Help with custom skins—using others’ as a baseline

[RelentlessJPMoney]

I am taking my first stab at skinning. I used the tutorial sticky threads to get the fundamentals—downloading Gimp and putting the dds plugin in the appropriate folder. What I was hoping to do was start with an existing custom skin created by another user, and then modify it to represent the wingman’s plane. The basics of the plane colors and design are the same, I just need to change the nose art, essentially. But when I try to use Gimp to open the dds file it I get an error. I am told ddsd_pitch is not set and also unexpected EOF. 

I’ve tried opening other custom skin .dds files, and while I can open them, there’s a gray and transparent checkerboard pattern over the plane and I have no layers...only “main surface” and the mipmaps. So even the .dds files I CAN open don’t seem to be modifiable. 

 

I’m using gimp 2.10.24, and I downloaded the win64 dds plugin version 3.0.1.

 

Any tips? I literally am brand new to this, today being my first time installing gimp. 

[Hanu]

I'm not sure about the error message, I have same versions in use and no problems there. But one simplified workflow goes like this:

 

1) Don't import mipmaps, you don't need those while skinning. You create them when you export the skin.

2) importing pre-made skin does gives you only 1 layer. When you see it as checkerboard, it means there is transparency in the skin. That is quite normal, actually essential in the end.

3) To get the skin ready for editing, you have to duplicate the layer several times, duplicate until it does not look like transparent any more and then merge the layers. Now you have a pre-made skin you can paint over.

4) I'd suggest you open the original template now (All the ICDP templates are great and Gimp can open psd files) and paste the layer into the template as one of the layers. Select a layer (beforehand) that fills the canvas completely before pasting to get it into correct position. Drag your layer somewhere around "Paint here" position in the layer tree. Hide the excessive layers that give you too much weathering.

5) paint the nose-art on the new layer above the base skin you imported.

6) When ready "Merge Visible layers (Discard invisible layers)". Add layer mask -> Channel -> Alpha Channel (ICDP's templates normally have one.) When you progress, I's suggest to darken that alpha channel somewhat... IMO the defaults provide too glossy skins.

7) Now you have one layer with semi-transparent image in it. Now export it as dds. Use Compression "BC3/DXT5", Mipmaps "Generate mipmaps" and leave others to default.

 

There a lot better guides in the skin forum, but I thought to list the essentials as a workflow to get you going.

 

Gimp is a great tool, but if you have never used it before, I'm afraid there is a steep learning curve ahead. But it is the same with other tools also. I learned to use it couple of years ago and have not seen any reason yet to switch to Photoshop for example.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Hanu
some typos

[RelentlessJPMoney]

4 hours ago, Hanu said:

I'm not sure about the error message, I have same versions in use and no problems there. But one simplified workflow goes like this:

 

1) Don't import mipmaps, you don't need those while skinning. You create them when you export the skin.

2) importing pre-made skin does gives you only 1 layer. When you see it as checkerboard, it means there is transparency in the skin. That is quite normal, actually essential in the end.

3) To get the skin ready for editing, you have to duplicate the layer several times, duplicate until it does not look like transparent any more and then merge the layers. Now you have a pre-made skin you can paint over.

4) I'd suggest you open the original template now (All the ICDP templates are great and Gimp can open psd files) and paste the layer into the template as one of the layers. Select a layer (beforehand) that fills the canvas completely before pasting to get it into correct position. Drag your layer somewhere around "Paint here" position in the layer tree. Hide the excessive layers that give you too much weathering.

5) paint the nose-art on the new layer above the base skin you imported.

6) When ready "Merge Visible layers (Discard invisible layers)". Add layer mask -> Channel -> Alpha Channel (ICDP's templates normally have one.) When you progress, I's suggest to darken that alpha channel somewhat... IMO the defaults provide too glossy skins.

7) Now you have one layer with semi-transparent image in it. Now export it as dds. Use Compression "BC3/DXT5", Mipmaps "Generate mipmaps" and leave others to default.

 

There a lot better guides in the skin forum, but I thought to list the essentials as a workflow to get you going.

 

Gimp is a great tool, but if you have never used it before, I'm afraid there is a steep learning curve ahead. But it is the same with other tools also. I learned to use it couple of years ago and have not seen any reason yet to switch to Photoshop for example.

