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Gloster meteor for il2 BOBP Collector Plane


Luger1969
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Gloster Meteor  

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  1. 1. Gloster Meteor

    • Gloster Meteor- Yes
    • Gloster Meteor- No


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Luger1969

With June so full of surprises I want to throw this one in as well. (Snipe/Siemens/C47/Li2/IAR) As Collector plane.

 

Me Vote 1¬†ūüėá

 

Also: Never flown 262...but gameplay options/depth Meteor vs 262 sounds very good.

 

 

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  • Luger1969 changed the title to Gloster meteor for il2 BOBP Collector Plane
  • 2 weeks later...
AEthelraedUnraed

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

Would I like it as a collector plane? Sure. But I think there's a long list of more important planes left before they ought to do the Meteor.

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3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

No, but it was active over England in shooting down V-1s and flew armed recon missions over the Rhineland map in the spring of 45. 

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352nd_Hoss
4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

Would I like it as a collector plane? Sure. But I think there's a long list of more important planes left before they ought to do the Meteor.

 

4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

Would I like it as a collector plane? Sure. But I think there's a long list of more important planes left before they ought to do the Meteor.

 

These are some I'd like to see make into the game!

 

RAF = Beaufighter, Bleinheim, Hampdon, Baltimore, Wellington...............  Tu-2, Su-2, SB-2.......... OKL = Storch, Ju-188, Mistel, Me-162 ............   USAAF = A-20G, Flyable B-26, B25, Stinson, A-26, P-51A/Apache/Mk 1.  And if we get a Leningrad map the Finnish Air Force Blenheim's, Bulldogs, Fokker DXX1, Fiat G-50, Gloster Gauntlet, Gladiator, M. S. 406, Brewster 239, Lysander................. VVS = I-15, I-15bis, I-153, DB-3, SB-2, SB-2bis.............   Of course we already have the early OKL and VVS planes that would fit into this scenario............  Doable possibilities are not endless but there is still loads of content for us to experience. 

 

Cheers............. 

 

 

Edited by 352nd_Hoss
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Cybermat47

We’ll soon have not one, but two maps for it, so a definite yes from me!

 

It’d also be interesting to see how it goes against the Me-262. AFAIK the 262 should have the upper hand unless it’s engines catch fire, which the Meteor doesn’t have to worry about (at least not as much).

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BlackSix

I think Gloster Meteor is a great candidate for a collector aircraft. It's unlikely that it would have been included in the bundle of any new game. We could use it in our careers and it would be an interesting opponent for the Me 262 in multiplayer.
This is my personal opinion, we're not dealing with this plane.

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twilson37

I think the idea of a Meteor as a collector aircraft is great, there is just so many other aircraft I personally would like to see before it.

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  • 5 weeks later...
sevenless

Meteor for hunting doodlebugs with 616 sqn in 1944 over Kent and for air-ground strikes in 1945 on Rheinland map. Perfect!

 

image.png.d08f04592ee1c595101b8a59a9b75b9b.pngimage.png.d73fd652998dae78b8a9c0de7c317430.png

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Trooper117

Waste of time... Historically it can only be used for V1 hunting (F1 version for that I think) and they only bagged 12 or 13.

By the time they were allowed over the channel they were on the F3 version in late January 1945, only allowed to do armed recce and ground attack, no air to air combat seen let alone a go at the 262.

As others have said, much more important aircraft are needed.

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Avimimus

I'd personally much prefer a Vampire (or Venom) for a Berlin Airlift or 1950s Europe scenario.

 

It might be tempting if some of the research for a Korean war era Meteor could be re-used to make a WWII one - but the fact is that they were very different planes (engines, cockpit, fuselage) by then. So I still lean towards waiting until we have a 1950-1955 scenario and doing a later bird.

 

I'd also probably go for a He-162 first (although putting it ahead of a P-80/F-80 or Meteor is a bit hard to justify - I like emergency fighters, and we've almost exhausted the German planeset... making it hard to do balanced scenarios without incurring the costs of modelling more twin engined aircraft).

