Will we get some black pilots for American side?

[Fern]

Since it is February now, everyone knows it's Black History Month. In commemoration of Lollipoop II and the pilot that flew it, I think it would be neat to see an actual pilot model of 1st Lt. Spurgeon Ellington in the P-51. Seeing a white guy in the cockpit doesnt seem right in Lollipoop. It would be awesome to see and to honor these guys for the barriers they broke.

 

Just change the skin color and add that mustache quickly.

 

[KatieLuna]

Plus (if it's not already in game) African-American voiceovers

[-332FG-Buddy]

Yes please!

[ShadowStalker887]

I would be pretty cool to have some black pilots for the Brits and Yanks.

[Dukethejuke]

This is a great group!

[Soarfeat]

+1 for this topic 

cheers -sf-

[Birdman]

It would be great !

[morron76]

Col. Fred Cherry (USAF, POW)

Lt. Jesse Brown (USN?)

Gen. Frank Petersen (USMC) 

 

Would all be good ones to look into (for international Il-2-fans; probably translated into several languages by now) for BHM. 

 

Also, I'll second the need for a green/blue/pink/whatever pilot skin based on Spurgeon Ellington as long as it has that mustache...

Hehehe...pretty smooth; Clark Gable would be jealous of that stache!

Edited February 12, 2020 by morron76

[Toots_LeGuerre]

Today is 'Juneteenth' in the USA which commemorates the end of slavery.

Now that  a pretty Russian fighter pilot figure can fill the U2 cockpit,

the honorable thing to do is make available an Africa-American 'Red Tail' fighter pilot figure  

for the P-40, the P-39, the P-47, and P-51, all of which they flew.

(Of the 355 pilots Tuskegee Airmen deployed overseas, 84 were lost in action.) 

 

[Jason_Williams]

I would love to, but I don't know when we can do it. As with everything we have to schedule it and pay for it. The woman was done as a special project that I personally paid for. I love the history and story of the Redtails just like all patriotic Americans, but our sim does not cover their theater of operations or the unit in which they served. But it would be cool to have them anyways. My Russian partners however are less familiar with their story even if there is a movie about them. Regardless, when it's feasible to add a pilot model of a Tuskegee airman we will do so. We already include one of their paint-jobs in our P-51 skins.

I'd also like to make an Italian, Hungarian and Romanian pilot too someday. The female pilot was a specific piece of work done to round out the U-2VS product and realistically portray a well known unit that is indeed included in the theater we cover. It was not meant to be a political statement.

 

But please, we really try to keep this forum an apolitical place, lets not go down the path of racial politics here. It's hard enough just talking about WWII events with all the ugliness it involves. And some of the comments made by our male dominated audience when we showed pics of the female pilot needs cleaning up now too. We love everyone of all races, colors, creeds and nationalities or genders. We have customers all over the world and we appreciate and respect aviation history of all nations.

 

We just want to make an awesome combat flight-simulation. 

 

I'm locking this thread only because it will devolve into a political discussion which is not what this forum is about. However, you can discuss the history of the Redtails in the Free Subject area below as long as it doesn't get too heated.

 

Jason 

[-332FG-Buddy]

This may be arbitrary, but I was wondering if we could get an authentic tuskegee airmen pilot skin. With all these updates being done, I would see it as some very small to do with changing the tone of a pilots skin.  I thinks it's awesome u added female pilots, but u literally have a red tail skin P-51 flown by a white pilot.  These pilots were subjugated to harsh treatment and still overcame, just to have them be portrayed as a white pilot in a future game honoring all ww2 flyers ( men and women ).   

[-332FG-Buddy]

It's not the theater of operation but the skin is available????? Last I checked black pilots wore the same gear as the white pilots????? The only thing that would need adjusting is the color of their skin???? I would honestly like to know how much that cost?...... A woman pilot is a different model .....a black pilot is only different because of the shade of his skin.  That response, to me a black man, is disrespectful. In one hand u say u love the history but say it's to expensive or time consuming to change the color of their skin? It was not to time consuming to make the red tail skin In The first place.  So we can't even have our history now? ...to some this may not be important but to me it is, I looked up to these Individuals and the strength they demonstrated serving our country.  This isn't a political conversation .....this is a u make a red tail skin but not a black pilot to fly it conversation.

[Cybermat47]

16 minutes ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

It's not the theater of operation but the skin is available????? Last I checked black pilots wore the same gear as the white pilots????? The only thing that would need adjusting is the color of their skin????