@Hanu thanks so much for the detailed step by step. I will give this a try. The only thing I’m not clear on is step 4. Are the PSD files the ones made available by the developers so that users can make custom skins? I’ve seen that post and downloaded some of those. But if that’s what I need to do, I’m not seeing why that’s necessary as part of the step by step. Can you elaborate on that point?

 

Thanks again for this! 
 

Edit: So I get now what you mean on step 4. Move the existing skin as a layer into the psd template. I still need to experiment though to figure out how I can do things like change the numbers on the fuselage and such. I’m not sure how to do that. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney

[Hanu]

6 hours ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

Edit: So I get now what you mean on step 4. Move the existing skin as a layer into the psd template. I still need to experiment though to figure out how I can do things like change the numbers on the fuselage and such. I’m not sure how to do that. 

 

Yes, there are several things you gain by using the template also. You get the alpha channel with it (you could also use quite dark plain grey layer as a channel, if you have no ready alpha channel), the weathering on top of your own painted layer is quite essential; otherwise your own painting will look weird as it would stand out from the rest of the skin too clearly. Many times there are letters and numbers already in the template with correct colors.

Those guys that make these templates are real pro's. All the study they have done about color hues and saturation alone will help you immensely. They can make an artist out even from a bloke like me. ?

[RelentlessJPMoney]

16 minutes ago, Hanu said:

 

Yes, there are several things you gain by using the template also. You get the alpha channel with it (you could also use quite dark plain grey layer as a channel, if you have no ready alpha channel), the weathering on top of your own painted layer is quite essential; otherwise your own painting will look weird as it would stand out from the rest of the skin too clearly. Many times there are letters and numbers already in the template with correct colors.

Those guys that make these templates are real pro's. All the study they have done about color hues and saturation alone will help you immensely. They can make an artist out even from a bloke like me. ?

 

I can't thank you enough for your advice.  I have been able to get a skin into "production" today...the problem I'm having is that the aircraft paint is barely visible except for on the top of the aircraft.  I think it has something to do with the alpha layer.  How do I "darken the alpha channel?"  I am struggling with that part. 

[Hanu]

7 minutes ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

 

I can't thank you enough for your advice.  I have been able to get a skin into "production" today...the problem I'm having is that the aircraft paint is barely visible except for on the top of the aircraft.  I think it has something to do with the alpha layer.  How do I "darken the alpha channel?"  I am struggling with that part. 

 

You have to drag it out from "Channels" tab to "Layers" tab (essentially make a copy of it). Modify it there (for example adjusting it via "Levels") and the drag it back to "Channels" tab. At least that is one way to do it.

Be careful not to adjust it too dark; that will result the skin having completely transparent parts when they are almost black.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Hanu

[RelentlessJPMoney]

9 minutes ago, Hanu said:

 

You have to drag it out from "Channels" tab to "Layers" tab (essentially make a copy of it). Modify it there and the drag it back to "Channels" tab. At least that is one way to do it.

Once it's in Layers, how do I go about darkening it?  

[Hanu]

3 minutes ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

Once it's in Layers, how do I go about darkening it?  

 

Modify it there (for example adjusting it via "Levels").

More detailed: Colors -> Levels -> Output Levels. Change 255 -> 200 for example. Perhaps change the 0 -> 10 to avoid the unintentional transparency.

[Ram399]

You sound to be off to a good start.
Skinning is something you can only really get good at with practice, it may seem overcomplicated at first but with a bit of dedication you can learn it like anything else.

The forum is a great place to ask for help, but there's also a dedicated skinning Discord group which has an active help channel for getting people started.
Might be worthwhile to check out if you want to keep at it.
https://discord.gg/4sN94dWP
 

[RelentlessJPMoney]

10 hours ago, Hanu said:

 

Modify it there (for example adjusting it via "Levels").

More detailed: Colors -> Levels -> Output Levels. Change 255 -> 200 for example. Perhaps change the 0 -> 10 to avoid the unintentional transparency.

 

8 hours ago, Ram399 said:

You sound to be off to a good start.
Skinning is something you can only really get good at with practice, it may seem overcomplicated at first but with a bit of dedication you can learn it like anything else.