 

Honestly though, I lean towards focussing on completing the WW2 plane set (I-153, Ju-188, Mustang I ...lots of other birds are missing). 

Edited by Avimimus
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Missionbug

I would like to see the Meteor personally as a collector aircraft, however, even for me there are many more aircraft missing from our current maps that I would prefer to see made first and I think at the end of the day that would be the deciding factor for the development team as the aircraft in this collection have to be viable for them to make.;)

 

Many, me included, would rather pay for the list of types mentioned in the post by352nd_Hoss..:drinks:

 

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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352nd_Hoss

 

1 hour ago, Hoots said:

Always found the meteor to be a bit meh. Vampire or venom would be much better. 

Me too.............. I did enjoy it in 1946, but we might as well throw in the YP-80A while we are talking about jets on the Continent, and not just chasing doodlebugs.....

Project Extraversion: Four of these early American jets, properly known as YP-80A models, went overseas ‚Äď two each to England and Italy. They were fully operational. They were less successful in England than in Italy and today their contribution is hardly remembered at all.

Full story here

 

 

Cheers

Hoss

Edited by 352nd_Hoss
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CountZero

Its only allied jet that saw combat in ww2 and they can fit it on two maps, its shame not to add it.

Better it then any more axis jets, that were rushed in air just of neccesity, allieds didnt have to push their jets in combat just because war was already over in 44.

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352nd_Hoss

P-80 and Meteor can be used in early Korean scenarios against some Russian planes the NK had early in the war.  We still need that Tu-2 (Bat), IL-10(Beast), Yak-9 (Frank), La-9 (Fritz) La-11 (Fang)....... already have the Po-2 (Mule).... yeah, I started drinking early...... flights of fantasy...

 

Cheers

Hoss

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BlackSix
On 8/11/2021 at 10:32 PM, sevenless said:

Meteor for hunting doodlebugs with 616 sqn in 1944 over Kent and for air-ground strikes in 1945 on Rheinland map. Perfect!

Yes, we've maps for this aircraft and it can be used in a career and this is its main advantage over the He 162, for example.

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sevenless
Just now, BlackSix said:

Yes, we've maps for this aircraft and it can be used in a career and this is its main advantage over the He 162, for example.

 

True. Another problem with He 162 is, that they were used operationally only in the last 4 weeks in April 1945 north of the Elbe river, so that is outside the timeframe and map of Rhineland.

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Trooper117

I wouldn't want the devs to waste time on any jet, allied or German that saw next to no service... these aircraft would be a 'nice to have' element if and when they have exhausted other much needed types that played a major role on the maps they produce.

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CountZero
1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I wouldn't want the devs to waste time on any jet, allied or German that saw next to no service... these aircraft would be a 'nice to have' element if and when they have exhausted other much needed types that played a major role on the maps they produce.

Yes its no question, if you have option betwen B-25, B-26 or some other option like earlyer fighters that fit maps or Meteor, he is last one to add.

Its just not so odd option when it fits what they have in game now, and SP missions would be interesting.

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616Sqn_Tyggz
1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I wouldn't want the devs to waste time on any jet, allied or German that saw next to no service... these aircraft would be a 'nice to have' element if and when they have exhausted other much needed types that played a major role on the maps they produce.

 

While I do agree there are a lot of aircraft which could really help flesh out the pre 1944 channel front aircraft set. (My top choices being the Beaufighter, early Spit IX, Boston Mk III)

I do also feel as if the Meteor lends itself particularly well to just being a collector plane since it's a little more niche and wouldn't sit very well as an aircraft in any module.

Even more so, it would make for some unique gameplay considering most of the Western Europe aircraft we have are super fighters - A campaign for exclusively intercepting V-1s and shooting up ground targets would be a blast.

 

I reckon those cannon in the nose would have a better chance at picking V-1s off at long range. :biggrin:

Gloster_Meteor_Mk_Is_of_No._616_Squadron

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14 minutes ago, 616Sqn_Tyggz said:

Beaufighter, early Spit IX, Boston Mk III

All of these (especially the early IX) 1st please.

 

Plus Fi 156, HS 123, & FW 189 for the opposition...

