Future of Great Battles

[Jackfraser24]

The Maltese Islands were the site of a nearly two and a half year long aerial siege between the Regia Aeronautica, Luftwaffe and Royal Air Forces. It was a key strategic naval position for the Western Allies in the Mediterranean since it was the only British military and naval base between Gibraltar and Alexandria, Egypt. Because Malta was within close proximity and striking distance for Italy; and France, once a major military power in the Mediterranean along with Great Britain to challenge the growing threat of the Italian Empire, surrendered in June 1940 which left the British Commonwealth forces to stand alone against the Axis; and because the United Kingdom was under the immediate threat of a German invasion therefore had to divert most of its forces to the home front, Malta was exposed and highly threatened by a possible Axis invasion. 

 

A hypothetical Battle of Malta instalment would:

• Include a variety of German, Italian and British aircraft 
• Make the map less expensive to make since Malta is only 316 square kilometers (122 square miles), and the majority of it would be just ocean apart from parts of Sicily and North Africa (etc, Tunisia)
• Pave the way for developers to make a hypothetical Battle of Sicily instalment 
• Include various merchant boats and warships used by the Kriegsmarine, Regia Marina and the Royal Navy ranging from U-boats, submarines and destroyers to cruisers, battleships and even aircraft carriers - the latter can be used as practice by modelers for the Pacific

I know that Cliffs of Dover already have a mod on Malta and it is unsaid whether it has been reserved to them like North Africa or not.

Would anyone agree with Battle of Malta being a Great Battles instalment?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Dakpilot]

It has been mentioned many times before, but is still a good idea

 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[ITAF_Rani]

Look at this post

 

 

At moment we don t know what DLC will be after BON..

All is possible....!!

Mediterrean ( Malta ), could be a possibility, but Med seems to be more in the hands of the CLOD Team fusion teams at moment...will see

Edited May 25, 2021 by ITAF_Rani

[Avimimus]

Maybe as an addon for Desert Wings... maybe an announcement in the next few months...

[Dakpilot]

23 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Maybe as an addon for Desert Wings... maybe an announcement in the next few months...

 

Actually hope not, purely for personal preference, would much prefer it do be done in IL-2 GB, if its done in CloD then little chance of a different version. I simply have no interest in CloD/Desert Wings  or time for the idiosyncrasies of two combat flight sims

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Avimimus]

45 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

Actually hope not, purely for personal preference, would much prefer it do be done in IL-2 GB, if its done in CloD then little chance of a different version. I simply have no interest in CloD/Desert Wings  or time for the idiosyncrasies of two combat flight sims

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Hmm... well, I suspect that a module on the Cliffs/Storm of War engine being successful will increase the chances of a later module on the Great Battles/BoX engine... so it may still be good news to you. Also, we'll probably be lucky to see it in either engine.

[Dakpilot]

I don't think success of Desert Wings make a BoX Tobruk more likely, more the opposite. 

Anyway just my personal preference to see Malta scenario in BoX. 

 

No worries 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Enceladus828]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on which game they would prefer Malta to be in, but I'd argue that Malta and the Med. has not been really explored before in a combat flight sim. We never really got the Med in IL-2 1946 until patch 4.09, when the MTO map, which was a scaled down map that covered Eastern Libya and Egypt, Crete and Southern Greece, was added. We never got a Tunisia, Malta, an Operation Torch, nor an Italy map (that one in 4.08 is fictional). It wasn't until patch 4.13 did we get an authentic Tobruk map, very similar to the map that would be in DW-T. All the other MTO stuff added would be in Mods.

Before DW-T was released, the last time that someone tried to cover the Desert War was back in 1999 with the game, Desert Fighters by Sierra Dynamix, and that didn't even released.

For me, if someone is right now doing Tobruk, Malta, Sicily -- the MTO; and it includes aircraft that have never been in a combat flight sim before, or in a long time like the Wellington, Ju-88C, Dewoitine D.520, Swordfish, G.55, P-40F, Gladiator, P-40C, and F4F, etc., as along as it's a good quality product and not a buggy mess that the original CloD was, then don't see what the issue is as to who's making it.

 

Cheers ?

[spreckair]

@Enceladus  I agree that an MTO expansion would be great, and it is interesting that I don't see much of demand in the numerous posts and surveys.  How about a Battle of Rome, or Battle of Greece?

