Ju-87 Dive Bombing in Career

[aspartame226]

I'm noticing all of the missions since this patch have an attack altitude no greater than 1.5km (used to be no less than 2km), making dive bombing extremely difficult. Is this because of the patch or historical reasons (I'm in the middle of the Stalingrad campaign)?

[PatrickAWlson]

I thought the dive bomb altitude was 4200 meters.

[Eisenfaustus]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I thought the dive bomb altitude was 4200 meters.

Historically yes - in career currently no. 
Yet @LukeFFstated in another topic that mission altitudes might be revised in the future ^^
 

Currently I play Bomber/Attacker careers only as commander so I get to choose speed, altitude, vector, fuel, payload and strength ^^

[LukeFF]

It's an AI limitation - they won't initiate a dive-bombing attack above 1500 meters. If they're above that altitude, they'll glide down to 1500 meters before beginning their attack. 

[Eisenfaustus]

Sounds like the next sensible task for the AI programmer then ^^

[ACG_Bobo]

They went from flying at 2,500 to 3,000 meters down to 1,500 and now they fly in an right echelon when they used to fly in a big vee.
So yeah a few things have changed.  When they flew before the patch at the higher alts they initiated their attacks from the high altitude.

They also fly faster, they do 330kph when they used to do 250.

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

It's an AI limitation - they won't initiate a dive-bombing attack above 1500 meters. If they're above that altitude, they'll glide down to 1500 meters before beginning their attack. 

 

Q1: 1500 meters Sea Level or above the target?

Q2: if 1500 meters is the highest they will initiate a dive bombing attack, what is the lowest?

[LukeFF]

8 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Q1: 1500 meters Sea Level or above the target?

Q2: if 1500 meters is the highest they will initiate a dive bombing attack, what is the lowest?

 

I think it's above the target. Not sure about the second question. 

[PatrickAWlson]

Just did a test.  From 1500 meters set altitude (in game HUD indicating about 1280 meters) the planes performed a "push nose down" attack.   The angle of dive looked to be about 50 degrees.  In short, it looked a lot like the profile of any other plane doing a ground attack and not a real dive bomb.  They used to roll onto their backs at 4200 meters and go in at almost 90 degrees.

 

Not thrilled with the change but it is what it is.

[Plurp]

In career mode: 

 

Choose to be the commander even if you want to fly tail end charlie.  Only give them 1 bomb 250/500/1000 as they seem to drag the ones left home with them.

 

From the HQ screen click on the target to bring up the waypoints.  You can drag the course where you want to and change the altitude/speed/formation I.e. 3k. in my tests.

 

Whether you are leading from the front or following; at the target the group will break off to attack with/against the wind.  In my tests they have rolled over at 3k and dove straight down, dropped on the target, recovered and headed for home.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Plurp

[sevenless]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:04 AM, aspartame226 said:

I'm noticing all of the missions since this patch have an attack altitude no greater than 1.5km (used to be no less than 2km), making dive bombing extremely difficult. Is this because of the patch or historical reasons (I'm in the middle of the Stalingrad campaign)?

 

It is the same in the Me 262 jabo career. Historically they were flying (ingress) at 4000m or above and then dived down for the drop altitude.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by sevenless

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

It is the same in the Me 262 jabo career. Historically they were flying (ingress) at 4000m or above and then dived down for the drop altitude.

 

That surprises me actually. 
 

Thought to have read somewhere (Galland I think) that the 262 was unsuited for dive bombing because you couldn’t reliable throttle down and up during the sortie and thus the plane would become way to fast in a prolonged dive…

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

That surprises me actually. 
 

Thought to have read somewhere (Galland I think) that the 262 was unsuited for dive bombing because you couldn’t reliable throttle down and up during the sortie and thus the plane would become way to fast in a prolonged dive…

 

You seem to have misread my post or the source I quoted. They were not dive-bombing like Stukas did. I./KG 51 and II./KG 51 bombed happily with their 262s from 8/44 to 5/45 whenever possible.

[Eisenfaustus]

I know they did - but wasn’t aware how. They obviously wouldn’t bomb in a 90deg dive - no plane except for the ju87 did that. Fighter bombers usually at around 30deg to 60deg - yet even a 30deg dive in a 262 from 4000m should make you very fast. 

 

I just imagined a lower ingress altitude - that’s all. ^^

Edited August 24, 2021 by Eisenfaustus

[PatrickAWlson]

Speculating a bit, but I can see how it is manageable.  If you throttle down before the dive (gently), initiate the dive throttled down,  dive, drop, egress with the built up speed while gradually throttling up, should work the same as any other plane.  You just have to be more careful throttling down and then back up.

[DEDMANcjp]

I have a JU88 career going and the last several missions have also been at 1500m.. first time flying that alt. 

Usually 2k to first waypoint, then up to 2.5 or 3km.

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Fighter bombers usually at around 30deg to 60deg - yet even a 30deg dive in a 262 from 4000m should make you very fast. 

 

Look at the diagramms I posted. Daylight bombing. 15 deg GLIDE to dropping the bomb(s).

 

And what @PatrickAWlson said.

Edited August 24, 2021 by sevenless

[Eisenfaustus]

Another question - does someone know how I can make AI Ju 88 dive bomb in career?

 

Up until now they only bomb horizontally. 

[PatrickAWlson]

9 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Another question - does someone know how I can make AI Ju 88 dive bomb in career?

 

Up until now they only bomb horizontally. 

 

They used to.  Set altitude to 4100 meters and they would roll on their backs and dive.  I am guessing, based on what @LukeFF said, that the AI is no longer able to do this.  Instead they circle down to 1500 feet and then, from what I saw, initiate an attack the same as any other attack plane.

[Eisenfaustus]

7 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

They used to.  Set altitude to 4100 meters and they would roll on their backs and dive.  I am guessing, based on what @LukeFF said, that the AI is no longer able to do this.  Instead they circle down to 1500 feet and then, from what I saw, initiate an attack the same as any other attack plane.

This time I meant the 88 - the AI only seems to level bomb…

[Sybreed]

That sucks... can they be programmed to do actual dive bombing. I wanted to start a ju87 career but might refrain to if you can't even dive bomb.

 

Why the change?

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

This time I meant the 88 - the AI only seems to level bomb…

 

I don't think that I have ever seen the 88 really dive bomb from a steep angle.  Not saying it didn't just that I have never seen it.  I have seen it (and the PE2) perform dive bombing missions where it will attack at an angle similar to other diving planes, but never near vertical.