Guy's (Martin) WW2 "dogfight".

[Sokol1]

 

 

 

 

The whole "Battle of Britain" series, since Tiger Moth first flight, Link Trainer, etc.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

The Brits certainly like to pump that style of documentary out don’t they..

[Diggun]

1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

The Brits certainly like to pump that style of documentary out don’t they..

V generous calling it a documentary. And rest assured, plenty of us find it very embarrassing...

[354thFG_Leifr]

Guy Martin is the new Fred Dibnah, eternally spawning cheap 'documentaries' with very little substance. He leans in to the flag-waving side of the British identity too hard for my liking...

 

I can't stand him.

[HappyHaddock]

I think the phrase is "aimiable tosh"   if you don't take it seriously it's all good fun, essentially Channel 4 doing what  BBC's "Top Gear" did for motoring except you don't have to endure Jeremy Clarkson on channel 4 and even if it is a bit lacking in depth Guy Martin manages to stay the right side of being politically incorrect.

[Irishratticus72]

I like Guy Martin, he seems enthusiastic about stuff he doesn't know much about. 

[itsbillyfrazier]

GM is not the worst, I'd take him over someone like Michael Portillo any day when it comes to one of these British style "documentaries". 

 

Besides, he has also taken part and been competitive in a number of Isle of Man TT's and road races throughout the UK and Ireland.

 

This kinda gives him a pass from me on most things. While not everyone's cuppa, the man has undoubtedly got a serious pair of balls to go through what he did and still get on a motorbike.

[Feathered_IV]

The style of documentary here in Australia somewhat different.  The host is usually a former current affairs presenter.  One who struggled with alcohol and is trying to make a comeback.  They lean into the flag waving really hard and promote the show for weeks in advance as “The television event no Aussie family should miss!”.  The presenter is invariably placed on a windy hillside to do his piece, with more hairspray than than any other man alive.  The script can generally be broken down into: “Gosh they were tough.  Incredibly tough. But regular people, just like you and me. Except tough.  And laconic... so incredibly laconic.  Waaaay more laconic than you and me.”

[ST_Catchov]

I've seen The Battle of Britain. The accents were all plummy Oxford/Cambridge type chaps. Heroes, not George Formby clowns. Good Lord, TV these days. No class.

[Diggun]

10 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

I've seen The Battle of Britain

I think this illustrates one of the problems with 'documentaries' like this one (and the psyche of a certain, very loud, portion of the English public) - they tend to confuse the 1969 movie 'The Battle Of Britain' with the 1940 historical event 'The Battle Of Britain'. We would be well served to mind carefully the many and various  differences between the two. Fighter command may have gone into WW2 with a preponderance of privately educated elite as pilots (as did the LW), but by the end of the BOB it was one of the most diverse (in terms of geographical origin of its combat personnel) forces of the war. 

 

Apologies if your comment was meant as tongue-in-cheek, it is hard to tell via the medium of text. 

[Trooper117]

Nothing wrong with GM... he's just a regular bloke getting to do extraordinary things. I suspect some people are green with envy just because they will never do what he gets up to.

He deserves respect for someone who has raced full pelt around the TT circuit on the Isle of Man as a competitor, (as do all of them with the bollocks to do so)... that alone takes nerves of steel.

[Diggun]

53 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Nothing wrong with GM

Oh agreed, a really nice bloke & humble too!

[ST_Catchov]

1 hour ago, Diggun said:

Apologies if your comment was meant as tongue-in-cheek, it is hard to tell via the medium of text. 

 

Lol yeah tongue firmly planted. The BoB movie was full of cliches (plummy accents) and bad haircuts. I was just being facetious as usual ha.

[BladeMeister]

1 hour ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

The BoB movie was full of cliches (plummy accents) and bad haircuts.

BLASPHEMY I TELL YOU!

PURE BLASPHEMY!!!

OFF WITH YOUR HEAD OLD BOY!

 

S!Blade<><

Edited July 7, 2021 by BladeMeister

[DD_Fenrir]

Regarding "plummy" British accents, even the sergeant Volunteer Reserve pilots tended to come from Middle Class backgrounds as a standard of education was expected and given the tendency in the '20s and '30s to move towards Received Pronunciation as a standard sought in schools in Great Britain, it would have been very rare to find much "ee by gum", "ark at ee", "cor blimey guvnor" or "by eck" emanating from the R/T. 

