Discussion of C-47 Pre-Order and Li-2, Snipe and SS.D.DIV Plans.

[US103_Baer]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:46 PM, ZachariasX said:

You should be excited. This is not just about fixing things you don‘t like. This is about revenue streams that allow Jason having devs dedicated to WW1 aviation and that can gain as well as retain expertise on that matter.

 

We had once „a patch“ that catered the wishes of some who thought the game must be patched or else. Then after it got patched, it was just another group that climbed the barricades. That is a zero sum game.

 

Selling enough WW1 products will enable the devs making deeper adjustments to what works with WW2 crates when ported to the biplanes. It is obvious that with the conclusion of RoF development a lot of knowledge left the company. All you can do is help bringing that knowledge back. Jason needs money for that. In contrast to most things IT, they actually have to earn this by sales. There is no better proof to Jasons commitment to the old kites by selling more of them. Regarding quality and the „pls fix“ list, that can only come once he has the right team.

 

Some might say that this would take forever and I am suffering now, so pls fix. On the other hand, we have this franchise for two decades now and I can hardly recall a time when the pace of bringing content to WW1 scenarios was faster than it is right now. We have two(!) 10 plane sets in the pipeline and 2 new planes in addition to that. Never did in RoF time content appear faster.

 

It may well be that the current DM for the FC kites could need some further love (I think so too) and it is very obvious that it shows most clearly in MP. Then again, I bet a century ago pilots hated the DM of their aircraft as well.

 

Hey ZachariasX.

I've respected your contributions in forum over the years and, likewise, your view posted here. Six months ago I'd have agreed, in fact i did. So far buying 5 modules across two accounts despite being only interested in WW1. Many others with the same affliction have bought even more.

 

However this isn't simply a case of 'fixing things I don't like', we're beyond that now. 

In over 12 months since 4.005 released, whole squads have essentially dropped out because of the DM - JG1, 1PL, No.20 Sq and most of 3PG. That's some very hardcore WW1 simmers. The former have even reverted to using RoF for their online events.

At some point you have to accept that a model is not serving the product and i'd suggest, the current DM is not serving FC.

 

Regarding the new content, we're essentially being asked to buy more new stuff that, without advice to the contrary, will operate with the same DM as we have now.

Perhaps if a statement regarding the DM had been included in the new content announcement it could have created the positive and galvanizing affect desired. Well, depending on the nature of the statement of course

 

Btw the RoF update you refer to was a very different situation.

The DM in FC was very well regarded by users prior to 4.005/6 and there was not a single complaint about it nor request for change until after 4.005/6 released. Although reverting to the old DM mechanics isn't possible, bringing the damage effectiveness of the new mechanism in-line with that of pre-4.005 versions should thus present no problem to users.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by US28_Baer

[LR.flyingfisch]

On 5/26/2021 at 1:47 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

 

Polish Aviation Museum has a fuselage of experimental plane developed from last surviving SS D.IV in 1920s, the Albatros H.1. Based on description, it differed from SS D.IV by having different wings (missing anyway), prop, rudder and elevator. It even has the Sh-3a engine still onboard (?).

The last SS D.IV was given to Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt, which ordered the high altitude version from Albatros. DVL was not bombed in WW2, so if they did any research to develop it into experimental plane, it might have survived?

 

https://www.muzeumlotnictwa.pl/zbiory_sz.php?ido=10&w=a

 

Interactive cockipt cam:

https://www.muzeumlotnictwa.pl/pano_zwiedzanie/eksponaty/6/albatros_h1.php?w=a

This plane needs Red Bull.

[ilmavoimat]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:25 AM, JG27_Steini said:

 

No corsair in western europe.

The Fleet Air Arm operated Corsairs in teh Western Theatre notably Operation Tungsten in April, July, and August 1944 on the Tirpitz in Norwegian waters, for which Corsairs from HMS Victorious and HMS Formidable provided fighter cover.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I hate to say it, but the Corsair would have been nothing but fodder for Luftwaffe fighters.  The Corsair was great against the much slower A6M, but against faster, land based, modern German aircraft, well, not so much.

