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The internal search engine of this site


greybeard_52
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greybeard_52

The internal search engine of this site is rather poor as it gives very vague indications and far from what is sought. In other sites with the same problem, the introduction of the dedicated Google search engine has given excellent results. Could the same be done here too? I think a more efficient search could avoid wasting time and duplicating threads.

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AEthelraedUnraed
Posted (edited)

As a programmer with experience in AI, machine learning (both neural nets and the "traditional" methods) and data processing, my opinion is: No, the same cannot be done.

 

Humans language is hard to understand. Humans even more so. Understanding what content a human wants based on just one or two words is nearly impossible. Google has years of experience in the business, they count leading AI experts among their employees and they spend a multiple of the yearly budget of 1C Games *every hour* and even Google sometimes has a hard time coming up with what you want. 1C Games could put the entire IL2 team on improving the website search, and still it wouldn't even come close to what Google can do.

Edited by AEthelraedUnraed
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AndyJWest
Posted (edited)

A 2016 quote from Google:

Quote

"Our employees are among our best assets and are critical for our continued success. We expect to continue investing in hiring talented employees and to provide competitive compensation programs to our employees. As of December 31, 2014, we had 53,600 full-time employees: 20,832 in research and development, 17,621 in sales and marketing, 7,510 in general and administrative functions, and 7,637 in operations.

 

 

And you can always use Google here, restricting it to the single website. Just start your search with "site:il2sturmovik.com", and that's all it will return.

 

 

 

Edited by AndyJWest
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  • 3 weeks later...

I keep getting this with x up to 59:

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait x seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

 

Always having to wait until it's over to be able to see the results after a F5 press in the first place, and reoccurring directly when clicking to the next results page...

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Dutch2

Same here, it shows when you after the sears you want to change it to “ sort by date”     

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait 53 seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

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AEthelraedUnraed

Because I prefer the IL2 team to spend their money on improving the game rather than the search function, something that's quite impossible anyhow.

 

Use Google. Put "site:il2sturmovik.com" in front of every query and it'll only give results from the IL2 site.

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AndyJWest

Yup. Use Google if you are having issues.

 

Google employ hundreds of people just to work on improving the effectiveness of their search engine AI. IL-2 GB employs nobody for it, and shouldn't.

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ZachariasX
On 5/29/2021 at 10:55 AM, Eldur said:

Always having to wait until it's over to be able to see the results after a F5 press in the first place, and reoccurring directly when clicking to the next results page...

Clear the cache of your browser and all is well.

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AndyJWest
5 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Clear the cache of your browser and all is well.

 

Yeah. The software used for this forum (Invision Community, incidentally also used for DCS) can be a bit flaky sometimes, but clearing the cache often helps.

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jollyjack
4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Because I prefer the IL2 team to spend their money on improving the game rather than the search function, something that's quite impossible anyhow.

 

Use Google. Put "site:il2sturmovik.com" in front of every query and it'll only give results from the IL2 site.

 

I use Startpage, often finds what i am looking for on the IL2 site much faster ...

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AEthelraedUnraed
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Google employ hundreds of people just to work on improving the effectiveness of their search engine AI.

Not true.

 

 

They use thousands. Google employs hundreds of people to develop tools like TensorFlow, which the Google researchers use to develop neural network architectures, which are used by other Google programmers to improve Google Search, which is then used by the former Google employees to find information on how to optimise python code in order to develop better versions of TensorFlow. Sort of a vicious circle. It's a good thing the IL2 team doesn't do this as well.

Edited by AEthelraedUnraed
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LukeFF
7 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Use Google. Put "site:il2sturmovik.com" in front of every query and it'll only give results from the IL2 site.

 

Exactly - using this method, it's child's play to find whatever it is you're looking for here.

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sniperton

Thank you for the workarounds. But what about a solution?

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AndyJWest
3 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Thank you for the workarounds. But what about a solution?

