Original sources, diaries/letters of WW1 pilots

[US41_Low]

Can you gents point me in the right direction, like a book maybe that is a collection of WW1 pilot writings? I don’t want a historian’s filtered opinion in this matter, I’d just prefer to read what the pilots wrote.

 

I did a few quick DuckDuckGo searches but I don’t think I’m using the correct search criteria. Mostly I’m getting summaries of WW1 and other history channel nonsense.

 

I figure you guys have been looking this up since early RoF so probably can point me in the right direction.

 

For example, on a tribute page to Georges Guynemer there’s a May 1917 quote from Ernst Udet saying basically both the machine and the pilot were better than he. Where is this quote from? I’d like to read that directly from Udet.

 

Thanks fellas. 

[No.23_Gaylion]

Start here:

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/books/

[US41_Low]

1 hour ago, US213_Talbot said:

Start here:

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/books/

Ah that’s fantastic, thank you.

 

Edit: There’s quite a lot of books there. So far I’m going to start with 

 

Aviators field book by Oswald boelcke 

 

Flying fury by James mccudden

 

Fighting the flying circus by rickenbacker 

 

aces falling by Peter hart

Edited April 28, 2021 by Relic

[No.23_Gaylion]

Peter Hart is a wonderful historian. His books are mostly nothing but quotes and they are great. He and his friend Gary have an outstanding weekly-ish podcast thats been going for a year now. So far they have covered a few pilot accounts. 

 

"Pete and Gary's Military History Podcast"

 

You can also try the UK Imperial War Museum sound archive where they have tens of thousands of interviews with veterans of the great war recorded in the 1960's. 

 

You can also take a peek into our forums and find some things, although most of the historical stuff is behind closed doors, such as the complete historical archives of the Third Pursuit Group. 

 

If you want some REALLY good USAS accounts, look for "The USAS In WW1" by Maurer. There are four volumes and you can find the set pretty cheap on ABE books.  There are also free pdfs around. Volume four is nothing but lessons learned that officers had to submit at the end of the war. It's full of great tips and glimpses into the way things were done for a myriad of tasks. 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by US213_Talbot

[No.23_Gaylion]

 

Forgot to add link to our page:

 

https://us3pg.enjin.com/forum/m/41275958/viewforum/9332103

 

And nothing beats "Cross and Cockade" or "Over The Front" magazines. 

 

https://www.overthefront.com/

 

https://www.crossandcockade.com/

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by US213_Talbot

[US41_Low]

36 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

Peter Hart is a wonderful historian. His books are mostly nothing but quotes and they are great. He and his friend Gary have an outstanding weekly-ish podcast thats been going for a year now. So far they have covered a few pilot accounts. 

 

"Pete and Gary's Military History Podcast"

 

You can also try the UK Imperial War Museum sound archive where they have tens of thousands of interviews with veterans of the great war recorded in the 1960's. 

 

You can also take a peek into our forums and find some things, although most of the historical stuff is behind closed doors, such as the complete historical archives of the Third Pursuit Group. 

 

If you want some REALLY good USAS accounts, look for "The USAS In WW1" by Maurer. There are four volumes and you can find the set pretty cheap on ABE books.  There are also free pdfs around. Volume four is nothing but lessons learned that officers had to submit at the end of the war. It's full of great tips and glimpses into the way things were done for a myriad of tasks. 

 

Thanks for the insight. To give an idea of what I’m digging for, I recall the old Red Baron 2 instruction manual had a story about a chance dog fight between I believe Georges guynemer and Ernst Udet that described  the two doing head on passes exchanging gun fire, going into an Immelmann (return on target) maneuver and then having another head on pass. Maybe spad vii vs albatross dva? Not sure. But I wonder where that account originated from. And that’s two of some of the highest tier fighter pilots of WW1 doing nothing more than return on target maneuvers and spraying machine gun fire in each other’s faces .

 

I think there’s a lot more of the realities of combat that play on the dogfight than the numbers often quoted by simmers 

[US41_Low]

3 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

 

Forgot to add link to our page:

 

https://us3pg.enjin.com/forum/m/41275958/viewforum/9332103

 

And nothing beats "Cross and Cockade" or "Over The Front" magazines. 

 

https://www.overthefront.com/

 

https://www.crossandcockade.com/

 

Thanks I registered at that forum. Poking around

[No.23_Triggers]

3 hours ago, Relic said:

Thanks for the insight. To give an idea of what I’m digging for, I recall the old Red Baron 2 instruction manual had a story about a chance dog fight between I believe Georges guynemer and Ernst Udet that described  the two doing head on passes exchanging gun fire, going into an Immelmann (return on target) maneuver and then having another head on pass. Maybe spad vii vs albatross dva? Not sure. But I wonder where that account originated from. And that’s two of some of the highest tier fighter pilots of WW1 doing nothing more than return on target maneuvers and spraying machine gun fire in each other’s faces .

