Decision anxiety in which joystick to get.....

[FTC_horsky]

I am in need of a new joystick and cant really seem to make up my mind, could you guys maybe help me out in what i am really looking for, haven't tried any highend sticks so I don't have a reference, just reviews, talk and so on.

 

I'm currently using a CH Fighterstick and have been doing so for the past 15 years, always loved it and still do, will always do, my beloved......
To even think about changing it makes me feel like a heretic. But the time has come.... I think.

A while back you could get a hold of spare parts for the pots (which are horrendous by the way which most of you know having used CH, but I endured, it wasn't that bad for me, more an annoyance, but lately they have been acting up). But now I cant find them anywhere, but deeply still, I really don't want to change the pots. Them new fancy sticks looks really nice and shiny, wouldn't it be great to actually get a hold of a premium stick in ones short lifetime?
Or maybe its just an illusion, the grass is greener on the other side?

What I love with the Fighterstick is the generous amount of travel. Looking at them new Jet sticks they seem to have less travel, more stiff. Am I wrong or is it just a thing to get used to? Changing cams and springs would maybe give more generous movement?

I am a desk vr pilot, don't have space for a simpit and I need to use my pc for other stuff than just flying so I don't really want the stick between my legs either. I have been looking at the Gunfighter Mk.III and Virpil Constellation ALPHA-R with Warbrd base. The Constellation is mostly aimed at the spacesim market but having a lot of buttons is thankful in vr and also looks like the shorter choice of Virpils grips, easier to reach buttons than the Gunfighter for a small handed guy like me.

Mostly how do they compare and feel for you guys who have tried them? I read that they are similar in build quality and sturdiness, so its really down to them feels and ergonomics for me. The Gunfighter is in stock, the Virpil is always on backorder.

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

I am in need of a new joystick and cant really seem to make up my mind, could you guys maybe help me out in what i am really looking for, haven't tried any highend sticks so I don't have a reference, just reviews, talk and so on.

 

I'm currently using a CH Fighterstick and have been doing so for the past 15 years, always loved it and still do, will always do, my beloved......
To even think about changing it makes me feel like a heretic. But the time has come.... I think.

A while back you could get a hold of spare parts for the pots (which are horrendous by the way which most of you know having used CH, but I endured, it wasn't that bad for me, more an annoyance, but lately they have been acting up). But now I cant find them anywhere, but deeply still, I really don't want to change the pots. Them new fancy sticks looks really nice and shiny, wouldn't it be great to actually get a hold of a premium stick in ones short lifetime?
Or maybe its just an illusion, the grass is greener on the other side?

What I love with the Fighterstick is the generous amount of travel. Looking at them new Jet sticks they seem to have less travel, more stiff. Am I wrong or is it just a thing to get used to? Changing cams and springs would maybe give more generous movement?

I am a desk vr pilot, don't have space for a simpit and I need to use my pc for other stuff than just flying so I don't really want the stick between my legs either. I have been looking at the Gunfighter Mk.III and Virpil Constellation ALPHA-R with Warbrd base. The Constellation is mostly aimed at the spacesim market but having a lot of buttons is thankful in vr and also looks like the shorter choice of Virpils grips, easier to reach buttons than the Gunfighter for a small handed guy like me.

Mostly how do they compare and feel for you guys who have tried them? I read that they are similar in build quality and sturdiness, so its really down to them feels and ergonomics for me. The Gunfighter is in stock, the Virpil is always on backorder.

The Gladiator NXT from VKB is a desktop joystick that looks pretty similar to the CH fighterstick in terms of travel and position. Its reasonably affordable, about the same amount of buttons as your Fighter Stick, and I have heard good reviews from those who use it.

I use the CH Combat Stick myself  and that is the one I am looking at getting eventually. 

[Gambit21]

Gladiator NXT - I’m stoked with mine. Best stick I’ve ever used (Saitek for 20 years previous) 

[A_radek]

Kind of in the same boat. Been using a ch fighterstick for 20 years and love the amount of travel and soft feel. 

Tried a stock warthog stick and don't think I could aver get used to that as it felt so wrong for me. I suppose mainly the lack of cam mechanism, but it was also very stiff around center. 