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Trooper117
1 hour ago, 616Sqn_Tyggz said:

I do also feel as if the Meteor lends itself particularly well to just being a collector plane since it's a little more niche and wouldn't sit very well as an aircraft in any module.

Even more so, it would make for some unique gameplay considering most of the Western Europe aircraft we have are super fighters - A campaign for exclusively intercepting V-1s and shooting up ground targets would be a blast.

 

Then you would need the F1 for V1 intercepts, and the F3 for ground attacking...

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Uufflakke
On 7/11/2021 at 7:44 PM, Roast said:

Jolly Good idea ūüĎć

 

GlosterMeteorMelsbroek.jpg

 

 

Even the Gloster Meteor do get a nasal swab test to see if it is infected with COVID-19? :huh::blink:

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-332FG-drewm3i-VR
On 7/11/2021 at 3:45 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

Would I like it as a collector plane? Sure. But I think there's a long list of more important planes left before they ought to do the Meteor.

This.

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616Sqn_Johnny-Red

I'm up for the Meteor. It's beautiful. I can't imagine a plane I'd rather take for a joyride in. Quiet, smoothe, and fast like the 262, but with a very different set of flight characteristsics and fighting qualities. I'd love to see what the devs make of it; the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

If 1CGS can build (or find a partner to build) the Meteor, I'm in with both feet, as no doubt will be the rest of 616 Squadron. Put it up for pre-order and you can have my money yesterday.

 

Chasing V1's bound for London to Queen's "Flash". Awesome. For that alone this plane is a must. Every Vengeance Weapon that falls on London kills 3 and maims 8. I don't even like London, but I prefer humans to killer robots so I'll do my best to interfere with the casualty projections.

 

I expect we'll need both the Mk I and Mk III versions to cover the anti-Diver Camaign and close support to the end of the war. Does anyone know what the difference is appart for the engine power and canopies?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, drewm3i-VR said:
On 7/11/2021 at 8:45 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The Meteor never did air to air combat.

 

Would I like it as a collector plane? Sure. But I think there's a long list of more important planes left before they ought to do the Meteor.

This.

 

This and this.

 

On 7/23/2021 at 11:23 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

Because it saw no use over the maps we have. Especially not in air to air missions. 

 

"The Meteor never did air combat." It's an incorrect statement, now repeated and repeated. The conventional wisdom argument, even when actually false: I'm not wasting any of my own time on this.

 

The Poll asked a binary question:

 

Do you want a Gloster Meteor? Yes or no?

 

The question has been re-framed as "Do you want a Meteor, or that thing you most want instead?" Now that's not really fair. Statistically speaking (unless you are mad and it's the one thing you want more than everything): One thing versus everything. It's not a fair exchange.

When I'm asked do I want a Bf109G-10/AS should I vote no because I want a Beaufighter VI? No. I don't know now. I used to think the answer was yes, because lots of people clearly want it, and so do I, but is it the thing I really want the most? No.

 

I'm so confused. Ta152H-1? No? Salamander? No? Now there are a couple of planes that tick even fewer boxes.

 

If we were talking about a 10 plane or 10 tank set, 10 careers and a 4-phase campaign map made in 4 seasons it would clearly be an either / or choice: Such a protracted comittment on the part of a dev team would preclude the development of a similar sized project at the same time: But that's not this.

 

Do you want the Allied jet that was operational? The only one that you could build a campaign round and include in career mode on both Western Front maps?

 

It did see combat (even if it's connected to no claims over enemy aircraft).

 

Operationally it wasn't the most common or useful aircraft in the Allied arsenal, nobody is pretending it is; but the poll isn't a choice between the the Meteor and the Bf109G-10/AS, or a choice between the Meteor and the early and mid production Spitfire IX with the standard rudder, with 15, 18 and 25lbs boost and the C-wing.

 

I'd pay for any or all of these things, but that wasn't the question.

 

The question is "do you want the Meteor", not "does the Meteor  represent a complex of sacrifices and insecurities".

 

To be clear, I am buying the IAR 80 the moment it goes on sale for pre-order. It's beautiful, characterful and will likely be fun to fly. For me this is the same vibe.

