicker around edges when an aircraft is in front of clouds. This is a well-known problem and has existed for many years. In fact, recent updates (might've indeed been 4.501) have made it better, but perhaps this improvement actually makes things worse for your specific medical condition.

 

I don't think it's possible to download a specific historical version. You might e-mail support, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. However, there are a number of possible solutions:

- If it's indeed the cloud flicker, you won't see it if you fly with a clear sky. You could simply only fly with clear skies from now on.

- Try different resolutions and anti-alias settings.

- Try out different cloud settings (low to extreme). Some might reduce the flickering.

- You might try the Realistic Clouds Mod, that seems to reduce flicker in many cases. Again, play around with the different versions of the mod and the different cloud settings (low to high): https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53511-mod-realistic-clouds-updated-4-25-2021/

- I don't think so, but a different prop texture *might* help. Try the following: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62083-mod-request-prop-texture/

 

 

Let us know if any of these solutions help or at least reduce the problem.

Edited September 13, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Help could also arrive in form of the new cloud system under works as devs mentioned some time ago. When is an another issue. 

[hal_900]

Thanks all for the response so far.

 

I believe it must've been these changes:

 

4.501 update:

 

"The distant LOD scaling system has been adjusted, their lighting has been made full, atmospheric haze option and an increased MSAA level have been added."

 

I dont know if mentioning other games is allowed here but there are some which affect me the same way and which seem to flicker badly for me, the exeption being with IL2BOS I was able to play the game with no issues before the update.

 

On 9/12/2021 at 9:54 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you can't play IL2 with your current configuration for medical reasons.

 

The relative update changelogs are here:

What you seem to be talking about is the flicker around edges when an aircraft is in front of clouds. This is a well-known problem and has existed for many years. In fact, recent updates (might've indeed been 4.501) have made it better, but perhaps this improvement actually makes things worse for your specific medical condition.

 

I don't think it's possible to download a specific historical version. You might e-mail support, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. However, there are a number of possible solutions:

- If it's indeed the cloud flicker, you won't see it if you fly with a clear sky. You could simply only fly with clear skies from now on.

- Try different resolutions and anti-alias settings.

- Try out different cloud settings (low to extreme). Some might reduce the flickering.

- You might try the Realistic Clouds Mod, that seems to reduce flicker in many cases. Again, play around with the different versions of the mod and the different cloud settings (low to high): https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53511-mod-realistic-clouds-updated-4-25-2021/

- I don't think so, but a different prop texture *might* help. Try the following: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/62083-mod-request-prop-texture/

 

 

Let us know if any of these solutions help or at least reduce the problem.

 

I have already tried several different graphics settings from lowest to highest but I am still affected unfortunately. Its almost as if something is flickering constantly no matter what and I believe this is related to whatever a LOD change is (I dont really understand what this is) AND/ OR its the lighting change?

 

It was just 'easy' to see the flicker / blur around objects when planes / parachutes etc are travelling over clouds, perhaps its always doing this but is only viewable drawn over a cloud? Maybe this flicker is the LOD / spotting change - making something flicker makes it easier to see?

 

I didnt know about mods and textures but I'll have a look at that and report back.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, hal_900 said:

I have already tried several different graphics settings from lowest to highest but I am still affected unfortunately. Its almost as if something is flickering constantly no matter what and I believe this is related to whatever a LOD change is (I dont really understand what this is) AND/ OR its the lighting change?

LOD is when an object changes to a version with a lower polygon count at a certain distance to save GPU.  E.g. when an airplane is more than X metres away from the camera, it'll stop rendering small 3d details since you won't really see them at that distance anyway, while they will eat up rendering time. I don't think this has anything to do with your issue. 

 

4 hours ago, hal_900 said:

It was just 'easy' to see the flicker / blur around objects when planes / parachutes etc are travelling over clouds, perhaps its always doing this but is only viewable drawn over a cloud? Maybe this flicker is the LOD / spotting change - making something flicker makes it easier to see?

Nope, it's just in front of clouds. A simplified explanation is that they render the clouds at a lower resolution. They could render it at full resolution, but peoples' hardware is just not up to that. Hence, they render it at a smaller resolution at the cost of a few minor disadvantages, among which the flickering. Most people will likely not even notice it, but in your specific case it apparently causes migraine.