So what would be a modern step up in quality from a Ch-stick while keeping a similar long throw and soft feel? The vkb and virpil offerings are not over the shelf items you can test in the shop after all.

[von_Tom]

 

VR or non-VR?  Your post suggests VR.

 

VR - Virpil CM2 base with an extension and whatever grip you want using a desk mount so you can remove it after gaming.  This is what I do and having a centre joystick between the legs very much adds to the whole VR experience.  The only problem is that you'll then NEED a CM3 throttle and desk mount...

 

Non-VR/desktop setup - VKB or Virpil WarBRD base with grip.

 

Others use the Gladiator but it has features you may not need - twist for example.

 

FWIW I think the Virpil ecosystem is more extensive, customisable and with a wider range of cot/value than VKB.  I struggle to understand the cost of the VKB products.  You'll be happy with either and whatever you get will be a step up.

 

Edit:  Just browsed the VKB site again and it is far more extensive than it used to be.

 

5 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

So what would be a modern step up in quality from a Ch-stick while keeping a similar long throw and soft feel? The vkb and virpil offerings are not over the shelf items you can test in the shop after all.

 

Virpil CM2 base, desk mount, Warthog grip.

 

Elevator - Aviasim cam with soft centre

Ailerons - Aviasim cam with no centre

 

Strongest springs tightened down a lot.

 

VR setup though.

 

von Tom

Edited May 12, 2021 by von_Tom

[Sokol1]

16 hours ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

I'm currently using a CH Fighterstick and have been doing so for the past 15 years, always loved it and still do, will always do, my beloved......
To even think about changing it makes me feel like a heretic. But the time has come.... I think.

A while back you could get a hold of spare parts for the pots (which are horrendous by the way which most of you know having used CH, but I endured, it wasn't that bad for me, more an annoyance, but lately they have been acting up). But now I cant find them anywhere, but deeply still, I really don't want to change the pots.

 

 

Just in case, replacement potentiometers (and some spare parts) for CH's is now available through Digikey.

 

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/accessories/881?s=N4IgjCBcoLQdIDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbXAAYAWckAXQF9Gg

 

And better, Rel4y (Germany) has contactless replacement (KMZ41 like in GVL224 controllers) for pot's, and (optional) 14 bits USB controller.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/214485-ch-products-upgrades/

 

Spoiler

 

 

But if an new stick is the option, get at least VKB NXT Standard ~$120.00 or Premium ~$150.00 - nothing better exist in this price range.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Sokol1

[FTC_horsky]

Thanks a bunch guys!!! Glad for you input in the matter and wow! you found spare parts Sokol1, then i'll fix the CH as well.

 

I went for the Gunfighter MKIII and MCG Pro grip, they had it all in stock, thought after all these years I'm worth an upgrade ?

 

von_Tom, seems that VKB have stepped up their game with a lot of customization, I think that in a not so distant future I'll add the desktop mount,
like you say, adds to the VR experience. ?

 

Thanks!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vortice]

Low cost version of the Gladiator MK. II available here:

 

From Aliexpress

 

If I was starting from a zero point and didn't want to spend a lot of of money I might be tempted to give it a try.

[cardboard_killer]

16 hours ago, Vortice said:

Low cost version of the Gladiator MK. II available here:

 

Nevermind. see following posts.

Edited May 13, 2021 by cardboard_killer
New things have come to light, man.

[Sokol1]

6 hours ago, Vortice said:

Low cost version of the Gladiator MK. II available here:

From Aliexpress

 

Notice that this is not a genuine VKB stick, but an OEM version made by Asian-Games factory - who own the molds for plastic injection for Gladiator (and not VKB) and can sell for third part distributors (eg. Ravecore Javelin).

 

These not know brand probable is with an low cost electronics (like happens with Cobra M5) and no more the - already cut-down; electronics version of VKB present in the first of this OEM joystick's, e.g. Javelin. In this OEM rudder twist axis use low price/quality potentiometer and not VKB MaRS contacless sensor of authentic VKB Gladiator.

