New Oil Tank command in Bf109 E4 & E7?

[Skywarp]

Do someone know what's about this new function?

[Buzzsaw]

22 minutes ago, Skywarp said:

Do someone know what's about this new function?

The 109E's have commands to open and close both their coolant radiator and their oil radiator. (cooler)

 

This has been the case since the game was originally published.

 

The Oil Radiator is default set at 100%/fully open so if you did not have a key programmed, then it would always be open.

 

There is a drag factor associated with both the coolant radiator and the oil radiator... the wider open, the more drag.

 

Drag affects aircraft speed.

 

The 109F's oil radiator is automatic... can't be adjusted.  The 109F's coolant radiator is either auto/manual... player can choose.

 

There are no new commands re. the aircraft oil tank... it can take damage... then you get a message.

 

There is a new command for the 109F's which allow the radiators to be separated... in case one takes damage it can be closed off so the coolant doesn't drain off from both.

[FTC_Karaya]

I think he means the auxiliary internal oil tank on the E-7.

 

The auxiliary oil tank on that model was made necessary as it was the first Bf109 capable of carrying an external drop tank to increase range. However, the DB601 did consume a not so insignificant amount of oil during flight. So in order to ensure that the engine would be sufficiently lubricated during the entire length of the flight when using a drop tank, a small oil tank had to be added. The valve for this was supposed to be opened only after 1.5h of flight and would feed into the main oil tank. Later models starting with the Friedrich simply incorporated a larger main oil tank and got rid of the auxiliary one.

 

In the game this is operated on the E-7 via the "fuel cock #2" command. Unfortunately I do not know if oil consumption of engines is modelled in CloD. Maybe @Buzzsaw can elaborate on this and tell if there is an actual use case for the auxiliary oil tank in CloD?

Edited April 22, 2021 by Karaya

[Skywarp]

Tks Karaya, that was my doubt.

 

I would take a screenshot from the lever to show Buzzsaw later, but you got the point.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Skywarp

[Buzzsaw]

Oil consumption is not modeled... all of these aircraft engines consumed oil... but there is enough oil provided to cover the needs of the engines for the time flying.  So there is no point in modeling consumption of oil.

 

What is modeled is if an oil tank is damaged, then it will leak and once an oil tank is empty then the engine will start to degrade due to lack of oil being replenished from the tank... i.e. eventually there will be no oil left in the engine.

 

The extra tank on the E-7 is just another oil tank... like the original tanks modeled.

 

The amount and weight of oil is modeled... so it adds to an aircraft's weight and the amount in a tank determines how long it takes to drain.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

11 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Oil consumption is not modeled... all of these aircraft engines consumed oil... but there is enough oil provided to cover the needs of the engines for the time flying.  So there is no point in modeling consumption of oil.

 

What is modeled is if an oil tank is damaged, then it will leak and once an oil tank is empty then the engine will start to degrade due to lack of oil being replenished from the tank... i.e. eventually there will be no oil left in the engine.

 

The extra tank on the E-7 is just another oil tank... like the original tanks modeled.

 

The amount and weight of oil is modeled... so it adds to an aircraft's weight and the amount in a tank determines how long it takes to drain.

 

 

Buzzsaw, in a Bf 109 E-7/Z, when operating the GM-1 at high altitude (8000 metres and above)... is it true that it is necessary to open the extra oil tank? And what about the GM-1 in a Bf 109 F-4/Z? Is there any extra oil tank in the F-4s?

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Buzzsaw, in a Bf 109 E-7/Z, when operating the GM-1 at high altitude (8000 metres and above)... is it true that it is necessary to open the extra oil tank? And what about the GM-1 in a Bf 109 F-4/Z? Is there any extra oil tank in the F-4s?

 

 

No, you are opening the GM-1 tank... it is listed as a tank in the controls.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

25 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

No, you are opening the GM-1 tank... it is listed as a tank in the controls.