 

Hence the reason that most of my suggestions have something to do with clouds. Anyway, let us know if it helps.

[hal_900]

I have found that playing the game using Nvidia DSR at 4k scaled back to 1080 seems to greatly reduce the flicker of the game, at 1080p everything is always flickering, jagging and flashing everything around the cockpit flickers and landscape roads and rivers flicker on and off for me.... at 2k DSR there is some flicker and aliasing but at 4k scaled back to 1080 everything is almost perfect, the landscape no longer flickers and the jagged flashing of all edges is also much reduced. Everything looks much better and almost 'real' compared to how it was at 1080.

 

Gameplay is somewhat affected, my FPS not so much, still 60+ fps but everything seems slightly slower and the hud icons even at 150% are tiny, it may just be I need to get used to it this way.

Edited November 19, 2021 by hal_900

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:33 PM, hal_900 said:

I have found that playing the game using Nvidia DSR at 4k scaled back to 1080 seems to greatly reduce the flicker of the game, at 1080p everything is always flickering, jagging and flashing everything around the cockpit flickers and landscape roads and rivers flicker on and off for me.... at 2k DSR there is some flicker and aliasing but at 4k scaled back to 1080 everything is almost perfect, the landscape no longer flickers and the jagged flashing of all edges is also much reduced. Everything looks much better and almost 'real' compared to how it was at 1080.

 

Gameplay is somewhat affected, my FPS not so much, still 60+ fps but everything seems slightly slower and the hud icons even at 150% are tiny, it may just be I need to get used to it this way.

Glad you've found a setting that works somewhat, however....

 

The flickering you mention should not happen at all. Earlier you mentioned flickering in front of clouds, which is well attested, but roads and rivers should not flicker. This makes me think that there's more going on. Do you have VSync on, both in the game settings as well as in the NVIDIA Control Panel (3D Settings -> Manage 3D Settings -> Global Settings (or create specific Program Settings for IL2) -> Vertical sync? Other settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel you might want to play with are the various Antialiasing settings (more is better, but less FPS), Anisotropic filtering (same thing), and the Texture Filtering settings (Anisotropic on, Negative LOD Bias clamp, Trilinear on).

[hal_900]

I have tried just about all of the graphics settings, roads etc still flicker / aliaise though as this seems to be a limitation of the AA capabilities or the game engine.

 

I am having futher issues with very low GPU utilisation as well, around 35% / 40% and CPU at 10% just about always (Ryzen 3600 and 1660 super) I believe this also a game engine limitation as drivers do not seem to have an effect on this, but this has always been an issue for a very long time

Edited November 28, 2021 by hal_900

[SCG_motoadve]

In real life 99% of the time you don't see your own propeller, ask any real pilots.

I have asked this already a few times to get rid of the prop, or make it less visible, it will help everyone's FPS too.

We used to have it in 3D Migoto mod, so it shows it can easily be done, but this mod has been banned.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

21 hours ago, hal_900 said:

I have tried just about all of the graphics settings, roads etc still flicker / aliaise though as this seems to be a limitation of the AA capabilities or the game engine.

 

I am having futher issues with very low GPU utilisation as well, around 35% / 40% and CPU at 10% just about always (Ryzen 3600 and 1660 super) I believe this also a game engine limitation as drivers do not seem to have an effect on this, but this has always been an issue for a very long time

Could you record a short clip? It still isn't entirely clear what's flickering. If we can see what exactly is happening, we're able to provide better answers. 

[hal_900]

I dont know if this is going to be seen, but with vsync off I can see the propeller animation is causing screen tearing flicker, this is only on the area where the propeller animation is though.

 

without enablig vsync everywhere how can I stop this?

[jollyjack]

That propeller haze; i wish you could switch that off in general game settings. I prefer using a fix camera setting positioned over the cockpit, it's spoiling a nice clear view.

[IckyATLAS]

1 hour ago, hal_900 said:

I dont know if this is going to be seen, but with vsync off I can see the propeller animation is causing screen tearing flicker, this is only on the area where the propeller animation is though.

 

without enablig vsync everywhere how can I stop this?

If you have an NVidia graphic card of the last generation, in the Nvidia settings parameters there is one that may help, worth trying.

First switch off Vsync in the game.

