Weapons changes and damage standards

[Angry_Kitten]

I waited a few days to get the new update, there are some improvements.  

 

  My planes seem to handle a little better, they dont get jerky when i max out on the stick pull.  Still get "dont pull the stick hard" alerts, but i still have smoooooooth flight at the extremes.

 

First issue is the new visible damage. 

 

     Yes, making a straffing pass on a plane is nice, going back and seeing the big grey splotches is not that great.. sure it beats seeing NO damage unless something big was shot off, but its cartoony looking. 

 

      I put 300 rounds of german 20mm into the tail of a b25d,,, before the update the TAIL would have been blown off, and when i went by the plane i would have SEEN the tail missing. 

 

             Now, i did that several times, i SEE large pieces of plane flying off, but when i get close 50m,  NOTHING has happened to the plane in the sky, its FULLY intact. 

 

109s and 190s do not respond correctly to my throttle, no biggy, however I have suddenly gotten limited response when in P51 and P40, even P47. Wasnt like that before. 

 

Has the 50 cal been updated secretly?   Did a couple of quick flights using p40, p47, and p51 and for some reason it seems more capable then before. Only took 300 rounds into the left wing and engine of a C47 to make the engine burn good. Before i could take 600

 

Exploding planes,,  what has changed with that?  It used to be the plane would explode in a big fireball and black smoke cloud, and i could FLY through the mess and see parts of plane scattering around me. 

 

    Now i see the fireball and big puff of smoke,,,, and the entire plane simply rolls and falls INTACT....   I really liked seeing the shattering plane parts. Gave a distinct enjoyment. 

       That was when fighting fully fueled b25s with NO bombs on board.

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

13 minutes ago, pocketshaver said:

Exploding planes,,  what has changed with that?  It used to be the plane would explode in a big fireball and black smoke cloud, and i could FLY through the mess and see parts of plane scattering around me. 

 

    Now i see the fireball and big puff of smoke,,,, and the entire plane simply rolls and falls INTACT....   I really liked seeing the shattering plane parts. Gave a distinct enjoyment. 

       That was when fighting fully fueled b25s with NO bombs on board.

 

 

From the patch notes

Quote

20. The power of a fuel tank explosion now depends on the actual amount of ignited fuel or fuel vapors in a partially spent fuel tank;

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?do=findComment&comment=1081893

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, pocketshaver said:

First issue is the new visible damage. 

 

only P51 has the DVD. All other planes still use the same damage decal model.

[Denum]

I think HE got tweaked a hair, but it's reasonable. 

 

I'm still nuking people with 20mm, but I'm not find the plane gives up after a single shell anymore 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Denum

[Angry_Kitten]

Before this update, damage wasnt shown like it is now,   

 

    My main target is teh B25 and i have NEVER seen the big grey splotches on it before after shooting it up.   

 

    I have seen lots of splinters like in Rise of Flight when i machine gun a U2lvs or a FC plane. but NEVEr have i seen teh big grey splotches on ANYTHIGN other then my own plane. 

 

I have always started MY plane at 100% fuel and the other plane at 100% fuel. And i was getting massive fireball explosions, i mean I was flying for 2-4 hours a night and i was dropping 20-25 planes in each session with huge fireballs and smoke clouds and debris all over the place. 

   NOW i get the smoke and fire, but NOTHING has happened to the plane, the plane just streams a little fire from an engine and noses over.  

    I have SHOT the entire tail sections, rudders, elevators, aelerons off of planes before,,, had the fire effect from the shells going boom boom on impact, and had huge sections of plane get shot off. BUT last night, first session after the update and I put ALOT more shells into a tail section, and at 300m i can SEE the rudder, elevator, and aelerons get blown off and see the individual rudder go twirling off into the sunset. 

    BUT NOW when i finish my straffing run, the rudder is still attached and has the grey splotches on it. 

[J2_Oelmann]

When the tqnks are full its less likely to have an explosion. You would need a certain mixture of gasoline and air.

[[DBS]Browning]

Every update someone reports placebo update effects that are not there. ?

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, pocketshaver said:

Before this update, damage wasnt shown like it is now,   

 

    My main target is teh B25 and i have NEVER seen the big grey splotches on it before after shooting it up.   

 

    I have seen lots of splinters like in Rise of Flight when i machine gun a U2lvs or a FC plane. but NEVEr have i seen teh big grey splotches on ANYTHIGN other then my own plane. 

 

I have always started MY plane at 100% fuel and the other plane at 100% fuel. And i was getting massive fireball explosions, i mean I was flying for 2-4 hours a night and i was dropping 20-25 planes in each session with huge fireballs and smoke clouds and debris all over the place. 

