Developer Diary, Part 68

[M4rgaux]

I love the moderation on this thread. Mods, your work is truly magical on my first post here,

 

Luckily, I kept screenie of my post and took liberty to forwarding it to support ( ?  time will tell ) team for BoS and oh so lovely brand new team completley divided between developing BoS and bullshizz WW1 RoF-spin off for Russian planes. AWESOME! Not.

 

Do the great job that you do, being drowned with Dev water while you defend it. Legendary, what this is.

 

@Hiro: troll of the year award. 

 

Screenshot!

 

EDIT: im only here due to e-mail notifications, btw. Moderated screenie in full: 

 

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q771/Clark_Kentovsky/Bosbyebye_zpse55e5d59.png~original

 

Even thought you speak nonsense in an aggressive way I kinda admire your rebellious way Clark.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

JG54 you guys are really starting to look like a bunch of ungrateful people.  Please just relax and wait until this game is at least released. Anything we get at this point is a gift.  I want to enjoy flying with you and against you.  But at this rate you are going to be banned way before this could ever happen.

[Matt]

 

 

Second point: Skinning has always been an issue, RoF has been that way for years because of cheaters using the particular color for clear throughout the entire paintscheme.

I must've missed that. I don't think such a skin would get approved and allowed in mods-off mode though.

 

I'm really curious how squadrons are supposed to be able to coordinate in any serious online war without the possibility to use skins or decals (original IL-2 or CloD style).

 

 

Third point: We're getting a FMB, a very capable one that people have been complaining about for years to have. Every FMB prior to this has been easy to use but extremely limited.

Well, i'm very familiar with the RoF FMB (i'm not one of those who got access to the BoS FMB though), but can you please explain in what way this FMB is less limited than the current FMBs in '46 and CloD (i'm not familiar with those). What feature advantages does it have as opposed to other FMBs, which people have been asking for for years and in what way did these missing feature limit the possibility to create missions or campaigns, especially in '46.

[IIN8II]

So they are mad that they don't have the 190 yet? Or are they mad that it will be available to everyone not just founders? From what I gather, the devs understand the need for a better more user friendly FMB. However it needs to be built from the ground up. The game is 51% we can live without the FMB while the mechanics and other features are finished, priorities....

[Matt]

Transparent skins are not an issue, unless you would be forced to install them (which i just can't see happening).

[Zak]

As I said before, Fw 190 will be added to early access in 2-3 weeks.

The way we'll manage user made skins will be announced later, closer to release.

Questions about refund are being solved via customer support.

[Pringliano]

Questions about refund are being solved via customer support.

 

Hmmm, I'd rather pay again for IL2!  Anyway, I'll gladly to pay for each and every add-on that will become available in the future, starting with the Fw-190, since I only have the Standard version.

 

Guy's, you're doing a great work, and I continue to admire the quality of this sim! I can't but dream about how it'll be when finished, or nearing, say, 90% !  

Edited June 23, 2014 by jcomm

[SYN_Vorlander]

I think its a great sim in development and I'm enjoying the new Stalingrad map for MP.

[IIN8II]

As I said before, Fw 190 will be added to early access in 2-3 weeks.

The way we'll manage user made skins will be announced later, closer to release.

Questions about refund are being solved via customer support.

Thank you Zak!

 

Again, I think that a majority of the community is happy with the way things are progressing. Keep up the great work!

[rigbyDerekb1948]

What a great ride this early access has been for me (and continues to be). I feel that I have had my money's-worth many times over. I am only regretting having purchased the "silver" edition, not the "gold", and must await the first possible opportunity to buy the extra two aircraft. 

Although it is a minor issue, I somehow missed the "fix" to the reversed-controls-issue (in my case the rudders and throttle), and do still "jiggle " the dead-zone settings to correct the inputs when starting the game. Interestingly, this "jiggling" also activates the curves which I applied to the three basic axes, which would otherwise continue to operate in a linear manner.  Another odd glitch that I have picked up is that, if I select the multiple opponent option in the quick missions, I must change the initial height-setting of my group before starting the mission. If I do not, I find myself starting on the runway (whatever the set height might be), with a maximum of three wingmen, and with the default "skin". If I then do take off, the wingmen remain on the runway and remain there for the rest of the mission. Although these issues are easily addressed on startup, it would be nice to know of any fixes that would sort them out.