 

Well clearly the developers could stop developing simulation software, and take up forum software development instead, but I'm not sure that would be a popular move. Or very likely, a profitable one, since others with more experience are already producing such software. Which is presumably why this forum uses externally-produced software (despite its failings) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

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Cybermat47
3 hours ago, sniperton said:

Thank you for the workarounds. But what about a solution?


That would be something to bring up with the people who developed the forum software, not the game’s developers.

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LukeFF
21 hours ago, sniperton said:

Thank you for the workarounds. But what about a solution?

 

It's not a workaround - it's just a very efficient way to search for information very rapidly, regardless of the forum software a site uses. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

This didn't used to happen.  Why did this change?  It makes searching more difficult and discouraging.  Often one does not pick the exact right words and needs to refine their search.  For instance I put in "Bridge destruction".  I get x thousand results.  I realize I need to search for "Destruction logic"  but instead of a search I get this.....

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait 54 seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

 

Why?  And why so long?

Edited by Beebop
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RedKestrel
9 minutes ago, Beebop said:

This didn't used to happen.  Why did this change?  It makes searching more difficult and discouraging.  Often one does not pick the exact right words and needs to refine their search.  For instance I put in "Bridge destruction".  I get x thousand results.  I realize I need to search for "Destruction logic"  but instead of a search I get this.....

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait 54 seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

 

Why?  And why so long?

Search functions for the whole forum are probably pretty resource intensive. Maybe the server is overloaded a bit?

A roundabout way is you could try searching directly through google. You can search the forums by putting "site:forum.il2sturmovik.com" in front of your search terms. But I don't get many hits when I try out "destruction logic" as a search.

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6 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Search functions for the whole forum are probably pretty resource intensive. Maybe the server is overloaded a bit?

It used to work.  It seems though that changes are made without letting us users know what they are or how they may affect you.

 

7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

A roundabout way is you could try searching directly through google

Sometimes I have to do that as the original search looks for each word in the request so for "Bridge Destruction" I get every result for 'Bridge' and 'destruction'.

 

The change is a little frustrating is all. 

 

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ShamrockOneFive

The 60 second timeout has been in place for years. I've run into it many times.

 

It's to prevent the system being overwhelmed and spammed. It could be a little more lenient though. Maybe 30 seconds would be better to worth with.

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8 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

The 60 second timeout has been in place for years. I've run into it many times.

Hmmmm.  I've only run into it recently.  Maybe I'm getting too jumpy in my old age. 😉

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Dakpilot

Seems to be a glitch 

 

I have only had issues since the whole forum had some probs about a month ago

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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Dragon1-1

It's the stupid IPS engine that does that. On some forums it's disabled or at least limited, but not here. Annoying, especially if it's a forum that prefers necroposting to making another thread on the same topic. If your search engine needs DDOS protection, then there are deeply seated problems with either it or the thing it's searching (in this case, likely both). Unfortunately, this POS software seems to be the new standard. I'd take the old vBulletin over this any day, I have to set every single forum that uses it to 90% zoom, so that its UI goes from unusable to merely hideous. Nobody is flightsimming on mobile here, and I certainly don't remember it having this problem.

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(insert search topic here) site:il2sturmovk.com on Google search is the far, far more efficient way to find what you're looking for.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=bridge+destruction+logic+site%3Ail2sturmovik.com&rlz=1CAOTWH_enUS957&oq=bridge+destruction+logic+site%3Ail2sturmovik.com&aqs=chrome..69i57.6785j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited by LukeFF
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  • 4 weeks later...
352ndOscar

…..is really starting to piss me off!  60 seconds?  look, I’m an IT guy and that’s just too long for the security requirement you are trying to meet.  15-20 seconds will accomplish the same thing.  Please give it a look……. Thanks!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I remember a time when it wasn't like this.

When I get results and I try to go to the next page I get a message I have to wait 'X' seconds to conduct a new search.  What new search?  I'm on the same search just wanting to go to a different page.  One that the engine brought up!

It's VERY frustrating.

I get that maybe the idea is to keep from flooding the server but when you try to go to the next page in the search you're already in?

And I know it's a small team with a lot on their plate but this isn't FM/DM modeling, 3D rendering or detailed map building.  It's a search engine fer chrissakes.

