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Planes change in same unit.


WaffenPL
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WaffenPL

Hello is it possible to change planes in the same unit in carrer mode? For example, my unit uses bf 109 f2 and f4, but game forces me to use an f4 version, is there anyway to change this setup? 

 

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JG27_Steini
5 hours ago, WaffenPL said:

Hello is it possible to change planes in the same unit in carrer mode? For example, my unit uses bf 109 f2 and f4, but game forces me to use an f4 version, is there anyway to change this setup? 

 

 

So rude of your unit! Why do yo prever the F2?

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe

Why on Earth would take the F2 over the F4? Anyway thats not the point here. Indeed, unless you are commander, you'll be stuck with random assigned planes. I have a russian Kuban career going. We have Yak 7's, 9's and 1b's. You should see the the default flight configurations before I reassign planes...for instance 6x to escort bombers. As the leader I get a 7, second has a Yak 1b, 3, 4 and 5 have Yak 9's and last guy has a 1b. With a few of each models left in the unused pool.  Makes no sense at all. 

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ShamrockOneFive
11 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Why on Earth would take the F2 over the F4? Anyway thats not the point here. Indeed, unless you are commander, you'll be stuck with random assigned planes. I have a russian Kuban career going. We have Yak 7's, 9's and 1b's. You should see the the default flight configurations before I reassign planes...for instance 6x to escort bombers. As the leader I get a 7, second has a Yak 1b, 3, 4 and 5 have Yak 9's and last guy has a 1b. With a few of each models left in the unused pool.  Makes no sense at all. 

 

At various points, that was somewhat typical of a Russian fighter squadron throwing whatever serviceable machines were available into the next sortie.

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PatrickAWlson
47 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Why on Earth would take the F2 over the F4? Anyway thats not the point here. Indeed, unless you are commander, you'll be stuck with random assigned planes. I have a russian Kuban career going. We have Yak 7's, 9's and 1b's. You should see the the default flight configurations before I reassign planes...for instance 6x to escort bombers. As the leader I get a 7, second has a Yak 1b, 3, 4 and 5 have Yak 9's and last guy has a 1b. With a few of each models left in the unused pool.  Makes no sense at all. 

 

A concept that I use I euphemistically refer to as "goodness" ... it's a number from 1 to 100.  I rate plane types by "goodness".   Then I use "goodness" for several things.  Replacement preferences, providing the best planes to the highest ranks, etc.  That hopefully makes the plane assignments in mixed units make some sense.  

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe
1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

At various points, that was somewhat typical of a Russian fighter squadron throwing whatever serviceable machines were available into the next sortie.

 

Yes indeed. Then you should sometimes engage enemy AI squadrons with such random configurations which is not the case. Also, I had a Rhineland campaign in sept/oct 1944 when the G6 late became available. We had these, G14's and K4's. It was common occurence that I was given a default G6 late as the flight leader and my wingmen had G14s and K4s in a random pattern with maybe another G6 late in the middle. Again, when flying USAAF or RAF, I never encounter such 'melting pot' AI squads.

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migmadmarine
Posted (edited)

Yea, it is a shame that AI flights have to be a single type, would be cool to encounter mixed flights.

Edited by migmadmarine
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ACG_Burdokva
4 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Why on Earth would take the F2 over the F4? Anyway thats not the point here. Indeed, unless you are commander, you'll be stuck with random assigned planes. I have a russian Kuban career going. We have Yak 7's, 9's and 1b's. You should see the the default flight configurations before I reassign planes...for instance 6x to escort bombers. As the leader I get a 7, second has a Yak 1b, 3, 4 and 5 have Yak 9's and last guy has a 1b. With a few of each models left in the unused pool.  Makes no sense at all. 

 

To the contrary, it makes perfect sense. First, because those were the necessities of wartime production in the USSR. As huge as the VVS were, there was actually a constant insufficiency of planes, most IAPs flew understrength compared to the TOE.

 

Second, moat important, is because the Yaks are a single line of aircraft. I cannot emphasize this enough and having spent years researching the air war on the Eastern Front and the Yak line, I am amazed how people confuse them. Soviet nomenclature whereby an aircraft would be called -1 and the subsequent -3, for example, does not mean that they are different aircraft. Often, it means either a sufficiently different subtype or an upgrade. Case in point, the MiG-1 and MiG-3. Or MiG-15 and MiG-17 in the '50s. That practice remains today, the various Su-27 derivates (-33, -30, -34, -35) are all part of the same line; in the West, they would have more likely been labeled as various letters to denote subtypes, like the F-15C and F-15E.

 

One needs only to take a good look at the Spitfire line and it clearly has far more variation in amount of engines, wing designs, propellers, tail units, etc. yet they are all named Spitfire.