To the Developers, thanks for a great sim,  - looking forward to the next update.

[Sokol1]

Can you say what price of La-5 and FW-190 will be ,thanks ,of course i will buy tham both .

 

Premium version of the game (with above planes) cost 99.99$

Standart (without) cost 59.99$

 

Difference = 40$

 

So I bet that Fw 190 and La5 will cost 20$ each - maybe less if buy both in pack. Or some "golds" will act like these people.

 

Sokol1

Edited June 23, 2014 by Sokol1

[BeastyBaiter]

That would be my guess too, possibly even $25 each since generally speaking, buying in a pack is cheaper. Whatever the price is, I'm sure there will periodically be sales on "old planes" as is done with RoF. But given that there is nothing old about BoS, I wouldn't expect any sales for a year or more.

[FuriousMeow]

I must've missed that. I don't think such a skin would get approved and allowed in mods-off mode though.

 

I'm really curious how squadrons are supposed to be able to coordinate in any serious online war without the possibility to use skins or decals (original IL-2 or CloD style).

 

 

Well, i'm very familiar with the RoF FMB (i'm not one of those who got access to the BoS FMB though), but can you please explain in what way this FMB is less limited than the current FMBs in '46 and CloD (i'm not familiar with those). What feature advantages does it have as opposed to other FMBs, which people have been asking for for years and in what way did these missing feature limit the possibility to create missions or campaigns, especially in '46.

 

First one - the whole point of the approval process is to keep planes from having transparancy issues in addition to not looking like complete crap. If the skin meets the guidelines, it gets approved. So no issue with wars or squadrons as long as the skin makes the approval. There are a lot of approved RoF skins - historical and ahistorical - so it isn't that hard. And the decals, I'm sorry - you won't notice those unless you are VERY close and in formation - which most squads don't do - to and from target. Forming up and flying to target at very close distances is the only time individual decals matter, and its only for a very few, and considering how inaccurate they were in the Il-2 series, its better to not have than to have.

 

Second one - It has the full capability to trigger at several points throughout the mission, and to link or unlink flights. I only scratched the surface of RoF's and I found way more to do with it than the '46 FMB. People wanted full control over the mission, they wanted flights to be able to separate at waypoints (like wing leader and wingman go one direction while 3 and 4 go a different direction which the flight linking allows). There is a whole lot more in RoF's mission builder to customize than '46. There are tons of features and abilities within the RoF FMB that allow full control over every aspect from start to finish of every flight, with triggers that can do an unlimited number of things. You want me to break down and find the differences? I'm not going to go back and install Il-2 to do that, but my experience with the FMB in Il-2 and RoF's is that RoF's allows far more control and that's why its so difficult because each element needs to be defined - not by flight like Il-2s, but by singular entities.

 

You couldn't turn a plane transparent in old IL2 and I'm guessing you couldn't in ClOD either.

Never been able to in any other game I've played that allowed reskinning either.

 

This is only an issue if the engine allows it.

I don't think it would take too much to change the way skins handle the Alpha channel to stop this being exploited.

 

You certainly could make a plane transparent in the Il-2 series. That was the precedence for the developers to disallow unapproved custom skins in mods-off for RoF, these guys were Il-2 players and they saw it happen, and they are creating an environment for online players as cheat free as possible. Offline, run mods off and you can load any skins you want - so it doesn't impact offline players at all.

Edited June 23, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

Transparent skins are not an issue, unless you would be forced to install them (which i just can't see happening).

 

The Il-2 series had the "download skin over network" option that so many seem to have forgotten.

 

Luckily RoF and BoS don't allow this, but there are other things I can think of - hyper colored planes that replace the actual camo of the plane so the end user that replaces the skin sees bright fuschia everywhere for their target of choice.