It wouldn’t be as simple as changing the skin colour. African-Americans have a different facial structure than European-Americans like the current US pilot. As a result, making a Tuskegee airman would require a new 3D model, which is a much more involved process than a retexture. Brand new textures would have to be made for the pilot as well.

 

I do agree with you that the Red Tails skins need Tuskegee airmen models to go with them (and it would be cool to see Eugene Bullard added to FC), though. I’m autistic, so I understand wanting to see more (well done) representation of minority groups in media. But the fact is that time and money are in short supply for flight sim developers.

[-332FG-Buddy]

8 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

It wouldn’t be as simple as changing the skin colour. African-Americans have a different facial structure than European-Americans like the current US pilot. As a result, making a Tuskegee airman would require a new 3D model, which is a much more involved process than a retexture. Brand new textures would have to be made for the pilot as well.

 

I do agree with you that the Red Tails skins need Tuskegee airmen models to go with them (and it would be cool to see Eugene Bullard added to FC), though. I’m autistic, so I understand wanting to see more (well done) representation of minority groups in media. But the fact is that time and money are in short supply for flight sim developers.

Not all black people have different facial structures as white people, especially black people from America.  And again tuskegee pilots wore what ever other american pilots wore....ur reply is pretty close to being a straw man argument.

[sturmkraehe]

With the Western front I think if would be great to be able to chose a black guy as pilot so we could historically correctly reenact virtually some Red Tail missions?

[Avimimus]

It has been discussed. I believe the Red Tails aren't in the current campaigns (although I think one of their skins may be). I believe Jason has said that they are open to the idea but it is dependent on resources. I also suspect that it might just be for one or two types of aircraft if it happens someday.

[Jason_Williams]

The 99th served in North Africa and Italy. We don't model those theaters. I've said this before. I'd rather make other nationalities that were present in the maps we currently have, but even then it's a lot of work and a fair amount of cash to make. I paid for the female Soviet pilot out of my own pocket. 

 

Maybe someday I'll make an African-American pilot just because, but right now it's not a priority for historical and budgetary reasons only.

 

Jason  

[-332FG-Buddy]

So we are working on an American bomber pilot model, with no bomber.  Yet we have a Tuskegee airmen skin and yet still no pilot model for them?????

[Mtnbiker1998]

I agree a Tuskegee Pilot Model would be really nice but to be fair, we don't actually have a proper theater for where Tuskegee Pilot's flew (fingers crossed for Italy as the next expansion after Normandy)  meanwhile we do in fact currently have AI bombers that need a proper pilot model. The priorities seem right to me for now.

 

Also wouldn't the flyable C-47 we have on the way benefit from these Bomber pilot models too?

[Q_Walker]

Jason already responded to why there isn't a Tuskegee pilot model.

Quote

Maybe someday I'll make an African-American pilot just because, but right now it's not a priority for historical and budgetary reasons only.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Q_Walker

[-332FG-Buddy]

2 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I agree a Tuskegee Pilot Model would be really nice but to be fair, we don't actually have a proper theater for where Tuskegee Pilot's flew (fingers crossed for Italy as the next expansion after Normandy)  meanwhile we do in fact currently have AI bombers that need a proper pilot model. The priorities seem right to me for now.

 

Also wouldn't the flyable C-47 we have on the way benefit from these Bomber pilot models too?

That is a fair point if time was not put in to make a 332nd skin!!!.... I know this isn't the theater where they flew but u have the skin ???? ...we have pilots from all over, we even have woman pilots, but .........no black pilot to match the skin THEY created??

1 hour ago, Q_Walker said:

Jason already responded to why there isn't a Tuskegee pilot model.

 

His response is no response ...it doesn't answer why they made the skin but not the pilot for it....... Tuskegee airmen / black men where held back during this period and it was very important history for us, yet u make skins without the pilot to represent them????? I'm gonna keep mentioning it when I see other pilot models made yet the redtail skin has been here since boldenplatte ( almost two years) and the issues keeps getting pushed back ....dare I say black pilot representation in a game that modeled their aircraft skin is not important????????

Edited August 6, 2021 by -332FG-Buddy

[Q_Walker]

His response is certainly a response, when they have the time and the resources to do so, I'm sure he will. As he has just stated today, they are pretty swamped with features that actually add to the gameplay. Considering you can't even see your own pilot unless you are looking in external or at another plane, I think it would be ok to continue passing over this "issue".