 

As much as I want the Westland Whirlwind, Torpedo bombers, a Continuation War map, etc., etc., etc. can we P L E A S E get this fixed?

Google isn't that much better.

Or will I now spend 1/4 of my time mission building going through hundreds of pages one at a time to find what I want? 

I have learned through using the ME that patience is a virtue. 

I have also learned that frustration aggravates the worst in you.

 

Nevermind.  I found where I complained about this in June.  Nothing happened then and nothing will happen now I imagine.

I guess it's cross we'll have to bear.

 

However the PS remains;

P.S.  Why do I have "Moderator Options" in the upper left hand corner of my "New Topic"?  I don't remember getting a "promotion".  :unsure:

 

Edited by Beebop
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  • Beebop changed the title to Search Makes You Wait. W H Y ? (nevermind)
ST_Catchov
3 hours ago, Beebop said:

Nevermind.  I found where I complained about this in June.

 

Link? I quit with search rage.

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  • 2 weeks later...
IckyATLAS

When I do a search I get say a list of posts.

If I click on a post I open it and if say it does not correspond to what I was looking for and want to check another post, I get a screen that displays Sorry! there is a problem do a new search ion 13 seconds.

Ok I wait and do a new search and then if it is not satisfactory I get:

Sorry! there is a problem do a new search ion 43 seconds.

What the f*. It was not like that in the past. Is this a new a feature of the new forum software.

If so that is crap.

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AEthelraedUnraed

It's been like that for years, and I'd rather have the Devs put time in developing the game rather than the website search function, something in which you can never reach the quality of Google anyhow.

 

Just use Google, and type in "site:il2sturmovik.com" in front of your search query. That way, Google only shows results from the IL2 site.

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JG27_PapaFly
On 6/1/2021 at 12:53 AM, AndyJWest said:

Well clearly the developers could stop developing simulation software, and take up forum software development instead, but I'm not sure that would be a popular move. Or very likely, a profitable one, since others with more experience are already producing such software. Which is presumably why this forum uses externally-produced software (despite its failings) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

Good communication channels to the customer base are essential for any profitable company. If those are not in place, customers feel ignored, and the company has no future.

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Noisemaker
On 8/12/2021 at 7:34 PM, JG27_PapaFly said:

Good communication channels to the customer base are essential for any profitable company. If those are not in place, customers feel ignored, and the company has no future.

Have you tried to communicate with Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon or Ebay lately?

:D

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Enceladus

After checking on activity I did the last time I could easily use the search function without: 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait x seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

That day was May 24th 2021.

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JG27_PapaFly
On 8/17/2021 at 7:39 PM, Noisemaker said:

Have you tried to communicate with Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon or Ebay lately?

You prefer to be ignored as a user? Enjoy! Those are global monopolists who are in a position to ignore users and get away with it. Guess what, German car makers thought they were in a similar position. Then came Tesla, and there are many more competitors from the far east.

 

This game is a tiny business. It should be all about customer relations. There's definitely room for improvement in the forum section.

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Noisemaker
49 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

You prefer to be ignored as a user? Enjoy! Those are global monopolists who are in a position to ignore users and get away with it. Guess what, German car makers thought they were in a similar position. Then came Tesla, and there are many more competitors from the far east.

 

This game is a tiny business. It should be all about customer relations. There's definitely room for improvement in the forum section.

You stated:

 

On 8/12/2021 at 7:34 PM, JG27_PapaFly said:

Good communication channels to the customer base are essential for any profitable company. If those are not in place, customers feel ignored, and the company has no future.

I replied with a list of profitable companies that have ignored good customer communication for as long as I remember (Well before they were market dominant), putting rest to your assertion that such companies have no future.

Are there communication issues with 1C?  Sure, but the fact remains (as you said) that this is a tiny business (and Russian to boot, with very few English speaking staff!), and that means that we have to give them a bit of slack when it comes to forum software issues or response times regarding bugs, etc.