The forum is a great place to ask for help, but there's also a dedicated skinning Discord group which has an active help channel for getting people started.
Might be worthwhile to check out if you want to keep at it.
https://discord.gg/4sN94dWP
 

EDIT: NM I found the way to invert when applying the alpha layer! Now it’s just a matter of making some tweaks to the alpha layer input and output and I think I got it. Tremendously grateful for all the help here. 

——-
Greatly appreciate the advice and the link to the discord group. I’m soooo close on this. Hoping for maybe one or two more pieces of advice and I think I have my first skin complete. 
 

I have the skin nearly perfect, it’s just that after adding and manipulating the alpha layer, the parts of the plane that should be flat (like the flat stripe across the dorsal fuselage) are showing up glossy. 
 

After completing painting, I merged visible layers, then flattened image. Then added the alpha layer. Following your advice @Hanu I was then able to modify the alpha layer colors as you mentioned above in order to darken the layer and actually see my paint in a more flat scheme than translucent. But doing that leaves the parts of the plane that are supposed to be completely flat glossy/semi-transparent. It’s almost like I need to find a setting that inverts how Gimp is applying the gloss in the alpha layer, so that the fuselage remains more glossy and the flat paint remains flat. 
 

Is this making sense? Is there a setting I’m missing?

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney

[Hanu]

2 hours ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

EDIT: NM I found the way to invert when applying the alpha layer! Now it’s just a matter of making some tweaks to the alpha layer input and output and I think I got it. Tremendously grateful for all the help here. 

 

Well done sir! You are catching this really quickly. The alpha layer is the most difficult one and also most rewarding, but usually you have fight and tune it yourself to your taste. And you seem to be very resourceful person.

[Megalax]

23 hours ago, Hanu said:

3) To get the skin ready for editing, you have to duplicate the layer several times, duplicate until it does not look like transparent any more and then merge the layers. Now you have a pre-made skin you can paint over.

 

 

There is a much easier way to do get an editable RGB layer, and that is to go to the channels tab and disable the alpha channel. No need to copy it as a 200 layers and merge.

 

More tips:

To extract an alpha channel you can go to colors - components - decompose. Once the pop up box appears, in color model select Alpha. Make sure it is set to decompose to layers, click Ok.

With Gimp you don't have to flatten, you can copy visible and paste as new using shift+ctrl+C/V. I never recommend flattening because you can inadvertently save your multi-layered template with hours of work into a non recoverable single layer.

I'd suggest getting used to working in layers, then learning the tools and layer options as to what they do. Just muck around in a template. There are tons of Gimp tutorials on YT, I can recommend Logos by Nick who will teach you basic tool use.

[RelentlessJPMoney]

2 hours ago, Megalax said:

 

There is a much easier way to do get an editable RGB layer, and that is to go to the channels tab and disable the alpha channel. No need to copy it as a 200 layers and merge.

 

More tips:

To extract an alpha channel you can go to colors - components - decompose. Once the pop up box appears, in color model select Alpha. Make sure it is set to decompose to layers, click Ok.

With Gimp you don't have to flatten, you can copy visible and paste as new using shift+ctrl+C/V. I never recommend flattening because you can inadvertently save your multi-layered template with hours of work into a non recoverable single layer.

I'd suggest getting used to working in layers, then learning the tools and layer options as to what they do. Just muck around in a template. There are tons of Gimp tutorials on YT, I can recommend Logos by Nick who will teach you basic tool use.

Awesome stuff, thank you for these tips. By not flattening and combining into a single layer, is it therefore possible to position the alpha layer within the layer hierarchy, so that it’s gloss affects only are applied to certain layers but leave others unaffected? One thing I’m not thrilled about in my final product is how the gloss of the alpha layer adds some transparency to the plane’s letter and number markings, as well as paint such as the invasion stripes. But if I darken the alpha layer so that all the paint and numerals look great, then I don’t get any gloss on the metallic hull at all, which is kind of a bummer. Trying to figure out how to apply the alpha layer gloss just to the exposed metallic layers but keep the paint and markings relatively flat. 

[E69_julian57]

Hello @RelentlessJPMoney
The numbers and identification marks or parts that you don't want to be shiny or camos, in the alpha layer turn up the grey to darker, without going to pure black, because they will become transparent hollows.
90% grey or a little less, depending on the template, play with the greys.
I hope I have clarified something for you.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by E69_julian57

[RelentlessJPMoney]

35 minutes ago, E69_julian57 said:

Hello @RelentlessJPMoney
The numbers and identification marks or parts that you don't want to be shiny or camos, in the alpha layer turn up the grey to darker, without going to pure black, because they will become transparent hollows.
90% grey or a little less, depending on the template, play with the greys.
I hope I have clarified something for you.

