Korean war era expansion possible?

[Cpt_Siddy]

Hello, i am curious to probe people in the know, if Devs ever plan to go outside WW2 engagements? 

Something that focused on early, pre supersonic, jet gun combat without fancy shmancy electomagic and AMRAAM spam. Just eyeball MK!, guns and guts. 

With occasional early cold war piston plane in the mix. The documentation from that era, one imagines, should be sufficient and recorded with sufficient fidelity and not classified at this point. 

 

Any chance? Yes? No? Maybe? 

 

[Rjel]

9 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Any chance? Yes? No? Maybe? 

 

I'd think any one of your three possibilities are likely.

[=621=Samikatz]

I would like to see it, and I definetly think with the quality of the 262 that the team could replicate jet combat faithfully. The two issues I can think of are that the North Korean roster was reduced to just one (albeit very good!) fighter jet very quickly, and that they'd need to resolve the turret AI resource usage to include the B-29, a critical aircraft for the Korean war

[Trooper117]

On an interview awhile back, I think Jason said he'd like to do it, or it was a possibility...

[Eisenfaustus]

1st if several polls in the corresponding section of the forum are any indication than Korea isn‘t very marketable. 
 

2nd the B29 may be important for Korea - but so were B17 and B24 for Western Europe. 
 

3rd for me personally I‘d prefer they stayed in WWII.

[CountZero]

dont expect it with this game engine, big map, big number of bombers, not 5v5 planset, .50 cal ...

oh yes and carriers and big fleets... it would be bigest suprise if they do go for Korea DLC, airplane data is probably the easyest thing to solve

Edited August 3, 2021 by CountZero

[Cpt_Siddy]

There is a fan base for early Jet era, and most of the aerodynamic work for engine is done for 262. There are not much difference until we start to get super sonic, BVR jet era of Vietnam's conflict.  

 

Korea is the last major fight where man meant still more than machine. 

[Pict]

13 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Any chance? Yes? No? Maybe? 

 

I sincerely hope not. Same goes for paper plane wunderwaffe 1946 type scenario.

 

41 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

There is a fan base for early Jet era, and most of the aerodynamic work for engine is done for 262. There are not much difference until we start to get super sonic, BVR jet era of Vietnam's conflict.  

 

Easy option here would be to make a Gloster Meteor MKI & MKIII as a collector add on, as both saw operational service in the ETO.

 

43 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Korea is the last major fight where man meant still more than machine.

 

Or where bubblegum was greater than the automatic gun-sight...at least according to Gabreski  

[Cpt_Siddy]

1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

I sincerely hope not. Same goes for paper plane wunderwaffe 1946 type scenario.

 

 

Korea is not paper plane wunderwaffe scenario... Its real, mass produced planes that have ample documentation. Why are you lumping the two together? 

Mig alley is famous place and the game engine potentially can handle it well, because mixture legacy WW2 props and first-gen post-war subsonic jets.

[Chief_Mouser]

The MiG-15 and what? Il-10 possibly. Versus the might of both land- and sea-based air forces of the west. Loads of possibilities for aircraft on the NATO side (too many to be limited to five) and no possibility of a credible opposition apart from the MiG. Wouldn't interest me like that.

Edited August 4, 2021 by 216th_Cat

[Pict]

36 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Korea is not paper plane wunderwaffe scenario... Its real, mass produced planes that have ample documentation. Why are you lumping the two together?

 

Fair comment they are not the same 1946 can never be done right. 

 

I'd be open to a Korea scenario if it was done right. So how would you propose it be done?

[Pict]

25 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

Loads of possibilities for aircraft on the NATO side (too many to be limited to five) and no possibility of a credible opposition apart from the MiG

 

That pretty much sums it up for the later end of the war.

 

In the early air-battle of South Korea, the North Koreans were flying Yak-3's, Yak-9's and even Yak-7's against P-80's and B-29's. Sounds like fun eh? 

 

And what about that B-29? I reckon it was an essential part of the Korean air war, but you can bet it would be left out, like the carrier ops.