[Guest deleted@83466]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hate to say it, but the Corsair would have been nothing but fodder for Luftwaffe fighters.  The Corsair was great against the much slower A6M, but against faster, land based, modern German aircraft, well, not so much.

I think it would have been a good match for the 190 in all variants except maybe the Dora 9.  Maybe even that…there must be a reason it was produced until the 50s, right?

[=621=Samikatz]

Sea-going aircraft of the 40s are always going to be disadvantaged versus land based ones due to the extra weight of the hook, protective equipment, and generally being built tough enough to crash into a boat and fly again the next day. See how the F2A was a bit of an overweight dog, but the stripped down version the Finns got with no naval equipment had excellent handling

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, ilmavoimat said:

The Fleet Air Arm operated Corsairs in teh Western Theatre notably Operation Tungsten in April, July, and August 1944 on the Tirpitz in Norwegian waters, for which Corsairs from HMS Victorious and HMS Formidable provided fighter cover.

 

Sure, but that's not what the Corsair is remembered for, of course.

[Cybermat47]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hate to say it, but the Corsair would have been nothing but fodder for Luftwaffe fighters.  The Corsair was great against the much slower A6M, but against faster, land based, modern German aircraft, well, not so much.

Wasn’t the Corsair the fastest piston-engined fighter when it was introduced?

 

I also recall hearing about Corsairs shooting down Mustangs in the Football War. Given the Mustang’s great record against the Luftwaffe, I can’t imagine the Corsair being Focke fodder.

[DBFlyguy]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hate to say it, but the Corsair would have been nothing but fodder for Luftwaffe fighters.  The Corsair was great against the much slower A6M, but against faster, land based, modern German aircraft, well, not so much.

The Hellcat was also slower but came out on top in the few engagements they had with the Luftwaffe including a few 109s and 190s.  I doubt the Corsair wouldn't have been able to hold its own as well. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by DBFlyguy

[BlitzPig_EL]

2 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

…there must be a reason it was produced until the 50s, right?

 

That's because the Corsair excelled in the ground attack role, something that jets had not come to grips with yet.

[Guest deleted@83466]

4 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

That's because the Corsair excelled in the ground attack role, something that jets had not come to grips with yet.

that’s a fair point, and I’ll give you that.  I still think the Corsair would have held its own against contemporary Luftwaffe fighters.

[oc2209]

6 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hate to say it, but the Corsair would have been nothing but fodder for Luftwaffe fighters.  The Corsair was great against the much slower A6M, but against faster, land based, modern German aircraft, well, not so much.

 

Yeah, as others have mentioned, I also doubt the Corsair would be a sitting duck. I don't think any American plane introduced after '42 could be considered a dud. Mainly because any plane that's built tough, with a radial engine, and a max speed near or above 400 MPH, can't be a dud. Especially in halfway competent hands.

 

I don't like American fighter design as a gamer/simmer; but as an armchair historian/engineer, pretty much anything the US made after around 1942 (in significant numbers, I won't mention the aborted projects) is top-tier design quality in my book. Meaning, in practical terms, that American planes don't have a lot of major weaknesses. Couple that with better-than-average American pilot training, and you have even fewer weaknesses for an enemy to exploit.

[US103_Baer]

Greg did a video on the topic recently. In case you missed it.

 

 

 

[Ribbon]

I'd rather save Corsair for PTO where it is star of the show!

For European theatre right now B-25 would add new dimension and to the Il2GB overall so i'd rather resources go there until PTO being next on the table.

[Nil]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:34 PM, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, But is anyone else a little disappointed that the LI-2 is gonna be sold separately? Sure they're technically different planes but it seems to me like it'd be better suited to have the LI-2 changes be a mod for the C-47.  The transport community is pretty small, and for most of us these are just gonna be things that we fool around with once in a blue moon, not something a lot of people would be willing to buy twice. At that point I'd rather just put a USSR skin on the C-47 and proxy it.