 

Helpful yes! Although I don’t know how to manipulate those things “in the alpha layer.” It seems that I can only control how the alpha layer applies to the entire image, and not just specific parts of the image like certain layers. I am doing some research online to see what I can find. 
 

EDIT: I think I found the answer. I haven’t been editing the alpha layer at all. I think what you all are saying is that I need to open the alpha layer and “paint” sections that correspond to the numerals and other paints that I want to be matte. Painting these sections darker in the alpha layer itself will apply the flatness where it needs to go, and lighter grays will apply the gloss. Looks like I still have some tinkering to do...

Edited April 27, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney

[Megalax]

If you are editing the single layer images I highly suggest you give editing the psd templates a try.

 

The big thing to remember is you want to avoid pure black at all costs, as it will make things transparent on the model. I usually find an unused spot on the image and put in a 100% black square there, so that I can use select by colour (shift+o) and it will select all the pure black areas. Then I can bucket fill those areas with a lighter shade.

2 hours ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

Awesome stuff, thank you for these tips. By not flattening and combining into a single layer, is it therefore possible to position the alpha layer within the layer hierarchy, so that it’s gloss affects only are applied to certain layers but leave others unaffected? One thing I’m not thrilled about in my final product is how the gloss of the alpha layer adds some transparency to the plane’s letter and number markings, as well as paint such as the invasion stripes. But if I darken the alpha layer so that all the paint and numerals look great, then I don’t get any gloss on the metallic hull at all, which is kind of a bummer. Trying to figure out how to apply the alpha layer gloss just to the exposed metallic layers but keep the paint and markings relatively flat. 

 

Gimp doesnt work with alphas as "layers". It works with them as masks.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Megalax

[RelentlessJPMoney]

1 hour ago, Megalax said:

If you are editing the single layer images I highly suggest you give editing the psd templates a try.

 

The big thing to remember is you want to avoid pure black at all costs, as it will make things transparent on the model. I usually find an unused spot on the image and put in a 100% black square there, so that I can use select by colour (shift+o) and it will select all the pure black areas. Then I can bucket fill those areas with a lighter shade.

 

Gimp doesnt work with alphas as "layers". It works with them as masks.

 

Thanks Megalax. I am editing the PSD file. What I did was use an existing skin (dds) file as a starting point then used design elements from it and dropped those over in the PSD file. Now I’m opening the separate alpha file and adding the dark grays where I want the model to be flat. What I’m stuck on is how to them merge the modified alpha into the main file after I’ve made the modifications. The instructions I’ve found on YouTube by SOLIDKREATE aren’t working for me. 
 

Whenever I try to paste the modified Alpha into the “channels” tab, it’s pasting it as a new layer in the “layers” tab. So even though I have a modified alpha template, it seems I can’t actually insert it into the alpha 1 channel through copy and paste...

Edited April 28, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney

[E69_julian57]

Hello @RelentlessJPMoney

The alpha layer you created has to be set to channels.
The alpha layer that comes with the template you delete it and create a new one.
Your created alpha layer you copy and paste it into the new layer in channels.

Edited April 28, 2021 by E69_julian57

[RelentlessJPMoney]

1 hour ago, E69_julian57 said:

Hello @RelentlessJPMoney

The alpha layer you created has to be set to channels.
The alpha layer that comes with the template you delete it and create a new one.
Your created alpha layer you copy and paste it into the new layer in channels.

That’s what I’ve been attempting to do, but it doesn’t appear to be working.
 

I have my regular file open (the psd I downloaded from Jason’s post that has my paint modifications) and then also have the alpha file from his post. So I have them open side by side. I painted the alpha file with shades of gray where I want to control the matte vs. gloss finish. After getting the gray paint all situated, I’m copying the whole image. Then, I’m going back to the main file and deleting the “alpha 1” channel in the channels tab. Then I’m creating a NEW Alpha 1 channel. I’m attempting to paste what I copied from the alpha file into this new channel. But every time I do that it looks like it actually pastes what I copied in the “layers” tab. If I click over to the layers tab, I have a “floating layer” note in the list of layers and I either need to add what I pasted as a new layer or delete it. It doesn’t appear I can paste anything into the channels tab. 
 