[Jackfraser24]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:05 PM, spreckair said:

@Enceladus  I agree that an MTO expansion would be great, and it is interesting that I don't see much of demand in the numerous posts and surveys.  How about a Battle of Rome, or Battle of Greece?

I would agree with an IL-2 Battle of Greece and Crete, because this time had a different outcome. It was an Axis victory. However, don’t get me wrong. I would never condone anything that the Nazi’s did. All I’m saying is that it would be a good idea. 
 

Reasons being

• Beautiful country, many islands, ancient historical places and  features like the Acropolis and the Parthenon, (which can be modelled, like Stonehenge in BoN), and lots of marble statues around Athens and other cities.
• There would be a large map, concerning Greece and Crete. The map’s perimeter would roughly be around Albania to the northwest, Southern Macedonia to the North, Southern Bulgaria to the Northeast, and parts of Turkish Thrace, and proper Turku to the East, and Crete to the South. Approximately 522,000 square kilometres. 
• This Greek scenario would span from October 1940 to May 1941. It would include the Italian’s initial failed invasion of Greece (October 28th to November 13th), the Greek counteroffensive (November 14th to January 6th) the Italian Spring Offensive (March 9th to March 16th) the German Invasion of Greece (April 6th to April 30th) and finally the Invasion of Crete (May 20th to June 1st). 
• Early war aircraft would be useful  in Greece and Crete.
• Greece and Crete would be the last time Blitzkrieg use fully paid off, before it gradually became obsolete in Operation Barbarossa. A hypothetical Battle of Greece would show how effective the Blitzkrieg tactic was, when it was still completely successful when players fly missions and do a pilot career mode. Plus, it would demonstrate how much of a struggle it was for allied soldiers and airmen to counteract these German tactics.
• A Greek scenario would give the development team time and opportunity to further improve on their modelling on war ships, submarines/U-boats and merchant ships.
• Lastly, Greece and Crete would be an unofficial chronological prequel to DesertWings. After Greece fell, the Germans became heavily involved in North Africa, aiding the Italians against the British and the Commonwealth.

[Jackfraser24]

Why IL-2 Battle of Romania should be passed for consideration sometime down the track.

• Beautiful country with varying terrain from the hills and mountains of Transylvania to the floodplains and delta of the Danube River would make someone who'd just bought it wanna fly around the map for hours.
• The country is dotted with towns, villages and cities, some of which were built around the time of the Romans. Cities like Bucharest would have many historic buildings like the CEC Palace, and it’s many castles in the Transylvania region.
• Would appeal to the Romanian community, to be able to fly over their own country and say “that’s where I now live.” There would have to be Romanian speaking voice actors to voice the pilots that flew in the Royal Romanian Air Force.
• Although the overall Battle of Romania (05/03/1944 to 29/08/1944) mostly involved Soviets just slowly advancing from the north/northeast to Bucharest in the south of the country, but for a while, the Germans and Romanians held out a strong resistance against the Soviet advancements During this temporary stalemate there would have been lots of missions that pilots of the VVS, Luftwaffe and the RRAF carried out. With all due respects, there would be an abundance of missions that took place in real life that could be played as Pilot Career missions. I am so sorry if I had offended or was being very insensitive for those who died for their country, when they should have been home living a peaceful life. 
• The IAR.80/81 was used in the Defence of Romania against Soviet planes like the IL-2, La-5 and Yak-9. If a Battle of Romania is made, the IAR.80/81 dlc which is yet to come would be involved in trying to defend it’s nation of origin.
• Romania needs to be done by IL-2. No other combat flight simulator has done it like how IL-2 does it’s maps War Thunder has done a very small area of the Carpathian Mountains, but not a good chunk of the actual country. I’m not trying to be discriminative.

[BOO]

How many threads on what the next module will be do we need? 

[DD_Crash]

how many can we have?

[CountZero]

This forum needs:

Next Great Battles Module #4

Next Great Battles Module #5

Next Great Battles Module #6

Next Great Battles Module #7

Next Great Battles Module #8

Next Great Battles Module #9

...