   NOW i get the smoke and fire, but NOTHING has happened to the plane, the plane just streams a little fire from an engine and noses over.  

    I have SHOT the entire tail sections, rudders, elevators, aelerons off of planes before,,, had the fire effect from the shells going boom boom on impact, and had huge sections of plane get shot off. BUT last night, first session after the update and I put ALOT more shells into a tail section, and at 300m i can SEE the rudder, elevator, and aelerons get blown off and see the individual rudder go twirling off into the sunset. 

    BUT NOW when i finish my straffing run, the rudder is still attached and has the grey splotches on it. 

 

Dude, sorry, but the only planes that have new damage decals are the Nieuport 28 and the P-51. Nothing else has changed. Everything that was changed can be seen right there in the changelog.

[Avimimus]

12 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Dude, sorry, but the only planes that have new damage decals are the Nieuport 28 and the P-51. Nothing else has changed. Everything that was changed can be seen right there in the changelog.

 

Echoing LukeFF... I've noticed no significant changes to damage models (except maybe a couple of surprise fuel tank explosions)... so maybe it isn't a change to the code, but a change to how you are flying? Air combat is complicated and different tactics, firing ranges (etc.) can have wildly different effects.

[Angry_Kitten]

this is what im seeing with the game you guys sold to me. Same updates, things are a tad different. 

 

I DID get back to being able to see the parts missing from the plane, ie i shoot the rudder off the C47, i fly by it and i can SEE the rudder is now missing, etc. 

 

I had to change to different planes being flown by me and my intended victims 2 times before it was back to normal.   Glitch perhaps in a file somewhere. 

 

STILL notice that the game is really insistent on me using the little red circle as my lead indicator. Even when diving from above, i cant hit crap unless i aim at that little circle.

[Avimimus]

What little red circle? What are you talking about?!

[BlitzPig_EL]

He must have aiming assist turned on, but I don't recall it being red.

[Jaegermeister]

17 hours ago, pocketshaver said:

I had to change to different planes being flown by me and my intended victims 2 times before it was back to normal.   Glitch perhaps in a file somewhere. 

 

Make sure you reboot your computer after an update. Errors are possible if you don't.

[Angry_Kitten]

5 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Make sure you reboot your computer after an update. Errors are possible if you don't.

i had turned my pc off between two of the sessions, and nothing happened.

[Jaegermeister]

On 4/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, pocketshaver said:

STILL notice that the game is really insistent on me using the little red circle as my lead indicator. Even when diving from above, i cant hit crap unless i aim at that little circle.

 

Glad you got it sorted out. the game has never asked me to use a little red circle for aiming, or anything else, but I have found that hitting my target is entirely dependent on my own eye hand coordination at that particular moment in time.

 

Some days are better than others. 

[Avimimus]

21 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

He must have aiming assist turned on, but I don't recall it being red.

 

Ah okay, that makes sense!

 

In that case @pocketshaver - I'd suggest turning off aiming assist, turning off the hud - and aiming just using your gun sight in the cockpit. It works really well.

[Angry_Kitten]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

 

Ah okay, that makes sense!

 

In that case @pocketshaver - I'd suggest turning off aiming assist, turning off the hud - and aiming just using your gun sight in the cockpit. It works really well.

 

Well pretend you are 300m from your target bomber, you are doing a suicide ramming attack. You open fire directly into the pilot cabin and NOTHING hits..... until you swing the gunsights RED + to land on the red O moving around in front of the enemy bomber, and then your shells hit perfectly into the plane. 

 

 

[ragvard]

Addressing your issue with grey splodges: Could you screenshot that? Haven't seen such a thing.

 

Planes stay intact: can't confirm. i've shot off wings, tails, got my elevators shot off, tail wheel off, ... i could continue

 

The last issue: What you are describing sounds like deflection shooting. Which is needed to hit a target that is moving at an off vector, even when convergence and range is optimal. Or is it something different you're describing?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Pocketshaver, are you talking about the gyro gunsight?  If so your posts are becoming more clear.  The gyro sight was a later war innovation that computed the lead necessary to hit an "off axis" target.  If it is bouncing around on you while you are flying in a "straight" line, it's because you are NOT flying in a straight line, either because you are over controlling the aircraft, or, most likely, you do not have your aircraft properly trimmed out.

 

Go to your aircraft modifications on the plane selection screen in the Hangar, and deselect the gyro gunsight and see how that goes.

[Luftschiff]

It would help if a screenshot could be provided. So far it sounds like you 1. Have aim assist turned on, and 2. Think that you shouldn't have to lead when firing on a moving target. 

