Discussion of C-47 Pre-Order and Li-2, Snipe and SS.D.DIV Plans.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

20 minutes ago, I./JG1_Baron said:

When I think about it like that, based on the above sentence about SSD. IV - it would be possible to make Japanese aircraft for the PTO in a similar way?

It is although performence and flight characteristics are generally much more debated for those than the old WW1 aircraft. Everyone has an opinion of his own about how WW2 fighters should behave. Without data to back it up the devs might find themself pulled into a never ending conflict about what things are "wrong" about their model.

 

On the other hand ressearch and data on many things like the technical details on instrumentation, aircraft systems (fuel, power, hydraulic, mechanical) and armament can hardly be replaced. Without you're forced to lower the quality standards for japanese aircraft which doesn't seem appropiate for mass appeal, too.

 

Hopefully there will be a working solution for this once all the other conditions (time, budget, tech) are met so that development can start as soon as possible.

 

On topic, the C-47 will be a great addition to the planeset and hopefully help to manifest the role of transport aircraft in MP (with maybe some new mission types in future?).

Edited May 28, 2021 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[AndytotheD]

35 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Anyone else getting excited about flying the C-47 and recreating D-Day and Market Garden?

 

I also enjoyed flying resupply missions online more than I thought, can't wait for more of those with different aircraft for different countries. So cool!

I started flying resupply on Finnish VP and had almost as much fun making dicey approaches into an airfield near the FEBA as I do flying a fighter. I can't wait to do so in the Dakota.

[SYN_Vander]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_5tuka said:

It is although performence and flight characteristics are generally much more debated for those than the old WW1 aircraft.

 

?LOL I wish it were true! Missing good reference data makes the WW1 FMs more debatable than for WW2!

[Charlo-VR]

1 hour ago, AndytotheD said:

I started flying resupply on Finnish VP and had almost as much fun making dicey approaches into an airfield near the FEBA as I do flying a fighter. I can't wait to do so in the Dakota.

Yep! Once C-47 is released, on Finnish no more holding back on firing on a Ju-52 that might be on a Russian supply run, and no more posting in the friendly chat to NOT shoot down the Ju-52 resupplying a Russian airfield ?

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Well its my opinion, so no its not wrong even if its unpopular. its just a differing opinion, one which I wanted to voice. No need to be an ass about it. 

 

Over a thousand design changes from the original DC-3 to the Li-2, so they aren't quite the same thing.  

[BMA_FlyingShark]

13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Over a thousand design changes from the original DC-3 to the Li-2, so they aren't quite the same thing.

Before I read the article you posted, I didn't even know there where so many differences but even if there where just a couple of tens, it would still be worth the price.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

49 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Over a thousand design changes from the original DC-3 to the Li-2, so they aren't quite the same thing.  

True... but IIRC most of those more than a thousand "changes" are related to converting imperial units to similar metric values

[Voidhunger]

watching again those Pfalz DVIII videos, I cant wait for the Siemens.?

 

 

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

C47 and li2 are most welcome. Now we just need a stork (or hs123) and grasshopper to accompany the po2 

[R7-S276]

Obviously this is great news that we have been looking forward to and I sincerely hope that one day you will give us the same announcement for the B-25...

But please, can you for the C-47A, the Li-2, later the Ju-52 and if it becomes possible, the B-25, offer us all the positions of these flyable planes so that in multicrew we can occupy the places of co-pilot and radio / navigator and not only pilot and / or gunner. These and maybe, one day, a fully clickable cockpit will make Il-2 the reference.

[Soilworker]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, Stickshaker said:

In the Luftwaffenmuseum at airfield Berlin-Gatow (can be reached by bus from Berlin Central Station) they have a magnificent SSW D.III or D.IV replica. 

 

According to Wikipedia it's a D.III, I was looking at it this morning. 

 

 

59 minutes ago, R7-S276 said:

 These and maybe, one day, a fully clickable cockpit will make Il-2 the reference.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but clickable cockpits will almost certainly not happen in this sim, it's been discussed at length many times. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

Eventual British paratrooper guy definitely needs a ‘stache, don’t you think, Clarice?

[Cybermat47]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

Eventual British paratrooper guy definitely needs a ‘stache, don’t you think, Clarice?

Or an umbrella.

 

 

[[CPT]milopugdog]

How do you guys always manage to announce this stuff around payday?

 

[jollyjack]

13 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

watching again those Pfalz DVIII videos, I cant wait for the Siemens.?

 

 

 

It looks like a Siemens washing machine with wings ...  probably dries your laundry as well with them built ib cloth-lines.

Edited May 29, 2021 by jollyjack

[BlitzPig_EL]

I am curious about that engine.  I keep hear the term "contra rotating" bandied about, but in the video the engine and propeller, when being turned over by hand both appear to be directly connected.  I see no evidence of "contra-rotation" there.