 

 

[Alexmarine]

Soviet/Chinese planes that saw service:

 

MiG-15

Yak-9P

La-9/11

Il-10

Yak-11 (converted armed trainer, lump it together with the Po-2)

Tu-2

[Chief_Mouser]

1 hour ago, Alexmarine said:

Soviet/Chinese planes that saw service:

 

MiG-15

Yak-9P

La-9/11

Il-10

Yak-11 (converted armed trainer, lump it together with the Po-2)

Tu-2

 

Exactly. Nothing of real interest apart from the MiG. The rest are similar to what we already have in Il-2:GB.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Comon now, US and south korea had many WW2 planes at the start of the war. That war is very interesting because its such a mish-mash of old and new that you can find a "battle of X" niche that incorporates just the right plane set. 

[Pict]

19 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Something that focused on early, pre supersonic, jet gun combat

 

From your OP

 

I reckon that @216th_Catis spot on as the MiG-15 would be the only opposition to a selection of US early jet types.

 

========================

 

So if you want to move the  goalposts to encompass a proper Korea edition of IL2GB, then please outline the plane set & map/s you have in mind so that we can discuss more easily. And the timeline as things changed dramatically in Korea.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Pict

[Eisenfaustus]

But the Western piston engine planes were almost exclusively used for groundpounding. The Eastern piston engine planes were almost immediately wiped out. So Air to Air combat basically comes down to Mig15 vs Sabre pretty soon. 
 

Can be a fun concept surely - but not for me personally. 

[CountZero]

Problem is like others say, you need to pick what you wont, it was 3-4 year war, where front line first moved fast from mid to all way south to pusan and then back up all the way north, so you gona do whole 1000x1000km map ? or even bigger if you have to have parts of Japan from where bases was used mostly at some point in war.

mig vs f-86 come to play only later, and there was 2 mig 15 types and few differant F-86 types, and at that time only nato used props, n.korea used them mostly at night.

Also there was big presence of naval operations that you have to add depending on what year you select.

 

There was time when Nato had early jets and props and north used props, then they got MiG-15 and nato only early jets and props, and then later F-86s come to play, and they got some upgrades also, first one that come were quite differant then later ones.

[DBFlyguy]

A Korean War expansion could be the ticket into finally having some carrier ops without the "...data issue..." of Japanese aircraft...

 

UN Forces:

F4U Corsair, F9F Panther, Hawker Sea Fury, F-80 Shooting Star, B-26 Invader, (B-29 AI only...)

 

North Korea/China:

IL-10, Yak-9P, La-11, MiG-15, Tu-2

 

F-86A as a collector aircraft. Time frame could be from Sep 1950 to Dec 1950, there was a ton of air activity including air combat between props as well as props vs jets.  Deciding on a map(s) would be the main issue

[Eisenfaustus]

I did a poll on this and Korea had the worst score:

Even the Battle of France beat it - so I don’t seem to be alone in my opinion. 

[DBFlyguy]

18 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I did a poll on this and Korea had the worst score:

Even the Battle of France beat it - so I don’t seem to be alone in my opinion. 

I'd still take "Battle of France" over any more east front releases honestly and any Pacific battle is a pipe dream...but... It really doesn't matter anyway, the dev's are already swamped just trying to meet their for BoN and FC2/3 timelines ... I doubt we'll be hearing any new "Battle of" announcements until at least very late 2022, if then.

[jeanba]

4 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

Exactly. Nothing of real interest apart from the MiG. The rest are similar to what we already have in Il-2:GB.

I thought the same thing about the german planeset between BOS and BOM !

 

I wish we had a Battle of Korea, this would be more original

 

edit : if you want more variety, try Suez Campaign (Vampire, Meteor, F84F, Ouragan, Mystere, Mig15 ....)

Edited August 4, 2021 by jeanba

[Talisman]

1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

A Korean War expansion could be the ticket into finally having some carrier ops without the "...data issue..." of Japanese aircraft...

 

UN Forces:

F4U Corsair, F9F Panther, Hawker Sea Fury, F-80 Shooting Star, B-26 Invader, (B-29 AI only...)