 

 

Yes, I know, and this is what I do. The fuel cock works fine with the binding "Fuel Cock #1 - Toggle" (with one binding you toggle between two positions: open/closed). The extra oil tank cock works fine too with "Fuel Cock #2 - Toggle" (with one binding you toggle between two positions: open/closed) and the GM-1 tank cock works fine as well with "Fuel Cock #3 - Toggle" (with one binding you toggle between four positions which are "GM-1: No.1", "GM-1: No.2", "GM-1: No.3" & "GM-1: Off"). Out of those four positions, obviously "GM-1: No.1", "GM-1: No.2" & "GM-1: No.3" correspond to the three levels of flow the pilot chooses for the injection of the nitrous oxide, depending on the reached altitude (as of 8000 metres for the first level of flow). I think I got it and I know that this is fantastically modelled in the game because I already tested it at high altitude. I love it, it's really working.

 

Now, going back to my question, that latter dealt with the both oil tank and the use of the GM-1. The question is: has the oil tank nothing to do with the GM-1 or, on the contrary, when we use the GM-1, we need to open the extra oil tank too? (for example because the engine needs to be extra lubricated and extra cooled when the GM-1 is turned on).

 

 

[JAGER_Ortizz]

3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Oil consumption is not modeled... all of these aircraft engines consumed oil... but there is enough oil provided to cover the needs of the engines for the time flying.  So there is no point in modeling consumption of oil.

 

What is modeled is if an oil tank is damaged, then it will leak and once an oil tank is empty then the engine will start to degrade due to lack of oil being replenished from the tank... i.e. eventually there will be no oil left in the engine.

 

The extra tank on the E-7 is just another oil tank... like the original tanks modeled.

 

The amount and weight of oil is modeled... so it adds to an aircraft's weight and the amount in a tank determines how long it takes to drain.

Buzzsaw good night brother ! So... can you say how many gallons are used in this oil tank ? 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

15 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

No, you are opening the GM-1 tank... it is listed as a tank in the controls.

 

 

I'm sorry Buzzsaw. Page 74 in the flashcards gives instructions on the use of the GM-1 mixture injection system... and there's no mention of the use of any extra oil tank cock on it. End of story.

[FTC_Karaya]

The extra oil tank has nothing to do with the GM-1 system. As I said earlier it was introduced as a safety measure for long flights when using a droptank.

[Skywarp]

So... what's the conclusion?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I thank you for your responses, Buzzsaw and Karaya. I have one more question (the last one, I promise): if, for example, in my Bf 109 E an oil hose has been punctured by a bullet... will I resolve the problem if I open the extra oil tank cock? or, on the contrary, the leak will irremediably continue until the whole oil circuit is empty?

 

 

[Tibsun]

8 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I thank you for your responses, Buzzsaw and Karaya. I have one more question (the last one, I promise): if, for example, in my Bf 109 E an oil hose has been punctured by a bullet... will I resolve the problem if I open the extra oil tank cock? or, on the contrary, the leak will irremediably continue until the whole oil circuit is empty?

 

 

I'm interested in this aswell, kind of.

If the reserve tank oil is just flowing into the main punctured tank, then it would leak away aswell.

But

As far as I know, in the game opening the tank doesn't help, as Buzzsaw said it's just treated as another oil tank (as I understand just increases the max oil).
So as it is in the game it would mean that it just takes longer to drain, without any action needed.

However, if the reserve tank is treated as normal oil tank and this one is punctured, it would mean that it still drains the whole oil. It would mean that in the game the possibility of hits to vulnerable oil systems is kinda wrongly increased, depending on the position and size of the reserve oil tank. Same with oil hoses of the reserve tank going to the main tank, those should be treated seperately to not unnecessarily increase the chance of vulnerable oil hits of the Bf 109 E-7 which didn't historically exist.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Tibsun

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, Tibsun said:

So as it is in the game it would mean that it just takes longer to drain, without any action needed.

 

 

Well, there's at least one required action: opening the extra oil tank cock... nope?

 

I look forward to further responses...

 

 

[Tibsun]

4 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Well, there's at least one required action: opening the extra oil tank cock... nope?

 

I look forward to further responses...