 

I didn't detect the same cynicism or negativity when I preordered the Tante Ju or the U2. I'm also buying the Siemens because it would be rude to just buy the Snipe.

 

The vast majority of people who have voted no in this poll will buy the Meteor, and everyone who voted yes will buy it.

 

Get back to me on this is you disagree.

 

It's not another U2, in fact it's the opposite; it's a very sweet looking capable and purposeful jet that flew on operations for nearly a year and the fact of the matter is plainly obvious.

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AEthelraedUnraed
3 hours ago, 616Sqn_Johnny-Red said:

"The Meteor never did air combat." It's an incorrect statement, now repeated and repeated. The conventional wisdom argument, even when actually false: I'm not wasting any of my own time on this.

Please tell me then, when did the Meteor do air to air combat. All sources I could find tell it didn't.

 

3 hours ago, 616Sqn_Johnny-Red said:

The Poll asked a binary question:

 

Do you want a Gloster Meteor? Yes or no?

 

The question has been re-framed as "Do you want a Meteor, or that thing you most want instead?" Now that's not really fair. Statistically speaking (unless you are mad and it's the one thing you want more than everything): One thing versus everything. It's not a fair exchange.

The question, if taken literally, is completely nonsensical. Would I like a Meteor? Yes. As I would like a Fw200, a Me 163 or a Storch. All aircraft that we currently don't really have good missions for, yet all aircraft I'd prefer to the Meteor. But I would still like a Meteor. I doubt you're gonna find anyone who hates the Meteor so much that he'd say "no" to it if offered one. A question doesn't have much use if almost all people answer similarly. Would I like a million dollars? I sure as hell would! It's only after people learn what they'd have to do in return, that people answer negatively and the question becomes meaningful.

 

I therefore think we need to interpret the question slightly differently:

 

"Would you like the Devs to build the Meteor as an additional collector plane for BoN?"

 

That allows one to factor in the obvious disadvantages: less time and money to spend on other collector planes and content. 

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Cybermat47
20 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Please tell me then, when did the Meteor do air to air combat. All sources I could find tell it didn't.

 

If we're talking about WWII (and not counting V1s), never. But if we're talking about the Meteor's entire career, then it did see air-to-air combat against human-piloted aircraft.

 

'In April 1951 No 77 Squadron was re-equipped with Meteor jet fighters. The Australians gained their first confirmed MiG "kill" on 1 December when twelve Meteors were engaged by over fifty MiG 15s over Pyongyang. For the destruction of one MiG the squadron lost three Meteors with a further two damaged. This encounter highlighted the MiG's superiority in aerial combat, and as a result, the Meteors were confined to ground attack operations.'

 

https://www.airforce.gov.au/sites/default/files/minisite/static/7522/RAAFmuseum/research/units/77sqn.htm

 

'[George Hale] flew his first mission of the Korean War on 14th December 1952 on an Area Reconnaissance over the East Coast of North Korea. He later stated that on this mission they were flying close to MiG Alley and were told repeatedly to ‚ÄúKeep our heads up and locked‚ÄĚ. George quickly fitted in with the other squadron pilots and undertook many armed reconnaissance, road reconnaissance and ground attack missions. He named his first assigned Meteor ‚ÄúHalestorm and Snow‚ÄĚ a partial reference to his elder brother who served with the army in Korea and had flown with George in one of the squadron‚Äôs two-seat Meteor trainers.

 

He was assigned a new Meteor F.8, A77-851, which he named ‚ÄúHalestorm‚ÄĚ. Although flying close to MiG Alley, George indicated that he had not been briefed regarding potential MiG engagements and there were no specific squadron orders regarding such engagements.