 

I'm sure there were exceptions - some Halton apprentices (ground trades school) that showed a high standard of skill were permitted to apply for flying training - but assuming modern day class warrior agendas apply to historical accents is a bit of a stretch. 

[Diggun]

A case in point- one of these from a few years ago, 'Guy Martin's Spitfire', had Guy assisting with the 'restoration to flying condition' of a Spitfire Mk1 recovered from under the sand of a beach near Dunkirk. 

 

Quite apart from the disingenuous usage of 'restoration' to mean 'building an entirely new aircraft and incorporating >1% of material from the original, and claiming its the same one', the programme featured a section where Guy would fire 'one of the same guns used in the Spitfire'. The implication was very clearly that they meant the same as the Spitfire under restoration, but the section showed Guy merrily blazing away at an old car with... A Browning .50 cal. Sigh. 

 

This is poor research at best and flat out misleading your audience at worst. 

 

I realise that the vast majority of people watching will not notice or care, but this kind of routine inaccuracy enables the greater inaccuracies in Spitfire 'documentaries' like this* about 'the aircraft that won the war/saved Britain' (i.e. got fewer than 1/3 of all RAF air to air kills during the whole of WW2, and a similar % during the BoB) to also slip through the net unquestioned. Still, never let the truth get in the way of a good story / excuse for some stirring music / myth building... 

 

... None of this to denegrate Guy, I don't think he writes the script! 

 

*see also the BoB & Bomber Command 'docs' by the MacGregor brothers, the 2018 'Spitfire' documentary film, et cetra ad nauseum... 

 

I shall now dismount my soap box. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. 

26 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

but assuming modern day class warrior agendas apply to historical accents is a bit of a stretch. 

Interested to see who you thought was doing that. 

 

My (clearly stated) point was that by late 1940 the RAF was very international. So while ee by gum might not have been heard over R/T in flight, Aussie, Kiwi, Kanuk, Yank, Saffa, Polish, Czech, French, Belgian, Dutch, and many more accents were. 

 

Apologies if the reality is too woke for you. 

 

[AndyJWest]

Regarding the way almost entirely new warbirds are described as 'restorations', that is how the industry works, and they've been working that way for many years. If you have an original manufacturer's identity plate, you can 'rebuild' an aircraft around it, without needing the certification (to latest safety standards) that a 'new' aircraft would require. It is a legal fiction, but one that enables people to see aircraft of obsolete design in flight.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

I noticed there's also the "Jhoost E-madjin" style of documentary too.  Usually presented by two blokes with regional dialects who go out to the site of old battlefields and stand around going:  E-madjin...  Standin' ere an seeing all them Gairmans coomin over that 'ill...   Wha woo'd that be like...?   Jhoost e-madjin!

[DD_Fenrir]

34 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Interested to see who you thought was doing that. 

 

A curious statement as by what follows you clearly assume yourself...

 

34 minutes ago, Diggun said:

My (clearly stated) point was that by late 1940 the RAF was very international. So while ee by gum might not have been heard over R/T in flight, Aussie, Kiwi, Kanuk, Yank, Saffa, Polish, Czech, French, Belgian, Dutch, and many more accents were. 

 

 

Where did I ever refute, challenge or in anyway shape or form otherwise indicate I believe any of what you have written above is untrue? I whole heartedly agree.

 

My point, which should be clear, is that there seems to be some kind of assumption that because English RAF pilots are represented in film to have "posh" accents that there was/is some kind of conspiracy to insinuate that English RAF fighter pilots were all toffs, when the reality is far from the case.

 

Go listen to interviews with James Edgar "Johnny" Johnson, Ginger Lacey and Tom Neil; then look at their backgrounds. 

 

34 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Apologies if the reality is too woke for you. 

 

 

Wind your neck in chum. Clearly you're actively seeking out an some sort of conflict here. If so, then I'll happily oblige but given that I've already dismantled your imaginary beef with me, I can't imagine what you hope to get out of it.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by DD_Fenrir

[itsbillyfrazier]

1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

I noticed there's also the "Jhoost E-madjin" style of documentary too.  Usually presented by two blokes with regional dialects who go out to the site of old battlefields and stand around going:  E-madjin...  Standin' ere an seeing all them Gairmans coomin over that 'ill...   Wha woo'd that be like...?   Jhoost e-madjin!