[-332FG-Buddy]

12 minutes ago, Q_Walker said:

His response is certainly a response, when they have the time and the resources to do so, I'm sure he will. As he has just stated today, they are pretty swamped with features that actually add to the gameplay. Considering you can't even see your own pilot unless you are looking in external or at another plane, I think it would be ok to continue passing over this "issue".

its ok to ignore the history of black pilots? for you ? thats fine..... but me as a black man i take offense that time was spent to make a model with no pilot to represent that.  you may think its a small issue, but to me it is not

and his answer of time and resourses is unsat.  maybe its not a priority cause its about black pilots? 

[Mtnbiker1998]

9 minutes ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

That is a fair point if time was not put in to make a 332nd skin!!!.... I know this isn't the theater where they flew but u have the skin ???? ...we have pilots from all over, we even have woman pilots, but .........no black pilot to match the skin THEY created??

Its a lot less work to make a skin than it is to make a whole new pilot model bud. I think its pretty cool and a good homage that they chose to include the skin in the first place, they didn't have to. 

 

They do however need to add a bomber pilot model for the bombers, and eventually (hopefully) they'll add an Italian pilot for the Mc.202 and any future Italian planes, just like I'd hope they add a Japanese Pilot model and a US Navy Aviator if they ever do the pacific theater. These would all be higher priority than adding a new model for the P-51 (and other planes the 332nd flew) which already has a usable pilot model, even if it may be anachronistic for that particular squadron. Theres no sense in whining every time they show off a new model. it almost sounds like you'd be happier if they'd just left out the skin all together? Left it up to the community to make 332nd skins where it would certainly never receive a custom pilot?

[Q_Walker]

I'm all for the history of pilots on both sides, but to act as if they are purposefully "ignoring" the history is ridiculous. They have the skin in the game, for the majority that seems to be ok with them. You can take offense to them leaving out a black pilot, but they certainly aren't doing it to spite you.

[-332FG-Buddy]

1 hour ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Its a lot less work to make a skin than it is to make a whole new pilot model bud. I think its pretty cool and a good homage that they chose to include the skin in the first place, they didn't have to. 

 

They do however need to add a bomber pilot model for the bombers, and eventually (hopefully) they'll add an Italian pilot for the Mc.202 and any future Italian planes, just like I'd hope they add a Japanese Pilot model and a US Navy Aviator if they ever do the pacific theater. These would all be higher priority than adding a new model for the P-51 (and other planes the 332nd flew) which already has a usable pilot model, even if it may be anachronistic for that particular squadron. Theres no sense in whining every time they show off a new model. it almost sounds like you'd be happier if they'd just left out the skin all together? Left it up to the community to make 332nd skins where it would certainly never receive a custom pilot?

again you can call it whinning all day, i call it misrepresentation.  its not a priority to you because maybe that its black pilots.... i dont know, speculating. maybe if it was part of your histroy you would be all up in arms, maybe not,,, dont care, but deflecting and defending the fact that time went in to a half ass representation of  black pilots during ww2 doesnt sit well with me and im gonna say that as politely as a i can.  i would of rather them not even make the skin if they were not gonna do proper homeage.  

 

1 hour ago, Q_Walker said:

I'm all for the history of pilots on both sides, but to act as if they are purposefully "ignoring" the history is ridiculous. They have the skin in the game, for the majority that seems to be ok with them. You can take offense to them leaving out a black pilot, but they certainly aren't doing it to spite you.

well you are speaking for them.  never did i say it was done on purpose but if i see something that doesnt look right like you make the skin but not the pilot and then when its mentioned im told its not a priority to fully represent my culture ill take offense.  heres the facts one more time.... they make a skin for a racially segregated flight group in a theater they didnt even fly in, but cant even change the tone of the pilot for said skin.  effectively misrepresenting heros i look up to as a black man.  who are either of you to say i should be ok with that and not make mention that there is still not a pilot to match the skin?????????????  you can deflect and defend all day .. but its misrepresentation im talking about.  

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by -332FG-Buddy

[Eisenfaustus]

We do have Finnish, Romanian and Hungarian skins for Luftwaffe aircraft yet no according pilot models. 
 

We do have a complete Italian aircraft without an Italian pilot. 
 

So whole nations are excluded the same way…

 

And for far longer then we have the P51 in game as well!

 

Time and resources seem to be the decisive factor after all…

 

just like Jason said… Who would have thought!

[-332FG-Buddy]

2 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

We do have Finnish, Romanian and Hungarian skins for Luftwaffe aircraft yet no according pilot models. 
 

