A Skinner's Plea...

[Raptorattacker]

Hi

Is there any chance that planes can be updated to employ the 'reflectivity' that is on a couple already and that looks amazing on such machines as the P-51 and the P-47D28?

At the moment most of the others end up looking 'milky' at best when trying to do any bare aluminium parts.

Personally I'm a massive fan of 'paint-chipping' when I create skins (as this was a massive factor an most) so it's not just the unpainted planes that concern me.

I've spoken with a lot of skinners and pretty much all of them agree that this (may I call it) shortfall often lets down their work.

Thankyou very much in advance for considering me/us in this matter and I look forward to your reply.

Cheers

Rap

ps I attach a couple of picture of recent skins to illustrate what I mean although I guess you are probably aware of it.

Here's a Spit and a Mustang and you can clearly see the difference...

 

[-332FG-Stravinsky]

I agree 100%

[co199]

Signed, this is driving me crazy trying to get a good reflective aluminum look on the A-20 like the Mustang / Thunderbolt / Lightning have.

[JG1_Vonrd]

Thumbs up on this request! The planes that don't have the native shiny aluminum incorporated look like aluminum paint with a gloss clearcoat on them... nothing like polished metal.

As Rap alludes to, having a metal appearing underlayment when applying paint chipping really adds authenticity. (It still looks good as is though, see the wing root fairing in the pic).

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I mostly fly FC, and make my personal skins for it as well. Some of them have metal cowlings, and while they don't look bad, they could be much better if the metallic shine was improved.

[ODonovan]

1 hour ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

Thumbs up on this request! The planes that don't have the native shiny aluminum incorporated look like aluminum paint with a gloss clearcoat on them... nothing like polished metal.

 

You do have to take into account they did everything possible to NOT have polished metal on their planes during most of the war.  Any shiny metal could reflect the sun and cause a plane to be more visible to the enemy.  At the end of the war, on the Western Front, when the Luftwaffe was pretty much beaten, it became common to polish and wax the planes to get a few extra MPH and a few more miles of range.  But, by then, they actually WERE trying to attract the German pilots to come fight them.

 

The reason so many modern restorations have shiny metal (mirror) finishes is because it helps prevent corrosion/preserve the metal and that will make the 75-80 year old planes last longer.  That wasn't a consideration back in the day, however.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

[Dutch2]

 

The whole problem is not the shine but it’s lack of an realistic metal look. The fuzzy pink as an sample you see an most of the BoX unpainted metal skins do not belong on a surface that’s supposed to be bare metal. Only the best skinners can make real metal, btw even the ones you will find in the stock BoX do have that non realistic metal if not being painted or because of wear. 

My suggestion to @gascan is to try skins from the different skinners and you find the skinner who makes the skin of your taste .  

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Dutch2
wrong Quote.

[arvigna]

Bonjour,

I think there is a possibility to have a lot of brightness but working on the NMap file.

Which implies that all the skins of the same plane would be affected.
(if I understand the subject correctly)

But I think it looks better when the wear comes to the aluminium, mixed with other aspects.
Here I had tried shiny aluminium.

Edited April 26, 2021 by arvigna

[Raptorattacker]

7 hours ago, ODonovan said:

You do have to take into account they did everything possible to NOT have polished metal on their planes during most of the war. 

That's very true BUT if that's the case then if the metallic effect were applied to all of the planes then it would give the skinner the OPTION to be realistic in a wartime context or otherwise, wouldn't it? If the effect isn't there then there is NO option and that is what I'm talking about. It's a request, not a debate on the facts. If a plane rolls off the production line then it is, naturally, polished aluminium, then primed, then painted. If the same plane, two months down the line, has various chips on it's paintwork (as they did) then they too are a mixture between fresh aluminium and oxidised aluminium.

As a skinner I would like the option to be able to illustrate both, or none, or all. Simple.

[LR.Jpatty]

agree 100% I don't know the technical aspects but this would be a welcome addition! 

[co199]

I think you can also see this with the P-47D-22 and D-28 - the reflectivity on the bare metal D-28 is much more in line with polished aluminum than the bare metal on the D-22. I think it might have something to do with the base default skin for the D-22 being camo and the default skin for the D-28 being bare metal, but that's an assumption on my part.

[Raptorattacker]

@LR.Jpatty

I would've 'liked' but I've run out of them for today!!

Cheers

Rap

[Raptorattacker]

12 hours ago, arvigna said:

Which implies that all the skins of the same plane would be affected.
(if I understand the subject correctly)

Which is exactly why I proposed this method and then we could all make it shinier/duller etc to our own tastes. It's not complicated, it's just enabled or not and then the actual Skinner can decide. People could then make up their OWN minds about wether to download your skins or not and wether they look realistic or not.

Simple, ON or OFF. I personally prefer ON, as do quite a number of others.

Rap

[ODonovan]

 

I understand a lot more about the situation, and the ability to be able to choose the finish now, after messaging back and forth with Rap about it.  There are definite advantages to having the ability to do a full range of finishes on skins.

 

On 4/26/2021 at 5:01 AM, Raptorattacker said:

If a plane rolls off the production line then it is, naturally, polished aluminium, then primed, then painted.

 

Actually, they were most often a "brushed finish," which is a "flat" (dull/matte) finish created with a wire brush.  Later in the war, when planes had the paint removed and were waxed, they gained a few mph in speed, along with range and altitude, due to the reduced drag (as well as getting rid of the weight of the paint).

 

 

-Irish

 

[Raptorattacker]

3 hours ago, ODonovan said:

(dull/matte) finish created with a wire brush

... and before the wire-brushing? Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

[ODonovan]

On 4/30/2021 at 12:25 PM, Raptorattacker said:

... and before the wire-brushing? Which is exactly what I'm talking about.

You mentioned the production line.  I was pointing out the wire brushing was done before they came off the production line.  If they were to be delivered in bare metal (such as P-51Ds), they came off already dulled down.  If they were painted a standard color (such as P-40s/P-47s), they were brushed because aluminum has to be "scuffed" for paint to adhere to it.  That's all I was saying.  Here are some being transported to a dispersal area in the Pacific, on an aircraft carrier.

 

 

 

 

-Irish

 

[Raptorattacker]

@ODonovan

Listen, this topic is, by definition, 'A Skinner's Plea'. It's, by same definition, not intended as a debate historical theory or fact. The reasons for the 'Plea' are laid out in the original post. I wasn't opening up a debate on why's and wherefores. 

I am a Skinner (as you know) and I was asking for something to be available for Skinners and enquiring about the likelihood of it happening.

Simple