Edited May 29, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[J2_Bidu]

Forgive me if this is old news:

«The only airworthy Siemens Schukert D.IV in the world.»

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2869041423108574&id=150073775005366

Edited May 29, 2021 by J2_Bidu

[kendo]

Doesn't look very "airworthy" ?

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I am curious about that engine.  I keep hear the term "contra rotating" bandied about, but in the video the engine and propeller, when being turned over by hand both appear to be directly connected.  I see no evidence of "contra-rotation" there.

 

From Wikipedia:

Quote

It shared with its predecessor the unusual design feature of having its internal workings (crankshaft, connecting-rods, etc.) rotating in a clockwise direction as seen from "nose-on", within the engine, and the crankcase and propeller (still fastened to the crankcase, as is usual for rotary engines) rotating in the "accepted" anti-clockwise direction. Power was rated at 120 kW (160 hp).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens-Halske_Sh.III

 

The contra-rotation is there - it just isn't visible from outside.

[R7-S276]

anyway for me the most important wishes are the B-25 flyable and copilot seat playable for all planes with crews (C-47, Li-2, Ju-52....) 

[J2_Bidu]

1 hour ago, kendo said:

Doesn't look very "airworthy" ?

 

Better now?

 

«A recent photo of our Siemens Schuckert ZK-SSW up and getting ready for our forthcoming show NZ Warbirds on Parade - Sunday 06th June 2021.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

«NZ Warbirds Siemens Schuckert D.IV - flown by Frank Parker.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

Unfortunately, «Gnome 9N 160 hp Monosoupape rotary engine.»

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by J2_Bidu

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I am curious about that engine.  I keep hear the term "contra rotating" bandied about, but in the video the engine and propeller, when being turned over by hand both appear to be directly connected.  I see no evidence of "contra-rotation" there.

The propleller is directly attached to the engine block and turn in the same direction. It is the crankshaft inside that turns opposite with the same speed giving an effective gearing of 2:1.

 

 

Propeller turns along with the engine block, it is the same structure.

Inside, the crankshaft goes oposite and...

..turns the engine block via a gearing in the back.

 

In essence you get twice the rpm at given propeller turns. It does 2000 rpm when the engine block and the propeller do 1000 rpm. But you get the gyro of an ordinary 1000 rpm rotary. Thus, by no means do engine and propeller cancel out each others gyro. This is a forum legend. The high rpm is what makes the engine so poweful.

 

This engine is like the Napier Sabre, it is a racer engine that is made to crank up rpm instead of just upping displacement. In case of the Sh3, twice the rpm gives you twice the power over "non geared" rotaries. It could do 240 hp, but somewhere above 160 it starts to fall apart, hence you have 160 hp up to 4000 m. This engine is great for implementing The Timer™. It actually has a locking pin that you can insert that limits rpm such that the engine such that it does 200 hp at sea level. 200 hp being permissible take off power. (Yeah! That discussion again!) With that one in, you can take off throttle firewalled and climb away. You climb fast enough for the engine is not overstressed due to less air density and progressively lower power output. Takeoff power just means you *can* firewall the throttle andd fly like that all day long (until the tank is empty), as long as you are climbing away do a reasonable operating altitude.

 

AFAIK Michael Carlson has the pin in and thus the engine limited to 200 hp in his Pfalz. He probably wouldn't want to go past 4000 m without oxygen.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by ZachariasX

[Noisemaker]

31 minutes ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

Better now?

 

«A recent photo of our Siemens Schuckert ZK-SSW up and getting ready for our forthcoming show NZ Warbirds on Parade - Sunday 06th June 2021.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

«NZ Warbirds Siemens Schuckert D.IV - flown by Frank Parker.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

Unfortunately, «Gnome 9N 160 hp Monosoupape rotary engine.»

 

 

 

So, definitely not an interceptor then... 

[Cybermat47]

20 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

So, definitely not an interceptor then... 

 

You’d be surprised. I’ve heard that the similar Siemens-Schuckert D.III was used as an interceptor due to its superior climb rate and service ceiling compared to other German fighters.

[J2_Bidu]

«I was surprised to learn she has brakes! Apparently makes ground handling a lot easier.»

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73254

 

It has brakes?! That would be a novelty for FC.

[Noisemaker]

25 minutes ago, Cybermat47 said:

 

You’d be surprised. I’ve heard that the similar Siemens-Schuckert D.III was used as an interceptor due to its superior climb rate and service ceiling compared to other German fighters.

Sure, but taking more than half an hour to start kind of rules out interception duty...

[Cybermat47]

1 minute ago, Noisemaker said:

Sure, but taking more than half an hour to start kind of rules out interception duty...