We do have a complete Italian aircraft without an Italian pilot. 
 

So whole nations are excluded the same way…

 

And for far longer then we have the P51 in game as well!

 

Time and resources seem to be the decisive factor after all…

 

just like Jason said… Who would have thought!

Really sus how the defense against someone voicing an issue about a problem involving black pilots brings out all of u defending a simple fact that time was put in to making the skin but not the pilot to match it..... I've sat here for over a year since I first mentioned it and watch pilot after pilot after pilot be added Even a female pilot that has different dimensions as a male pilot.  You can sit here and say coding whatever you want to but changing the skin tone of an American pilot because last I checked Tuskegee airmen were the same thing as white pilots should not be that hard for people making this complicated game.  I feel my issue is valid so you guys can keep attacking it all you want.  I paid money for this game just like you and if I feel there's something wrong or misrepresentated,. And it's been over a year since I initially mentioned it I can feel some type of way about it.  

[Q_Walker]

My point isn't to attack your want for a black pilot. My point is that Jason already responded to this and has stated why it isn't in the game. He said this on May 7 according to this thread: 

It is a very clear answer on why they aren't pursuing it at this time. This was my whole point.

[-332FG-Buddy]

5 minutes ago, Q_Walker said:

My point isn't to attack your want for a black pilot. My point is that Jason already responded to this and has stated why it isn't in the game. He said this on May 7 according to this thread: 

It is a very clear answer on why they aren't pursuing it at this time. This was my whole point.

Again.....his answer is clear to you but not me, they take the time to make the skin but not the pilot as they've made different pilot skins even a woman's skin I have been mentioning this for over a year threads do get deleted and locked.. each time it is ignored or I get the answer above that it's not important or on their schedule.  I disagree with that I feel like they should NOT have done the skin in the first place if they weren't going to do it the right way and have the pilot with the skin.  It is a misrepresentation of history..... . My history and I take offense

Edited August 7, 2021 by -332FG-Buddy

[Q_Walker]

Alright, guess you'll have to wait then if the answer isn't clear enough...

[willb0408]

This is just a little thought I had recently and I want to know your opinions on it. 

 

Seeing as the Mustang we've currently got in-game has skins for Tuskeegee Airmen would anyine else like there to be cool be an African American pilot model option for the Mustang to go with the those skins.

 

I think adding a Tuskeegee pilot model would be a touching  nod to history in the similar to the female pilot model for the U2 and Yaks.

 

This is just me spitballing an idea but I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this!

[J2_Oelmann]

99th pursuit squadron was mainly deployed in Africa and Italy, no? So if we get a italian front, sure!

[AEthelraedUnraed]

If we get an Italian front, sure. For now, I rather have an Italian pilot (of which we have a dedicated plane, skins on other planes, and a map) or a Romanian pilot (same thing, map and skins on German planes exist, dedicated Romanian plane in development).

Edited August 9, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[willb0408]

That's fair and I totally agree.

[Eisenfaustus]

Would be cool - but I agree with @AEthelraedUnraedthat An Italian pilot would be more pressing. Followed by Romanian for the upcoming IAR fighter. 

[DBFlyguy]

I want a Tuskegee pilot in this combat sim as much as the next black guy that happens to play this game but right now it just doesn't fit since we don't have a proper theater the 332nd FG or 99th FS participated in. 

 

It would however have been a nice touch and historically accurate to include a black soldier for the barrage balloons we're getting and truck driver (red ball express) for Battle of Normandy: 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by DBFlyguy

[cardboard_killer]

There was also the United Kingdom history, although this story only highlights one fighter pilot, and he from India.

 

The Caribbean, Indian and African RAF pilots of WW2

 

Quote

Unlike the USA at the time who had segregated black units like the famous Tuskegee Airmen, the RAF had fully integrated aircrew in their planes. ‘Everyone was mixed in together, ‘Mark [Johnson, nephew of Jamaican navigator John Jellicoe Blair] remarks. ‘So you would have a New Zealander gunner, a navigator from Jamaica, a bomb-aimer from Newcastle; they all flew in the same aircraft, they all lived in the same quarters, they all fought and served together.’

 

However, for Blair and many others from the Caribbean, King and Country was not their sole motivation for joining the ranks of the RAF. ‘He made one thing clear,’ Mark says of his great-uncle, ‘if Britain lost the war we would return to slavery. While we didn’t like the British Empire, we certainly didn’t want the Nazi Party coming down and running Jamaica for us.'