Tactical Codes of 4./Sch.G 1 and 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1

[LukeFF]

Hey all,

 

I'm trying to straighten out here what sort of tactical codes were used by 4./Sch.G 1 and 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, both of which are Hs 129 units in career mode. So, first off, we have this skin of Oberleutnant Dornemann from the spring of 1943, which was elegantly displayed in this week's DD. So, that would give us a code format of Black Triangle + White Code Letter:

 

 

But then, we fast-forward to Kursk, and we now see that Dornemann is flying an Hs 129 from the same unit coded as Red L:

 

 

And, we also have this plane, assumed to be from 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, coded as Red H:

 

 

Finally, on Page 319 of Hs 129 Panzerjaeger!, there is this loss entry for January 20, 1943: Hs 129 B-2 W.Nr.0284 Coded F+(Triangle), 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1.

 

I have also read that the Luftwaffe command ordered the black triangles deleted around the end of April 1943. 

 

So, all of that said, did 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 change its coding at the end of April 1943 from Black Triangle + White Code Letter to a single red letter ahead of the fuselage cross? And, are there any other coding schemes they used that I'm not aware of at this point?

[sevenless]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

And, are there any other coding schemes they used that I'm not aware of at this point?

 

Jep, at Kursk, 4th squadron appears to have used blue letters and the ground attack triangle, blue is the standard color for the 4th squadron within a 4 squadron structured Gruppe. 1st squadron (white), 2nd (red or black), 3rd (yellow) and 4th (blue), which all belong to I./Sch. G 1.

 

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Decals/Exito_Decals/48004_Luftwaffe_Ground_Attackers_Vol1/ED48004_Schlachtflugzeuge_1.html

 

So, if they really stopped using the triangle, that appears to have been after Kursk, maybe in 8/44?

 

I guess the reason for 4th squadron having white letters in 5/43 was, that in may they still had a 3 squadron structure in SchG 1 before Kursk and 4th squadron in may was the first squadron of II. Sch G 1.

 

However I don't have any unit diary which could help here, but I am pretty hesitant to believe 4th squadron ever used red letters, because that would go against the standard color code of the LW.

 

I think in 8/44 4th/Sch G 1 became 10th (Pz)/SG 9 which would explain the red letters. 10th squadron is the 2nd squadron of III.Gruppe, hence red letters.

 

 

Looks like a 14th/SG 9 plane in 1945 (IV./SG9) to me. Compare to this:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

Jep, at Kursk, 4th squadron appears to have used blue letters and the ground attack triangle, blue is the standard color for the 4th squadron within a 4 squadron structured Gruppe. 1st squadron (white), 2nd (red or black), 3rd (yellow) and 4th (blue), which all belong to I./Sch. G 1.

 

Thanks - here's where it gets a bit odd - we know 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 used red code letters and horizontal bars, based on the many photos of Ruffer's Hs 129. So, that comes back around to 4./Sch.G 1 and 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1: from the available images (see attached link), are people misinterpreting the white as blue? It surely looks to me like Dornemann's plane had white letters:

 

@ICDP: you concluded that Dornemann's plane had white letters - are there any other photos out there besides the one in the linked topic showing his plane?

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by LukeFF

[LukeFF]

One more example of a plane marked with white letters from 4.(Pz.)/SchG 1:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by LukeFF

[sevenless]

19 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 from the available images (see attached link), are people misinterpreting the white as blue?

 

 

That wouldn´t surprize me too much. We already have seen other examples of misinterpretation of staffel colours in the past. The checkerboard Fw190s of JG1 in 1943 are a good example. Some people in the past were mislead that they used yellow, red and white/black checkerboards, however recent research turned out they indeed only used white/black checkerboards.

 

Best ist to go directly to the black white photographs.

 

17 hours ago, LukeFF said:

One more example of a plane marked with white letters from 4.(Pz.)/SchG 1:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

In late 1943 4.(Pz)/Sch.G. 1 wasn´t existing anymore. If it is 4th squadron, it only can be winter 42/43.

Edited June 27, 2021 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

In late 1943 4.(Pz)/Sch.G. 1 wasn´t existing anymore. If it is 4th squadron, it only can be winter 42/43.

 

Yes, my conclusion as well is that could only have been a typo.