I know that when I submit bug reports, they are acknowledged and relatively quickly addressed by the team.  Flaky forum software that they license from a third party is out of their hands.  Who know, maybe there's a 1C team member whose job is to constantly complain on the forum software provider's website about their shitty product, but I doubt it.  Most likely, they submit a bug report, and the software vendor deals with it when they can.

 

 

Edited by Noisemaker
Grammar
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  • 2 weeks later...
wheelsup_cavu

The Ubisoft forums lousy, and that is being extremely kind, search engine forced me to learn a new way to search sites if I wanted to find ANYTHING in the old 1C Maddox forums by using the site search function in your browser. Really should not have to resort to those tactics here or anywhere else but it is what it is...

 

site: forum.il2sturmovik.com/ formation flying

 

Using Site limits the search to that specific site and then you add your search term or terms. Works reasonably well and there is no timeouts.

 

Wheels

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352ndOscar

[quote]Flaky forum software that they license from a third party is out of their hands.[/quote]

 

BS.  I’ve been a forum administrator, website builder, website hoster, website designer, US Govt UNIX System Administrator and System Designer for years!  This forum software HAS the configuration settings for one, if not several, security timeout settings.  Whomever is administering this site has more than enough capability - within the software - to correct this problem.  Just do it!

 

Just an FYI….  This forum software created by Invision Community @ https://invisioncommunity.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7MGJBhD-ARIsAMZ0ees9sF4y4r_Teuog0tYzJa70Imczx17kKXpZlVW52iL5c5uNY06crB0aAuMPEALw_wcB

 

…..NOT 1C/777.

Edited by 352ndOscar
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On 8/10/2021 at 1:59 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Just use Google, and type in "site:il2sturmovik.com" in front of your search query. That way, Google only shows results from the IL2 site.

 

Anyone know how to go about that with DuckDuckGo...

 

I avoid google as much as possible.

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wheelsup_cavu
1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

Anyone know how to go about that with DuckDuckGo...

 

I avoid google as much as possible.

 

No difference. I use DuckDuckGo also.

So far I have not found a search engine where this has failed to work.

 

Wheels

1 hour ago, 352ndOscar said:

[quote]Flaky forum software that they license from a third party is out of their hands.[/quote]

 

BS.  I’ve been a forum administrator, website builder, website hoster, website designer, US Govt UNIX System Administrator and System Designer for years!  This forum software HAS the configuration settings for one, if not several, security timeout settings.  Whomever is administering this site has more than enough capability - within the software - to correct this problem.  Just do it!

 

Just an FYI….  This forum software created by Invision Community @ https://invisioncommunity.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7MGJBhD-ARIsAMZ0ees9sF4y4r_Teuog0tYzJa70Imczx17kKXpZlVW52iL5c5uNY06crB0aAuMPEALw_wcB

 

…..NOT 1C/777.

 

Lol, they did and for them this is likely working as wanted. We just do not like the choice that was made by them. :lol:

Imo, Shutting down the ability to search when not logged into the site hurts them more though.

 

Wheels

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Noisemaker
2 hours ago, 352ndOscar said:

[quote]Flaky forum software that they license from a third party is out of their hands.[/quote]

 

BS.  I’ve been a forum administrator, website builder, website hoster, website designer, US Govt UNIX System Administrator and System Designer for years!  This forum software HAS the configuration settings for one, if not several, security timeout settings.  Whomever is administering this site has more than enough capability - within the software - to correct this problem.  Just do it!

 

Just an FYI….  This forum software created by Invision Community @ https://invisioncommunity.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7MGJBhD-ARIsAMZ0ees9sF4y4r_Teuog0tYzJa70Imczx17kKXpZlVW52iL5c5uNY06crB0aAuMPEALw_wcB

 

…..NOT 1C/777.

I can't help but notice in your attempt to make an argument from authority (Yourself being the authority), that you failed to use the forum quote function correctly.

That must be embarrassing (For yourself, if not the US Govt for whom you've worked, had they any sense of shame or embarrassment)!

Maybe you should tell the forum administrators how to set their security timeout settings so we can resolve this issue once and for all.

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