 

 

I think you have been told several times that this isn't doing anything, I suggest to read Buzzsaws comments again:

 

On 4/22/2021 at 9:56 PM, Buzzsaw said:

What is modeled is if an oil tank is damaged, then it will leak and once an oil tank is empty then the engine will start to degrade due to lack of oil being replenished from the tank... i.e. eventually there will be no oil left in the engine.

 

The extra tank on the E-7 is just another oil tank... like the original tanks modeled.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Tibsun

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Tibsun, let's quote Buzzsaw : "The amount and weight of oil is modeled... so it adds to an aircraft's weight and the amount in a tank determines how long it takes to drain"

 

Now, Tibsun, please note that it is nowhere specified in the present discussion thread if whether or not it is necessary to open the extra oil tank cock so that this "added weight" (of oil) makes the overall amount of oil drains to the last drop present in the aircraft. Logically, if you don't open your extra oil tank cock, this would keep the reserve oil where it is and the engine breakdwn would happen before. But, again, as I said, I don't see where this is clarified in this thread. Indeed, the requirement to open this extra oil tank cock may not be modelled in the game.

 

 

 

[5th_Hellrider]

In uncertainty keep everything open, said the wise.  Flat out! 

[Buzzsaw]

6 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Tibsun, let's quote Buzzsaw : "The amount and weight of oil is modeled... so it adds to an aircraft's weight and the amount in a tank determines how long it takes to drain"

 

Now, Tibsun, please note that it is nowhere specified in the present discussion thread if whether or not it is necessary to open the extra oil tank cock so that this "added weight" (of oil) makes the overall amount of oil drains to the last drop present in the aircraft. Logically, if you don't open your extra oil tank cock, this would keep the reserve oil where it is and the engine breakdwn would happen before. But, again, as I said, I don't see where this is clarified in this thread. Indeed, the requirement to open this extra oil tank cock may not be modelled in the game.

 

 

 

Oil tanks are open by default... there is no need to open the standard tank or the added new tank.

[FlyinCoffin]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:08 AM, Buzzsaw said:

 

 

The 109F's coolant radiator is either auto/manual... pilot can choose.

 

 

 

There is a new command for the 109F's which allow the radiators to be separated... in case one takes damage it can be closed off so the coolant doesn't drain off from both.

 

 

damn thats clod section not gb section my questions are for il2 gb

Iam not sure iam confused  and Iam somehow lazy to find it out. How is the command named ?

 

 I see a oil cooler controller in the cockpit of bf109f(2) but no water radiator cooler controll thing or so.

 

edit: hey i havent played il2 for months now iam back. My keys for oil/water radiator opening/closing dont work anymore in the bf109 e7

can you tell me why? I have used the key mapping for the bf109 key. but the lever and the  crank doesnt move.

 

damn thats clod section not gb section my questions are for il2 gb

 

can some mod help ?

Edited December 14, 2024 by FlyinCoffin

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

my questions are for il2 gb

 

can some mod help ?

 

 

Well... if "gb" stands for "Great Battles"... why don't you ask at the right place ?

[FlyinCoffin]

cause mod can shove question in right thread?

[Volant_Eagle]

5 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

damn thats clod section not gb section my questions are for il2 gb

Iam not sure iam confused  and Iam somehow lazy to find it out. How is the command named ?

 

 I see a oil cooler controller in the cockpit of bf109f(2) but no water radiator cooler controll thing or so.

 

edit: hey i havent played il2 for months now iam back. My keys for oil/water radiator opening/closing dont work anymore in the bf109 e7

can you tell me why? I have used the key mapping for the bf109 key. but the lever and the  crank doesnt move.

 

damn thats clod section not gb section my questions are for il2 gb

 

can some mod help ?

GB answer:

Have you switched to manual radiator control in the E-7? You need to do that first before the open and close keybinds will do anything.

 

If you're talking about the knob/switch thing down by your right leg in the F-2, that's the water radiator control, not the oil radiator. Oil radiator is only automatic in the F models. For some reason the water radiator controls don't work for me in the F. I am switching to manual mode first in the F, and everything works just fine in the E. Not sure what's up with that.

[FlyinCoffin]

Was today trying out the E7. But something is not right.