[Bearcat]

Premium version of the game (with above planes) cost 99.99$

Standart (without) cost 59.99$

 

Difference = 40$

 

So I bet that Fw 190 and La5 will cost 20$ each - maybe less if buy both in pack. Or some "golds" will act like these people.

 

Sokol1

 

I have no inside info but I would bet that it would be more than $20 .. even if it was just $5 more..  but we really don't know.. I don't think the devs have finalized that puece yet.. I think they are more concerned right now tith getting out a good product and I do believe that a lot of the issues mentioned in this thread with such passion will be addressed.

[ACG_Kraut]

Luckily RoF and BoS don't allow this, but there are other things I can think of - hyper colored planes that replace the actual camo of the plane so the end user that replaces the skin sees bright fuschia everywhere for their target of choice.

 

In reality though, even that is not a big deal.

 

All they are doing is ruining the immersion for themselves. The spotting is great here, so even if some one "cheats" with bright colors, the better pilot will still always win!

[Feathered_IV]

Anyone who did that would be an irredeemable loser before they even joined a server.

[Matt]

First one - the whole point of the approval process is to keep planes from having transparancy issues in addition to not looking like complete crap. If the skin meets the guidelines, it gets approved. So no issue with wars or squadrons as long as the skin makes the approval. There are a lot of approved RoF skins - historical and ahistorical - so it isn't that hard.

I'm aware of all that, but the point is, that we're not getting the RoF style skin approval system in Il-2 at all (atleast that was the last official statement i read). I would be OK with the RoF system, even though i think it might require too much work time and overall it should be free to everyone which skins he wants to download and see in his installment, as long as nobody else would be forced to see those too.

 

And the decals, I'm sorry - you won't notice those unless you are VERY close and in formation - which most squads don't do - to and from target. Forming up and flying to target at very close distances is the only time individual decals matter, and its only for a very few, and considering how inaccurate they were in the Il-2 series, its better to not have than to have.

Might still be better than to have nothing (on ranked servers). And they wouldn't need to be inaccurate here.

 

There are tons of features and abilities within the RoF FMB that allow full control over every aspect from start to finish of every flight, with triggers that can do an unlimited number of things. You want me to break down and find the differences? I'm not going to go back and install Il-2 to do that, but my experience with the FMB in Il-2 and RoF's is that RoF's allows far more control and that's why its so difficult because each element needs to be defined - not by flight like Il-2s, but by singular entities.

No, i wanted you to show some feature differences to back-up your claim. If splitting up flights works in RoF (which might be possible in SP), then that's one feature at least.

 

The Il-2 series had the "download skin over network" option that so many seem to have forgotten.

 

Luckily RoF and BoS don't allow this, but there are other things I can think of - hyper colored planes that replace the actual camo of the plane so the end user that replaces the skin sees bright fuschia everywhere for their target of choice.

Yes, IL-2 had the download skin over net option. No reason to have that here.

 

But if you're worried about people downloading your skins and they painting them bright pink, then only send them to your squadron mates. Or if for some reason an automatic skin download feature would get added (which would be a bad idea imho) and you're worried about other people cheating by repainting your skin, rename your skin every week or don't use a skin yourself.

 

 

But let's wait and see how this will eventually work in BoS.

[Bassly]

(edit) I've just googled - you'd have thought for a game that's been out for almost 14 years, if a transparent skin existed, Google would have indexed an image of it.

 

HSFX used to have sort of a invisible player bug, not a skin but still.

 

It also drops the Expanded squadrons and nations temporarily and removes the possibility of players accidentaly rendering themselves invisible by choosing a nation or formation that others don't have. 

(there is no advantage to this, invisible aircraft can do no damage but it can take a while for an invisible player to 'see' the error of his ways

http://forum.sturmovik.de/index.php?topic=1486.20

 

Also there was made a post while back on this forum too.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/488-micro-transactions/page-2?do=findComment&comment=9720

[Trident_109]

The skins were BMP files. No Alpha channel.