 

Kind of unfortunate that modern day documentaries rely as much on the host(s)/narrator draw than on the actual documentary topic. 

 

Lots of quasi documentaries these days.... A strange blend of reality/celebrity TV where accuracy of reporting is usually second in importance to entertainment value.

[Irishratticus72]

9 minutes ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

 

Kind of unfortunate that modern day documentaries rely as much on the host(s)/narrator draw than on the actual documentary topic. 

 

Lots of quasi documentaries these days.... A strange blend of reality/celebrity TV where accuracy of reporting is usually second in importance to entertainment value.

Like Enda Kenny's love of trains...... ?

21 hours ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

GM is not the worst, I'd take him over someone like Michael Portillo any day when it comes to one of these British style "documentaries". 

 

Besides, he has also taken part and been competitive in a number of Isle of Man TT's and road races throughout the UK and Ireland.

 

This kinda gives him a pass from me on most things. While not everyone's cuppa, the man has undoubtedly got a serious pair of balls to go through what he did and still get on a motorbike.

Gotta disagree there, I loved Portillo's train documentaries. 

[itsbillyfrazier]

2 minutes ago, Irishratticus72 said:

Like Enda Kenny's love of trains...... ?

 

Lol - I didn't even bother... FG and Enda should all jump on a train and never come back... (Seriously though, any good? ?)

 

4 minutes ago, Irishratticus72 said:

Gotta disagree there, I loved Portillo's train documentaries. 

TBF, the content is usually good on Portillo's docs and I'd be lying if i said I didn't enjoy some of them,  I'm just not a fan of  ole Tory boy Michael.

 

 I should be thankful to him though, pretty sure his outfits helped cure my color blindness.

@Irishratticus72 I'm tempted to watch Portillo's recent Irish history docs... Kind of intriguing to see what sort of perspective he will put on it given his own background. You never know, he could swing my opinion of him yet...but never on the outfits, they are unforgivable ?

 

Have you checked those docs out yet?

 

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

 

Kind of unfortunate that modern day documentaries rely as much on the host(s)/narrator draw than on the actual documentary topic. 

 

Lots of quasi documentaries these days.... A strange blend of reality/celebrity TV where accuracy of reporting is usually second in importance to entertainment value.

 

You've hit the nail on the head.  These days we have "infotainment".

The problem tv history has in a WW2 context is that the first - Jeremy Isaac's 'The World at War' - will always be the best.

 

 

Just like Rap music....

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, Irishratticus72 said:

Gotta disagree there, I loved Portillo's train documentaries. 

 

Me too mate!

[Irishratticus72]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Me too mate!

Flavour is fleeting, taste is forever. 

6 hours ago, itsbillyfrazier said:

Lol - I didn't even bother... FG and Enda should all jump on a train and never come back... (Seriously though, any good? ?)

 

TBF, the content is usually good on Portillo's docs and I'd be lying if i said I didn't enjoy some of them,  I'm just not a fan of  ole Tory boy Michael.

 

 I should be thankful to him though, pretty sure his outfits helped cure my color blindness.

@Irishratticus72 I'm tempted to watch Portillo's recent Irish history docs... Kind of intriguing to see what sort of perspective he will put on it given his own background. You never know, he could swing my opinion of him yet...but never on the outfits, they are unforgivable ?

 

Have you checked those docs out yet?

 

Yeah, pretty staid, and safe, understandable. If you want an English account of Irish history, highly recommend Charles Townshend's Easter 1916. Gotta love those heavy German bolt actions.....

Edited July 7, 2021 by Irishratticus72

[ST_Catchov]

7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

You've hit the nail on the head.  These days we have "infotainment".

The problem tv history has in a WW2 context is that the first - Jeremy Isaac's 'The World at War' - will always be the best.

 

 

Just like Rap music....

 

WW2 is big business these days it seems. And I keep getting sucked in lol. And yes, 'The World at War' was a magnificent, quality 26 part series I remember with much nostalgic fondness as a youngster when the BBC was all class. If a bit toffy.

 

Don't get me started on rap/hip hop music please ....