Next Great Battles Module #67

Next Great Battles Module #68

[Alexmarine]

Il-2GB team: Gentlemen, we do not stop till the next release.
Jackfraser: What about Next Great Battles Module #1 discussion?
Il-2GB team: You’ve already had it.
Jackfraser: We’ve had it, yes. What about Next Great Battles Module #2 discussion?
Me: I don’t think he knows about Next Great Battles Module #2 discussion, Jack.
Jackfraser: What about Next Great Battles Module #3 discussion? Next Great Battles Module #4 discussion? Next Great Battles Module #5 discussion? Next Great Battles Module #6 discussion? Next Great Battled Module #7 discussion? He knows about them, doesn’t he?
Me: I wouldn’t count on it.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Alexmarine

[AndyJWest]

Some people like to fly imaginary planes, on a computer. Others prefer to imagine flying imaginary planes on a computer. Because the planes (and maps etc) are better in their imaginations...

[Eisenfaustus]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:30 PM, Jackfraser24 said:

Greece and Crete would be the last time Blitzkrieg use fully paid off, before it gradually became obsolete in Operation Barbarossa. A hypothetical Battle of Greece would show how effective the Blitzkrieg tactic was, when it was still completely successful when players fly missions and do a pilot career mode. Plus, it would demonstrate how much of a struggle it was for allied soldiers and airmen to counteract these German tactics.

There is no "Blitzkrieg tactic" - maneuvre warfare with focus speed is the Prusso-German way of war since 1812 until today. Plus what made it work well in the early stages of the war and why it failed from 1943 onward will hardly be ecperienced in a pilot career  

In tanker's career - maybe.

[DD_Arthur]

5 hours ago, CountZero said:

 

Next Great Battles Module #68

68!? I’m looking forward to that one.

BoBC; Battle of Barking Creek.

 

Never done before in a simulator, historic event, etc. Features fashionable early plane set;  Spitfire mk I, Hurricane mk I, er….that’s it?

[Jackfraser24]

7 hours ago, CountZero said:

This forum needs:

Next Great Battles Module #4

Next Great Battles Module #5

Next Great Battles Module #6

Next Great Battles Module #7

Next Great Battles Module #8

Next Great Battles Module #9

...

Next Great Battles Module #67

Next Great Battles Module #68

That hurts?
 

Next Great Battles Module 472 - Niraeth Arnoediad 

8 hours ago, BOO said:

How many threads on what the next module will be do we need? 

No more than this many. It is just trying to organise these things. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

That hurts?
 

Next Great Battles Module 472 - Niraeth Arnoediad 

No more than this many. It is just trying to organise these things. 

Credit to you for even thinking about organisation on a forum. 

[Jackfraser24]

Not that I have a problem with the new Normandy map, but why did they leave out London and Paris? 

[ww2fighter20]

17 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Not that I have a problem with the new Normandy map, but why did they leave out London and Paris? 

The Normandy map was only recently released after all aircraft were finished, so it could very well take another year if you wanted to add both Paris and London.

[Jackfraser24]

47 minutes ago, ww2fighter20 said:

The Normandy map was only recently released after all aircraft were finished, so it could very well take another year if you wanted to add both Paris and London.

Maybe 1CGS could allow a third party group to model both London and Paris.

[AndyJWest]

I suspect that the omission of London & Paris was done for performance reasons, as much as the work involved. 

[stburr91]

16 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

I suspect that the omission of London & Paris was done for performance reasons, as much as the work involved. 

 

Yes, and possibly loading times as well. 

[Jackfraser24]

Why wouldn't Great Battles be able to handle large cities like London, Paris, Berlin or Moscow?

[BOO]

35 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Why wouldn't Great Battles be able to handle large cities like London, Paris, Berlin or Moscow?

Because it cant handle towns like Hastings and Brighton in the manner they are created currently.

[Jackfraser24]

9 hours ago, BOO said:

Because it cant handle towns like Hastings and Brighton in the manner they are created currently.

Could they get the game to be able to handle Hastings, Brighton and the four cities I just mentioned above?

[BOO]

13 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Could they get the game to be able to handle Hastings, Brighton and the four cities I just mentioned above?

One for the devs. Btw it’s not specific places. It any sizeable conurbation 

[jollyjack]

Bought MS flightsim 2020. Thinking their maps are better .... no way, areas tested in Denmark i know even well from 30 years ago just suck.

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

One for the devs. Btw it’s not specific places. It any sizeable conurbation 

Does the Great Battles not being able to run large metropolises have something to do with the game’s engine, or something else?

[BOO]

14 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Does the Great Battles not being able to run large metropolises have something to do with the game’s engine, or something else?

Another one for the devs. Developer update 218 may have something to do with it. Or may not. I suspect it’s less about the engine and more the execution. 