 

it just not working in my bf109 e7 in gb. The opening of the crank or closing isnt doable.

On 12/15/2024 at 12:18 AM, Volant_Eagle said:

GB answer:

Have you switched to manual radiator control in the E-7? You need to do that first before the open and close keybinds will do anything.

 

If you're talking about the knob/switch thing down by your right leg in the F-2, that's the water radiator control, not the oil radiator. Oil radiator is only automatic in the F models. For some reason the water radiator controls don't work for me in the F. I am switching to manual mode first in the F, and everything works just fine in the E. Not sure what's up with that.

yes I have I only get the oil radiator to work in the E7

(Notauslösung Kuehlklappe = Emergency Coolvalve(?)) After you use that it seems like the automatic of the cooler gets lost its only full open or full closed

 

In the F2 I get water radiator with 2 options(after you pulled that thing out and now you can turn in it in two directions.After you turned that thing pushes back in the instrument panel) . full open/full close. could be interesting in some situations. but it could help remaininging  automatic until it gets damaged then the machine can overheat.

 

And coulndt operate succesful the oil radiator. The lever just doesnt move. (not the throttle) In F2.

 

Edited December 18, 2024 by FlyinCoffin

[Volant_Eagle]

Unfortunately my game file for GB is corrupted yet again so I am having trouble getting the answer for you. (I hope my whole D drive isn't the problem because this has been happening regularly for multiple games on that drive.)

 

But I got some screen shots from CloD that might clear a few things up.

 

First, that red and yellow lever on the F-2 throttle quadrant is not the same thing as the yellow lever on the E-7 quadrant.

 

The first two images are obviously from an Emil and the last from a Frederick. In the Emils the oil radiator control is on the throttle quadrant and the fuel cock is on the instrument panel. In the Frederick models that got rid of the manual oil radiator control and made it only automatic. They then moved the fuel cock lever from the front panel to the open space on the throttle quadrant. There is no manual oil radiator control anywhere in the cockpit of a Frederick like there is in the Emil. I can see how that could very easily be confused though when you can't click on anything in the cockpit.

 

Now the Frederick water radiator:

16 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

In the F2 I get water radiator with 2 options(after you pulled that thing out and now you can turn in it in two directions.After you turned that thing pushes back in the instrument panel) . full open/full close. could be interesting in some situations. but it could help remaininging  automatic until it gets damaged then the machine can overheat.

The water radiator control doesn't seem to work the same way in CloD and GB. I'm guessing CloD has it right but I haven't verified this in a real manual yet.

 

In CloD there is an arrow on that lever.

Clicking the lever (or using the keybind) flips the arrow between up and down.

When in the up position, the automatic mode is engaged and the open/close radiator commands won't to anything. When pointing down, the radiators are in manual mode and will only open or close when the pilot commands them.

 

When the arrow is down (manual mode), the left and right sides of the lever become clickable to control the radiator.

Clicking that side of the selector (or using the keybind) will rotate the lever so the arrow is pointed to that side as long as the mouse clicked or the keybind is held down. As soon as the mouse click or keybind is released, the lever returns to the down position. As long as the arrow is pointed towards open or close, the radiator is moving towards the open or close position. So the pilot needs to hold the lever in the direction he wants the radiator to go until it reaches the desired position, and then he returns it to the down position to stop it.

 

I don't know if I can answer the E-7 water radiator part of your question until I can get GB working again.

[Volant_Eagle]

17 hours ago, FlyinCoffin said:

Was today trying out the E7. But something is not right.

 

it just not

 

 

I think I may have found the problem. Try using the keybind for "Oil radiators shutters control axis" after switching to manual mode in the E-7, not the keybind for "Bf-109/110 and British aircraft water radiator: open/close". The former is what works for me. Also, be sure you don't also have other commands assigned to whatever you have on that keybind. It might be interfering if you have something else assigned to the same key. You could also try deleting all the extra keybinds you have for "Oil radiators shutters control axis" so you only have one control bind for that axis.

[LukeFF]

Question answered, locking, as this is a necro-ed topic.