 

On 27th March 1953 at approx 1420 hrs while on armed road reconnaissance, Hale, with Sgt David Irlam saw two MiG.15 fighters which they immediately engaged but at the same time were attacked by two more MiGs. Irlam was hit and took no further part in the engagement. Hale engaged one of these MiGs scoring hits and observed the Soviet fighter roll over and dive from 5000 to 4000 feet emitting dense black smoke.  Hale was attacked by two more MiGs which he also engaged then a third MiG pair attacked him from behind. Hale scored hits on the lead MiG of this third group which emitted dense white smoke or fuel vapour that almost completely obscured the aircraft. Both MiGs commenced a steep near vertical climb and Hale started to attack the lead’s wingman when his cannons stopped firing, out of ammunition. The MiGs departed and Hale turned and headed for Kimpo at low level. Hale was credited with one MiG probably destroyed and one MiG damaged. Thus ended the last air to air combat operation in which the RAAF has been engaged to this date.'

 

https://aviationmuseum.com.au/george-hale/

 

'Egyptian Meteors participated in the fighting during the Suez Crisis of 1956, typically being used in ground attack missions against Israeli forces. In one incident, an Egyptian Meteor NF Mk.13 claimed to have damaged an RAF Vickers Valiant bomber. An aerial bombing campaign of Egyptian airfields by Anglo-French forces resulted in several aircraft being destroyed on the ground; the Egyptian Air Force subsequently withdrew from combat within the Sinai region.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Egypt

 

'During the Suez Crisis, the RAF performed multiple high altitude reconnaissance flights over Syria by English Electric Canberra aircraft from bases in Cyprus. Lacking radar to track the aircraft, the Syrian Air Force developed a ground spotter network that reported information by telephone in an attempt to intercept these flights. On 6 November 1956, a Syrian Meteor successfully shot down a Canberra of No. 13 Squadron RAF, which crashed in Lebanon.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Syria

 

'On 1 September 1955, an Israeli Meteor shot down an Egyptian de Havilland Vampire, the first jet aircraft to be shot down in the theatre. The Meteor played a key role during the Suez Crisis; on 28 October 1956, an Israeli NF.13 took part in Operation Tarnegol, in which it successfully located and shot down an Egyptian Ilyushin Il-14 that had been carrying several high-ranking Egyptian military officers on the eve of the crisis. The operation had intended to shoot down the Il-14 that was supposed to be carrying the supreme commander of the Egyptian armed forces, Abdel Hakim Amer, however a different aircraft had been inadvertently attacked and destroyed instead. After deploying paratroopers east of the Suez Canal, the Israeli Air Force continued to support them on the ground predominantly using its jet aircraft, fearing its propeller-driven aircraft would be vulnerable against Egypt's jet fighters.

 

While initially flying combat air patrol missions, the Meteors and other Israeli aircraft could not prevent effective attacks by Egyptian aircraft on the ground forces. Israeli officers came to recognise that the Meteor was outclassed by Egyptian MiG-15s, and subsequently limited the Meteor's employment as a fighter against other aerial adversaries. Following the start of the Anglo-French bombing campaign against Egyptian airbases, the Egyptian Air Force mostly withdrew from combat in the Sinai, allowing Israeli aircraft to operate unhindered.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Israel

 

'The Argentine Meteors were first used in combat during the 16 June 1955 rebellion when, in an attempt to kill Juan Perón, rebel-flown aircraft bombed the Casa Rosada. A loyalist Meteor shot down a rebel AT-6, while another strafed rebel-held Ezeiza airport.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor#Argentina

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AEthelraedUnraed
20 minutes ago, Cybermat47 said:

If we're talking about WWII (and not counting V1s), never. But if we're talking about the Meteor's entire career, then it did see air-to-air combat against human-piloted aircraft.

Well, yes, but those are different types of the Meteor (and other theatres, and other opponents) than we would see as a collector plane ;)

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616Sqn_Johnny-Red
On 8/14/2021 at 7:55 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Please tell me then, when did the Meteor do air to air combat. All sources I could find tell it didn't.

 

616 Squadron used the Meteor I to conducted pursuit operations against the V1 from the day the type became operational (27th July '44). Although the Meteor wasn't particularly successful they did record the world's first jet-on-jet combat kill just over a week later.

 

This fact wasn't really the focus of my thinking, but considering the exceptional circumstances in which the skilled pilot (risking collision with a speeding cruise missile)  caused it to crash; it's an achievement all the more remarkable. I believe that all the subsequent balance of (11) jet-on-jet kills during WWII were achieved by the Meteor using guns.