 

Please, anyone, send me a transparent skin for the original IL2 / FB / 1946 or a .ntrk file showing a plane in a transparent skin, as I have difficulty believing that they exist.

 

(edit) I've just googled - you'd have thought for a game that's been out for almost 14 years, if a transparent skin existed, Google would have indexed an image of it.

 

 

And it worked fantastically well.

 

If anybody was worried about downloading an ahistorical skin, which could potentially spoil their enjoyment, they could disable the feature. It wasn't mandatory.

I believe it could be disabled server-side as well.

 

The Il2 skin system would have been the ideal model to emulate.

 

Unfortunately by the sound of it, what we'll get instead instead will be far less accommodating or useful.

I've been playing IL2 since 2002 and have been a consistent reader of forums since then. There's rarely a day that's gone by that I've not read two or three FS forums. Many of the same people have been in those forums. Over the course of those twelve years I've never heard of a transparent skin cheat being used. I've not read any thing regarding transparent skins until the whole BoS skin development.

 

Could I have missed it? Hmmmmmmmmmm, well, I never really explored the AAA or other mod forums; so possibly, but I still think there would be mention of transparent skins on the other forums if that were the case. Almost every other aspect of modification has been discussed and argued all over the place.

 

To me transparent skins would have been the biggest cheat of them all, surpassing flight models and elevated firepower. Hell, we'd have argued transparent skins even more than the FW cockpit bar, more than the P51 center of gravity debacle, more than patch release 4.01's beta flight model being more realistic than the official 4.01 release's FM. It would be mentioned even more than the proverbial TWO WEEKS and the oft quoted Oleg's comments about the Spitfire being made of wood.

 

I'm not even sure on how they would work. Would they render the plane invisible to other flyers or would they render a cockpit transparent for Wonder Woman view? I'm betting the former, but I just want to be sure. That's how little I'm aware of this issue in IL2. I don't think it ever was an issue, never mind being capable of happening.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Robert

[Uufflakke]

I've been playing IL2 since 2002 and have been a consistent reader of forums since then. There's rarely a day that's gone by that I've not read two or three FS forums. Many of the same people have been in those forums. Over the course of those twelve years I've never heard of a transparent skin cheat being used. I've not read any thing regarding transparent skins until the whole BoS skin development.

 

Could I have missed it? Hmmmmmmmmmm, well, I never really explored the AAA or other mod forums; so possibly, but I still think there would be mention of transparent skins on the other forums if that were the case. Almost every other aspect of modification has been discussed and argued all over the place.

 

Quote from Luthier at 1C COD forum back in 2011:

No that's not true, sorry if I was unclear. We won't ban you for SSAO, but we will ban you for FM / DM modifications, transparent textures, etc.

 

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=21362&page=2

 

I have heard of it before somewhere at Ubi forum and/or AAA.

Don't ask me how it works...

[Uufflakke]

The reason why you don't see these kind of  skins on screenshots is because planes become fully... transparent?

But seriously, maybe a myth indeed but on the other hand.

You are right that skins are 8-bits bitmaps. But damage models with their see through bullit holes etc. are 24-bits .tga's + 8-bits alpha layer.

Perhaps a clever guy knows how to manipulate that?

[Bearcat]

I just don't see what the big to do is about this.. pink skin.. orange skin.. neon skin... if the guy in that skin is a better pilot even if you see him coming he will wax you .. all these other what if's and suppositions are just a waste of time. The only reason I can see for limiting skins that goes beyond the host being able to set skin downloads or deafaults is if it causes an issue with packet loss.. otherwise all that other stuff is nonsense. I have never seen an invisible plane in IL2. I have seen invisible players but that had nothing to do with their skins and was a downright hack cheat, and that was rare. Look I have been in IL2 for 13 years and I don't know anyone.. anyone who would resort to something like that in order to gain an advantage.. and again as I said.. even if he has that advantage ... if he sucks as a virtual pilot he won't last long. I think that all of us as well as the development team need to concentrate on the simming and stop worrying about the BS... Cheaters will find a way to cheat.. and a cheat and an exploit are two totally different things.  No sim .. no PC game is ever going to be 100% exploit free..