 

It seems that the only thing flying higher than the D.III was the joke going over my head, then  

[Gambit21]

On 5/28/2021 at 7:40 AM, SYN_Vander said:

 

?LOL I wish it were true! Missing good reference data makes the WW1 FMs more debatable than for WW2!

 

Yep

I’ve thought of this on more than one occasion WW1/PTO for obvious reasons. 

 

Still, I’m happy about 1C pushing on with WW1 content. I may sink my teeth into WW1 again eventually.

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

As far as the WW1 kites go, I have more issues with the damage modeling than with the FMs, though I do find them problematic.  These are all mostly sticks and canvas aircraft, with an engine up front and a very squishy meat servo in an open, unarmored cockpit, yet rifle caliber projectiles have difficulty doing damage to the also unarmored engine/fuel system, and of course the pilot.  Of course I suppose I should fall back on something Oleg Maddox said many years ago, that if he modeled pilot damage accurately, no one would play the sim.

[Ribbon]

Let the leaflet propaganda war begin!

???

 

 

?

Edited May 29, 2021 by =VARP=Ribbon
"the"

[XQ_Lothar29]

The way I see it, the more planes are added for all nations, the better for the simulator, in my case, I will always buy all the collector planes.

But the more planes there are in the simulator, the more alive it will be, and the more options for more battles it will have.

I am sure that like everything that the 1CGS Team and 777Studios and its partners do, it will have a great quality.

 

PS: what I do think is necessary is the AI build of the heavy bombers, B-24 or B-17.
The bombardment at high altitude, so that you change the way you fly at once, always at low or medium heights. This way, new combat tactics will begin to be used and the P47 - P38 will make more sense as an escort.

[Redwo1f]

1 hour ago, XQ_Lothar29 said:

 

 

PS: what I do think is necessary is the AI build of the heavy bombers, B-24 or B-17.
 

 

Just an aside, and a PPS - you might want to look carefully in the CLOD forums (you might find something interesting) ?

....................

 

I think I may be interested in having the gunner on top, so it may be the Li-2 for me...we'll see.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Redwo1f

[Gambit21]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:11 AM, kestrel79 said:

Anyone else getting excited about flying the C-47 and recreating D-Day and Market Garden?

 

 

No - not possible with this engine. 

The sheer amount of aircraft, units, tracers etc etc etc...it's just not even 20 percent doable.

That said I think the C-47 is an awesome addition to the sim, and will make for some great missions D-Day aside.

 

[US103_Baer]

As a hardcore FC multiplayer user and WW1 aviation tragic, I should be excited about brand new WW1 content and want to pre-order.

But I'm not.

 

The current DM has ripped the heart out of the game.  Core user drop-off is rampant, with whole Squadrons giving it away citing the DM. A niche game can't afford this. 

 

I understand the business reasons and applaud the idea of totally new content, but please...

 

Fix the DM first.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by US28_Baer

[ZachariasX]

You should be excited. This is not just about fixing things you don‘t like. This is about revenue streams that allow Jason having devs dedicated to WW1 aviation and that can gain as well as retain expertise on that matter.

 

We had once „a patch“ that catered the wishes of some who thought the game must be patched or else. Then after it got patched, it was just another group that climbed the barricades. That is a zero sum game.

 

Selling enough WW1 products will enable the devs making deeper adjustments to what works with WW2 crates when ported to the biplanes. It is obvious that with the conclusion of RoF development a lot of knowledge left the company. All you can do is help bringing that knowledge back. Jason needs money for that. In contrast to most things IT, they actually have to earn this by sales. There is no better proof to Jasons commitment to the old kites by selling more of them. Regarding quality and the „pls fix“ list, that can only come once he has the right team.

 

Some might say that this would take forever and I am suffering now, so pls fix. On the other hand, we have this franchise for two decades now and I can hardly recall a time when the pace of bringing content to WW1 scenarios was faster than it is right now. We have two(!) 10 plane sets in the pipeline and 2 new planes in addition to that. Never did in RoF time content appear faster.

 

It may well be that the current DM for the FC kites could need some further love (I think so too) and it is very obvious that it shows most clearly in MP. Then again, I bet a century ago pilots hated the DM of their aircraft as well.

[T_oll]

Spot on, @ZachariasX.

Changes doesn’t just happen, they must be made.

I have faith in the devs. They have proven over and over again, that they are committed. But resources are limited and must be balanced.

It will happen, but perhaps not in the order some would like. That’s all.

[Voidhunger]

16 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

Better now?

 

«A recent photo of our Siemens Schuckert ZK-SSW up and getting ready for our forthcoming show NZ Warbirds on Parade - Sunday 06th June 2021.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

«NZ Warbirds Siemens Schuckert D.IV - flown by Frank Parker.» (NZ Warbirds Association Inc)

 

Unfortunately, «Gnome 9N 160 hp Monosoupape rotary engine.»