What I expected to see when I create a new Alpha 1 channel based on the various tutorials is a black screen, and then when I paste the copied alpha into it it would overwrite that black screen. But I never get a black screen when doing this procedure. 
 

What am I messing up? 

[E69_julian57]

5 hours ago, RelentlessJPMoney said:

What I expected to see when I create a new Alpha 1 channel based on the various tutorials is a black screen, and then when I paste the copied alpha into it it would overwrite that black screen. But I never get a black screen when doing this procedure. 
 

What am I messing up

When you remove the alpha layer 1 from the template, and create another channel
That created channel is black, that channel is where you paste your created alpha layer.

Edited April 28, 2021 by E69_julian57

[RelentlessJPMoney]

50 minutes ago, E69_julian57 said:

When you remove the alpha layer 1 from the template, and create another channel
That created channel is black, that channel is where you paste your created alpha layer.

That’s what I’m saying though. It’s not black. When I create a new channel, my image just  darkens, but it doesn’t go black. And the alpha 1 thumbnail in the channels tab is a gray square. Not black. Furthermore, when I try to paste into the channel in the way I’m trying, it doesn’t seem to paste in the channel—it pastes as a new layer in the layers tab. It’s as if I can’t manipulate anything in the channels tab other than to delete and add new channels. But once added I can’t paste anything into it. It must be a setting or paste function type I’m missing. 

[Megalax]

When you create the alpha channel in the alpha psd template do this:

 

Have your skin ready as a single layer.

Right click the layer and select add layer mask.

Highlight the mask (make sure the mask has a white box around it)

Then paste your alpha image into that mask.

Save to dds.

Gimp will apply the mask as an alpha channel.

 

This is what I mean about Gimp working alpha channels as masks.

[RelentlessJPMoney]

5 hours ago, Megalax said:

When you create the alpha channel in the alpha psd template do this:

 

Have your skin ready as a single layer.

Right click the layer and select add layer mask.

Highlight the mask (make sure the mask has a white box around it)

Then paste your alpha image into that mask.

Save to dds.

Gimp will apply the mask as an alpha channel.

 

This is what I mean about Gimp working alpha channels as masks.

I’ll give it a try when I can get to my computer. Does the order of operations here matter? What I’ve been doing is trying to copy the alpha image to the channels BEFORE I make the skin into a single layer and BEFORE I add layer mask. I’m suspecting that that’s why I couldn’t paste into the alpha 1 channel...I was needing to add the layer mask first. 
 

kind of seeming obvious now...I hope this does the trick.

 

Edit: No dice. I’ve combined the skin into a single layer. I apply the alpha as a mask. Then I copy my alpha image. Then I attempt to paste that image into the alpha 1 channel. It simply doesn’t work. The paste function literally pasted ANOTHER LAYER on top of my skin. I still appear not to be able to affect the alpha in any way. 
 

here’s a question...would having any color in the alpha image prevent me from pasting into the alpha channel? I know it only reads black and white, and I have a few colored pixels in there left over from some of my painting of the alpha. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney

[RelentlessJPMoney]

Sorry for the double post, but in case anyone saw the last response and gave up, lol....

 

FINALLY got it!  The trick was, I had to copy the alpha image from the separate alpha file, then paste that as a layer into my main file.  Then I needed to DRAG AND DROP that layer into the channels tab (that mechanic was totally lost on me).  Then I could delete the alpha layer in the channels tab, flatten, apply the mask, select the new/modified alpha layer, and now we were getting somewhere.  Discovered too that my earlier setting to "Invert" when applying the alpha layer was also now causing problems, and so unticking that sealed the deal.  My Saucy Susie P-47 from the 513th FS is ready to dive on some FW-190s.  

 

Not the best skinning job, but I'm pleased with how it turned out considering how much I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out Gimp, lol.  

 

Thank you everyone in this thread for the super helpful tips in getting started with skinning.  I wouldn't have been able to put this together without your patience and input!

 

P.S., anyone know where the propeller hub (the silver tip) is located in the PSD files?  Saucy Susie technically has spiral red lines around the propeller hub, though trying to figure out how to apply spirals sounds pretty intimidating.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by RelentlessJPMoney