 

616 Squadron ultimately claimed 12.5 V1 kills in 260 sorties, an average kill rate of just under one per twenty sorties. In this respect they were half as effective as the Spitfire XIV and one quarter the effectiveness of the Tempest V. Nonetheless, this was their mission.

 

It's difficult today (especially for experienced simmers more used to sentient and capable oponents) to relate to the rather novel duty these pilots had; chasing small jet powered explosive killer robots towards a major population centre; but for the pilots involved this was air-to-air combat, not bomb disposal. As an aside, around 90% of V1's shot down detonated upon crashing, the other 10% detonated in the pursuit pilot's gunsight.

 

image.thumb.png.f5961816b651032f3d122e3cf7f2ebe0.png

 

When the improved Meteor III was deployed to Continental Europe (20th January '45) it was in the defensive air-to-air role, with a reasonable expectation on the part of the RAF that the plane would see air-to-air combat. As time went by it became apparent that the offensive capability of the Luftwaffe in the west was critically degraded and that combat would have to be sought in enemy territory. Consequently the Meteor was cleared for offensive operations.

 

I don't blame the Lufwaffe for being a no-show (with manned planes over Britain, and later with any planes at all over the Western Front including inside Germany). They were far too busy at the time to justify the existence of the humble Meteor; but it's not really the Meteor's fault either.

 

On 8/14/2021 at 8:31 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well, yes, but those are different types of the Meteor (and other theatres, and other opponents) than we would see as a collector plane 

 

Meteor would require 1 engine mod and 1 canopy mod to cover its wartime service. Meteor I's were powered by the Rolls-Royce Welland and had the original structured side-opening canopy. Early Meteor III's (the first 15) were also powered by the Welland, but had a revised sliding bubble canopy and a windscreen with a less steep (more streamlined) incidence. Later war Meteor III's had the same canopy but with the more powerful Rolls-Royce Derwent engine.

 

I believe that all Meteors were fitted with the Ferranti Mk II gyroscopic gunsight and 4 Hispano Mk II cannon (with 150 rpg) and that no other weapons fit or additional stores were used.

 

 

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Eisenfaustus

Okay - so a Meteor in WWII saw no aerial combat against opponents who fought back or even tried to evade. 
 

Any career that had you face anything else than V1 would be an interesting what if scenario but wouldn’t fit the accuracy the current career strifes for…

 

And an accurate career that‚Äėll have you chasing V1s only sounds very boring to me.¬†
 

If either is what you’re after - cool! Should it come enjoy!

 

But the answer to the question if I personally want the Meteor in IL-2 is simply no. I wouldn‚Äôt be outraged if it is included at any point but I wouldn‚Äėt buy or fly. And I personally would prefer if the devs spent their resources differently.¬†
 

There are a few planes similarly obscure I‚Äôd love to be added because the plane is a special ¬†interest of mine (Ta 152 H-1 for example)¬†yet I‚Äėm fully aware that a plane that saw so few limited action for a very short time span would hardly be more than a nice ¬†gimmick instead of a vital asset for a WWII combat sim.¬†

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Heliopause

As a side note: the first American jet to reach Britain was the third  YP-59A arriving in September 1943 at Moreton Valance for testing (in excange for a Gloster Meteor that travelled to the US).

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AEthelraedUnraed
10 hours ago, 616Sqn_Johnny-Red said:

chasing small jet powered explosive killer robots towards a major population centre; but for the pilots involved this was air-to-air combat, not bomb disposal.

I guess whether chasing V1s constitutes air to air combat or bomb disposal is a matter of semantics. Either way, it doesn't detract from my point that the Meteor never fought against manned enemy aircraft during WW2.

 

10 hours ago, 616Sqn_Johnny-Red said:

Meteor would require 1 engine mod and 1 canopy mod to cover its wartime service. Meteor I's were powered by the Rolls-Royce Welland and had the original structured side-opening canopy. Early Meteor III's (the first 15) were also powered by the Welland, but had a revised sliding bubble canopy and a windscreen with a less steep (more streamlined) incidence. Later war Meteor III's had the same canopy but with the more powerful Rolls-Royce Derwent engine.