 

 

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, Vortice said:

Low cost version of the Gladiator MK. II available here:

 

From Aliexpress

 

If I was starting from a zero point and didn't want to spend a lot of of money I might be tempted to give it a try.

 

Don't do it.

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2 (eBay is your friend).

[Vortice]

OK, after undertaking some more research:

 

Ravencore Javelin worth it? - Hardware, Software and Controllers - IL-2 Sturmovik Forum (il2sturmovik.com)

 

Read post #4. This fellow seems happy enough with his purchase.

[Gambit21]

Don’t do it.

[dburne]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:22 AM, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

Thanks a bunch guys!!! Glad for you input in the matter and wow! you found spare parts Sokol1, then i'll fix the CH as well.

 

I went for the Gunfighter MKIII and MCG Pro grip, they had it all in stock, thought after all these years I'm worth an upgrade ?

 

von_Tom, seems that VKB have stepped up their game with a lot of customization, I think that in a not so distant future I'll add the desktop mount,
like you say, adds to the VR experience. ?

 

Thanks!!!!!

 

?

Most excellent choice!!

[Vortice]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:04 PM, Gambit21 said:

Don’t do it.

Thank you for your helpful contributions Captain Kneejerk.

 

You can stop twitching now.

[Gambit21]

6 minutes ago, Vortice said:

Thank you for your helpful contributions Captain Kneejerk.

 

You can stop twitching now.

 

Someone had to save him from your a ‘advice’ and ‘research’...and you’re quite welcome.

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

[FTC_horsky]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:17 PM, 30speed said:

Wow! that's a real beaut of a joystick! ?

 

After now a weeks usage with the Gunfighter MKIII, I can just say that my fears are gone. I've managed with cams and springs find the exact feeling I was after. And wow, its so easy. I read your review dburne and totally agree, it was very easy, hassle free and straightforward customizing the gunfighter to ones liking ?

[FTC_horsky]

So, now to a throttle quadrant ?

 

Currently im using a Twcs throttle which does its job, Ive had it quite some time and it has served me well. Ive done the Nyogel 767a lubrication, its a lot better but still more to wish for. Im not gonna do the bearing/3dprint replacement, id rather get a new throttle with more levers, dials and buttons.

So naturally I was thinking on GVL224's excellent throttles, tried to order the "Mvdm" a while back, but payments to Ukraine is prohibited from Sweden?

 

So when browsing around, retail. There's just not so much alternatives. The Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle seems like the best choice, but always on back-order. Alternative is Winwings or the older Warthog throttle, though I think the price for the separate throttle is a bit to much considering its age. But mostly id like a ww2 style throttle quadrant. KantorinKones beautiful Jabo console comes to mind but I dont have the space for a simpit which would be ideal for those quadrants. Im a lowly desktop peasant pilot? The size of the "Mvdm" is perfect.

 

Do you guys have any input, experience that can guide my choice in the matter?

 

Thanks

 

[dburne]

3 hours ago, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

So, now to a throttle quadrant ?

 

Currently im using a Twcs throttle which does its job, Ive had it quite some time and it has served me well. Ive done the Nyogel 767a lubrication, its a lot better but still more to wish for. Im not gonna do the bearing/3dprint replacement, id rather get a new throttle with more levers, dials and buttons.

So naturally I was thinking on GVL224's excellent throttles, tried to order the "Mvdm" a while back, but payments to Ukraine is prohibited from Sweden?

 

So when browsing around, retail. There's just not so much alternatives. The Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle seems like the best choice, but always on back-order. Alternative is Winwings or the older Warthog throttle, though I think the price for the separate throttle is a bit to much considering its age. But mostly id like a ww2 style throttle quadrant. KantorinKones beautiful Jabo console comes to mind but I dont have the space for a simpit which would be ideal for those quadrants. Im a lowly desktop peasant pilot? The size of the "Mvdm" is perfect.

 

Do you guys have any input, experience that can guide my choice in the matter?

 

Thanks

 

 

Virpil's equipment will most always show on back order, that is their newer ordering system.

You place an order and that gets it in process. They will notify about a week before shipping and charge you at that time.