Do not worry, look the C47a we have now has a soviet skin as it is one of the lend lease aircraft. So We can be sure it will be available on MP server if the Li2 is on eastern front. No need to buy the Li2 to support russian side on Mp servers.

[Beebop]

2 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

For European theatre right now B-25 would add new dimension and to the Il2GB overall so i'd rather resources go there

?

[Flashy]

Wow! this is the best news since.. well since they stopped making planes for RoF! I have been away from Il2 for over a year now (my install doesnt even work anymore - just crashes when trying to start up ?) but this might get me to come back for a bit. Have been waiting for a flyable C-47 for ages now, so I'm glad that day will soon be upon us! Also really glad to see some new WW1 crates finally - this should make FC2 more appealing for many ROF veterans. I'm a little disappointed they decided to go with 2 late war planes that didn't really contribute anything to the war effort and only saw service for a short time, rather than some of the desperately needed earlier war planes like the Be2 and a C-series German two seater for example, but I suppose there are lots of people that have been looking forward to these two fighters more than 2 seaters so it makes sense from a business point of view I guess. Still, its nice to finally get some more planes for WW1 and hopefully this will continue in the future and we can get some more.. "useful" planes later.

[dresamAsam71]

Hello.

 I wonder if it would be possible to recover the files containing the DM from the version prior to 4.05-.  It seems to be a better fit for WWI aircraft.  and activate them only on WWI aircraft through a MODS manager.

 Greetings.

[Blitzen]

Before starting a new career in BoB ,I’d like to know if the new vehicles,weapons , and fortifications are currently or will be included on the now older Bodenplatte map.

 Slightly OT : are the “city bridges “ in Bodenplatte missions,& new fortificationsvunerable to rocket & bomb attacks? It may be that I am just a rotten “bomber” but I have had little luck getting any sort of bridge to “all fall down”.Ditto Tiffy rocket attacks on the new “Normandy “ fortifications.

[Gambit21]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:01 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

That's because the Corsair excelled in the ground attack role, something that jets had not come to grips with yet.

 

...and could drop those flaps and get in those valleys (sometimes under cables strung across) to deliver that ordnance. 

 

With regard to the update - Snipe!

Very cool - knew nothing about it until looking it up after  this announcement.

 

[Guest deleted@171995]

корсар же очень скоростной самолёт. в пристёжке данные на Ф4У-4. было бы интересно увидеть данный истребитель в проекте. конкуренты же его делают. 
лично мне очень интересна тема тихоокеанского театра военных действий (1943-45 гг.).

 

The corsair is a very high-speed plane. in the fastener data on F4U-4. it would be interesting to see this fighter in the project. competitors do it.
I am personally very interested in the theme of the Pacific theater of military operations (1943-45).

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gimpel

[Caudron431]

It's a pleasure pre ordering the legendary Dakota! Thanks so much again for the hard work 1CGS team

(Waiting patiently to preorder the Li2 too)

[Fortis_Leader]

Does anyone know if there's any thought put to including towable gliders for the C-47?

[LukeFF]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:38 AM, Old_S_Man said:

All C-47s had a glider trailer, so their tails was cut off.

 

Are you sure about that? I'm seeing a fair number of photos online of C-47As that don't have the tail section cut off, such as this one: https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/c-47/41-38601/10-42/c47-left-tail.html and this one: https://stuartairshow.com/blog/2019/9/2/history-of-the-c47-whiskey-7 

 

 

 

Otherwise, if you're certain, I'd make a report in the Technical Issues section - there's a topic there for issues with the game's 3D models.

Edited June 9, 2021 by LukeFF

[Ribbon]

There is one C-47 at my workplace so i might go and check that tail section, was rotting for decades in the forrest by the hangar i work in and later moved in exhibition purpose with some dirty amateurish restoration which is still in progress.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Yugoslavia-Air-Force/Douglas-C-47B-Skytrain-DC-3/2498324

https://otpisani.niceboard.com/t1308-douglas-c-47-spaena-u-93zb-zemunik

It's history summary: manufactured in Oklahoma city in 1944 with modifications for PTO, never used by US army, L&L to the RAF 357.sqdn which used it in India and Burma (January 1945-november 1945) and in 1953 given to ex Yugoslavia.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Always good to have more flyables. Keep up the great work.