 

I think there’s a lot more of the realities of combat that play on the dogfight than the numbers often quoted by simmers 

Ernst Udet mentions his duel with Guynemer in his memoir, "Ace of the Black Cross". The really interesting part of the story is when Udet's MGs both seize, and he swears that Guynemer, realising this, waves at him and flies away! 

[US41_Low]

5 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Ernst Udet mentions his duel with Guynemer in his memoir, "Ace of the Black Cross". The really interesting part of the story is when Udet's MGs both seize, and he swears that Guynemer, realising this, waves at him and flies away! 

Yeah that part I remember as well, must have been included in the telling of it in that game manual (what a cool game manual btw to have historical accounts like that).

[Rail]

I definitely recommend 'Sagittarius Rising' by Cecil Lewis. He flew various types including the Parasol and Se5a (56 Sqn). He gives a vivid description of flying a 2-seater recce over the Somme battlefield during the prelim bombardment and first assault. He also spent time as a test pilot flying comparisons with captured EA. It is interesting (but not surprising for obvious reasons) to note that max air-speeds were simply represented by pilot assessments; no aircraft was ever tested to destruction. A very good read!

[RNAS10_Oliver]

On 4/28/2021 at 2:17 PM, Relic said:

Can you gents point me in the right direction, like a book maybe that is a collection of WW1 pilot writings? I don’t want a historian’s filtered opinion in this matter, I’d just prefer to read what the pilots wrote.

 

I did a few quick DuckDuckGo searches but I don’t think I’m using the correct search criteria. Mostly I’m getting summaries of WW1 and other history channel nonsense.

 

I figure you guys have been looking this up since early RoF so probably can point me in the right direction.

 

For example, on a tribute page to Georges Guynemer there’s a May 1917 quote from Ernst Udet saying basically both the machine and the pilot were better than he. Where is this quote from? I’d like to read that directly from Udet.

 

Thanks fellas. 

 

There is of course also combat reports as a source of unfiltered by historian writings from pilots. There are some available to preview and/or download (purchase) online at the National Archives. During lockdown here in the United Kingdom they were providing the downloads for free (limited downloads per month) and I managed to obtain (along with some Fleet Air Arm things) all the reports they had for 10 Squadron RNAS. They might not be quite as descriptive as your wanting though.

 

 

 

Quote

combat reports for First World War in AIR 1 – search with the number of the squadron and the keywords ‘combat report’

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Oliver88

[US41_Low]

That is fantastic and is really what I was looking for. Not their pilot history or their favorite color, but their technical information on what they did. Even if not every aspect is perfectly descriptive. Thanks!

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

That is fantastic and is really what I was looking for. Not their pilot history or their favorite color, but their technical information on what they did. Even if not every aspect is perfectly descriptive. Thanks!

 

Similar to what @Oliver88 wrote, there is a massive collection of American squadron records and pilot accounts collected in what's known as Gorrell's History of the Air Service American Expeditionary Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_S._Gorrell#"Gorrell's_History"

 

These documents can be found and downloaded on Fold3.com with a free 7-day trial. I'm also in the process of downloading the more significant unit histories (which, like I said, has a lot of pilot combat reports in it), and I plan to upload them once I've compiled everything to my satisfaction.

[DD_FT-]

https://www.historynet.com/aviation-history-book-review-winged-victory.htm

 

[US41_Low]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Similar to what @Oliver88 wrote, there is a massive collection of American squadron records and pilot accounts collected in what's known as Gorrell's History of the Air Service American Expeditionary Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_S._Gorrell#"Gorrell's_History"

 

These documents can be found and downloaded on Fold3.com with a free 7-day trial. I'm also in the process of downloading the more significant unit histories (which, like I said, has a lot of pilot combat reports in it), and I plan to upload them once I've compiled everything to my satisfaction.

Alright this is what I want as well. If I start this trial, what should I be entering for the search criteria? I'd like to find out 103rd aero reports.

 

Edit: I've emailed the national archives inquiring about gorrell's history. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Relic

[No.23_Gaylion]

Bruh, check the library section of our forums. I've scanned in most of the files for our squadrons and posted there. 

8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Similar to what @Oliver88 wrote, there is a massive collection of American squadron records and pilot accounts collected in what's known as Gorrell's History of the Air Service American Expeditionary Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_S._Gorrell#"Gorrell's_History"

 

These documents can be found and downloaded on Fold3.com with a free 7-day trial. I'm also in the process of downloading the more significant unit histories (which, like I said, has a lot of pilot combat reports in it), and I plan to upload them once I've compiled everything to my satisfaction.

 

 

I've got a fold three account and have downloaded a crap ton of stuff from here.

[Garven]

This book has some combat reports and letters from pilots one of them being Hamilton Coolidge.