 

The Yak-1/7/9/3 are essentially subtypes of the same line that diverged in 1940 when the I-26 prototype was adapted for an advanced trainer (what became the Yak-7U and the follow up line) while the 'main' line was the Yak-1 frontline fighter. The -7 looks just about different because the water radiator was moved back to account for the changed center of gravity due to the two-seat cockpit, the tail unit had somewhat larger vertical stabilizer and smaller elevons (to make the aircraft more stable and 'docile' in the vertical plane), was made entirely of metal to cope with the stress of rough handling and long service life. And as a (heavier) trainer that was expected to be roughly landed, the -7 had a reinforced undercarriage - but as the wing's wooden spars couldn't cope with the weight increase, they were also made of metal. And to generally make it more resilient to weather and tear, about 2/3 of the external skin was metal instead of cloth.

 

Aside from this, the initial -1 and -7 are basically the same aircraft - they have the same overall geometry, same construction of steel tubing truss frame covered with cloth, and wings of wood (metal spars on the -7) covered with plywood; same M-105 engine; same armament; same subsystems and equipment. All later differences resulted as much as from Yakovlev's design bureau as due to the factories where they were produced, and after some time there was a concerted effort to unify the production line. So, a Spring 1944 late series Yak-7b is essentially the exact same Spri g 1944 late series Yak-9D aircraft, only with a second UBS machine gun. Crazy, ain't it?

 

So, when you see a Yak-x, treat it it the same line of aircraft of different subtypes. And yes, they were historically used mixed together.

 

The situation with the 109 is the same, only reversed. By mid-1944 German production lines had diverged with dozens of small differences between even the same subtype from a given factory (G-10s from Erla, WNF and Regensburg were all different), and different subtypes were mixed on a purely 'what's available at the moment' ad-hoc basis in Luftwaffe JGs. A typical JG composition in late 1944 would contain a mixed TOE of Bf-109Gs of various marks (-6, -14, -10), maybe some of the AS subtype, and a few K-s. Again, entirely historical.

 

You're also incorrect that this was not done in the Western Allied air forces purely because you're thinking of a different nomenclature.

 

Take the 352nd FG. They fly on the P-51 Mustang. Pretty uniform, right, not the hodge-podge stuff the Germans and especially Soviets did?

Well now, in truth those would be a mix of say, several B-5s, a B-7, several C-10s, a D-5, mostly D-15s, a few D-25s, a D-30, and a couple K-10. Are these different models or subtypes ona first glance? I'd guess it entirely depends on the nomenclature you are used with.

 

If anything, I absolutely applaud the devs on how they have handled this in the Campaign mode!

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, ACG_Burdokva said:

 

If anything, I absolutely applaud the devs on how they have handled this in the Campaign mode!

 

I applause your effort here in writting all of this. Unfortunately maybe a bit in vain. My point is not that it makes no sense that we have different type of planes in the same flight, that first post of mine wasnt well written. I developped this in my second post in this very thread.

 

My point is mainly that its only the case for the player's flight. 

 

AI flights are always of the same type. You dont see planes of different models in the same AI flight. You see 6x YAK 7s. You see 8x G14's. You see 4x Yak 9s. 

 

So its cool to deal with what the VVS dealt with in terms of attrition and availability. It is totally realistic. But, for something called a dynamic campaign, I would expect, in 2021, that this dynamism is not only available for the player's flight.

 

I hope I have been more clear now.

 

What I meant also in my first post about making no sense is NOT the fact that the flight is made of diff planes. Its the way planes are assigned to each pilots. Seems random a bit. Like the leader is given a yak 1b for a scramble mission but then he is given a Yak 7 for an escort....I dont know, seems that each plane is randomly assigned.

 

 

 

Edited by I./JG52_Woutwocampe
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migmadmarine

Yea, the system represents something accurate, but will hopefully one day receive improvements to be more logically and broadly applied. The case that has always seemed most absent to me is the fact that AI Il-2 mod 42s never have gunners mixed in, and that the flights will be all Mod 42s or Mod 43s in Kuban once the 43 arrives. 

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LukeFF
2 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Yea, the system represents something accurate, but will hopefully one day receive improvements to be more logically and broadly applied. The case that has always seemed most absent to me is the fact that AI Il-2 mod 42s never have gunners mixed in, and that the flights will be all Mod 42s or Mod 43s in Kuban once the 43 arrives. 

 

Yes, it's also something I'd like to see improved.

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe

Am I correct in saying also that the AI flights are always of the same level? Like all veterans? 

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sevenless
On 6/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Makes no sense at all. 

 

What is this defitism about, tovarish? Be happy that what you get assigned to at least has wings. Other comrades have to share one rifle between three men with one man carrying the single ammo strip with 2 rounds. 🙃

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe
46 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

What is this defitism about, tovarish? Be happy that what you get assigned to at least has wings. Other comrades have to share one rifle between three men with one man carrying the single ammo strip with 2 rounds. 🙃

 

Pfft, I have 700 kills and I can restart, I'm above all of this!

 

 

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LukeFF
7 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Am I correct in saying also that the AI flights are always of the same level? Like all veterans? 

 

Yes

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I agree that it's neat to have mixed planes and to get stuck in whatever. Though, I'm more than happy to snap up collector planes from my AI squadmates. :)

 

-Ryan

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