[Mad_Mikhael]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:22 PM, LLv34_Untamo said:

S!

 

Awesome! Have been waiting for C-47 / Li-2 ... well since Ju-52 ... Going to buy after I submit this message.

As a server operator, a small (but huge to us) quality of life improvement request to @Jason_Williams
Please make the jumping paratroopers give out log entries that can be tracked back to the plane that dropped them. Currently the paratrooper's AType:18 log line PARENTID points to nothing. Another, when I'm at it: Give us a log line when the paratrooper lands (with status dead/alive, and coordinates). Currently we have to use triggers to detect the landings, and with those we cannot credit the pilot that made the drop.

Bump. We need this!

[Avimimus]

On 6/2/2021 at 10:20 AM, Blitzen said:

Before starting a new career in BoB ,I’d like to know if the new vehicles,weapons , and fortifications are currently or will be included on the now older Bodenplatte map.

 Slightly OT : are the “city bridges “ in Bodenplatte missions,& new fortificationsvunerable to rocket & bomb attacks? It may be that I am just a rotten “bomber” but I have had little luck getting any sort of bridge to “all fall down”.Ditto Tiffy rocket attacks on the new “Normandy “ fortifications.

 

In real life it took direct hits with large bombs to critical parts of bridges to reliably bring them down. Holes could be poked in the surface, but those were easily patched... and bridges are designed to absorb very large amounts of force with quite a bit of redundant strength.

[kestrel79]

Purchased over the weekend can't wait! Now give us some big bombers too!

[BMA_FlyingShark]

4 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Now give us some big bombers too!

I would already be glad if ever we get some medium Allied bombers one day.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[Beebop]

2 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Now give us some big bombers too!

 "Some people say that I'm a dreamer...." -J. Lennon

"To wish, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub," -Hamlet, (apologies to W. Shakespeare)

[Motherbrain]

Will the C-47s external model be getting any changes or updates when it becomes flyable?

 

(Its already pretty nice. Aside from a bug with the tail wheel spinning in the wrong direction).

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Motherbrain

[Beebop]

4 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

Aside from a bug with the tail wheel spinning in the wrong direction

Bug?  It's a feature! 

Apparently you weren't aware of a little known modification to the C-47 to allow it to use smaller airfields by having the tailwheel rotate backwards and act as a brake.

?

[RedKestrel]

Crew Chief: "Man, I was watching you land just now and I could swear the tail wheel was moving backwards! Funny how the eyes play tricks on ya!"
The Time Wizard, in deep cover as a C-47 pilot:
 

[Avimimus]

17 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

Will the C-47s external model be getting any changes or updates when it becomes flyable?

 

(Its already pretty nice. Aside from a bug with the tail wheel spinning in the wrong direction).

 

Were you around in the RoF days when they first introduced weapon mods and the viewer wasn't yet updated... so it'd simply show all of the weapon mods at once? That made for some pretty fantastic buggy images.

[Blitzen]

I wonder if the C-47 will be fully crewed?Not just with a Co-pilot but with a flight engineer and or navigator ? The crew would look great for total immersion with VR headset.My other question pertains to their service dress /appearance: I hope they won’t be issues with leather helmets & goggles but the more believable officer 25 mission crunch caps and/or c__t caps & NCO “baseball caps seen in image below. Just sayin’…

Edited June 21, 2021 by Blitzen

[Blitzen]

If the C-47 crew appearance changes were enacted they might  be applicable to the upcoming flyable (?) B-25 as well?

[Beebop]

3 hours ago, Blitzen said:

the upcoming flyable (?) B-25

IIRC Jason said they didn't have anyone to work on it at the moment.  ?

[Blitzen]

20 hours ago, Beebop said:

IIRC Jason said they didn't have anyone to work on it at the moment.  ?

 

[Beebop]

True.