 

North Korea/China:

IL-10, Yak-9P, La-11, MiG-15, Tu-2

 

F-86A as a collector aircraft. Time frame could be from Sep 1950 to Dec 1950, there was a ton of air activity including air combat between props as well as props vs jets.  Deciding on a map(s) would be the main issue

 

Great stuff,  helicopters too!  This would be something different, not done by others, and much better than the dull same old, same old of something like the Battle of France.  If ever IL-2 GB does the so called Battle of France, it will be the first title I will never purchase or even want as a gift, lol.

 

Yes, Korea makes perfect sense.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

 

[Q_Walker]

Although it could be a new interesting theater to fly in, we still have more to cover in WW2 before we should cover the Korean War. Is there a chance? I think there is a chance, but I don't think that chance should come before WW2 modules that still can be done.

[SCG_motoadve]

Wont buy Korea, does not interest me that much compared to WWII.

[354thFG_Panda_]

I will buy Korea, it interests me as much as WWII.

[Cpt_Siddy]

9 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

A Korean War expansion could be the ticket into finally having some carrier ops without the "...data issue..." of Japanese aircraft...

 

UN Forces:

F4U Corsair, F9F Panther, Hawker Sea Fury, F-80 Shooting Star, B-26 Invader, (B-29 AI only...)

 

North Korea/China:

IL-10, Yak-9P, La-11, MiG-15, Tu-2

 

F-86A as a collector aircraft. Time frame could be from Sep 1950 to Dec 1950, there was a ton of air activity including air combat between props as well as props vs jets.  Deciding on a map(s) would be the main issue

Really not t-bag plane set. 

 

 

There also one other little conflict that happened in same time frame and had WW2 stuff engaged with Jets. Ladies and gents, i present you: IL-2 Straits of Formosa 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Cpt_Siddy

[CountZero]

Same like Korea, not posible in ths engine, map is huge, you have naval units , you have more jet types and you have to make air to air missiels as that one is famous for first use of them, and you have even less props then in korea. For both there is to many - then + doing them when you have ww2 stuff you can do before game gets to old and they go for new engine and make all again in it...

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

19 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

But the Western piston engine planes were almost exclusively used for groundpounding. The Eastern piston engine planes were almost immediately wiped out. So Air to Air combat basically comes down to Mig15 vs Sabre pretty soon. 
 

Can be a fun concept surely - but not for me personally. 

Not for me either.

[Pict]

23 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Wont buy Korea, does not interest me that much compared to WWII.

 

I almost feel the same way, but it depends on how Korea would be done and how it would affect future development of WWII.

 

Needless to say the team would at least equal the standards they have already set if they went ahead with a Korean add-on, but then that would apply to anything they did. So what I'm driving at is more about content than quality.

 

As has been mentioned the Korean war not only covered a large time-span right at the transitional period between piston & jet, which is reflected in the large variety of aircraft deployed but also a large geographical area, that also took in carrier operations. Plus the Korean peninsula at approximately 250km wide, is about as wide as the upcoming Normandy map.

 

Neither of these attributes lend themselves to a one off "Battle of Korea" edition covers all approach.

 

Carrier ops would be a must and lots of fun for the Blue pilots, but without it Korea would be a pretty dry for the UN side. (pun intended). For the "Red" pilots dry is the only option and as @216th_Catalready highlighted, they will only have one jet available in the shape of the MiG-15.

 

A B-29 (AI) would be a must have as this was a key factor not just in the air war over Korea, but affected how the war was prosecuted overall. A B-29 (AI) would also provide some interest for Red pilots in the target sense and compensate a little for an otherwise dry scenario. As I understand it, the Korean war was more about MiG vs. B-29 than MiG vs. Sabre.

 

So, with all of that in mind I reckon it would take at least 3 add-on's to do it any kind of justice. Sort of Early, Late & Carrier Ops, with associated Battle of names, maps, plane sets and collector planes.

 

By all means follow the usual route of putting the hot rods up for grabs first to turn a quick dollar, but if that all it winds up being, ie., MiG vs Sabre, then I wouldn't be very interested either and certainly wouldn't be happy to pay the same as I would for a decent WWII add-on like a Battle of Dieppe, or a Battle of France or a Battle of Singapore (there's a thing) or what have you.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Pict

[migmadmarine]

I'd love to see a Korean war module, but after more of WWII has been covered.