[Avimimus]

14 hours ago, pocketshaver said:

Well pretend you are 300m from your target bomber, you are doing a suicide ramming attack. You open fire directly into the pilot cabin and NOTHING hits..... until you swing the gunsights RED + to land on the red O moving around in front of the enemy bomber, and then your shells hit perfectly into the plane. 

 

Ah! I see.

 

If you aim at the spot the bomber is - it will have moved by the time your bullets reach it. Instead of aiming where the target is - you have to aim at the spot where the target will be by the time your bullets reach it.  "Deflection shooting" In real life pilots had to learn through experience how to do deflection shooting (and watch where their tracer bullets fly/land). That is how I learned to do it - just watching where my bullets fly.

 

The circle is giving you a hint as to where to aim - but it still isn't perfect. So I think it would be useful to watch where your bullets fly and learn how to aim very accurately.

[Angry_Kitten]

9 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

Ah! I see.

 

If you aim at the spot the bomber is - it will have moved by the time your bullets reach it. Instead of aiming where the target is - you have to aim at the spot where the target will be by the time your bullets reach it.  "Deflection shooting" In real life pilots had to learn through experience how to do deflection shooting (and watch where their tracer bullets fly/land). That is how I learned to do it - just watching where my bullets fly.

 

The circle is giving you a hint as to where to aim - but it still isn't perfect. So I think it would be useful to watch where your bullets fly and learn how to aim very accurately.

I understand deflection shooting.  The issue is, i have to put the red + DIRECTLY on the red O.  NO MATTER what im shooting at, meaning if i am shooting at the starboard engine, and the red O is directly in front of the airplanes nose, i have to shoot at the red O or i WONT hit the plane at all.

 

  I had a SLIGHTLY similar issue with the aim assist in Rise of Flight, in that instance the red O would stay on an engine, and no matter what i shot at on the plane, the fired bullets would always land inside the red O

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, pocketshaver said:

I understand deflection shooting.  The issue is, i have to put the red + DIRECTLY on the red O.  NO MATTER what im shooting at, meaning if i am shooting at the starboard engine, and the red O is directly in front of the airplanes nose, i have to shoot at the red O or i WONT hit the plane at all.

Well, you can't change where the red O points to, if that's what you're asking. Other than that, there's nothing checking if you're firing at the red O or not, let alone any such thing introduced in the update, so it must be a placebo effect.

 

Also, wings and engines and the like are much more difficult to hit than the much larger hull. Furthermore, I recommend switching off aiming assist. Apparently the red O focuses on the hull, automatically making it suboptimal for other targets like engines. It may be hard at first, but with a bit of training you'll learn to predict where your bullets go.

[Jaegermeister]

On 4/26/2021 at 3:02 AM, ragvard said:

Addressing your issue with grey splodges: Could you screenshot that? Haven't seen such a thing.

 

This is an Albatros DV yesterday. They used to be holes through the fabric.

 

[unreasonable]

Just now, Jaegermeister said:

 

This is an Albatros DV yesterday. They used to be holes through the fabric.

 

 

A few more hits and there will be holes through the fabric. On that wing you have the minimum damage decal, that is all. (Just tested on static test). These are still generic to the hit box, unlike the P-51 NuDM, where the hit markings are exactly where the bullets strike.

[Luftschiff]

The "Red O" is just a UI element that helps you gauge the lead needed to hit the centre mass of the plane. It's only a graphic effect.

It does not in ANY WAY affect where your bullets go. Whether you miss, or hit, and where those bullets land - that's entirely on you and where you aim. 

 

 

 

[Angry_Kitten]

19 hours ago, Luftschiff said:

The "Red O" is just a UI element that helps you gauge the lead needed to hit the centre mass of the plane. It's only a graphic effect.

It does not in ANY WAY affect where your bullets go. Whether you miss, or hit, and where those bullets land - that's entirely on you and where you aim. 

 

 

 

i spent three hours on this conundrum and had a surprise.... 

 

it DOES have an effect on where things go. 

 

far to many times at say 600m i couldnt do more than toss a huge spray pattern of bullets at a plane, but at same range and conditions with the aim assist on, it would be a super tight little pattern on the target. 

 

But at 200m or less it doesnt have any impact.

[unreasonable]

No-one with much sim experience under their belt uses aim assist, so very few people really care one way or the other what it does or does not do. Flying with assists on is not making you a better sim-pilot, even if you are a complete novice.  Your brain should be trained to experience looking into a 3D world, not be looking at circles on a 2D surface. 

 

Just turn the thing off, and learn to aim like a real pilot. 

 

 

[Dakpilot]

I think your 3 hours would have been better spent watching some of the great IL-2 YouTube tutorials on deflection shooting and convergence settings, followed by some BCM to give better understanding of turning and 'G' 

 

Turn off the auto help it will only hinder you

 

Cheers, Dakpilot