 

For this sim to be truly successful in the long run and beyond the purview of a small but rabidly loyal fan base .... ... it needs to be the better choice when it comes to simming.. All that other stuff is ...................

[novicebutdeadly]

The only invisible planes that I have encountered in il2, were invisible due to not using a default skin (as opposed to a skin hack), as the server did not allow non-default skins.

And they def did not have any advantage, in fact alot of the time their weapons caused little to no damage.

If you were on the receiving end it sounded like very light hail was hitting your plane.

Sure it did eventually cause damage, but for the amount of ammo they expended for the end result, would make it utterly pointless.

And if memory serves me correctly, on the player list (hitting "S") it would show them as not being in a plane, so it was rather easy to find out players having "issues".

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by 907-novicebutdeadly

[No145_Bunny]

^Hello,

^{I don't normally post in forums, but sometimes I really despair of our Flight Sim community.}

^{Here is one of VERY FEW flight simulator developers trying their best to provide us with a decent simulator that promised a lot and to be honest with you has delivered in most cases. It is only ALPHA at the moment and we lucky consumers have had the chance to be a part of that development from the start. The problem with Alpha is of course you get to see some of the good stuff early but also you get to see some of the problems and issues as well.}

 

^{Give the chaps in development a break and let them finish the game and then you can be as critical as you like.}

^{I expect we will get the 190 when its ready as promised as well as other stuff we haven't even asked for. As a business, they have to keep the income rolling in and if that means branching off into other areas then so be it. I would rather have that than NO game at all!}

 

^{Don't let us destroy one of the very few options we have for a dedicated WW2 flight simulator that will grow and expand on aircraft, maps and other goodies.}

 

^{Lets be honest here, we need them as much as they need us.}

 

^{Cheers and toodle pip!}

^{No_145 Bunster}

[Sokol1]

 

It is only ALPHA

 

Better "mantra": It is only ALPHA - with ~49% to do in the remaining ~15% of time. 

 

Sokol1

Edited June 25, 2014 by Sokol1

[SYN_Jedders]

I have never seen an invisible plane in IL2..

Class

[pilotpierre]

^Hello,

^{I don't normally post in forums, but sometimes I really despair of our Flight Sim community.}

^{Here is one of VERY FEW flight simulator developers trying their best to provide us with a decent simulator that promised a lot and to be honest with you has delivered in most cases. It is only ALPHA at the moment and we lucky consumers have had the chance to be a part of that development from the start. The problem with Alpha is of course you get to see some of the good stuff early but also you get to see some of the problems and issues as well.}

 

^{Give the chaps in development a break and let them finish the game and then you can be as critical as you like.}

^{I expect we will get the 190 when its ready as promised as well as other stuff we haven't even asked for. As a business, they have to keep the income rolling in and if that means branching off into other areas then so be it. I would rather have that than NO game at all!}

 

^{Don't let us destroy one of the very few options we have for a dedicated WW2 flight simulator that will grow and expand on aircraft, maps and other goodies.}

 

^{Lets be honest here, we need them as much as they need us.}

 

^{Cheers and toodle pip!}

^{No_145 Bunster}

Well said Bunny, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[FlatSpinMan]

I'm with the Bunster.

 

As customers we're allowed to praise or criticize, but let's just be reasonable about it, keep a sense of humour and perspective. It'll make the ride so much more enjoyable.

[Brano]

I would say that this is THE ONLY WW2 flighsim game in development with decent support,progress and potential for future.

Now you are free to call me fanboy,ID(F)C

[rigbyDerekb1948]

The minor issues that I mentioned on 23rd June (ie: control-reversals, odd mission-starts and issues with control input/output curves) were all fixed 100% by deleting and reinstalling the entire game. Apologies to the Developers!