Second go the Nvidia settings, and 3D parameter settings. In the drop down list there is a parameter about Vertical synchronization. Set it to the Fast mode.

You will not have image tearing again, but it may help you.

[354thFG_Rails]

23 hours ago, jollyjack said:

That propeller haze; i wish you could switch that off in general game settings. I prefer using a fix camera setting positioned over the cockpit, it's spoiling a nice clear view.

It’s not even realistic. I don’t understand why the prop is reflecting the light at all. It should just be a darker ring in front. 

[jollyjack]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:36 PM, IckyATLAS said:

If you have an NVidia graphic card of the last generation, in the Nvidia settings parameters there is one that may help, worth trying.

First switch off Vsync in the game.

Second go the Nvidia settings, and 3D parameter settings. In the drop down list there is a parameter about Vertical synchronization. Set it to the Fast mode.

You will not have image tearing again, but it may help you.

 

I don't have this flicker, and an NVDIA, curious though; but it does not make a difference it seems both ways.

Edited July 26, 2022 by jollyjack

[IckyATLAS]

3 hours ago, jollyjack said:

I don't have this flicker, and an NVDIA, curious though; but it does not make a difference it seems both ways.

I use a 3090 with latest drivers.

[RossMarBow]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:02 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Glad you've found a setting that works somewhat, however....

 

The flickering you mention should not happen at all. Earlier you mentioned flickering in front of clouds, which is well attested, but roads and rivers should not flicker. This makes me think that there's more going on. Do you have VSync on, both in the game settings as well as in the NVIDIA Control Panel (3D Settings -> Manage 3D Settings -> Global Settings (or create specific Program Settings for IL2) -> Vertical sync? Other settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel you might want to play with are the various Antialiasing settings (more is better, but less FPS), Anisotropic filtering (same thing), and the Texture Filtering settings (Anisotropic on, Negative LOD Bias clamp, Trilinear on).

Bro this game flickers hard

everyone just deals with

 

if you are talking about your whole screen flickering

thats a freesync/gsync issue caused by this games terrible frame pacing

but you can fix it by forcing it on instead of letting driver control it 

for amd set this to on instead of optimised 

turn off vsync

 

for everything else 

try turning off all ansio in driver (nvidia/amd)

setting filter to blurred
turning off farblocks/distant buildings

running low preset
and running LOD 0 / lowest

and running msaa x2 or x4

 

turning off all sharpening can help too
but then you can't spot or ID well

 

 

but yea overall this game flickers hard even if you run the most jankest settings

 

I literally can't use the bomb sight because of stupid render distances and the game looks like shit with these settings

but at least its not a glittery flickery mess

Edited August 22, 2022 by RossMarBow

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, RossMarBow said:

Bro this game flickers hard

everyone just deals with

I'm not your brother, and no, this game doesn't "flicker hard". Maybe it does for you, but for me it just doesn't. Low FPS? Sure. Ghosting? Sometimes. But flickering? Nope. Period.

 

Don't assume that because you're suffering from some problem, everyone must.

Edited August 22, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[hal_900]

Thanks for the tips.

 

I am now testing with a RTX2060 on a clean install of W11 with latest drivers.

 

The Normandy update seems to flicker less, but overall the game is still one of the more flickering titles that I have experienced.

 

The propeller flicker doesnt seem to occurr for me as badly with the 2060. This may be driver related though. (I have all 'extra' graphics options disabled except for v-sync, but this was the same settings before)

 

DCS and CLOD do not flicker / judder as much as BOS. In BOS even when moving the camera about externally its like its running at 30fps even when the game is at 75 its hard to describe, not sure if there is a camera smoothing setting for this? Internally this doesnt seem to happen though.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by hal_900

[hal_900]

Latest game update flickers so much less for me now, something has been done to the game engine I'm sure, I actually played for nearly 2 hours with barely any issues. I have made hardware changes as I now use an ATI 6700 but before the update it was still flickering now I can play.

 

(I have previoulsly used a 1660, 2060 and 3060 and had terrible flicker with all of them, I've not tried the latest update on the 2060 though)

[TCW_Spear]

After last update this flickering, jagging, shimmer started in my case. Tried many different settings change, in game, control panel, inspector, DSR... nothing helped. I will reinstall the game, maybe it will help.