 

 

 

 

is it real replica?

 

Ok different engine an prop. but what about the fuselage?

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72006

[Field-Ops]

16 hours ago, R7-S276 said:

anyway for me the most important wishes are the B-25 flyable and copilot seat playable for all planes with crews (C-47, Li-2, Ju-52....) 

To add to that note the loss of the pilot would allow the player to continue flying as copilot. I do hope that is added at some point. 

[JG27_Steini]

3 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

To add to that note the loss of the pilot would allow the player to continue flying as copilot. I do hope that is added at some point. 

 

Dual cockpit sounds great. 

[No.23_Starling]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:46 AM, ZachariasX said:

You should be excited. This is not just about fixing things you don‘t like. This is about revenue streams that allow Jason having devs dedicated to WW1 aviation and that can gain as well as retain expertise on that matter.

 

We had once „a patch“ that catered the wishes of some who thought the game must be patched or else. Then after it got patched, it was just another group that climbed the barricades. That is a zero sum game.

 

Selling enough WW1 products will enable the devs making deeper adjustments to what works with WW2 crates when ported to the biplanes. It is obvious that with the conclusion of RoF development a lot of knowledge left the company. All you can do is help bringing that knowledge back. Jason needs money for that. In contrast to most things IT, they actually have to earn this by sales. There is no better proof to Jasons commitment to the old kites by selling more of them. Regarding quality and the „pls fix“ list, that can only come once he has the right team.

 

Some might say that this would take forever and I am suffering now, so pls fix. On the other hand, we have this franchise for two decades now and I can hardly recall a time when the pace of bringing content to WW1 scenarios was faster than it is right now. We have two(!) 10 plane sets in the pipeline and 2 new planes in addition to that. Never did in RoF time content appear faster.

 

It may well be that the current DM for the FC kites could need some further love (I think so too) and it is very obvious that it shows most clearly in MP. Then again, I bet a century ago pilots hated the DM of their aircraft as well.

Hey man, I don’t think a single DM patch constitutes dedicated ongoing support (the first DM change I thought came from overall sim engine update). Your average $70+ sim will undergo dozen of updates every month. The single large ‘fix’ you refer to made one side’s birds largely tanks, and the other side fragile. This has since led to 3 entente squads quitting the sim; from what I saw they all took Trupo’s advice to try and “enjoy what we have and be grateful” rather than just binning it off, with 2/3 only recently making the decision to take a step back. In fact, some of us racked up record pvp streaks - the current pvp record being held by a spaddict - despite the DM and lack of never-fail ahistorical German chutes.
 

It’s ok to be a consumer spending hundreds of dollars and expect more than one revision. You make out like the devs are volunteers working over the weekend (ironically, that could describe the wonderfully dedicated Team Fusion). Your point about the pace of dev is likely because these are ports of existing models and FMs, not totally new like they were in RoF.

 

On the historical point, I have never read anything from either contemporary or modern sources on the Fokker Dr1 or Dvii to suggest that its wings were THAT much stronger and resistant to damage than anything else on the front, nor that the Dolphin was notorious for coming apart in a dive after little damage due to spar size. A single hole in a Camel wing is now a death sentence, whereas the Dr1 is the Black Knight. On the contrary, I know of several sources mentioning the Dr1 wings failing randomly and killing front line pilots due to inferior glue used in factory for some early models. In fact, the Dv was notorious for fragile wings with MvR and others hating it, but I guess it better get the AU engine as we can’t have a ‘bad’ Central plane.
 

On new content, a new FM for the N28 using the excellent data we now have to hand would basically be a new plane and new content, likewise a revised DM for the Dolphin. They are both pretty unusable in MP otherwise. I’m sure Trupo will now tell me about how he got 3 kills last week flying it in manner X - good for him - but your average Joe or someone wanting an experience closer to the data and evidence will just pass. Hell, someone will probably become a C47 ace before long.

 

A huge amount could be improved by implementing an ‘arcade damage’ check option where all the spars were pushed closer to the middle using the diii as a baseline, and reducing the likelihood of control jams. We have arcade FM options already.

 

Ultimately, if one part of the player base feels ignored for a long period of time they eventually vote with their feet. The FlugPark stats show a 2:3 ratio of entente:central play hours now; back when the sim came out i believe this was closer to 1:1. Central will get their AU engine - their only major complaint that is being addressed first before the DM or N28 FM which is another upset for entente players - and will be left with a diminished set of opponents to use it against.

 

Complaints aside, I’ve put hundreds of hours into FC and had a blast (when my wings weren’t shedding after a sneeze) and am super grateful to have the sim, but now I’m going to invest my time largely elsewhere.

Edited May 31, 2021 by US93_Rummell