But in these "wartime service" configurations, it didn't fight any German aircraft, which leads me back to my main point. The ones that did see aerial combat in the 50s were different types.

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Avimimus
On 8/13/2021 at 4:17 AM, sevenless said:

 

True. Another problem with He 162 is, that they were used operationally only in the last 4 weeks in April 1945 north of the Elbe river, so that is outside the timeframe and map of Rhineland.

 

Yes, it requires a 1945 East map and scenario I think... or alternate history where the BMW 003 became operational a month earlier (The engine first ran two months before the Jumo 004 - so it isn't impossible to imagine a scenario where the Me-262 found itself delayed awaiting an engine - while the He-162 saw mass entry into service).

 

That said, a lot of people might balk at even having an engine's development switched from 21 months to 20 months... that might be too much alternative history for them. It'd be a neat option though. That said, a 1945 East scenario is the better fit.

 

I also find the arguments about hunting V1 and Ground Attack sorties somewhat persuasive. We could definitely do with the I-153 (Moscow, ground attack in Kuban), or the Wellington or Il-4 (giving the allies a larger bomber and the Ju-88C something to hunt), or a Ju-188 (upping the defensive firepower of German bombers) or Do-217E... there are a lot of higher priorities for filling out existing scenarios... but I'll grant that the first operational allied Jet fighter in Europe could be interesting.

 

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

But in these "wartime service" configurations, it didn't fight any German aircraft, which leads me back to my main point. The ones that did see aerial combat in the 50s were different types.

 

On 8/14/2021 at 3:31 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well, yes, but those are different types of the Meteor (and other theatres, and other opponents) than we would see as a collector plane ;)

 

Yes, this is very much true. They'd still be great to see in a 1948-1955 set of scenarios... there are several British types that could be ignored if they just did Korea. However, if they also did a West German/Fulda Gap scenario set in the early 1950s one could have at least three very different British fighters (Venome, Meteor, Hunter), early Canberras, and pit them up against Mig-17 and Il-28... a slightly earlier Berlin Airlift scenario could also throw in transitional types (Vampire, La-15, Mig-9 or Yak-15). Suez crisis would also be interesting (Sea Hawk, Wyvern, as well as early French jets).

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ACG_Talisman

I thought the Meteor was the first operational jet fighter in the world.

 

I stand to be corrected if that is not the case.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

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dogefighter

"On May 2, Wing Cmdr. ‚ÄúSmokey‚ÄĚ Schrader replaced McDowell as commander of No. 616 Squadron. On the same day, one of the ‚ÄúMeatbox‚ÄĚ pilots encountered a Fieseler Fi.156 Storch, but the nimble liaison plane was able to outmaneuver the fighter and landed‚ÄĒafter which the Meteor strafed it to destruction."

 

Meteor III collector plane confirmed.

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JG4_dingsda
33 minutes ago, dogefighter said:

"On May 2, Wing Cmdr. ‚ÄúSmokey‚ÄĚ Schrader replaced McDowell as commander of No. 616 Squadron. On the same day, one of the ‚ÄúMeatbox‚ÄĚ pilots encountered a Fieseler Fi.156 Storch, but the nimble liaison plane was able to outmaneuver the fighter and landed‚ÄĒafter which the Meteor strafed it to destruction."

 

Meteor III collector plane confirmed.

spacer.png

 

Erm ... you meant to say Fieseler Fi 156 confirmed. :blush:

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sevenless
2 hours ago, ACG_Talisman said:

I thought the Meteor was the first operational jet fighter in the world.

 

I stand to be corrected if that is not the case.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

operational fighter yes, operational jet non 

 

23/05/44 - I./KG 51 - Kdo Schenk (bomber role) at Memmingen

26/07/44 - No. 616 sqn - Meteor I (fighter role) at Manston

26/09/44 - Kdo. Nowotny (fighter role) at Achmer

 

36 minutes ago, dogefighter said:

Meteor III collector plane confirmed.

 

Make that Meteor I/III

Edited by sevenless
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