[Jackfraser24]

2 minutes ago, BOO said:

Another one for the devs. Developer update 218 may have something to do with it. Or may not. I suspect it’s less about the engine and more the execution. 

Is there a general enquiry box of some sort where I could ask them directly? I won’t pester them though like I do here, ?. (Don’t worry, I don’t mean to pester you guys).

[BOO]

1 minute ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Is there a general enquiry box of some sort where I could ask them directly? I won’t pester them though like I do here, ?. (Don’t worry, I don’t mean to pester you guys).

I think not. Technical issues or complaints I guess. It’s been raised by a few to no response. I was interested to see someone working on a London mod and what seemed to be a tile of structures. I could be wrong but if that is the case then what I think happens and suspected from the dev diary is that the buildings on that tile load all at once causing a stutter.  In effect the tile is one big “thing”. The get around is what we had before with individually placed structures or smaller groups but that takes more time to create.  It’s certainly not performance restrictions as once you’ve flown over the area once the stutters tend to diminish when the details are cached. 

 

I haven’t tested thoroughly but I felt the stutters also diminished to nothing the more you fly. For instance starting in Dover and following the coast anti clockwise, by the time to get to broadstairs the stutter has gone. This to me indicates that building tiles (if they are a thing ) are repeated throughout the map but the game cannot cache them in a non volatile manner and has to recreate them every mission. 
 

certainly never saw this on maps prior to Bobp.  

I could be way off though. Just my supposition. 

[Jackfraser24]

12 minutes ago, BOO said:

I think not. Technical issues or complaints I guess. It’s been raised by a few to no response. I was interested to see someone working on a London mod and what seemed to be a tile of structures. I could be wrong but if that is the case then what I think happens and suspected from the dev diary is that the buildings on that tile load all at once causing a stutter.  In effect the tile is one big “thing”. The get around is what we had before with individually placed structures or smaller groups but that takes more time to create.  It’s certainly not performance restrictions as once you’ve flown over the area once the stutters tend to diminish when the details are cached. 

 

I haven’t tested thoroughly but I felt the stutters also diminished to nothing the more you fly. For instance starting in Dover and following the coast anti clockwise, by the time to get to broadstairs the stutter has gone. This to me indicates that building tiles (if they are a thing ) are repeated throughout the map but the game cannot cache them in a non volatile manner and has to recreate them every mission. 
 

certainly never saw this on maps prior to Bobp.  

I could be way off though. Just my supposition. 

Yeah, they seemed to have mastered being able to get the game to process cities like Frankfurt and Cologne pretty well.

[BOO]

Just now, Jackfraser24 said:

Yeah, they seemed to have mastered being able to get the game to process cities like Frankfurt and Cologne pretty well.

Not really. They stutter like the rest. Bon seems to have better blended conurbations into the scenery though. They don’t hover on the horizon like a mirage. Most still look like the king is about to visit though. Far too clean.

 

it’s all to be taken in the round. The devs have done a great job in a restrictive environment. I enjoy the map as I can and avoid what I don’t think is so great. 

 

 

 

 

[Props]

4 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Bought MS flightsim 2020. Thinking their maps are better .... no way, areas tested in Denmark i know even well from 30 years ago just suck.

I agree. I bought MSFS 2020 Premium and it took me a couple of months to get it dialed in and running smoothly after reviewing dozens of Youtube vids and reading the forums. When I finally got pass the CTDs and loads of stuttering, etc., I found the graphics really disappointing compared to IL2 GB. Then I finally tried out the Bing photogrammetry option and now it looks pretty good at 80 FPS and runs smooth, but the rivers and roads still run up the sides of cliffs, water looks like a thin layer of runoff over grass and I avoid flying around large cities where it's well known that performance will drop off sharply.

 

I remember in IL2 '46 I could not fly over Berlin without extreme stutters and CTDs and that was with a good strong PC for the times. It seems any good flight sim is going to be pushed hard by any large urban area so I can understand why the devs here have avoided including Paris, London etc. 

[Jackfraser24]

If they ever did a Battle of Monte Cassino, would Naples and Rome have to be left out?

[Guest deleted@83466]

“Oh, pardon me, just one more thing…”

 

[jollyjack]

16 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

If they ever did a Battle of Monte Cassino, would Naples and Rome have to be left out?

 

If all roads lead to Rome, then IL2 must be a dead end street?