Total turnaround is usually around 3-6 weeks.

The CM3 throttle is well worth the wait imho. Absolutely loving mine.

 

[von_Tom]

 

 

The VIRPIL throttle is excellent and superior to the Warthog in terms of feel, smoothness and ease of programming the buttons.

 

Having had both, for me the quality jump justified the extra cost.

 

von  Tom

[Voyager]

On a side note, the Warthog grips should be compatible with the Virpril bases, if you want to retain the F-16 style stick, like I did. 

 

Now, that said, I got my Warthog used and cheap with a recessed base connector* so I never used it at the normal length. I was always planning on using it with a 20cm extension so I really can't say what it would have been like stock. 

 

*I may have caused the issue myself by incorrectly installing the stick to the base, so I don't know if it was or was not shipped that way. Plus it was around $200 below new retail, and, again, I got it to use an extension with, so decided to set it up that way and not poke the vendor about it. 

 

If the base gives up the ghost I'll probably replace it with a Virpril one. But, for now it works. 

[Capt_Hook]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:38 AM, SvAF/F16_horsky said:

So, now to a throttle quadrant ?

 

Currently im using a Twcs throttle which does its job, Ive had it quite some time and it has served me well. Ive done the Nyogel 767a lubrication, its a lot better but still more to wish for. Im not gonna do the bearing/3dprint replacement, id rather get a new throttle with more levers, dials and buttons.

So naturally I was thinking on GVL224's excellent throttles, tried to order the "Mvdm" a while back, but payments to Ukraine is prohibited from Sweden?

 

So when browsing around, retail. There's just not so much alternatives. The Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle seems like the best choice, but always on back-order. Alternative is Winwings or the older Warthog throttle, though I think the price for the separate throttle is a bit to much considering its age. But mostly id like a ww2 style throttle quadrant. KantorinKones beautiful Jabo console comes to mind but I dont have the space for a simpit which would be ideal for those quadrants. Im a lowly desktop peasant pilot? The size of the "Mvdm" is perfect.

 

Do you guys have any input, experience that can guide my choice in the matter?

 

Thanks

 

Last time I was looking at GVL (and I will buy one once the WH throttle / CH quad combo wears out) he was using either direct wire or an intermediary which is Deutsche Bank in Germany.  If you can wire money to Germany (which should be a simple as anything) you should be able to pay him.  Direct wire is faster, but if Sweden doesn't have a banking relationship with Ukraine then you have to use the intermediary.

 

[J2_Seya]

For desk pilots make sure to check out this chair. You too can have your own sim pit.

 

https://www.monster.tech/

 

[cardboard_killer]

I like the cut out for my balls to hang down. Keeps things nice and cool.

 

[von_Tom]

2 hours ago, J2_Seya said:

For desk pilots make sure to check out this chair. You too can have your own sim pit.

 

https://www.monster.tech/

 

For a desk chair with a cutout that is expensive. You can get a whole sim pit for that. 
 

von Tom

[J2_Seya]

22 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

For a desk chair with a cutout that is expensive. You can get a whole sim pit for that. 
 

von Tom

It's very expensive but so are high quality office chairs.  This is a high quality office chair and flexible mounting system.

Edited June 5, 2021 by J2_Seya

[jollyjack]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:17 PM, 30speed said:

 

So that's where and how my stolen mountain bike ended up , nice, very nice ... ?

[LukeFF]

21 hours ago, von_Tom said:

For a desk chair with a cutout that is expensive. You can get a whole sim pit for that. 
 

von Tom

 

21 hours ago, J2_Seya said:

It's very expensive but so are high quality office chairs.  This is a high quality office chair and flexible mounting system.

 

The Monstertech stuff is expensive but it's also high-quality. I've been very pleased with everything I've bought from them.

[JG7_X-Man]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:24 PM, LukeFF said:

 

 

The Monstertech stuff is expensive but it's also high-quality. I've been very pleased with everything I've bought from them.

100% Agree! I went with their chair mount options too but paired them with a SecretLabs Titan chair, which is a much cheaper solution.

Now if I can just find Virpil discount code for free shipping for the T-50CM3, I'll be in business.